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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
268 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2019 : 20:34:51
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Hi,
From your excellent Lord of the End of Everything article, after "the historical period known as Shartra (or darkness in the Imaskari tongue)", imaskari "conquerors recovered the Golden Skins of the World Serpent that Jergal had discarded and over time and with much trial and loss, bent this artifact to their will, forming the fabled Seven Imarskana." This happened in the Late Period of the Imaskar Civilisation.
But from LEoF :
"First Imaskarcana: Crafted by an ancient Lord Artificer in Inupras more than nine thousand years ago..." and "Fifht Imaskarcana: Forged some eight thousand five hundred years ago.. the fifht Imaskarcana contains the entire military history of Imaskar from -7500 DR onward"
And Ed Bonny reply :
The date in the line reading "-3891 Under orders from Emperor Omanond, Imaskari artificers create seven tomes that record the empires immense magical lore for all eternity. These later become known as the Imaskarcana." should actually say -7891 DR.
- Ed
This suggest the first imaskarcana was crafted in -7891 DR and the fifth imaskarcana circa -7500 DR.
So,
-3891 : this is the False Imaskarcana imaskari forged after discovered the Golden Skins of the World Serpent...
or
-7891 : imaskari find the Golden Skins of the World Serpent whithout disturbing Jergal's sleep... nor discovering his presence... Jergal awake in -4370, discover the theft of the Golden Skins of the World Serpent and unleash "a plague on the unsuspecting Imaskari, which lead to the historical period known as Shartra"...
Just some digression... |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
Edited by - Asharak on 02 Feb 2019 20:35:28 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2019 : 01:59:04
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Well firstly, my Jergal work is not official and likely never will be, but you have to understand that there are many Imaskaracana. In fact, I think the term must simply mean "created powerful magic item" in Roushoum.
The -3891 DR date for the creation of the Imaskarcana is repeated in GHotR and so remains canon, whatever Ed Bonny might say. I've got his original chapter turnover for LEoF and that's the date he put in the timeline provided. Of course Travis Stout did the magic items chapter which explains the differing dates, but the errors were not picked up in editing.
So what's the solution? (If one is needed at all) I think it is a simple one. As Imaskarcana have to be items of great power crafted by the Artificers of the Imaskari, it is clear that they can create many - see Dragon #281 for other versions as well as GHotR (p.31) for mention of the False Imaskarcana.
So I see there being many Imaskarcana - with sages, historians and loremasters giving them fanciful groupings like "the First" or "the Seven", In all likelihood there were a boatload of Imaskarcana and from my point of view, some of them may have been transformed Nether Scrolls.
And of course, many moons ago, the esteemed Steven Schend had this to say about the "Seven Imaskarcana":
"The mention of the Imaskarcana on the old WotC FR frontpage is throwaway stuff to add flavor and depth to the setting, as we can't possibly detail everything of importance across all times in the Realms. After all, we can't easily name every piece of regalia for the crown of England across 933 years thanks to Cromwell's melting down of much of it; now why should we be able to identify and catalogue every important item across hundreds of realms, all long since fallen? Anyway, that's the rationale for dropping in legendary items - they are sometimes among the few tidbits we've got on various people and places.
As for who/what the Seven Imaskarcana were/are, here are my theories and obfuscations:
While their contents and forms are much disputed, the Seven Imaskarcana are inarguably seven great stores of knowledge about magic, thus the name.
Some contend that the arcana collectively contain the knowledge of the Imaskari/Raurinese sorcerer-kings (or whatever their title may be, for each sage coins titles anew with each writing).
Many have theorized that the Seven Imaskarcana provide total understanding and much lost lore on each school of magic save Necromancy. While this supposes the existence of an eighth or further Imaskarcana, the few who entered the Plains of Purple Dust to prove this theory have never returned to add to the lore.
Many others have supposed that they each held the history of an age of Raurin, and the end of the Seventh Imaskari Age led to its destruction and the birth of the Old Empires.
