Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Realmslore
 Chamber of Sages
 Questions for Brian R. James
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 17

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14551 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2011 :  00:25:44  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
AFAIK, No - more was added to the printed version.

The only parts 'left out' were the nifty color-coding (by region), and some of his speculative work pertaining to Toril's 'pre-history', which prologued the timeline in his original work.

Bryan's timeline was 100% drawn from canon sources, and I believe they left all of that intact.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Feb 2011 17:59:28
Go to Top of Page

althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2011 :  02:19:48  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
well, thats nice. I felt like I missed something because I thought
a lot in the book would end up on the cutting room floor.
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30430 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2011 :  05:26:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know of at least one entry in the pdf Grand History that didn't make it to the printed version. I happened to find one when I was consulting both sources for something.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Feb 2011 05:28:41
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14551 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2011 :  18:14:41  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Really? Would you care to elaborate?

I thought only his pre-history stuff was left-out (being homebrew), and even a good chunk of that remained in (the stuff Gray theorized, I believe).

A lot did wind-up on the 'cutting room floor', from what I understand, but i was lead to believe it was all newer material.

I'd love to see an expanded, leather-bound version with all that stuff put back in, and maybe a bit more.

They can leave out all the stuff on Seros... seriously... it has ZERO impact on 99.9% of the games out there, and unless you read that specific series of novels, it also matters NOT AT ALL to non-gaming fans of the Realms. What a major waste of space that was - they should have put it all in a WE and kept more juicy bits in.

And NEW artwork.... PLEEEEEEEEEEASE!

My stomache still turns when I see the Warforged (I can't turn the page fast enough). And no more "this is what Storm would look like if her hair were blonde", and "This is what Gondegal's armor looked like", or "here's a pebble that Elminster once walked past".

Okay, that last one was an exaggeration, but you get the point. If cows could read, even their intelligence would have been insulted by those captions.

Anyhow, I would still like to know what previous-canon entries were left out, and what was behind those decisions. There were quite a few that could have been left out (like ALL the Seros material), so I have to wonder at the reasoning behind whatever cuts were made.

In other words, were certain 'holes' left in-place so that future plans could over-write past lore without contradicting the GHotR?

And Bryan - make them get to work on my leather-bound, 'Director's Cut' edition.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Feb 2011 18:34:50
Go to Top of Page

althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2011 :  21:50:22  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've noticed some elven items that didn't make the
book, but they weren't real important except to
a devoted Elfquest gamemaster like me.
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30430 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2011 :  22:23:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Really? Would you care to elaborate?


In the last-released version of the pdf (and prolly prior versions), there is an entry for the year -645 DR. From page 33 of the pdf:

quote:
-645 DR (Year of Eternal Amber)
Telamont Tanthul, later known as Lord Shadow, is born. (Netheril) [TSR1147 p.115]


However, that event is not listed at all in the printed version (it should be on page 41).

There may be others; I only looked up that specific year because of the original Roll of Years -- there are two different names listed for -645 DR. I was checking to see if there were any canon references to events in that year, to see which name had been used.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I'd love to see an expanded, leather-bound version with all that stuff put back in, and maybe a bit more.


Oh, gods, that would be wonderful!


quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

They can leave out all the stuff on Seros... seriously... it has ZERO impact on 99.9% of the games out there, and unless you read that specific series of novels, it also matters NOT AT ALL to non-gaming fans of the Realms. What a major waste of space that was - they should have put it all in a WE and kept more juicy bits in.


I very much disagree. While Serôs is pretty much isolated from the rest of the Realms (lore-wise, that is), I still think it's a fascinating place, and one I'd like to see more of.

It's also where Jorunhast wound up.

I think Serôs was a good idea, and could have been an interesting direction to expand the Realms in. Of course, like so much else that was interesting and full of potential, it was utterly ignored in 3E.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

And NEW artwork.... PLEEEEEEEEEEASE!

My stomache still turns when I see the Warforged (I can't turn the page fast enough). And no more "this is what Storm would look like if her hair were blonde", and "This is what Gondegal's armor looked like", or "here's a pebble that Elminster once walked past".




There is some art I enjoyed in that book... But yeah, a lot of it looks like it was in there just to have some art.

I like the pic of the warforged, but it has no place in a Realms book -- and I say this as a fan of warforged who has come up with ways to create (in small numbers) some Realms-specific warforged variants.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2011 :  00:19:30  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Remember, for part of one of his lifetimes, Khelben
spent a lot of time in Seros collecting evil/powerful
artifacts and spelljamming helms (i think), so more's
down there that might be relevent, but just never
covered. It did explain to me why where were sea
elves in Semberholme though to me. That was helpful.
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2011 :  00:53:52  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

They can leave out all the stuff on Seros... seriously... it has ZERO impact on 99.9% of the games out there, and unless you read that specific series of novels, it also matters NOT AT ALL to non-gaming fans of the Realms. What a major waste of space that was - they should have put it all in a WE and kept more juicy bits in.


