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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 16:14:22
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| -Brian, I've got another little tidbit to contribute to the reasons the Sundering took place in circa -24,000, not -17,600. How could the Couatls and the Yuan-Ti do battle on the Chultan peninsula around the same time, when the Chultan peninsula technically didn't exist? The map on pg. 6 doesn't exactly show me a Chultan Peninsula, though theoretically, where Mhairshaulk and the Human tribes could be considered it (although, I do believe that is what becomes Maztica, isn't it?). If the Sundering indeed took place in -17,600, the Chultan peninsula technically did not exist in -24,000 to -23,000. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 05:47:56
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It reached backwords and forwards in time, remember? 
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
were the giants in Grey a made up thing, or is there some resource that it came from. They just intrigue me.
Kara-Tur campaign setting, volume I, pg. 33
It's only a paragraph, and doesn't really tell us who or what they are. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 15:25:21
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Hi Brian!
I finally got my hands on my copy of GHoTR -- it's absolutely fantastic! So, a big THANK YOU for your years of dedicated work, which resulted in this great tome being published. And I also loved your article about the Ironfang Keep in Dragon -- as a fan of the old Pool of Radiance -game, I was especially fond of seeing Hargut finally get some time "in the spotlight".   |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 17:40:13
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| I also enjoyed your article on Ironfang Keep when I read it today! My question: how long can doppelgangers live naturally? Did Haask survive from the time when the Batrachi held sway, or was he relatively younger when he took over Ironfang Keep? And did he have to make use of longevity magic to live throughout the entire rule of his empire? |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 18:38:56
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Brian, I still can't get A Temporal Chronology of the Primes to work on my Mac when I download it from Geonomicon as an HTML file. Is it available as a pdf? I can copy and paste it to Word, but all of your lovely color-coding and most of the organization goes right out the window(s) if I do.
Have you received any intimation from Wizards that they want to publish the whole Temporal Chronology?
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 18:54:02
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Hi Brian! I have read your Realmslore article and found it very intersting. There are several questions that arose after reading it though. One I could figure out myself - that was who Haask, Voice of Hargut was and were he made his first appearence in realms lore (Pool of Radiance game/novel if I am not mistaken).
However, there is still much mystery around this article. Could you or someone else elaborate on this a little more. I have not played the game Pool of Radiance (it was a little before my time). Is that eccential to have played through the game or have read the book to fully understand all this? What's with the 'green' (that Wooly pointed out in another thread)?! And who/what was 'Hargut of the Gray Pestilence' originally? Will we see more articles of the Lost Gods in the future?
Thanks in advance, Ergdusch
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 07 Nov 2007 19:53:05 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 20:55:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
What's with the 'green' (that Wooly pointed out in another thread)?!
As I recall, it was a single blurb in The Moonsea (I'm at work, so I can't check that book) that said pretty much the same thing: a wizard made it in, and was later found crazed and only able to say the word "green".
For me, that's almost a Lovecraftian kinda creepy.  |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Nov 2007 20:59:21 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 23:12:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
What's with the 'green' (that Wooly pointed out in another thread)?!
As I recall, it was a single blurb in The Moonsea (I'm at work, so I can't check that book) that said pretty much the same thing: a wizard made it in, and was later found crazed and only able to say the word "green".
For me, that's almost a Lovecraftian kinda creepy.
'Twas from The Moonsea.
Pg. 60 - "Legend states that one person has actually penetrated the keep, but was found wandering across the wild lands of Thar. He was completely mad, and all he could mutter was the word "green."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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Edited by - The Sage on 07 Nov 2007 23:14:05 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 00:08:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
What's with the 'green' (that Wooly pointed out in another thread)?!
As I recall, it was a single blurb in The Moonsea (I'm at work, so I can't check that book) that said pretty much the same thing: a wizard made it in, and was later found crazed and only able to say the word "green".
For me, that's almost a Lovecraftian kinda creepy.
'Twas from The Moonsea.
Pg. 60 - "Legend states that one person has actually penetrated the keep, but was found wandering across the wild lands of Thar. He was completely mad, and all he could mutter was the word "green."
