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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2007 :  04:37:21  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello, all. This time Ed tackles a heavy-duty Realmslore question from Sanishiver: “Hello THO/Ed,Awhile back you helped me with a very useful response on what would happen if a bubble of heavy magic were to burst forth in Cormyr.
I’d like to supplement that question/answer with a follow up, also for the aid of my Realms Campaign.

Suppose there exists a modified ‘layer’ of magic all through Cormyr that is somewhat like a mythal, but vastly larger in size and much, much more subtle in effect (or better described as the Weave all throughout Cormyr, but modified long ago by Giants and/or Dragons in certain ways), where this layer of magic allowed an ancient being like The Devil Dragon to snatch any War Wizard into her maw that used a Teleport spell in the opening stages of the War, and to this day prevents dragons within its confines from succumbing to Rage whenever the King Killer star shines in the night sky.

Now suppose rumor surfaces amongst dragons and their ilk of the impending approach of the King Killer star in current-day Faerűn, with a second rumor that the old Realm of Thauglamorious will protect any dragon in its confines from the star’s effects, thanks in part to a freak occurrence of heavy magic bursting forth in Cormyr, that has rejuvenated the last great quasi-mythal (for lack of a better term) known to Dragon Kin in the Realms.

Now suppose some of these dragons decide to up and relocate themselves (many with their hoards!) to Cormyr to ride out the Rage, and/or seek out Thaug’s lair in the hope they’ll to gain control of the quasi-mythal.

....with all this supposed, and keeping in mind Cormyr is still dealing with the after-effects of the Heavy Magic discharge, I have three general questions:

1) How might Cormyr respond if 10-20 such dragons relocated to Cormyr from all over the Realms over a short time –say 1 to 2 months?

2) How might you (if you were the DM) drive your Epic Level players batty....er, rather, ‘make things interesting’ for them (with one of them a fledgling Baron of the Stonelands) if Cormyr gave *the players* the job of sorting out lair locations and imposing Cormyrean law (such as it is) upon any dragons found in the Realm?

3) Are their Draconic rules of behaviour ala the Feint of Honor Illiphar and Thauglamorious abided by that might govern the ways in which these 10 - 20 Dragons seek to influence Cormyr and its environs as they compete with each other for lair locations and in their efforts to unearth lore about the Quasi-Mythal?

As always, thank you in advance for your help and advice, for dropping hints here at the ‘Keep that turned me on to this campaign idea, and for sharing so much more of the Realms with us.
J. Grenemyer”
Whew! Ed replies:



Accepting your suppositions, I respond thus:
1. If your campaign is set pre-ELMINSTER’S DAUGHTER, or has taken a different route through imagined Realms history [[THO interjection: All scribes please note: see how easy it is to veer aside from what you might not want, of the upcoming 4e Realms?]], Vangerdahast will view these “invasions” as dragons breaking the founding treaties of Cormyr, and will fear for the safety of the human kingdom, and become very, very upset indeed.
He will assign some of the War Wizards to using magic to (try to) “stay unseen” by these “invading” dragons, and spy on them; some senior War Wizards (Laspeera) to “calling in favours” by contacting Elminster, Dove, and other Chosen to aid him in “defending” Cormyr; they will agree to turning aside (and slaying if need be) dragons who attack castles and major cities, but will not agree to aid him in hunting down and slaying dragons just to get them out of Cormyr; and the other War Wizards he will train and deploy in or near strategic points (all major cities, High Horn, Thunder Pass, Jester’s Green) in organized “dragonfighting” units (equipped with spells and magic items intended to be able to blast any dragon out of the sky, and provide shielding for self and civilians and ground targets against dragonbreath attacks).
If your campaign is post-ELMINSTER’S DAUGHTER, Vangey and his “dragon flight” will be part of the realm’s defense, Caladnei will do the freaking out instead (and will contact him and Harpers and Chosen, and end up doing much the same things with the War Wizards as above).
In either case, the defenders of Cormyr will not want to precipitate a battle that could destroy Cormyr. If the dragons don’t try to land in, lair in, and largely destroy major cities, the Cormyreans will avoid attacking them (if the dragons kept on arriving, month after month, in ever-increasing numbers, a panicked populace would try to flee en masse, and the defenders would then decide to attack dragons when they could surprise lone or small groups of dragons, and think they can manage to destroy them before lots of other dragons are attracted to the fray. If they can see a way to make dragon start to fight dragon, so they can “attack from the rear” in the chaos and finish off wounded wyrms, they will do so). Rather, the Cormyreans will muster an ever-beefier defense, and do nothing else but wait and watch (moving important citizens, mothers and children to deep shelters away from dragonbreath attacks, and abandoning towers that can be shattered easily by dragon wings and talons, plus the surrounding buildings that toppling towers would flatten). Cormyrean envoys in Sembia, Westgate, and elsewhere will hire adventurers to make exploratory “find dragon lairs, destroy them and their treasure is yours, we can use magic to help you escape if things go bad, and you signal us thus” expeditions.

