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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
 Posted - 19 May 2007 : 05:37:04
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
Jergal could be a good match as well. The only thing holding his archivists back is that they can't go graverobbing for their knowledge because he is a protector of proper burial.
True, but they definitely could petition various other faiths for their records pertaining to such tombs. |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 09:11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Daviot
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
Jergal could be a good match as well. The only thing holding his archivists back is that they can't go graverobbing for their knowledge because he is a protector of proper burial.
True, but they definitely could petition various other faiths for their records pertaining to such tombs.
That's true, though they'd probably have to consort with members of evil faiths and bargain for such secrets. Most people don't just give away ancient scrolls of divine knowledge. That said, it's certainly not impossible. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 11:33:59
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| There's also the fact of, "I didn't steal this from a tomb, but I know you did". Would a follower of Jergal found to be working with graverobbers be looked upon well? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 13:46:21
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| I'd have to do more research into the clergy of Jergal. Is there even an active church? |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
Edited by - EytanBernstein on 19 May 2007 13:46:55 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 15:09:44
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
I'd have to do more research into the clergy of Jergal. Is there even an active church?
"Jergal has only a handful of living worshipers, but it is believed several score of his priests still survive as mummies and greater mummies in long-sealed tombs," Powers & Pantheons.
He also has a few cults in Thay and the Border Kingdoms. Same book but under Major Centers of Worship. The Spellbound box set has stats for the female leader of the temple in Thay. Morasha, the ancient Netherese female necro in the High Moor, is one of his followers according to Lost Empires.
Other then those two, I couldn't find any more NPC's that are listed as his clergy. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 19 May 2007 15:11:32 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 16:49:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
I'd have to do more research into the clergy of Jergal. Is there even an active church?
"Jergal has only a handful of living worshipers, but it is believed several score of his priests still survive as mummies and greater mummies in long-sealed tombs," Powers & Pantheons.
He also has a few cults in Thay and the Border Kingdoms. Same book but under Major Centers of Worship. The Spellbound box set has stats for the female leader of the temple in Thay. Morasha, the ancient Netherese female necro in the High Moor, is one of his followers according to Lost Empires.
Other then those two, I couldn't find any more NPC's that are listed as his clergy.
A few extra tidbits on the clergy of Jergal --
Faiths & Pantheons, on pg. 99, notes "Only in Thay, where death is a daily fact of life, has Jergal's church undergone a small renaissance."
And Powers & Pantheons notes that scattered cultists are operating in Kelemvor's Godswalk Keep, a church located in the Barony of the Great Oak in the Border Kingdoms.
The Crypt of Imminent Death in Bezantur is a major center of Jergal's worship, as noted in P&P.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 19:54:48
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| Given his incredible prominence in ages past, I would have been surprised if his worship had completely disappeared. It might be interesting to develop more about it in a future project. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2007 : 01:11:46
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
Given his incredible prominence in ages past, I would have been surprised if his worship had completely disappeared. It might be interesting to develop more about it in a future project.
Exxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcellent!  |
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monch9
Seeker
Poland
67 Posts |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2007 : 10:48:48
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| Hmm... I don't know who writes the little introductions, but they got the hexblade's book wrong. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2007 : 11:47:52
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*laughs*
bug WoTC and demand to know whom the jerk is :P |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 07:44:02
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
Hmm... I don't know who writes the little introductions, but they got the hexblade's book wrong.
That doesnt suprise me the Corymyr: The Tearing of the Weave article is still up 
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20070321a |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 11:20:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Sian
*laughs*
bug WoTC and demand to know whom the jerk is :P
Feel free to mention it to the people at the website. Small errors are bound to creep in, but I can see how it can be annoying. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
Edited by - EytanBernstein on 24 May 2007 11:40:14 |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 05:43:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Sian
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606
interesting
Hmm I cant get into it my browser keeps telling me the connection timed out |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 20:25:51
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First off, I really enjoyed the fact that you used both followers of Marthmmor Duin and a Netherese chronomancer in part of the factotum article, and I also enjoyed the Sembia "adventurer's club" as well. One of my favorite parts of the Realms is that adventurers are part of the social order of the Realms, so things like this popping up make perfect sense and reinforce that concept. Really good work on the background material.