I guess I got my wish on a "god" that was more Cthulu"ish" after all.
My question is this:
What exactly is the "Far Realm" and how does it interact with the "normal" universe? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 00:16:45
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quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
My question is this:
What exactly is the "Far Realm" and how does it interact with the "normal" universe?
It is kinda the plane beyond all other planes, and a place so weird that mortal minds are driven mad by it. IRRC, it is where aboleths and beholders originated, and many other aberrations. Lord's of Madness is a pretty good source about it (I don't know about 2e sources), and the new book coming out next month, Elder Evils, should be a pretty good source too. |
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Edited by - Hawkins on 08 Nov 2007 00:18:14 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 00:35:50
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quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
My question is this:
What exactly is the "Far Realm"...
The Far Realm works best as the "unknowable alien territory" -- existing outside the traditional cosmological structure. The Far Realm itself does not exist within the cosmological framework of the Great Tree -- merely some element of the Far Realm has been referenced as impacting on 3e FR and its planar structure. This implies that it exists -- has been referenced -- in 3e FR.
Thus, the Far Realm does exist with the 3e FR cosmology, and can be considered an element outside the Realms planar framework. Specifically, it's noted in the Dragonking details in CoS:W... pg. 63 -- under the "Wands" noble family entry.
The original reference was in the 3rd of the "Marco Volo" modules in which the Dragonking makes a brief appearance in the Realms. (I wouldn't really recommend this adventure trilogy however, but they are considered part of canon Realmslore). Eric tells us he that tried to work with them when expanding on the Dragonking entry in CoS. You can find the modules here for free:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads
From there, the Dragonking was mentioned in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical -- under the entry for the "Dragonking's Eye". Eric, thus, continued with the reference into CoS:W and makes a more solid connection to the Far Realm...
quote:
...and how does it interact with the "normal" universe?
In terms of the Realms, I don't think this can really be answered in any truly specific way... since there are so few examples in the Realmslore to use as evidence.
However, with regard to the Dragonking's Eye... since the defeat of the Dragonking (after it was released by Marcus Wands), it's been noted that the alien god's release has resulted in an unusual effect occuring in the Realms. Strange entities from the Far Realm have slowly began appearing within the local vicinity of individual members of House Wands, and almost always at random.
So, for the most part, it would seem as though the Wands family have garnered some rather "undesired" attention from the bizarre creatures of the Outside Realm.
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Edited by - The Sage on 08 Nov 2007 00:36:26 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 00:44:25
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
My question is this:
What exactly is the "Far Realm" and how does it interact with the "normal" universe?
It is kinda the plane beyond all other planes, and a place so weird that mortal minds are driven mad by it. IRRC, it is where aboleths and beholders originated, and many other aberrations. Lord's of Madness is a pretty good source about it (I don't know about 2e sources), and the new book coming out next month, Elder Evils, should be a pretty good source too.
The Far Realm has been referenced in numerous 1e and 2e sources, like Manual of the Planes [in the 3e tome as well].
In fact, I think I've got a listing around here somewhere, that notes all the references for the Far Realm [1e-to-3e] from it's first initial mentions in long ago products. Hmmm...
*digs through the electronic archives*
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 08 Nov 2007 00:45:16 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 01:29:21
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That's certainly an interesting conundrum Dagnirion, for which I have no answer. It might be explained away by this Abeir vs. Toril business I keep hearing about, but well need to wait for the 4E campaign guide to learn the truth of that.quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-Brian, I've got another little tidbit to contribute to the reasons the Sundering took place in circa -24,000, not -17,600. How could the Couatls and the Yuan-Ti do battle on the Chultan peninsula around the same time, when the Chultan peninsula technically didn't exist? The map on pg. 6 doesn't exactly show me a Chultan Peninsula, though theoretically, where Mhairshaulk and the Human tribes could be considered it (although, I do believe that is what becomes Maztica, isn't it?). If the Sundering indeed took place in -17,600, the Chultan peninsula technically did not exist in -24,000 to -23,000.
