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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2008 :  22:34:37  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Something about Sharess tells me she is more of the "ahhhh cute and cuddly" type of love while Sune is more of the "true love"

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Ardashir
Senior Scribe

USA
544 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2008 :  00:11:36  Show Profile  Visit Ardashir's Homepage Send Ardashir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's only one way to know who's better. Try them both out.

Here I am, lady goddesses, fanning myself with a giant feather...
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2008 :  15:30:47  Show Profile  Visit Ionik Knight's Homepage Send Ionik Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with most of the other replies. Sune is the goddess of Love and Beauty, while Sharress is the goddess of Pleasure and Hedonism.

This makes Sune the winner in this poll.

Ionik Knight

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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe

USA
387 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2008 :  20:59:25  Show Profile  Visit Nerfed2Hell's Homepage Send Nerfed2Hell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sune is clearly the goddess of love... whereas Sharess is the goddess of making love. That's not to say Sune doesn't condone or even encourage the making love thing, but she's got a more pure approach to love (love for love's sake, beauty is truth, and all that jazz) and Sharess is all about enjoying the sensual pleasures --many of which may crossover with Sune's sphere of influence.

They should just hook up already... its a far more likely matchup than Tyr trying to court Sune.

Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile.
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2008 :  21:36:07  Show Profile  Visit Ionik Knight's Homepage Send Ionik Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell

Sune is clearly the goddess of love... whereas Sharess is the goddess of making love. That's not to say Sune doesn't condone or even encourage the making love thing, but she's got a more pure approach to love (love for love's sake, beauty is truth, and all that jazz) and Sharess is all about enjoying the sensual pleasures --many of which may crossover with Sune's sphere of influence.

They should just hook up already... its a far more likely matchup than Tyr trying to court Sune.


Amen brother, in fact I think Tyr should go back to Asgard...he was much more hip when he was chilling with Thor and the All Father.

Ionik Knight

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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe

USA
387 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2008 :  22:21:16  Show Profile  Visit Nerfed2Hell's Homepage Send Nerfed2Hell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't mind Tyr in the Realms... even like him. But sometimes he's treated poorly.

Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile.
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see
Learned Scribe

191 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2008 :  03:40:22  Show Profile Send see a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sune? Sharess? Bah!

Sharindlar.

(Wait, what do you mean, she doesn't have a beard anymore? Is nothing sacred?)
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe

688 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2008 :  11:37:13  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted the neutral option because they seem very different sorts of love goddesses to me! But I vote Sharess cause I like cats more than people. I'll take bitchy cat maybe i'll let you pet me cat love over the love of a person any day!
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe

USA
418 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2008 :  17:12:29  Show Profile  Visit dwarvenranger's Homepage Send dwarvenranger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Forget the stupid cats. Redhead wins any day. Go Sune.

If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
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USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2008 :  20:42:02  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger

Forget the stupid cats.



No. Cats are a major reason why I like Sharess.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe

USA
418 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2008 :  21:30:50  Show Profile  Visit dwarvenranger's Homepage Send dwarvenranger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger

Forget the stupid cats.



No. Cats are a major reason why I like Sharess.



Well, you're a Lady so I suppose that's to be expected

If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.

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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2008 :  21:42:15  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Has to agree with Rino here. :) And I'm not female but I agree with Rino because I venerate Bastet, thus Sharess, in real life. :)

And if you think cats are bipolar, you have no idea what their patron is like. Giggle.

quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger

Forget the stupid cats.



No. Cats are a major reason why I like Sharess.


For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Edited by - Kuje on 18 Dec 2008 21:42:28
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31696 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2008 :  23:05:49  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger

Forget the stupid cats.



No. Cats are a major reason why I like Sharess.

As do I.

In fact, there aren't any surprises among my gaming group when Sharess pops up in my campaigns. They know how much I value her domain/portfolios in both my real-life dealings and in the Realms.

