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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
 Posted - 04 May 2003 : 21:08:41
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I have a question conserning spellfire. (Ha bet you couldn't guess that ) I have a player you wishes to play a spellfire wielder and I have some questions about feats applying to spells like spell focus and such do they applie to spellfire.
I have been thinking of refusing theses in any event since spellfire itself is a rather beefed up thing.
I want to know any how so ...
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Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2003 : 08:21:40
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Warning, Spellfire is a very powerful gift!
Check in Magic of Faerun, everything is explained |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2003 : 14:43:05
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| I have looked there, but I can't find the answer to this certain question. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2003 : 04:19:15
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zemd: Boy is THAT an understatement.
Hymn: I would strongly urge you to not let a PC have this power. It is probably the single most powerful ability in the game. I'd bet 100 mithril pieces it will quickly unbalance your game to epic proportions.
If you can't find your answer in Magic of Faerun, it's probably not been covered, but you might try the WOTC website and search their archive. It's a shot, anyway. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2003 : 12:23:55
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Yes, yes, I have read the Spellfire noveles so I know what it's capable of. I haven't desided yet if he should be allowed to play with it. Perhaps I give him wildfire instead? Then I can atleast controll things. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2003 : 15:52:34
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| I do not have access to Magic of Faerun at this time, and I came across Spellfire in the Campaign Settings, but there is only a brief description. Everyone on here seems to think it would be absolutely devastating for someone to be able to use this ability. Can someone explain why? Also, I noted that priests/ priestesses of Mystra are sometimes granted this ability. Is it likely that the priest/ priestess of another god would have this ability, maybe be born with it? |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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unixx
Acolyte
12 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2003 : 18:51:12
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byrnweir to answer your question yes other priest/ess can have spellfire. Also, anybody can be born with spellfire not just clerics and mages. they just tend to benifit from it more. However, my true meaning for writting this is voice something. some of you may disagree with this but too bad. The way i see it, spellfire wielder is a feat, the Dm should be able to limit how many players have it at any one time but not be able to just up and state "no you can't use it because I feel it's too powerful and beyond my ablities to compensate for." And as for you people how are out there and bound to say something about that. yes, i understand it's powerful but there's other ways to get around it. Tell them it's very rare(which it is) and give them like a 5% chance on a d100 to be able to have it. this will take into account that part. I would modify this to a 10% chance if they are playing a cleric of mystra(but don't tell them that) matter of fact don't even tell them what the chance it to begin with. Anyways, to answer your question about the spell focus feat and other such feats, personally out of all the books i've read including magic of faerun you are correct the answer is not in there. But it's my opinion that spellfire is a supernatural ablitly and not actually much beyond that of weilding magic in its true form before taking shape into whatever spell you happen to be casting so i would say no. these feats can not be used in conjuction with spellfire, that i believe would break it. And as a Dm it's not really that hard to keep game balance when someone has spellfire. all that's required is a little bit of tweaking, i mean hell they have to be aware of the magical energies their attempting to draw in and make a roll vs. it. so look at that invisible mage....FIREBALL!!! just an example i'm sure your Dming prowess can come up with something more clever, i already have. But to restate my point to just blantly tell someone they can't take a feat(because you just say NO or you give them a reason) it just comes back to the fact that you probably shouldn't be Dming simply because if anyone in the group has to think around corners it's you the DM. And as i said i'm sure there are people who are out there that strongly will disagree with everything i wrote in this*restains from swearing* too bad. live with it and go on. ignore this message if you want all i know is that your gonna atleast read it once and see what i wrote. I hope it atleast makes you think. I've been Dming for 6 years for 3e a run a game every week still and a bunch for side games that i can't even begin to count, i've ran into just about every possible problem when it comes to PCs and feats. And i'll tell you right now, it's not as big of a problem as you would think, you just have to be smarter than the PCs which a monkey could do, i mean COME ON! you control the rest of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE you can stop anything they even think about trying in a heartbeat the only reason why they win is you let them. In anycase i hope i was able to answer your questions for you or at least give you sone ideas, just have fun and enjoy.
P.S.
the reason why everyon else is saying it's an extremely powerful gift is because the weilder can suck in spells aimed at him/her instead for taking the dmg. and hold with in themselves an amount of this "spellfire" (or contained spells levels) equal to their constitution, and then on command release an amount of it in basically a fireball type spell that inflicts 1d6 per level released, and as far as memory serves it can't be blocked by spell resistance or anything of the like, but it's very easy to take in too much and at that point a few things can happen. 1st, the weilder could start randomly discharging spell fire down to 1/2 their con. amount. 2nd, they could start taking dmg. for each level over their con. per round until it's released. and 3rd, they could make a fort. save or explode. my personal favorite for pesky PCs is the last one  HEHE. but that's all i can really tell you about it without going and getting the book from one of my freinds who has yet to return it. and even some of what i said up stairs is stuff that i've come up with. i mean where in wotc are they gonna have a Pc just blow up? hope you see at least a little of what i'm meaning in this, have fun with it. |
Unixx. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2003 : 03:44:36
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Wow unixx Dming for 6 years? Impressive...