I do wish that it had been a bit more "factotums need a patron deity" than simply saying that a god has to be involved somehow. I am glad that you did clarify that it wasn't some personal ability of the individual factotum, and this certainly isn't any shortcoming on your part Eytan, but I worry even a little "light through the door" (i.e. see factotums don't need a patron god, neither does my druid/cleric/paladin, what have you, I can do what I like and some god will grant me spells as long as I'm the right class). I'll admit, I'm probably nitpicking this a bit more that I normally would though, since, even though I like the background material, I still don't like factotums (just having a hard time warming up to the class).
I really liked your approach to spell theives, and it reminded me of when the esteemed George Krashos mentions trying to keep Realmslore "inclusive rather than exclusive." By tying this to godsblood, you can definately say that there has been an increase in spell theives since the Time of Troubles, but this also doesn't rule out spell theives that might have originated from other incidents of a god's blood having been spilled, or even harvested (yes, I'll admit it, this got the gears turning to use some of the material in Monte Cook's Requiem for a God sourcebook as well).
Excellent Realmslore additions Eytan, sorry for the slight criticism. |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 20:33:13
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| It's quite alright KnightErrantJR. Not every comment has to be sunshine and roses. I am dealing with every class, but just like everyone else, I don't like every class equally. In order to work some classes into the Realms, its necessary to do think hard about how to work them into the cosmology and magical systems in place. We don't want the classes to be too narrow in their origins, but we also don't want an "anything goes" frame of mind. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
Edited by - EytanBernstein on 06 Jun 2007 20:34:29 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 22:15:24
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| Oh, and its definately as I said, the Realmslore aspects were great, and I look forward to dropping these into a campaign sometime. You are correct, not every new class is created equal, and as much as I'm interested in seeing what you do with it, its probably going to take a miracle to change my opinion on Incarnum (not that its your job to sell the system to me). |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 06:19:46
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Hello-
I must admit I only skimmed the factotums, and was doing the same witn the Spellthieves - when I saw Shaundakul's name! Whoa - put on the brakes and go back to Go! :) I went back and read the whole section on the Spellthieves - which I was not too familiar with in any case - and loved what you did! I especially like knowing that you did your ToT homework and included Shaundakul in the list! I may have to work this into one of my future Shaundakul articles for the Compendium!
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 11:36:46
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Oh, and its definately as I said, the Realmslore aspects were great, and I look forward to dropping these into a campaign sometime. You are correct, not every new class is created equal, and as much as I'm interested in seeing what you do with it, its probably going to take a miracle to change my opinion on Incarnum (not that its your job to sell the system to me).
Incarnum is a big challenge, probably the biggest in terms of adaptation. We'll have to wait and see how it goes. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 11:37:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
Hello-
I must admit I only skimmed the factotums, and was doing the same witn the Spellthieves - when I saw Shaundakul's name! Whoa - put on the brakes and go back to Go! :) I went back and read the whole section on the Spellthieves - which I was not too familiar with in any case - and loved what you did! I especially like knowing that you did your ToT homework and included Shaundakul in the list! I may have to work this into one of my future Shaundakul articles for the Compendium!
Dhomal
I scrounged for every ToT reference to a god I could find. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 20:42:43
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I must agree with KEJR on the factotum piece with requiring a patron deity (though I don't have dungeonscape and haven't even seen the class). I cringed when I read that they had divine abilities without a patron. I can see others trying to do this with archivists in the realms, but its better that if they're divine in any way they pick a patron.
>>Incarnum is a big challenge, probably the biggest in terms of adaptation. We'll have to wait >>and see how it goes.
I'll upfront say all I've done is read the rules for this so far. I've yet to playtest them. I'm not so averse to them as much as I am the Tome of Magic classes (though I am extremely intrigued by the class that uses vestiges as a concept, it needs some game balance write up).
As a result, I've kind of thought a little bit on this, and if it helps, so much the better.
Its written up that there is a Temple of the Sapphire Eidolon in the remote Uthangol mountains of the Eastern Shaar. The Sapphire Hierarchs who inhabit it are devoted to law. Near where their temple is located is Shaundalar, center of the short-lived Theocracy of Eltabranar which was devoted to Myrkul and formed with the aid of the Knights of Myrkul and the demon lord Eltab. Were the Sapphire Hierarchs forced into the Uthangol mountains when their other temples were destroyed in Shaundalar? Was Shaundalar an area where incarnum based magics were being discovered (the wild areas seem perfect for totemists, and incarnates and soulborn could be the civilized groups)? The Sapphire Hierarchs are all clerics as well, so who are their patrons? Helm? Hoar? Tyr? Savras? These would all seem to work with their philosophies (Savras is a bit of a stretch, but he is stronger in the south). Since they stand opposed to beings that try to break the natural laws or deny their fates (such as undeath), it would stand that they definitely wouldn't have liked Myrkul's theocracy. There might even be some totemists/clerics worshipping Nobanion. This could definitely be an interesting place, with possibly influence from multiple deities.