Still others suppose that each of the Seven holds innumerable secrets of magic, though they correspond to the humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, dragons, and a seemingly lost race of aquatic creatures.
All of these theories above suggest that the Imaskarcana were massive great-tomes bound in slate covers lined with blue dragon's skin, though the makeup of the pages was said to be vellum, the skin of humans or elves or even tanar'ri, or even crystal that was given the flexibility of paper without the weaknesses. Only a few sages think of these artifacts otherwise, though there are an isolated few from Thay who so dare.
The strangest suggestion, made by one Thamaultadh of Tyraturos, implies that the Seven Imaskarcana are not items or storehouses of lore so much as they are great menhirs of stone embedded with great magics and now lost in the Great Desert of Raurin. His theories, contained only in his notebooks (now safely ensconsed in Candlekeep after 480 years), suggest that the Imaskarcana projected a magical barrier around the Imaskari lands, protecting it from invasion by magical forces. He further supposed this was why the genies of Calim and Memnon settled Calimshan rather than the Inner Sea. The Seven lay in the western sands of the desert and were all that remained of a series of 28 menhirs that bordered the Imaskari's claimed lands.
Thamaultadh's own apprentice and seventh son refuted his father's strange theory with one equally bizarre: The Seven Imaskarcana are neither books nor menhirs, though they could conceivably be both stores of knowledge and magical defenses of the Imaskar lands. Synnaros of the Twelve Tomes proposed that the Seven Imaskarcana were, in fact, seven massive but identical statues placed in various places now buried within the borders of the Raurin Desert. These golem-like statues appeared as sages sitting with an open tome upon their laps. Should folk uncover or find one of the Imaskarcana, they could ask questions of it, and it would provide any knowledge that it held.
Elminster's surprisingly close-mouthed about the truth of the matter, so he either doesn't know the answer or simply enjoys dribbling enough lore to whet the appetite without fully sating it. He did smirk about Synnaros' theory, and said
"I have seen one of these giant stone sages of Imaskar, aye. Whether it be one of Seven or an Imaskarcana at all is for someone of more rarified interest than mine own. Of course, ye can only get answers out of it if ye know the tongue of the Imaskari, for it only recognizes that tongue. There be only one Faerunian living or dead who might teach it to ye, and he's hardly one to welcome ye for a lesson while he wanders about the Underhalls......"
Is that sufficient for peoples' curiosities on these stray references? We'll probably never know more officially until we turn our attentions to that corner of Faerun again.....sometime in the distant future......"
But I for one appreciate the digression.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 03 Feb 2019 02:04:55 |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
268 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2019 : 17:03:04
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| Thank you very much ! |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
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Aez
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2019 : 04:36:34
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
As for fort locations, they were scattered all over, with most clustered along the river line and the two "Waters" but also some in the flat lands and along the Earthspurs. If I ever managed to do an Impiltur product for the DMs Guild, I'd get someone talented to do a big map with all sorts of stuff on there. I was working toward something like that with Markus Tay but he's moved on to other projects.
Thanks for the help - I figured that the two "Waters" would be a hotspot for these fortifications due to all the conflicts with the Giantspurs hobgoblins.
I'm working on a (garbage) map as part of my work, but I do not fit the bill as a talented mapmaker. If you do ever put that together, I'd be thrilled to dig into it. |
-Aez |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
502 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2019 : 20:29:33
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As I was going through material trying to think up questions I stumbled on your fan lore "Lord of the End of Everything", somehow I had made a copy of it locally intending to read it and never did more than skim it, tragic. Well I remedied that, I must say it is fantastic. I understand it isn't canon, but it ties so well into so many things throughout FR history. I am canonizing it in my personal Realms. I find it is especially good at conveying how one empire flows into the next.