I have been DMING for 16 years and I find your reasoning lacking in many aspects. First of all a DM has every right NOT to allow something if he thinks it is off balance. When you write something Like too bad if you disagree with me and *refrain from swearing* you appear ignorant. Please put a littel more tact in your posts. Any fool can DM. Don't rattle off the years you have been DMing and expect anyone to be impressed...
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2003 : 05:18:41
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Thank you Mournblade. That was pretty much what I was wanting to say. The only thing you left out is his innability to use paragraphs and proper punctuation. He doesn't sound like a foreign speaker, so I'm not giving him much of a benefit of the doubt.
Unixx, if you don't want people to disagree with you, don't post. That's the best way to avoid that. If you do post, then expect criticism. Don't act like yours is the only right way in the world. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2003 : 15:56:13
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Brynweir said -
quote:
I do not have access to Magic of Faerun at this time, and I came across Spellfire in the Campaign Settings, but there is only a brief description. Everyone on here seems to think it would be absolutely devastating for someone to be able to use this ability. Can someone explain why? Also, I noted that priests/ priestesses of Mystra are sometimes granted this ability. Is it likely that the priest/ priestess of another god would have this ability, maybe be born with it?
I'm at work at the moment so I can't check MoF, but I found some information on the Candlekeep site proper that maybe able to help you. It's located here. It's a download concerning the spellfire wielder Shandril, and some information about spellfire from 2e. I hope it helps until I can get home and check my books.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2003 : 20:21:55
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| Thank you all for your help. Sage of Perth, your file on Shandril was especially helpful. Any further information would also be greatly appreciated. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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unixx
Acolyte
12 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2003 : 21:45:20
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| there's a difference in being ignorant and just not caring what other people have to say. I expected critisim hence why i put that in there. and i don't care about how long you've been dming and i wasn't trying to impress anyone. all it was, was giving you and idea that i do know what i'm talking about and not some person just rattling off stuff that they really don't know about. and as far as having things that people don't ever use i still stand by my desicion, i don't believe it's right to do that, if someone wants to try something let them, or atleast give them a chance to be able to. as far as tact i don't care, i've never been good with subtlity and yes i am american and my grammar is a trosous along with my spelling. and no i strongly disagree with you not any fool can Dm. any fool can attempt it but it is deffinitly not for some people, just as role-playing in general is not for some people. and unfortunately i have met some of them as i'm sure you have. and as i said before, if you can't figure out ways to balance spellfire(for example) then you probably shouldn't be Dming. there really is no reason to not allow anything, restrict ok i can understand that but not just ban. that's all i really have to say about that. |
Unixx. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2003 : 22:12:04
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quote:
Originally posted by unixx
there's a difference in being ignorant and just not caring what other people have to say. I expected critisim hence why i put that in there. and i don't care about how long you've been dming and i wasn't trying to impress anyone. all it was, was giving you and idea that i do know what i'm talking about and not some person just rattling off stuff that they really don't know about. and as far as having things that people don't ever use i still stand by my desicion, i don't believe it's right to do that, if someone wants to try something let them, or atleast give them a chance to be able to. as far as tact i don't care, i've never been good with subtlity and yes i am american and my grammar is a trosous along with my spelling. and no i strongly disagree with you not any fool can Dm. any fool can attempt it but it is deffinitly not for some people, just as role-playing in general is not for some people. and unfortunately i have met some of them as i'm sure you have. and as i said before, if you can't figure out ways to balance spellfire(for example) then you probably shouldn't be Dming. there really is no reason to not allow anything, restrict ok i can understand that but not just ban. that's all i really have to say about that.
Don't worry unixx when you get a feel for all the POORLY designed options that SOME game designers make you will understand what I was saying. Just becasue something is published does not make it balanced, logical, or even a good idea. Being a good DM also involves breaking down items into Raw statistics. Some things put out by game designers just do not fit. I am not saying Spellfire doesn't fit, I allow it, but there are MANY MANY MANY things I just won't allow. You probably haven't come across them because you may not have access to alot of the publications from 1st or 2nd ed, or fully understand the issues involved in game balance. When you understand Game balance, You will learn how you want your game to tilt, either PRO player or Anti player (my game is tilted in players favour). ONce you learn game balance you will be able to see what should be eliminated and what should be allowed. If you allow everything that is GREAT!!! But you will have to be careful to tweak them or your game balance will shoot off like stars in multiple directions.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
Edited by - Mournblade on 27 May 2003 22:14:37 |
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Cult_Leader
Learned Scribe
USA
337 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2003 : 22:40:24
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Spell Fire is far from being that powerful. Spell Fire is also not going to unbalance your game. For the following reasons. Sure said char might be able to soak up magic thats directed at him etc, but that dose not mean anything when it comes to the guy who has no magic but gets supernatrual abilities of "F**k" you up. There are many ways to get around spell fire. Im sorry to have to say this but, if you have been a GM for more then three years long then you should know there are many many ways to get around spell fire. On top of that its not going to be a problem at all for a forsaker who uses a great sword made out of adamantine (+4 non-magic enhancement). A normal well placed back stab is just another one of many many ways to toy with a Spell Fire weilder. Im just going to sit back, point, and laugh at anyone who thinks that it is over powerful. Think about it. Oh look at that? Oh did someone say a Cleric of Gond.... Ok I will make a Riffle and give it to said fighter.... Ok that fighter is damn sure to be able to off someone with Spell Fire, that is if the said riffle works.