2. The defenders of Cormyr would be perfectly happy if the arriving dragons laired in the Hullack Forest, the West Reaches, and especially the Stonelands. Epic-level adventurers (and of COURSE any existing Baron of the Stonelands) would be expected to make it clear to dragons that attacks on the citizenry, livestock, and food crops of Cormyr will be viewed as acts of war and that “Cormyr has the means to slay any aggressor, even the mightest, eldest wyrm” (but that Zhent caravans are fair game, and - - if the city of Shade exists in your campaign - - they, too, are fair game).
Epic-level adventurers would be expected to kill dragons who defied such words, or attacked them or Cormyr, and would be promised rewards (noble status to anyone who delivers the deathstroke to a dragon, knighthoods to anyone who participates directly in the slaying of a dragon, plus gold-coin-cash rewards [and yes, thanks to the Crystal Grot and Vangey’s canny “buying” of much foreign gold coinage, Cormyr has built up treasury enough over the years to do this].

3. Yes. If you own the old COUNCIL OF WYRMS boxed set, consider that all of the “honor to avoid or control combat” customs therein hold sway. Apply any wrinkles you want to from either the original or the 3e DRACONOMICON tomes, and then consider that individual dragons, if brought to desperate near-death straits, may well “break the rules” and try all manner of tricks, savage attacks, etc. (if they value ascending to control this mythal as “worth it,” balanced against being thrust out into the Rage or being shunned by all dragons who hear of their behaviour). The governing principle here has to be: with so many dragons crowding into a small area in a short time, they are going to have to be “excessively polite” to each other, akin to the old joke about the armed Americans crowding into the phone booth - - or there’s going to be mayhem and bloodshed, right away!

This sounds VERY interesting. Regardless of what you decide to do in the campaign and how it unfolds, please let me know what happens!