I couldn't find anyone specifically asking questions about it, so apologies if these have already been answered. With so much lore in that article it is hard to tell what ideas you created to connect everything? I think I remember reading Jergal was non-human in the past. I don't specifically remember the Imaskari having anything to do with the Nether Scrolls? I don't know of any references to Spell Weavers in FR. Really any sort of incite in your process of writing this piece would be welcomed. Hopefully learning about your process will help me write my own Realms material for my home game. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2019 : 00:41:10
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Ahh shucks. I can't claim all the credit. The article had its roots in work Eric Boyd and I were doing a few years ago and have now returned to. The Jergal/spellweaver connection came from him as did much of the early history and I then riffed in terms of Jergal's machinations over the Nether Scrolls, travels over Faerūn and concluding Netheril foray. Dazzlerdal notes most of the lore connections that brought it together (Ed's Border Kingdom mention of Godswalk Keep, the Underdark product noting a phaerimm presence in Imaskar, etc.).
I should point out to you that Eric had and has a different take on Jergal which is likely to be showcased in his next product Crown of Eaerlann if we ever finish it! When that happens, mine will quietly slide into somnolence and remain what it always was and is: fan musing.
Oh, and just so you know, given recent e-mail exchanges between Eric and I on adjunct topics, I think I would have to revamp the article a little bit in any event.
Thanks for taking the time. |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2019 : 08:36:58
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Somewhat unsettling news.
Wotc has abandoned this realms reality for their own less interesting creation(best thing they ever did in my opinion), and in the absence of their misguided steer, us realms fans have looked to others (You, Eric, and ed) to provide the expansions to lore we so desperately desire. And you have generously complied, for which we are infinitely grateful.
Canon is no longer official wotc approved sourcebooks, it is forum posts from the chambers of the sages, it is Twitter posts, it is articles like layla maurshanta, yahdi el alamat, the zulkirate of thay, the impiltur timeline, Lord of the end of everything, and sourcebooks like illefarn anew.
Until now there has been no conflict and use obsessed enthusiasts have catalogued everything and use it as much as any other official sourcebook.
If you and Eric have different views on Jergal then please attempt to reconcile them into a single vision. Eric's own approach is never to ignore a source and your article is now a source. Revise it, amend it, such things happened often in past sourcebooks, but please don't ignore it. I think Steven said that there are no mistakes, only opportunities for good
Storytelling.
I don't know if you have ever considered it or intended for it to happen but I (and I expect many in the community) regard you and Eric and ed as the keepers of canon for the 14th century DR. And although I doubt any of you intended for that to happen by generously providing your time and skills, but it is the state of things at the present.
On a more personal note I loved the Lord of the end of everything and regard it as an excellent explanation of one of the most mysterious deities in faerun. It is made even better because it closely mirrors my own approach, that gods do not directly affect the material plane, instead you made Jergal a real being with a colourful history and later catapulted him into an unwanted divinity, explaining many of the legends and tales about him. I hope we see a revised version later that works with Eric's vision as well, often the best lore comes from reconciling different works that seems incompatible.
And please don't take this as an attack or anything disparaging, I'm just trying to explain how i think many of us here feel about your articles and I would have for Lord of the end of everything to slide into obscurity and would instead like to see it reborn anew like an old adventure brought back to life, but I'm sure you and Eric are doing that already anyway.
Gary |
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Lukas Kain
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2019 : 11:13:54
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Hey how ya been, George? I haven't had much of a chance to dive into anything Realmsian for awhile now, but I've recently found both the time and motivation so I'm back!
I was wondering if you could give me any additional information on the Barrowlands in Impiltur. I've read the little tidbits in the Dragon article, but I was just wondering what it looks like. I know it's a wasteland of course, but can you tell me about anything else there? I know there are tombs, but what are they like? Any other ruins or notable features? At what point do the Barrowlands start from the coastline? What is it that keeps the Barrowlands from becoming more verdant?