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 01:32:36
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Thanks for the kind words Asgetrion. I have the Grand History sitting in front of me but sometimes it still doesn't seem real to me that it was actually published.
I'm a big fan of Pool of Radiance as well and it was fun writing an article that included Haask, Voice of Hargut.quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I finally got my hands on my copy of GHoTR -- it's absolutely fantastic! So, a big THANK YOU for your years of dedicated work, which resulted in this great tome being published. And I also loved your article about the Ironfang Keep in Dragon -- as a fan of the old Pool of Radiance -game, I was especially fond of seeing Hargut finally get some time "in the spotlight".
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 01:37:33
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Haask was definitely not your ordinary doppelganger. Even among the batrachi (one of the fabled creator races mind you) he was gifted with exceptional talents and yes he is a survivor from the Days of Thunder. His unnatural longevity was granted to him by his strong faith in his god. Which god exactly is not revealed in the article.
quote:
Originally posted by freyar
I also enjoyed your article on Ironfang Keep when I read it today! My question: how long can doppelgangers live naturally? Did Haask survive from the time when the Batrachi held sway, or was he relatively younger when he took over Ironfang Keep? And did he have to make use of longevity magic to live throughout the entire rule of his empire?
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 01:39:53
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It's unlikely that Wizards would want to publish A Temporal Chronology of the Primes, but perhaps it is time I give that work another polish and make it available as a PDF. No promises but I'll see what I can do.
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Brian, I still can't get A Temporal Chronology of the Primes to work on my Mac when I download it from Geonomicon as an HTML file. Is it available as a pdf? I can copy and paste it to Word, but all of your lovely color-coding and most of the organization goes right out the window(s) if I do. Have you received any intimation from Wizards that they want to publish the whole Temporal Chronology?
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 01:44:10
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No, knowledge of Pool of Radiance is not required to appreciate Haask or Hargut. They are barely even mentioned, and then only as a minor snippet in one of the adventurer journals that came with the game. The name, Hargut of the Gray Pestilence is introduced in the Ironfang Keep article so there is no previous lore about this abomination. I would love to write more articles on the Lost Gods in the future, but I have no plans to do so at this time.
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
I have not played the game Pool of Radiance (it was a little before my time). Is that eccential to have played through the game or have read the book to fully understand all this? What's with the 'green' (that Wooly pointed out in another thread)?! And who/what was 'Hargut of the Gray Pestilence' originally? Will we see more articles of the Lost Gods in the future?
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 03:32:51
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quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
What's with the 'green' (that Wooly pointed out in another thread)?!
As I recall, it was a single blurb in The Moonsea (I'm at work, so I can't check that book) that said pretty much the same thing: a wizard made it in, and was later found crazed and only able to say the word "green".
For me, that's almost a Lovecraftian kinda creepy.
'Twas from The Moonsea.
Pg. 60 - "Legend states that one person has actually penetrated the keep, but was found wandering across the wild lands of Thar. He was completely mad, and all he could mutter was the word "green."
I guess I got my wish on a "god" that was more Cthulu"ish" after all.
My question is this:
What exactly is the "Far Realm" and how does it interact with the "normal" universe?
Check out Star Deep by Bruce R Cordell. It has some info on the Far Realms, and the Cerulean Sign.
I never realized that the Far Realms existed in the Realms so to speak.
I wonder what WotC has in store for us in the 4E Realms?  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
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will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 14:37:47
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Hello,
I was wondering if there were any references in GHotR to NWN: Hordes of the Underdark?
Thanks,
RF |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 16:32:14
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quote:
originally posted by Dalor Darden
My question is this:
What exactly is the "Far Realm" and how does it interact with the "normal" universe?
And is it just me who prefer to call them "the Dungeon Dimensions?" |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 20:48:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
It's unlikely that Wizards would want to publish A Temporal Chronology of the Primes, but perhaps it is time I give that work another polish and make it available as a PDF. No promises but I'll see what I can do.