So saith Ed. Who will always have a soft spot for Cormyr. (Sorta shows, don’t it?)
Two more swift notes: to Warrax and Purple Dragon Knight, the Port Hope “overflow lot” I mentioned behind (west of) the park with the bandshell is free (no meters), and the meters elsewhere in town stop being enforced at 6pm. Port Hope is a lovely old town, and has some good restaurants (from the superb but pricey Palm/Dr. Corbett’s Inn) to Zest and the save-your-nickels muffin-and-coffee place, the Dreamers’ Cafe, plus most of the usual chains (such as a Tim Horton’s, east on Hwy 2/Peter Street from that intersection at the railway viaduct).
From Scarborough, Port Hope is about 1.5 hours drive on a busy but steady flow 401; if there are accidents or the traffic is REALLY heavy, add time to that. The Hwy 2/Welcome/Port Hope exit is Exit 461, and the next one, that I recommended (Hwy 28/Port Hope/Bewdley or Peterborough) is Exit 464 (the numbers of course correspond to the kilometer-posts along the 401).
Mkhaiwati, Ed says you’re very welcome, he’ll get to your natural disaster lore request when he can, and it was his son-in-law, daughter, and granddaughter who caught the trout. They were VERY fresh when beheaded and gutted, then fried in an iron skillet with a little olive oil, lemon pepper, and a pinch of salt. Done so nicely, Ed said, that he could pull off the tails, then lift the flesh of one side off the bones, take hold of all of the bones as one piece and pull them out intact, and eat what was left. Yumm. Fresh-caught fish taste UTTERLY different from (and are superior to) not-fresh or (gackkk!) frozen fish.
love to all,
THO
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2007 :  15:25:24  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
I have been reading back over both rumors and postings with the hindsight of seeing the changes to the Realms, and it * SEEMS * (I may be wrong, but I don't think so) that Ed and RAS both knew the essentials of this change some years back, and didn't like or agree with them.
I think they're both still around, working with the Realms now, out of a love for the Realms, and because it's their meal ticket. They of course can't say much in reply to our questions because of NDAs and not wanting to shoot the "new Realms" in the foot before it gets going.
But I hope Ed can tell us this much: was this change "his idea"? Or is he along right now mainly to do damage control and try to salvage SOMETHING?
I overheard someone at a con who'd read an advance copy of DARK LORD (Ed's first Falconfar book, pub by Solaris) ask Ed if the game designer main character was him, and the bad company that changes the designer's world was TSR or WotC, and Ed firmly said no, that Falconfar had been written and partially plotted for nearly a decade, and been peddled on his agent's website for years (I think I remember Faraer finding and directing scribes to it, actually). He seemed upset that the timing of this change in the Realms would make people THINK his Solaris book was a dig at WotC or TSR.
So, please, Ed and THO: how much can you say in answer to my question here? Please?
Blueblade
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3521 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2007 :  15:38:34  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
In another scroll discussing King Azoun's "behaviors" I commented that 2 to 3% of Cormyr's Populus could be his bastard children. I was curious as to how many Ed thought might be around. Certainly more than 20....less than....100?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2007 :  15:41:24  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Not trying to answer your question, Red Walker, but I just remembered something: didn't Ed do a Realmslore column on the Wizards website about Azoun's bastard offspring? I'm sure I remember something; anyone have a link?
Kuje or Sage or Wooly, Masters of Links?
Blueblade
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Daviot
Senior Scribe

USA
364 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2007 :  15:57:20  Show Profile  Visit Daviot's Homepage  Send Daviot an AOL message Send Daviot a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade

Not trying to answer your question, Red Walker, but I just remembered something: didn't Ed do a Realmslore column on the Wizards website about Azoun's bastard offspring? I'm sure I remember something; anyone have a link?
Kuje or Sage or Wooly, Masters of Links?
Blueblade


Blueblade, I think what you were referring to was Realmslore: Azoun's Offspring, right?

One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
Want more adventure? Into the Dark (PF Beginner Box 2nd level) | The Red Leaves Enigma (3.x/PF 3rd/4th level) | In Iron Clad (TBD, 3.x/PF 14th lvl)
Want an 'Ecology of the Kitsune'? Races Revised: The Kitsune Clans
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2007 :  16:11:09  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello, all! Hearken! Blueblade's recent post has elicited some very important words from Ed, so I'll sign off now and let the Creator of the Realms speak:



Not, it was not my idea.