And I mean I have to ask, any additional comments on the system of tunnels underground and the alleged Demonbinders that go with them? Where do the rumors/stories of their continued existence come from? How did the "adventurers" (I've always hated the term..) get down into the tunnels? If they're tombs, why is there even a system of tunnels?
Just a few questions 
Thanks George! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2019 : 02:23:14
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Hehe, that little tidbit is all there is. The rest is up to the DMs and gamers out there who want to expand on the lore and make it their own. I know that's not particularly helpful, but I've found that the Realms works better when you leave a bit of mystery and "wiggle room" in things.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Lukas Kain
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2019 : 10:15:17
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That's kind of what I figured was the intention. I just wondered in a general sense what your intentions were regarding it. Or comparing it to our world, what/where geographically would it be roughly analogous to?
It's good to be back |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2019 : 07:19:29
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Hi, George,
First of all, thank you very much for all your Realms creations, past, present, and future. Some of the greatest stuff Ive laid eyes on. speaking of... I was totally convinced thzt I had saved / copied your « Jergal, the Lord of the End of Everything » piece from the old Realmssecretariat site, but now it seems that I have not. Would it be possible to get a copy, please? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2019 : 07:58:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
Hi, George,
First of all, thank you very much for all your Realms creations, past, present, and future. Some of the greatest stuff Ive laid eyes on. speaking of... I was totally convinced thzt I had saved / copied your « Jergal, the Lord of the End of Everything » piece from the old Realmssecretariat site, but now it seems that I have not. Would it be possible to get a copy, please?
Sure Thauramarth. PM me your e-mail address and I'll send it through.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2019 : 15:25:52
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Lord Rilimbraun Heltharn spends most of his time in Lyrabar although he is known to summer in Filur. He wakes just before dawn in his residence Blackstag Manor, just east of the Mount and within a bowshot of the Liongate, and after his ablutions, he spends a candle in prayer to Tyr, seeking his deity's blessings for the day ahead. After a light breakfast (palmgolds and softcurd - peaches and yoghurt to you outlanders)...
I have a very specific query about an incredibly minor detail in this old lore about Lord Rilimbraun.
Where in the Realms do 'palmgolds' (peaches) grow and what can you tell me about their use in various regional cuisines?
By which I mean, are there areas known for palmgold cobbler or pies? Where are the most famous palmgold liquors made?
Lord Rilimbraun is a great lord, with access to vast resources, living in an affluent trade port, so the palmgolds could easily be imported from Aglarond, Old Empires, Thay or the Vilhon Reach, but there is a chance southern Impiltur (and by extension, then, probably also the southern part of the Vast, around Procampur and Tsurlagol) has a climate that makes it possible to grow them locally.
I'm asking because a cultured and cosmopolitan dwarf priest from the Earthfast is cooking a feast* and I was wondering if peaches were known (and available) in the Vast.
If they are, caramilized peaches can be used in place of tomatoes** to make a delicious sauce for grilling meat in firepits.
*Using up what remains of their fresh supplies before the adventurers must rely on travel rations for the rest of their journey.
**Which Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue insists are exotic fruits imported from Maztica. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2019 : 17:02:27
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In the eastern Realms, the Vilhon - specifically Turmish - grow the greatest quantity of palmgolds. Impiltur gets most of its stone fruit from the city-states of the Wizards Reach however, where there are abundant orchards also. Delthuntle leads the way in this regard. Impiltur on the whole cant grow palmgolds, and yes, it is only Rilimbrauns station that ensures a supply when they are in season.
George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2019 : 17:37:01
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
In the eastern Realms, the Vilhon - specifically Turmish - grow the greatest quantity of palmgolds. Impiltur gets most of its stone fruit from the city-states of the Wizards Reach however, where there are abundant orchards also. Delthuntle leads the way in this regard. Impiltur on the whole cant grow palmgolds, and yes, it is only Rilimbrauns station that ensures a supply when they are in season.