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Brian, I still can't get A Temporal Chronology of the Primes to work on my Mac when I download it from Geonomicon as an HTML file. Is it available as a pdf? I can copy and paste it to Word, but all of your lovely color-coding and most of the organization goes right out the window(s) if I do. Have you received any intimation from Wizards that they want to publish the whole Temporal Chronology?
Thanks. My breath is baited. 
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 23:14:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
originally posted by Dalor Darden
My question is this:
What exactly is the "Far Realm" and how does it interact with the "normal" universe?
And is it just me who prefer to call them "the Dungeon Dimensions?"
I don't call them the "Dungeon Dimensions' specifically, but Pratchett's work on the alien region has been helpful for my planar campaigns when it comes to tailoring the Far Realm itself to my particular tastes!
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 08 Nov 2007 23:16:23 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2007 : 05:05:09
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No Rinonalyrna I don't believe an entry made it in the Grand History for HotU, though it was my favorite expansion of NWN1. The ending, for instance, would be especially problematic to canonize.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I was wondering if there were any references in GHotR to NWN: Hordes of the Underdark?
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
502 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2007 : 17:55:38
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I'm with Brian, HotU was my favorite too. I really do wish that they would work with the game developers to create canonic games. I know BG1 isn't totally canonic and I have heard mixed things about the novel but the fact that the general events did happen means I could use some of them or hint to them in my canonic campaign.
It always makes the players eyes light up when they know they have a little more information on the background story since they read it or played it somewhere. I've been trying to figure out how to put HotU into canon especially the very last part in Waterdeep, "choking powder FTW". |
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Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
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DM: Like what?
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DM: There is a lot of stuff.
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DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2007 : 22:38:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
That's certainly an interesting conundrum Dagnirion, for which I have no answer.
-The only way to try to rectify it is by considering Mhairshaulk and the Human tribes of the west to be the Chultan peninsula. However, when the Sundering does happen,much of Mhairshaulk and those western Human tribes becomes Maztica.
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
It might be explained away by this Abeir vs. Toril business I keep hearing about, but well need to wait for the 4E campaign guide to learn the truth of that.
-Feh. More mucking up the timeline...
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I was wondering if there were any references in GHotR to NWN: Hordes of the Underdark?
-I caught references to the original, and Shadows of Undrentide. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
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Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 01:30:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
No Rinonalyrna I don't believe an entry made it in the Grand History for HotU, though it was my favorite expansion of NWN1. The ending, for instance, would be especially problematic to canonize.
Too bad! Thanks for the answer, though.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 01:31:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
It always makes the players eyes light up when they know they have a little more information on the background story since they read it or played it somewhere. I've been trying to figure out how to put HotU into canon especially the very last part in Waterdeep, "choking powder FTW".
For my part: The BBEG was killed, but not permanently, thanks to his nature. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2007 : 21:35:37
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Well met, Brian!
I have asked a question about your use of "antediluvian" in the page about the Scouring of the Utter East on the scroll: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10226. Would you please be so kind as to answer it there -- it's focused on the Utter East and your answer would be appropriate there? (I think you ought to answer here, too, though, so your answer can be added to the annual collection of lore from everyone who isn't Ed Greenwood). Thank you very much.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2007 : 03:24:52
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Although he answered it there, the word 'antideluvian' in regards to the Realms can be swapped for 'primordial', or any other word that means "before recorded human history".
Question: I notice that the vingettes in the GHotR appear within a page of the timeline date they are referencing. The only one we are unsure about it the one regarding The Dawn Cataclysm (you know, where the priest of Pelor shows up ). My question is this - is the placement of that vingette a hint as to about when the Dawn Cataclysm actually took place? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2007 : 05:16:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Although he answered it there, the word 'antideluvian' in regards to the Realms can be swapped for 'primordial', or any other word that means "before recorded human history".
Question: I notice that the vingettes in the GHotR appear within a page of the timeline date they are referencing. The only one we are unsure about it the one regarding The Dawn Cataclysm (you know, where the priest of Pelor shows up ). My question is this - is the placement of that vingette a hint as to about when the Dawn Cataclysm actually took place?
No. Eric was quite specific about that when layout of the vignettes was being discussed.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Questions for Brian R. James