However, before every scribe or Realms fan everywhere grabs that comment and shouts, “See! They’re ruining the Realms and Ed Greenwood hates what they’re doing!” I would ask everyone to remember that I walked this particular plank back in 1986, when I sold rights to the Realms to TSR, ceding artistic control of the setting.
From that day to this, except when I “get in first” to paint the picture of a person, place, or country in the Realms, I have been watching other people do things I might not have ever thought of, or agreed with, to the Realms, and exploring the consequences.
It’s what we all (“we” being everyone who works on the Realms, from artists who do line drawings for product interiors to Bob and Elaine as novelists to Eric and George as “lore lords”) DO: poke the Realms in various ways and see what happens. That’s what makes the world seem alive, the constant change.
Most humans hate most change. All of us can recall things (the house or neighbourhood or town where we grew up, perhaps) that have changed so much they’re “gone” for us; our remembered thing has been changed too much for us to accept it as the original. This could, yes, happen with the Realms, just as with every other thing. As I said before, we can’t tell yet (yes, that includes me, because I haven’t seen enough of the so-called “new Realms” yet). Yet riding this magnificent horse that gallops in different and often-surprising directions is what I do, and have done for four decades now, two of them in print with TSR and now Wizards.
I’m sticking with the horse for now, because I know it and love it and we’ve ridden far together. Bailing right now, at full gallop, would be painful, and I’d be left behind and never get to see what neat new places it will reach.
With that said, let me say how moved I am by the anger and upset various scribes have shown here in their postings. You care about the Realms so much. Thank you for that.
I understand your hurt. I have felt it too, over and over, down the last twenty years, and believe me I feel it now, as characters get whacked and I face the prospect, that I’ve been fending off with potions of longevity for as long as I could, of others dying of old age before I ever get to really tell their stories.
I see the risk Wizards is taking, and sure hope it pays off. Whatever happens, I intend to go on sharing the Realms with gamers and readers for as long as I last. I am hard at work on future Realms goodies now, and am acutely aware of the Border Kingdoms and the unpublished city of Teziir and other things too long neglected.
If you need to vent, if you want to talk, I’m here (well, not HERE, but reachable via the Lovely Lady Hooded). I’ve been talking with many of you already about what to do in your own campaigns, and would like to remind everyone that playing up to the Year of Blue Fire can take you ten REAL years (or even longer); my home Realms campaign is proof positive of that. So you can have the luxury of not changing anything right now, and watching the 4e Realms unfold in print, before amking any decision. Lore replies here and elsewhere can still provide guidance in the “Lost Years.”
Please remember that although Wizards of the Coast is a business, it is a company staffed by GAMERS. And fiction writers. They care deeply about the products they publish, and would work elsewhere (because there are many, many fields where creative people can get better paid than in gaming) if they didn’t. So, please, ease off on the Evil Empire talk and wait and see what they DO first.
I’ll still be here (I hope; certain editors have promised to murder me messily if I blow certain deadlines :} ) . I still care about the Realms; no matter what happens to it, I brought it into the world and want to be there and see what it does. I hope all of you will, too.
To borrow the words of The Hooded One:
Love to all,
Ed
P.S. Beezer, no, sorry, there isn’t a Bob short story in GRAND HISTORY. And I disagree with your reviews, but thanks for them anyway. :}

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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3521 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2007 :  16:42:10  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
Thank You Ed for this statement.

It all boils down to 2 facts.

1) We love the Realms

2) We love you

Im sure we will all make it through this, but it is good to hear from you. Fear of change is natural, and greater fear of Big changes is too!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Warrax
Learned Scribe

Canada
128 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2007 :  16:46:22  Show Profile  Visit Warrax's Homepage  Click to see Warrax's MSN Messenger address Send Warrax a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
From Scarborough, Port Hope is about 1.5 hours drive on a busy but steady flow 401; if there are accidents or the traffic is REALLY heavy, add time to that. The Hwy 2/Welcome/Port Hope exit is Exit 461, and the next one, that I recommended (Hwy 28/Port Hope/Bewdley or Peterborough) is Exit 464 (the numbers of course correspond to the kilometer-posts along the 401).


Fantastic, thanks!
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe

USA
476 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2007 :  18:57:17  Show Profile  Visit Sanishiver's Homepage Send Sanishiver a Private Message
Thank you to Ed and THO for a surprisingly quick and very useful reply.

Now to get Felgollos the Flying Misfortune into the mix. ;)

09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.

Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.