George Krashos
Thanks a lot.
Aside from apples, then, what fruits are grown in Impiltur and the Vast? |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2019 : 14:28:28
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Thanks, George.
The PCs stocked up twice, once in Ravens Bluff at the beginning of Mirtul and once in King's Reach on 15 Mirtul.
A halfling majordomo of one PC handled the provisioning in Ravens Bluff and anything that might have been expected to survive a month or so might still remain of those original supplies.
Depending on when Hargalon apples are harvested, the PCs might have been provided with a cask of them stored over the last few months of winter. If Hargalon apples are in season in the fall, for example, they might be sufficiently aged in Tarsakh and Mirtul to be perfect.
Other apples and pears aren't usually in season in early spring, so preserves made from them are more likely than fresh fruit, at least for the supplies bought just as Mirtul began. If any of these varietals are ripe in the spring, however, and grow near King's Reach in the Vast, the PCs would certainly have added a goodly supply.
If cherries in the Realms have similar growing seasons as on Earth, the first cherries of the sweet varietals should be ready in Mirtul and the sour ones should follow a month later (or as late as Eleasis or Eleint in colder areas). This means that the first harvest of Denba cherries and perhaps Olvur's Suns might be available in King's Reach on 15 Mirtul, especially if Olvur's Suns have historically been favored by dwarves in the region (seems plausible judging by where they are grown).
Plum season should also be starting. Out of Peris, Galen and Tebel varietals are most favored by dwarves and most likely to be available in King's Reach?
Dwarves are obviously going to want many kinds of sweet fruit to make alcoholic beverages, if nothing else, and it makes sense for them to have grown them on the surface around King's Reach while they briefly held sway in the region. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2019 : 22:19:24
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Your timing sounds right re when fruit is available. The dwarves source Galan plums for eating, and they are found in the Vast, but love to get their hands on Tebel for distilling into plum brandy. Rumor has it that some dwarven merchants trade arms and armor to the monasteries and temples of the Triad in Impiltur for access to Tebel plums.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2019 : 03:39:41
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Friend Krash, I'm working on an NPC. He's a half-dragon priest of Oghma. For no particular reason, I decided to have him be from Impiltur.
So, how are half-dragons treated in Impiltur? (Mine is half-bronze)
And aside from the big temple in Songhal, how widely worshipped is Oghma, in Impiltur? |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2019 : 20:04:53
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Say, George, what can you tell us about etiquette, good manners and 'the done thing' in Impiltur?
What is the expected course of events when a young man cones a courting?
What about when a young lady becomes enamored with a stranger introduced to her at a ball? What are her options and what is viewed as the 'done thing'?
In romantic chap books popular in Impiltur, what kibd of behaviour is edgy and exciting, but still sympathetic?
What behaviour crosses a moral line and marks a previosly exciting love interest as a dastard and a blackguard?
How are social mores and expected behaviour for young nobles (and those who aspire to noble status, such as through marriage) distinct from normal common courtesy?
To take a concrete example, how does aristocratic bodice-ripping romantic literature in Impiltur treat adultery, specifically, betrothed partners being seperated and sleeping with someone else before finding their loves again.
Many Anglosphere players will unconsciously assume that manners and savoir-faire anywhere in the Heartland and 'civilized' Realms defaults to a variety of Regency social mores, with perhaps some later Victorian flourishes.
That is, we expect Impilturan nobles to act either like the youths in Georghette Heyer stories or the far more straight-laced Regency Romance heroes and heroines, interprented, in the worst case, through Victorian mores held by parents, aunts and petty social climbers.
How wrong are our assumptions?
What should we expect instead?
How much freedom do the daughters of social-climbers enjoy, when it comes to making their own friends, selecting their own prospective mates and the like? Assuming gently-born (if little known), affluent, but never really respected among the true upper crust.
Are tropes and mores from Earthly 'Comedies of Manners' applicable at all?