Anyone who uses shadow magic knows about powerful. To bad shadow magic cant be soaked up huh? |
"Madness you say! Do you fear me? Are you afraid of what I might do, of what I might say? What a fascinating reaction. Don't you find it somewhat encumbering?"
Piddles assumes a deep and resonant voice. "Space...the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship...Garou. It's mission: to slay Wyrm creatures where they live and breed. To accumulate more Garou than the world's entire population. To produce metis like no one has before." - Piddles
"Aren't you people supposed to be doing something? Like, entertaining me, the fascist wizard?" - InleRah
I have the passwords to the minds of everyone and the cheat codes to the universe - Me |
Edited by - Cult_Leader on 27 May 2003 22:49:21 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2003 : 23:18:12
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Let's have some context. Spellfire is a freak magical occurrence in the ecology of the Weave; a plot device written for the novel Spellfire. 'Popular demand' or whatever other reason led it to be written up in game rules in FR7 and Polyhedron and Heroes' Lorebook so people could have Shandril Shessair or, implicitly, other spellfire wielders in their campaigns. But 3E has this philosophy that any power available to any character should be a choice for PCs, so they had Ed write a sidebar saying 'the idea that spellfire crops up once in each generation isn't the whole truth' and flattened spellfire into another option for PCs, quite out of its original context, and balanced (more or less -- people argue both ways) with other feats and prestige classes.
Now, of course you can have spellfire in your campaign as more than a 'cool power' to shop for, although the rules don't make it the overwhelming force it ought to be. But if you do any justice to the Shandril's Saga novels, which are the reason to be interested in Spellfire in the first place and still the novels that best show what the Realms is like, your spellfire-using character probably won't have much fun.
There's relevant stuff on wizards.com:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/shandril
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/heroesofspellfire
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2003 : 00:21:34
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You bring up excellent points faraer. THat is always something that troubled me. The Spellfire in Magic of Faerun IS balanced, and it is REALLY a power that is SPECIAL. I was disappointed they put that in the book, but I have been trying to explain it as Shandril having the SPELLFIRE, and the Spellfire as listed is a LESSER version. None of my players even want it, so it is not an issue, but I like to have things explained in my Mileu.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2003 : 07:26:26
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It seems as though Spellfire as a power or ability is at best a bag of mixed results. There are both arguements for it's use and there are points against Spellfire's usage.
Mournblade, you bring up an interesting point about your players not wanting it. It seems that many players have different notions about what Spellfire means to them. While I agree that the mechanics of Spellfire in MoF is balanced, it seems to be less than I what I expected Spellfire to be. I was never to fond of the 2e mechanics of Spellfire, as it had some problems.
After re-reading Shandril's Saga again in March, I felt as though there had been some fundamental changes in the books as to the in which spellfire worked. At the time I tried to create my own spellfire system, but stopped after several weeks, because other projects took up my time.
Maybe I should dust off the drafts and get back to work.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2003 : 01:51:07
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unixx quote [as far as tact i don't care, i've never been good with subtlity and yes i am american and my grammar is a trosous along with my spelling.]
I was offended that you would imply being American allows you an excuse for poor grammar and spelling. However, I have to agree that not any "fool" can DM. I know personally, though I do not consider myself a fool, I never had the confidence to be in charge of a game. I much prefer to "hide" behind my character.
I also agree that a DM has to take into consideration how he/she wants the game to go (as far as balance), as well as the group that is participating. There are certain people that I have campaigned with in the past that would try to push the DM just to see what they could get away with before the DM told them no. In the end it made the game undesirable for the rest of us. If standards are not set at the beginning of an adventure then things can quickly get out of hand. Everything should not be allowed just because it exists. I believe one of the abilities granted to all DMs is SMITE!
Sage of Perth, I would be interested in taking a look at your spellfire system if you get a chance to finish. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2003 : 07:41:05
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I would be glad to email it to you Brynweir as soon as it is finished. I found the dusty old notebook that had my notes, stats and mechanics for my modified Spellfire system, so I am currently revising it, and adding some things that I have since thought of since the last time I looked at it.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2003 : 00:38:24
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| Very generous of you. Thanks. That would be great! |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2003 : 09:39:40
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Brynweir, I should have everything cleaned up by the end of next week. There are just a few problems clarifying some of the rulings about the Spellfire system that need to be rewritten so people other than me, can understand my notes  .
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Spellfire