And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2007 :  21:33:46  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message
Dear Ed and The Lovely Lady THO,

I am currently reading the ‘Swords of Dragonfire’ and it is simply a *great* and entertaining novel –- not to mention how brilliantly you drop juice tidbits and Realmslore on every page, showing us once again what the true ‘feel’ of the Realms is! For example, that detail about clerics bending only one knee before Royalty in Cormyr would have been of use couple of sessions ago in one of our campaigns! :D

I do have some questions, too, to pester you with:

1)Has there ever been any ‘public’ libraries in the Realms? I recall from my librarianship studies that during his reign Julius Ceasar established many public libraries (maintained by slaves acting as librarians) for all the citizens of Rome. I know that the faiths of Deneir and Oghma maintain ‘lending libraries’ and anyone could study at Candlekeep (for example) for a fee. However, I mean “free-of-charge” type of “modern” library system (or individual libraries) with everyone having a free access to all (non-secret) information, which (in my opinion) might exist or have existed in more ‘civilized’ cultures -- such as the elven kingdoms and Netheril.

2)What can you tell about bookbinding (the ‘styles’ and 'history' of this craft, local/cultural/racial traditions and the materials used) in the Realms?

3)I was thinking of using the village of 'Drawn Swords' (detailed in the 'Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast') in a campaign, and I wanted to ask about how high and wide (at its 'base') the crag is? Are there any hills surrounding it, or does it rise 'straight from the plains'?

4)VGtSC mentions the crag being 'steep-walled', and apparently all the buildings in the village have been built along its walls. Are these buildings built along a path that is winding to the top of the crag? Is there even any stairs or a path leading to the top?

5)In the event of an attack, the villagers retreat to the next "ring" of cottages -- does this mean that these cottages are built in "circles" (as "in the shape of a circle"), "semicircles" or "in rings around the crag"? (this latter meaning that the cottages "wind around" the sides of the crag)

6)How far (in terms of 'height') do these "rings" or "circles" stand apart from each other, and are there really multiple "circles" or "rings" of cottages, even though the village should not have too many buildings?

Thanks a lot in advance! :)

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm

Edited by - Asgetrion on 15 Sep 2007 21:50:36
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  00:54:58  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
If you need to vent, if you want to talk, I’m here (well, not HERE, but reachable via the Lovely Lady Hooded). I’ve been talking with many of you already about what to do in your own campaigns, and would like to remind everyone that playing up to the Year of Blue Fire can take you ten REAL years (or even longer); my home Realms campaign is proof positive of that. So you can have the luxury of not changing anything right now, and watching the 4e Realms unfold in print, before amking any decision. Lore replies here and elsewhere can still provide guidance in the “Lost Years.”


I have to say I appreciate what you have to say, Ed. However, I'm not sure I can see how this works... If I run my campaign prior to the Year of Blue Fire, then I don't need the 4e products. Since I don't need them, I don't buy them. Since I don't buy them, WotC doesn't get my money. WotC doesn't get my money, and it is starting to look like a lot of the "old guard" are going down this path... So WotC starts to loose money, and eventually the line will get cut. That's just the way I'm seeing things right now, however.

But so far there's nothing that really excites me about what they've done. Everything I've seen makes me alternately want to scream and weep (my other half has said I have already done the former, but the truth is I don't scream and haven't screamed since I was a child - however, yelling, shouting, and bellowing I can do and have done).

Look, most of these changes don't seem to make any sense... For example, after Sune suggests an arranged marriage (to balance a demipower with an intermediate power), Tymora is then said to be in a so-called "love" triangle with Helm and Tyr! Cyric actually managing to kill Mystra (I don't care that he had Shar's help, Cyric got to Mystra in DWEOMERHEART! (He had to have done so, if he had merely slain her avatar, she'd still be alive. In order to kill her, he'd have had to go to the heart of her power - Dweomerheart.))! Ao standing by and letting this happen, and NOT appointing a successor immediately afterwards! Ao not destroying Cyric for this affront to balance! (Yes I'm sore that Mystra was killed and Cyric only suffers a thousand years of imprisonment - for the love of the gods, that's a slap on the wrist for a god not a true punishment!) Also, everything I've read about the spellplague suggests it only effects arcane spellcasters - how about clerics who had, up until Mystra's death, been using the Weave?

It's not that changes are the problem, it's just that the changes they're making and the justifications for them are so... well... dumb, to put it bluntly.

quote:

Please remember that although Wizards of the Coast is a business, it is a company staffed by GAMERS. And fiction writers. They care deeply about the products they publish, and would work elsewhere (because there are many, many fields where creative people can get better paid than in gaming) if they didn’t. So, please, ease off on the Evil Empire talk and wait and see what they DO first.