Or are The Song of Ice and Fire stories a more reasonable depiction of how Impilturan gentry and nobility handle courting, familial allegiances and weddings.
Basically, when I've got numerous characters aspiring to idealized Impiltur upper-class values, for some of them raised to them and others gotten from books, what are those values and how do they clash? |
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BrennonGoldeye
Learned Scribe
105 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2019 : 16:44:33
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I just gotta say, George.. your one of the BEST.
Sam |
Sam |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 15:59:15
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Well, why wouldn't you have him come from Impiltur? It's the most brilliant FR realm going around.
Honestly, I would have never thought of Impiltur, if not for your love of the place. It simply wasn't on my mental map of the Realms, so to speak, until you started fleshing it out, here. It's great lore like this post that made me interested in the area. 
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
My answer works for the pre-Spellplague Impiltur, though I suppose it can be adapted to the Sundering era if you like.
I don't have a specific date for my project in mind; I'm kind of leaving it open. That said, I favor the pre-Spellplague era, and my musing is focused in that direction.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
With the advent of the Rage in the Year of Rogue Dragons (1373 DR) and the devastation brought to the realm by the machinations of Sammaster and the madness wrought on the Queen's Bronzes, the attitude to half-dragons has shifted perceptibly. Some of the half-dragon progeny were affected by the Rage also, exhibiting uncharacteristic behaviors and in a few cases, committing acts of violence or destruction that saw them land afoul of the authorities. Since that time, the people of Impiltur have been less welcoming to half-dragons of all types and the Burnished have experienced a degree of prejudice and distrust that has made it difficult for them to live "normal" lives. A fair few have left the realm as a result, while others have moved to smaller towns and settlements to avoid this treatment, and currently being a half-dragon in Impiltur comes with the stigma of noticeable racial intolerance.
So there it is. Your NPC is likely to be having a tough time of it, but hey, them's the breaks.
My guy's backstory is that he was born in Impiltur, but he doesn't know who his father was -- his mother didn't even know she'd slept with a dragon until she gave birth to a half-dragon. So Daddy Bronze could have been one of the dragons you describe, or he could have been from somewhere else. Most likely, he was from somewhere else.
There is another bronze dragon as part of my half-dragon's backstory -- but that other bronze is not much more than a name, and the notation that he was a follower of Oghma, himself. My guy changes his name to something inspired by this prior bronze, who was nicknamed Sharpquills; my guy considers himself to be a spiritual heir of this prior dragon. Where this prior dragon even lived isn't important -- just that there was an Oghma-worshipping bronze dragon, at some point in the past.
My guy becomes an adventurer and joins the Harpers, and thus is away from Impiltur when the Rage happens.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
And quickly, Oghma is worshipped in Impiltur as it has always accommodated that faith and also that of Deneir as a "frontier of learning" in the lands of the East, but I wouldn't describe that worship as being "wide". Songhal houses the only temple but there are shrines in Lyrabar and Sarshel as well.
-- George Krashos
I think the easiest thing is for my guy to have been born in Songhal. Despite his mom's support and the fact that half-dragons weren't prejudiced against at the time, he was still kind of a lonely kid, because he was different. And then one day he goes into the temple, where a priest who had seen him around town notices him and decides to take him under his wing -- eventually leading to my guy joining the priesthood, himself. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Oct 2019 16:00:26 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 17:25:29
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Glad that nothing I wrote was useful!
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2019 : 01:43:44
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Glad that nothing I wrote was useful!
-- George Krashos
You provided good info. I wasn't sure if Oghma's temple there in Songhal was a one-off or not, and knowing that my guy wouldn't have been attacked on sight or actively distrusted helped -- otherwise, I would have had to move him elsewhere.