I very much disagree. While Serôs is pretty much isolated from the rest of the Realms (lore-wise, that is), I still think it's a fascinating place, and one I'd like to see more of.

It's also where Jorunhast wound up.

I think Serôs was a good idea, and could have been an interesting direction to expand the Realms in.
I concur with this. And, in fact, it's also one of the reasons why I've been slowly tinkering with the possibility of expanding on previously existing lore -- especially post-Jorunhast... who is just such a fascinating and entirely underused fellow.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14551 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2011 :  06:47:34  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have nothing against warforged - if someone wanted to use one in one of my games I can up with a dozen different origins for them.

I only have issues with that pic, which has absolutely nothing to with a dragon dying.

As for Seros - I think "it's one of those things" that only a dedicated fan of Realmslore would appreciate. It is lore for lore's sake, which I normally have no issue with either, but c'mon... how many people run underwater games?

As a fan of the setting I enjoyed it... ONCE... when I paid for it the first time and read it back in 2e. I didn't need to read it again, unlike most of the surface-history, which I can actually use for my adventures (and enjoy looking through, time and again, for juicy bits).

And the fact that they missed a golden opportunity with the Shalarin (tying them to Abeir) just makes it all the more painful. They actually had a piece of old lore practically begging to be tied to Abeir, and ignored it... in a book designed to introduce a setting that is all about Abeir returning. It fact, they didn't ignore it - that at least would have left the door wide open for conjecture - instead, they purposely slammed it shut by stating that the Sea of Corynactis was somewhere on Toril. What was the point of that?

Go figure.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 27 Feb 2011 06:49:40
Go to Top of Page

althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2011 :  00:20:27  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Instances like the one above just says to me:
"Nope, don't want to research out all the past
material to make seamless transitions to new material.
I KNOW, lets nuke the setting, wipe it clean, so we
don't have the burden of work (research)."
Sorry, real pet peeve new stuff not necessarily tied
to old stuff. Didn't mean to micro-rant.
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14551 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2011 :  17:58:23  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I did try to link old lore to new lore (in ways it was never meant to be), but the lore involving the Shalarin - which would have been PERFECT for what I was trying to accomplish - was completely nerfed, for no other reason then just to nerf it.

I was hoping to do a whole 'Finding Abeir' thing, to allow older fans to at least accept the possibility that Abeir could have been there the whole time. I gave up on that, though, because it seems that both camps didn't want me to bother. In fact, its the second 'cross-edition' project I canceled due to lack of interest (the other being the Anchoromé/Larakond conversion map).

Anyhow, sorry to have dropped all of this into Brian's thread - hope either he or Krash has some input on what & why certain entries were dropped.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1944 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2011 :  01:32:52  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I apologize if this has been asked before. I stumbled over an old thread with a link to an XML created by yourself, Xoth Jakolor. Is this available in any other format? PDF, perhaps? I find that I am unable to scroll and copy/paste at the same time. Thanks!

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4948 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  11:47:31  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Well, I did try to link old lore to new lore (in ways it was never meant to be), but the lore involving the Shalarin - which would have been PERFECT for what I was trying to accomplish - was completely nerfed, for no other reason then just to nerf it.

I was hoping to do a whole 'Finding Abeir' thing, to allow older fans to at least accept the possibility that Abeir could have been there the whole time. I gave up on that, though, because it seems that both camps didn't want me to bother. In fact, its the second 'cross-edition' project I canceled due to lack of interest (the other being the Anchoromé/Larakond conversion map).

Anyhow, sorry to have dropped all of this into Brian's thread - hope either he or Krash has some input on what & why certain entries were dropped.



I've never bothered with trying to work out which of Brian's entries from his original GHotR made it into the published version as I never downloaded the original.

A few points: the illo bugbear re the warforged. Quite simply, the illo provided was a mistake. The illo requested by Eric Boyd was the following with the request that the human figure be cropped out:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_40.jpg

Not the most inspiring of pictures but there was almost zero art budget for this product and we were required to trawl through existing WotC/Paizo illustrations and find something that suited. We did the best we could in the circumstances.

As for your take on the shalarin, the reason why the Sea of Corynactis was stated as being located on Toril was that Eric Boyd was 'setting the stage' for a future Dungeon magazine submission he had in the works called "Eddies of the Shadowsea" dealing with the Fifth Passage and updating info from SoFS and introducing Dagon and his influences into the Inner Sea. The submission never got past the detailed outline stage and the demise of the magazine coupled with the advent of 4E saw that idea fall by the wayside.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

Aryalómë
Senior Scribe

USA
666 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2011 :  21:45:17  Show Profile Send Aryalómë a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello
I would like some answers (if possible) to questions I have about the Eladrin kingdom of Sarifal.
Firstly, Who are the Llewirr? Are they a new (in terms of being introduced) sub-race of Eladrin? Since Sarifal is half in Faerie, would that mean that these Eladrin are an ancidn race of fey?