I've never ever had problems with a business wanting to make a profit. That is, after all, the purpose of a business. But what they're doing here is taking a HUGE risk with a known quantity. They're risking the entire Realms product line with this move, and they seem to have gone to great lengths to rub us old guard up the wrong way with the changes they're making. (Just my perception, I'm sure they haven't deliberately set out to slight us.)

quote:

I’ll still be here (I hope; certain editors have promised to murder me messily if I blow certain deadlines :} ) . I still care about the Realms; no matter what happens to it, I brought it into the world and want to be there and see what it does. I hope all of you will, too.
To borrow the words of The Hooded One:
Love to all,
Ed



If there's one thing that might make me stick with the Realms at this point, it's you. So, despite my whine above, thank you for your candor on the subject of these changes, and for all the hard work you put in to making this setting still seem vibrant and real after all these years. I may not change over to the 4e Realms, but the Forgotten Realms (as they have been and as they are right now) will always be my favorite fantasy game world (aside from my own, of course ).

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  02:43:51  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage  Click to see Chosen of Moradin's MSN Messenger address Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message
[quote]Originally posted by Zandilar


It's not that changes are the problem, it's just that the changes they're making and the justifications for them are so... well... dumb, to put it bluntly.

[quote]

I want to add a little more about this point: a timeline is not an explanation of what happens. It's only a summary. And a summary cannot explain clearly anything. The summary of the Fall of Myth Drannor don't explain the Fall of Myth Drannor. So, to see exactly what happened, we will have to wait until the next FRCS.

And I want to echo the words of The Red Walker! Thanks, Ed! I'm waiting to see the new edition of the Realms.

Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P

twitter: @yuripeixoto
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1273 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  03:02:52  Show Profile Send Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin

I want to add a little more about this point: a timeline is not an explanation of what happens. It's only a summary. And a summary cannot explain clearly anything. The summary of the Fall of Myth Drannor don't explain the Fall of Myth Drannor. So, to see exactly what happened, we will have to wait until the next FRCS.



However, we may not get the details, because some events (return of Bane) are never detailled in official products.
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe

USA
396 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  04:19:38  Show Profile  Visit Neriandal Freit's Homepage  Click to see Neriandal Freit's MSN Messenger address Send Neriandal Freit a Private Message
Woh woh woh, hold up. Zandi, what is this your talking about Mystra, Shar, Cyric, Tymora and the gods? Please tell me this is just a demonic story you've created and not "Realms" truth.

"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  05:01:55  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by Neriandal Freit

Woh woh woh, hold up. Zandi, what is this your talking about Mystra, Shar, Cyric, Tymora and the gods? Please tell me this is just a demonic story you've created and not "Realms" truth.



It's all there in the Grand History of the Realms.

(One last note: I don't have this book. I'm going by what was quoted from that book, and have ignored anything I thought was merely extrapolated.)

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe

USA
396 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  05:18:16  Show Profile  Visit Neriandal Freit's Homepage  Click to see Neriandal Freit's MSN Messenger address Send Neriandal Freit a Private Message
Yes, I just noted this and saw the topic. I've voiced my opinion on in so far albeit I'm running low on sleep.

Ed, I have a question to ask you which I never thought I would ask you o any Author of the Realms. I'm a huge fan and massively in love with this setting. My first book was Nether Scroll by Lynn Abbey and got me hooked into it. That was..five years ago now I think. My collection has increased, I've purchased gaming books since then for my creation I love dearly, "Redeemers of Dawn", (which I hope you will look at once the new Compendium comes out.)

Regardless. I've spent much time begging to know the Realms, and be fascinated by the major and lesser players (gods, demons/devils, every day cooks and bar lads) for this world. I was SO amazed by the line you placed in Elminsters Daughter between him, Simbul and Mystra. Which was something to the effect of "What happened back there gave me an uneasy feeling of being mortal again...How am I doing?" asked Mystra. That was the Goddess of Magic asking such a mortal question to two powerful individual's who served the Lady before her. That was such an awesome question to place in that book, and their response equally done.