And the background on the bronzes means that I can, if I want to, connect either his mysterious father and/or Sharpquills to Impiltur. (Bronze Daddy could have been actively hiding from the local bronzes, which is an interesting idea I'd not had before)
So it didn't change the backstory I had, but gave more potential and confirmed the idea as workable. And I appreciated the lore, too. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Oct 2019 01:44:26 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2019 : 00:40:05
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George, have you thought about brewing styles in Impiltur?
Going by what I guess about the climate and terrain, I can imagine that barley and wheat grow well in Impiltur and that they can make a wider variety of ales and beers than is possible in the Swordcoast North.
Would you consider it implausible or contrary to your internal headcanon if Impiltur was known for brewing ales and beers with a high proportion of wheat (i.e. somewhat like real-world Grodziskie or Weizenbier)?
According to Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, in the North, the standard tavern beverage are stouts. Stouts are also brewed in Cormyr and around the Moonsea, there are brown ales available in the Dalelands and lager appears to be a fairly new innovation from Calimshan. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2019 : 10:36:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
George, have you thought about brewing styles in Impiltur?
Going by what I guess about the climate and terrain, I can imagine that barley and wheat grow well in Impiltur and that they can make a wider variety of ales and beers than is possible in the Swordcoast North.
Would you consider it implausible or contrary to your internal headcanon if Impiltur was known for brewing ales and beers with a high proportion of wheat (i.e. somewhat like real-world Grodziskie or Weizenbier)?
According to Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, in the North, the standard tavern beverage are stouts. Stouts are also brewed in Cormyr and around the Moonsea, there are brown ales available in the Dalelands and lager appears to be a fairly new innovation from Calimshan.
See page 35 of this thread.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2019 : 12:21:09
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
See page 35 of this thread.
-- George Krashos
Ah, that's what I was looking for!
Inevitably, I have some questions.
First of all, there is no mention of beer where malted wheat is used to supplement or replace the malted barley. Of course, unless the Realms climate and agriculture are utterly foreign to us Earthlings, such beers will be commonplace anywhere wheat is more plentiful than barley.
A cursory examination of Realms sources has not revealed any mention of such beers that I can find, but I consider absence of evidence no evidence of absence and conclude that it is most likely that such beers haven't been mentioned because most of the focus of Volo's Guides and similar supplements has been on regions where different beer styles are more popular.
In general, in the northern lands of the Realms, wheat is harder to grow and therefore more expensive. With barley being hardier, it's not hard to see why the Swordcoast North would be known mostly for ales that use mostly malted barley, such as stouts.
Climate-wise, however, anywhere wheat grows in plenty, there could be a local taste for beer styles using malted wheat. And while Waterdeep is too far north for wheat to be truly cheap there, I would be very surprised if there was not a some kind of wheat ale made at Goldenfields, for example.
Given that we have somewhat detailed descriptions of the cuisine of the Western Heartlands, the Swordcoast, the Daleland and Cormyr from the various Volo's Guides, I'd consider the ales mentioned in them a reasonable cross-section of popular styles in those regions. Furthermore, from novels and the like, Sembia seems similar to their neighbours in Cormyr and the Dales in most agricultural matters, as well as being decent wine-country.
Much of the Lands of Intrigue are southerly enough to be suitable for vineyards, which tends to reduce ale and beer demand, but both Amn and Tethyr likely have significant local beer traditions, some of which might make use of wheat.
By the same token, most of the southern shores of the Sea of Fallen Stars are known for their wine production, not their ales and beers.
So, if I want to feature wheat beers in the Realms, I figured that the Vast, Impiltur, Damara and Thesk were good potential areas for such beers to be regionally popular.
Where would you locate the most famous wheat beer breweries in the Realms?
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
BEER & ALE
Much of the beer production in Impiltur is concentrated in the cleared lands between Hlammach and Dilpur where cereal crops including barley are grown. The two cities are rivals in this regard and both produce slightly different products. In Hlammach, most of the barley is dried using coke, which gives it a lighter hue, while the "traditional" fire-dried barley used in the beers and ales of Dilur give them a darker hue. More recently, beer from farming communities (known as "thaedar") in the Uplands have become all the rage in the major cities of the realm. These beers are different again in that they use wild hops that provide a more bitter taste, one that connoisseurs regard as indicative of high quality.