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Edited by - The Sage on 18 Dec 2008 23:06:39
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belgarathmth
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USA
16 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2009 :  22:43:19  Show Profile  Visit belgarathmth's Homepage Send belgarathmth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
People are forgetting some important facts:

1) Sune rescued Sharess from Shar during the Time of Troubles. That's how she got her name changed from Bast. And that makes Sharess a sub-deity to Sune, IMO, so there is no real need to contrast them or choose between them. Sharess made an eternal divine alliance with Sune, Llira, and Milil after this important rescue. (See Sharess' Wiki)

2)On Sharess' portfolio: people keep automatically associating 'hedonism' and 'pleasure' with 'sex'. Hedonism and pleasure include much more than that. Eating, drinking, and being surrounded by comfortable materials (clothing and furniture - leather, silk, beautiful art and colors) i.e. everything gold can buy, including gold itself, come to mind. It's no accident that Sune (or was it Llira?) took over Waukeen's portfolio when she was thought dead.

If you want to really understand Sharess, just think of cats. Sure, they enjoy cuddling and sex, and they seek it out, but they also enjoy food and sleeping, probably even more than sex. A fat, sleeping cat is a happy cat.

I really think Sharess' true holy symbol should be a silouhette of a cat, not red lips.

"Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31518 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2009 :  23:53:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by belgarathmth

It's no accident that Sune (or was it Llira?) took over Waukeen's portfolio when she was thought dead.


Correction: Waukeen handed her portfolios to Lliira. She did so voluntarily, as part of a plot to circumvent Ao and return to the Outer Planes, during the Time of Troubles.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31696 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2009 :  01:54:19  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by belgarathmth

It's no accident that Sune (or was it Llira?) took over Waukeen's portfolio when she was thought dead.


Correction: Waukeen handed her portfolios to Lliira. She did so voluntarily, as part of a plot to circumvent Ao and return to the Outer Planes, during the Time of Troubles.
And Lliira, during the Time of Troubles, initially promised to look after Waukeen's portfolios and guard her church. But after the Lliira failed to find any sign of Waukeen following the ToT, she was forced to assume control of Waukeen's church -- to prevent it from disintegrating further. She did so in the hope of preserving Waukeen's place and power... until the return of the Merchants' Friend.

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Janav
Seeker

20 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2009 :  09:34:34  Show Profile  Visit Janav's Homepage Send Janav a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If i was made to make a choice between the two, it'd be Sharess. The mindset suits me much more then how Sunites and Sune have been depicted in various FR sources. Here follows a spoiler from the "Cleric Quintet" by R.A Salvatore. Highlight to read it.

----SPOILER-------

This discussion brings to mind the particularly annoying scene between Danica Maupoissant and Hiistra following her transformation to vampirism where she is "lectured" by Danica about what (according to the monk) constitutes love and how she, as a Sunite priestess, should love. This comes across as a quite rigid limitation even if the sentiment is correct. Excluding the pursuit of purely slaking physical lust makes Sune a more rigid deity with a bit too strict view upon the sex/love relationship. This is of course based on 'Danica's perceptions of it, which may or may not be entirely correct. And of course, my opinions ;)

----SPOILER------


As for the OP question, i'd Sune is the deity of love-love. Sharess is the deity of hedonism and lust which can be expressed in a myriad of different ways, one of these ways (but far from the only one) being the pursuit of purely sexual pleasure.

Edited by - Janav on 07 Jun 2009 10:38:31
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
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USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2009 :  01:26:51  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Having read the Cleric Quintet, I don't think those books really got Sune's dogma--I distinctly recall Sune being described as a goddess who focuses on lust but not love, which runs contrary to what all the other sources have said about her.

That being said, the physical act of love-making is definitely valued by the goddess and her priesthood as well.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Misc.
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2009 :  23:06:55  Show Profile  Visit Misc.'s Homepage Send Misc. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Passion was, in third, one of Sune's portfolios. That would entail physical love and lust in it, among other things as well.
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Teneck
Learned Scribe

USA
133 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2009 :  23:38:18  Show Profile  Visit Teneck's Homepage Send Teneck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My vote is TYMORA...any time there is love or lust involved with me there is a wee amount of luck present.