Answer me this, please. Why should I finish reading this book now when I know she dies? Why should I read the others still waiting on my self when they no longer exist? Why should I love this Realms (or 4.0) that I began to know, learn and understand and cared for the characters involved in?

Why should any of us here at 'Keep do as much with Published Realms now?

I don't mean to come off offensive Ed, and very sorry if I am. I know you are getting this from many players, more who have been a fan longer then I have been here on Gaia, but I don't know if I should continue with what I love when I know that it'll be gone.

"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore

USA
1089 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  06:22:39  Show Profile  Visit Xysma's Homepage Send Xysma a Private Message
Thank you Ed and dear Lady THO for the response to the somewhat horrifying 4E glimpses into the Realms. Though these dark omens of the future for our beloved Realms leave me scared, shocked, and somewhat sickened, it does my heart good to know that Ed has not given up hope. I myself am clinging to the merest sliver of hope that Ed, Eric, and the rest can salvage what at first glance is going to be a nightmare for those of us who love the Realms so dearly. Thanks again Ed, and Lady Hooded, if it is not too much of a boon, could you help me tighten these straps so I can hang on to this horse that Ed is still riding at full gallop?

War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon

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Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.


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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5399 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  06:24:32  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma

Thank you Ed and dear Lady THO for the response to the somewhat horrifying 4E glimpses into the Realms. Though these dark omens of the future for our beloved Realms leave me scared, shocked, and somewhat sickened, it does my heart good to know that Ed has not given up hope. I myself am clinging to the merest sliver of hope that Ed, Eric, and the rest can salvage what at first glance is going to be a nightmare for those of us who love the Realms so dearly. Thanks again Ed, and Lady Hooded, if it is not too much of a boon, could you help me tighten these straps so I can hang on to this horse that Ed is still riding at full gallop?



I don't know, I think that THO has intimated that Ed is pretty good at staying in the saddle under adverse conditions . . .

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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eiglos
Acolyte

United Kingdom
12 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  11:00:48  Show Profile Send eiglos a Private Message
I too fear for the Realms as I know them. I've been following the Realms since before the original gray box through Ed's articles in Dragon (another great loss).

My only current played character in the Realms is a Priestess of Lurue. Her future must be uncertain, unless Lurue returns to her original role in the Realms.

Thanks Ed for the message, I shall keep watch as the situation develops.
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Warrax
Learned Scribe

Canada
128 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  16:45:32  Show Profile  Visit Warrax's Homepage  Click to see Warrax's MSN Messenger address Send Warrax a Private Message
I figure the best way to test out the waters of 4e fluff material is to wait and see. We can moan and complain and kick up a fuss now, but it won't do anything until we've got ourselves a copy of the 4e book with most of the answers and that won't be around for a while.

If the new Realms are at least intriguing, semi-consistent and have a decent theme to them, then I'll consider buying them. My campaigns will continue to run in the 3e period, though.

Anyway, there's really nothing to it but to wait.

As far as the core books though, I am not buying those anytime soon. 3rd edition was released in 2000; that was some 11 years after 2nd edition was released, so that was fine. And the d20 system was a fairly significant change. 3.5 edition was released three years later and while the changes were important, it was still basically errata and it wasn't worth the money. Now, 5 years after that, we've got a whole new edition coming? *thumbs down* What are they going to do, make everything resolve itself in holographic images projected by the power of our minds? That said, if you look at it as a whole, 8 years isn't THAT far off from the 11 between 2nd and 3rd. Still, 4e would have to be stunningly revolutionary, which I cannot see happening.

As far as the Realms 4th ed...

There is the implication that Netheril has returned thanks to the Shades, that some places have been destroyed (Luskan, Mulhorand, Thay), the Silver Marches carry on...

quote:
In 1384 DR, Tyr kills Helm in a romantic misunderstanding over the heart of Tymora. Though nothing can be proved, the gods believe that Cyric is somehow involved in Helm's death.