The coke-fired ales of Hlammach are clearly analogous to Earth-made pale ales. What about the darker ales of Dilur? Do you imagine them being like real-world porters, stouts or brown ales? Or do examples of all three exist?
What real-world beer or ale would be closest to the bitter ales made with wild hops in Upland thaedar? What do people in Impiltur and the Vast call such ales or beer? |
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AJA
Senior Scribe
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2019 : 23:18:14
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George,
I'm reading through the history sections of Under Illefarn Anew (and once again excellent work to all involved, it cannot be said enough) but I'm having a bit of difficulty with the Phalorm/Delimbyran/Kingdom of Man section.
Basically, I'm not following along with this;
On p.22 (Annotated version, if it matters), under the Delimbiyran, Kingdom of Man entry, it states;
quote:
King Javilarhh II built a new kingdom called Delimbiyran and renamed House Snowsword to be the House of Man
That's fine; I can follow the difference between Javilarhh I (Shining Kingdom of Delimbyran, dominion of Phalorm) and Javilarhh II (Delimbyran, the independent Kingdom of Man). That also follows the information given in Lost Empires of Faerūn, p.44.
But on p.23, under the table for Snowsword/House of Man Dynasty it says
quote:
Haryd I Snowsword; founded Delimbyran, Kingdom of Man
(born before Javilarhh II and the given date of 616DR lines up with the timeline on p.29)
Also, looking farther back, on Page 2 of your "Questions for" thread, you posted a different lineage (I'm assuming an early draft, but added here anyway);
quote:
Javilarhh I, "the Dark" Born: 479DR Reigned: 511DR-528DR
Darnorth I Born: 502DR Reigned: 528DR-559DR
Darnorth II Born: 530DR Reigned: 559DR-594DR
Javilarhh II Born: 563DR Reigned: 594DR-646DR
Haryd I Born: 599DR Reigned: 646DR-665DR
Haryd II, "the Brave" Born: 627DR Reigned: 665DR-688DR
Haryd III Born: 655DR Reigned: 688DR-695DR
Davyd I Born: 677DR Reigned: 695DR-697DR
My assumption is that the Snowsword/House of Man Dynasty table is incorrect, but I'd like to know for sure what I'm missing.
So.... ?
EDIT:
Out of curiosity (he says innocently), in regards to the Endless Battle, which of House of Man ruler would you say best fits the epithet of "the Marching King (The Trod of Steel and Terrible Swift Sentence)"?
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AJA
YAFRP
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Edited by - AJA on 08 Nov 2019 00:32:46 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2019 : 10:08:14
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As I recall, Eric changed the original line up (from p.2) in my thread to account for his write-up of the Barony of Starshadow in "Power of Faerūn" (p.97-99).
But you are right that this doesn't tally with LEOF (p.144). So the table is incorrect and should reference Javilarhh II founding the Kingdom of Man. I would therefore have Javilarhh III reign briefly (and be "the Dark" - Javilarhh II for a bit of fun can be "the Fair") to allow Davyd's reign.
I'll chat to Eric about changing "Under Illefarn Anew".
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 11 Nov 2019 11:32:08 |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2019 : 10:29:15
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quote:
Originally posted by AJA
EDIT:
Out of curiosity (he says innocently), in regards to the Endless Battle, which of House of Man ruler would you say best fits the epithet of "the Marching King (The Trod of Steel and Terrible Swift Sentence)"?
I'd probably vote for Haryd II, as his life and reign are consumed by the Endless Battle. |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
Edited by - ericlboyd on 11 Nov 2019 10:42:08 |
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Questions for George Krashos