As to the base casters themselves, incarnates and totemists would both fit in well among the Rashemi witches. Perhaps this is even where Rashemi picked up the idea of wearing masks was due to totemists. The idea of using the power of spirits to perform magic just seems to fit this country. I can see soulborn there as well, but I believe that they would be specifically found amongst the male population (and seen as handi-capped soulmelders compared to the witches).
Many of the abilities of incarnates show up as a glowing, but insubstantial whatnot on a characters arm, face, etc... I can see some incarnates referring to these as "soul-mantles" which might have been confused by other people as "spell mantles". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 21:57:25
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I must agree with KEJR on the factotum piece with requiring a patron deity (though I don't have dungeonscape and haven't even seen the class). I cringed when I read that they had divine abilities without a patron. I can see others trying to do this with archivists in the realms, but its better that if they're divine in any way they pick a patron.
Factotums don't get to do major things with divine magic, like casting Heal or Raise Dead or anything like that, but they do get to heal a little and turn undead if they spend their inspriration points in that manner. I get that part of the "flavor" of the factotum is that they carry around all of these holy symbols and lucky charms and that their "divine ability" is really just them remembering that sometimes clerics do this is a given situation, and if they have inspiration points, that happens to work, but I guess I'm a pain when it comes to even minor erosions of established concepts, not because they are themselves an issue, but because someone else might come along and push the boundary even further along.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 22:02:25
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As far as Incarnum goes, I never really got around to finding a home for it in my campaigns because it felt so alien to how my campaign works, and I didn't like the completely new set of terminology and ways of doing things. That having been said, when I was looking into it, I thought that Ra-Khati would be a good origin point for Incarnum, and from there it might have spread to Khazari, what is now Koumira, Solon, and into some of the lesser known, "eastern edge" lands, like Murghom.
And as far as killing two birds with one stone, if Ra-Khati was mentioned, the leader of that hidden nation could be given an alternate title other than the Dhali Llama . . . (which has always been about as distracting to me as if one of the faiths of Faerun had someone refered to as the Pope as its leader). |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 22:17:26
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Got sidetracked.
I can see totemists tied to the Church of Malar as well as other nature deities.
I can see there being soulcasters (the prestige class) in Rashemen as well. The study of soul magic and wizardry would seem to fit the witches.
If the idea behind the Theocracy of Eltabranar seems to float well, then the area would at least be aware of the use of incarnum. A country devoted to Myrkul and familiar with incarnum just screams that it would be the area where the necrocarnists came from. In fact, perhaps some of the Knights of Myrkul were soulborn/necrocarnates and/or incarnate/necrocarnates.
With the great rift so near to this area, it would only make sense that they might have learned something of this art as well. Thus, some of the gold dwarves might be ironforge soulmasters.
At that temple we were talking about earlier, I can see some warrior types getting into the incandescent champion, incarnum blade, or even witchborn binder classes. The witchborn binder seems to me a very "Hoar"'ish prestige class.
Umbral disciples would obviously be an interesting addition to the churches of Mask and Shar.
Ok, hopefully this sparked some ideas that might help if you're still writing the article. Feel free to use any of it, it'd just be interesting to see what twist you'd put on things.
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 22:33:42
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| I agree with the idea that divine magic requires a patron. In this one specific instance, I had to go against the grain, simply due to the nature of the factotum class. Making them choose a patron really goes against the entire idea of the class. They are drawing on the power of the gods, but not on any one particular god. In this way, they are more like ur-priests (or even bards) than clerics. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 22:39:39
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| I get that, and I was trying (and most likely not succeeding) in my post above to say that I can kind of see that since is not fully divine magic, just "sort of," that its not quite like saying, for example, archivists don't need a divine patron. I've just butted heads with too many people that for some reason want divine magic in the Forgotten Realms to work like "core" divine magic. |
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monch9
Seeker
Poland
67 Posts |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
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New WotC column on FR site - "Class Chronicles"