"Go ahead...Sleep in the church...the vampires can't get ya in the church" Any DM...any time.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
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Posted - 18 Jun 2009 :  01:02:26  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Too bad that wasn't also the case for poor ol' Doust.

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2011 :  21:33:18  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Janav

If i was made to make a choice between the two, it'd be Sharess. The mindset suits me much more then how Sunites and Sune have been depicted in various FR sources. Here follows a spoiler from the "Cleric Quintet" by R.A Salvatore. Highlight to read it.

----SPOILER-------

This discussion brings to mind the particularly annoying scene between Danica Maupoissant and Hiistra following her transformation to vampirism where she is "lectured" by Danica about what (according to the monk) constitutes love and how she, as a Sunite priestess, should love. This comes across as a quite rigid limitation even if the sentiment is correct. Excluding the pursuit of purely slaking physical lust makes Sune a more rigid deity with a bit too strict view upon the sex/love relationship. This is of course based on 'Danica's perceptions of it, which may or may not be entirely correct. And of course, my opinions ;)

----SPOILER------


As for the OP question, i'd Sune is the deity of love-love. Sharess is the deity of hedonism and lust which can be expressed in a myriad of different ways, one of these ways (but far from the only one) being the pursuit of purely sexual pleasure.



Nice touch with the light colored font

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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
473 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2011 :  23:37:58  Show Profile  Visit Old Man Harpell's Homepage Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger

Forget the stupid cats.



No. Cats are a major reason why I like Sharess.

As do I.

In fact, there aren't any surprises among my gaming group when Sharess pops up in my campaigns. They know how much I value her domain/portfolios in both my real-life dealings and in the Realms.



I'll have to agree with this as well. Of course, I'm married to a redheaded cat-lover, so I get the best of both worlds automatically - even if I personally don't care for cats all that much.

So yeah...Sharess.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6684 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2011 :  00:33:31  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The consensus about Sharess in this scroll is largely consistent; we all seem to agree on a fairly good idea about how and why people worship Sharess, quibbling over inconsequential details like cats.

What interests me most here is our treatment of Sune. We seem to automatically assume that our quaint "North American" social normatives should apply throughout the Realms and the Faerūnian deities. There is no strict requirement for Sune to favour only monogamous romance; there is no reason for Sune to require all love leads to sex. I think it would be ignorant to assume a uniformly invariant system of social values blanketed every group and culture throughout all of Faerūn; there may be (probably are) some local churches of Sune who teach values about friendship, romance, love, and sex which are entirely incompatible with our own.

Our society is fundamentally structured on the patriarchal decrees of a powerful bronze-age sky god ... who would fill that role in the Realms? Ao? Tyr? Amaunothander? None of them should have any interest at all in governing Sune's portfolio.

[/Ayrik]
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belgarathmth
Seeker

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2011 :  01:36:08  Show Profile  Visit belgarathmth's Homepage Send belgarathmth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, talk about thread necromancy!

I had totally forgotten I ever posted about this until it suddenly showed up in my email - years after the fact?

If you want us cat-lovers to "forget about the stupid cats", then give us our own blasted cat deity!

Cats are worthy of worship and love and emulation, or at least to me they are, and there are a lot of us out here!

If the Forgotten Realms authors want to co-opt legitimate real-life deities like Bastet, they had better the heck get the spirit of the deity right, in my opinion. Bastet is the goddess of cats and has the cat in "Egyptian pose" or the cat-headed woman as her avatars and holy symbols.

And for the dog-lovers out there, they have Anubis, the jackal-headed guardian of the afterlife, who resembles Helm as far as real-life portfolios vis a vis Forgotten Realms portfolios. (Talk about dogs vs. cats - Helm vis a vis Mystra comes to mind!)

To me, Sharess is all about cat-nature, or else she is about nothing, other than maybe adolescent foolishness about sex. (Come on, Chantea has the fertility-goddess thing covered, and if you just have to have a goddess of lustful "love", Sune is all you need.

"Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as deities. Cats have never forgotten this (!)"

"Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this."
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