What do the Llewirr look lke? Are they the same as the Eladrin in the 4e Player's Guide?

What are the buildings like in Sarifal?

Are there any other towns/cities that they live in on Gwynneth?

How do they fet along with other Eladrin and Elves?

Is it possible that you can give us a write up of. the Queen?

Are there any pther major people there?

Thanl you!

*Llewyrr
Go to Top of Page

Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe

545 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  17:24:07  Show Profile Send Mr_Miscellany a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Brian!

Regarding the Suzail Writ, can the testimony of a ghost—for example, the ghosts of War Wizards that lurk in the Royal Court and where War Wizards congregate in Suzail— be used in a jury trial of one’s peers?

Or, with the Writ not even half a century old, has this issue even come up yet? Or were those who crafted the Writ wise enough to define what precisely constitutes “one’s peers”, knowing full well that ghosts, elves, dragons and other intelligent beings existed in or near Cormyr?

Thank you in advance!

[edit: hope I'm asking this in the right scroll. I figured you'd be the correct designer to as since you wrote the Backdrop: Cormyr article in Dragon Magazine.]

Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 23 Mar 2011 20:13:04
Go to Top of Page

Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  18:52:25  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As Wooly and others have pointed out, one or two entries from the old PDF version didn't make the transition to the print version. But honestly, I cannot say why. Nothing about the Telamont Tanthul entry, for example, seems controversial so I assume it was just an editing oversight.

In total I'd estimate that the print version has around two to three hundred more timeline events than the old PDF version.

quote:
Originally posted by althen artren

Question Bryan, did your word document of the Grand History
have more entries in it than the published Grand History had?


Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
Go to Top of Page

Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  18:55:17  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interestingly, some of the pre-history that was cut from the print Grand History made it into the 4E FRCG.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I thought only his pre-history stuff was left-out (being homebrew), and even a good chunk of that remained in (the stuff Gray theorized, I believe).

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
Go to Top of Page

Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  18:57:23  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey man, lore is lore. And I absolutely love Serôs. I wish more people would run undersea campaigns.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

As for Seros - I think "it's one of those things" that only a dedicated fan of Realmslore would appreciate. It is lore for lore's sake, which I normally have no issue with either, but c'mon... how many people run underwater games?

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
Go to Top of Page

Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  19:00:28  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
WotC doesn't seem particularly interested in filling in the history gaps between 3rd and 4th edition, but should they ever reconsider I'd love to see an updated edition of the Grand History. And a leather-bound version would be hot.

Here is a link to a chronology that fills in *some* of the gap: http://community.wizards.com/gomeztoo/blog/2010/01/11/the_forgotten_realms_post-spellplague_timeline

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I'd love to see an expanded, leather-bound version with all that stuff put back in, and maybe a bit more.

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
Go to Top of Page

Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  19:04:38  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aaah yes. Those old XML files were used to compile the master timeline that eventually became the Grand History. Unfortunately they only exist as xml. They can be viewed as an HTML page if you have Internet Explorer (at the time firefox didn't exist, and netscape didn't support client-side xslt transformations).

http://www.hobgoblin.org/chronology/temporum/dwarves.htm

quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire

I apologize if this has been asked before. I stumbled over an old thread with a link to an XML created by yourself, Xoth Jakolor. Is this available in any other format? PDF, perhaps? I find that I am unable to scroll and copy/paste at the same time. Thanks!


Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
Go to Top of Page

althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2011 :  03:23:34  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay Brian, you just said something interesting about the LeShay that
just gave me a headache. They venerate primal spirits and archfey,
are there any realms examples of archfey, or are they a new spin on
something in 4ed?
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3348 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2011 :  04:45:43  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought Arch-Fey were like Titania and such?
Go to Top of Page

Rhewtani
Senior Scribe

USA
508 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2011 :  22:35:56  Show Profile  Send Rhewtani an AOL message Send Rhewtani a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok! Tell us about the deluge!
Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2012 :  05:05:04  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Those were the days when lore was king and mechanics took a backseat. We lived by the FRA one-line statline mantra. And it was good. May we see those days again.
Amen brother. And sooner than you may think.
Okay, Brian, you've made me curious... more than curious, in fact... we know from THO that Ed's been up to his rafters in new Realmslore projects lately, but the only ones we've heard anything about are the new comic book and (in title only) Ed Greenwood's Guide to Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Can you convince the powers-that-be to give us a taste of what's coming up? Please?

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 08 Feb 2012 05:06:43
Go to Top of Page

Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2012 :  18:00:21  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's also been announced at DDXP that WotC is releasing a Menzoberranzan sourcebook in August. As lead designer of the project, I can assure you that Menzoberranzan is an extremely lore/story heavy sourcebook. As the launch date gets a bit closer I'll be able to reveal more, through Design & Development articles on Wizards.com

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 17 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000