That's from A Grand History of the Realms, apparently.

quote:
In 1385 DR, with help from Shar, Cyric murders Mystra in Dweomerheart, destroying the plane and Savras, as well as sending Azuth and Velsharoon into the Astral plane.


Is the quote others were talking about, re: Cyric and Mystra.

quote:
Magic bursts from the bonds of the Weave. Thousands of mages are driven insane or destroyed, and the very substance of the world becomes mutable beneath the veils of azure fire that dance across the sky.


Maybe this is the Spellplague?

quote:
Cyric is imprisoned on his home plane for 1000 years by Tyr, Lathander, and Sune for his crimes.


Somehow, this seems a little ridiculous on the surface; what does a millenia mean to a deity? I suppose if you think about the implications it might have to his follower-base, it makes some sense. 1,000 years is a long time for people to forget about you (*coughAmaunator*cough), so while it doesn't pass the Laugh Test (TM), it does make some sense.

The Orc King, a book by RA Salvatore, is set around 1475, so yeah, I guess it is a century in the future. That completely separates us from most of the characters we've grown to enjoy over the last 18 years or so.

A fellow over at ENWorld had this to say, and I thought it was funny because it reminded me of South Park's underpants gnomes:

quote:
Step 1: Destroy Greyhawk.
Step 2: Destroy Faerun
Step 3: .......?
Step 4: Profit!


I'm disappointed that Wizards killed off ANOTHER Mystra, because that seems like the sort of "go-to" move for a setting change; c'mon, it's losing it's impact. It's like when Neil Gaiman shows you Cain and Abel, you don't CARE that CAiN is going to kill Abel. You know it's going to happen then and that in two or three chapters, he'll do it again. It has no meaning.

We just watched Mystryl be killed and transfer her power to Midnight; so now what, no one cared about Midnight and instead we get a new one? Midnight 2.0? That's weak.

Anyway, there are definitely some things I want to read more about before I make a final judgement. That said, I'm not overly keen on where the Realms seem to be going in 4th ed.

Fortunately for me, there is still a rather significant library of 2e and 3e books that I've yet to acquire, so I can forestall worrying about whether to bother with 4e or not for some time.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31684 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  17:05:30  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Fellow scribes, just a note... Unless you're specifically relating any 4e chatter to Ed in particular, can you please post your comments elsewhere. This scroll is purely for questions to Ed, and his replies. Discussion of his replies is fine, but I'm seeing a couple of the more recent replies concentrating more on topics that don't actually have anthing to do with the focus of this scroll.

Thanks.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Warrax
Learned Scribe

Canada
128 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  17:07:40  Show Profile  Visit Warrax's Homepage  Click to see Warrax's MSN Messenger address Send Warrax a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Fellow scribes, just a note... Unless you're specifically relating any 4e chatter to Ed in particular, can you please post your comments elsewhere. This scroll is purely for questions to Ed, and his replies. Discussion of his replies is fine, but I'm seeing a couple of the more recent replies concentrating more on topics that don't actually have anthing to do with the focus of this scroll.

Thanks.




Sorry about that. :D

I actually have a question that my ramblings brought to the fore.

Ed, I have a question for you:

What's Narm up to, these days? What's he been doing since the events of Hand of Fire?

EDIT - I'll add in my second question here so as not to take up space.

I'm pondering a campaign that centers around the retrieval of the Nether Scrolls and I'd love to hear your take on them. We've discussed the items at length in other threads but perhaps you've some perspective on the artifacts?

Thanks!

Edited by - Warrax on 16 Sep 2007 17:16:58
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dravenloft
Seeker

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  17:08:10  Show Profile  Visit dravenloft's Homepage  Send dravenloft an AOL message  Send dravenloft an ICQ Message  Click to see dravenloft's MSN Messenger address  Send dravenloft a Yahoo! Message Send dravenloft a Private Message
To all afraid for the future of the Realms,
I wouldn't worry too much about the new edition of D&D. The Realms is such that if how it goes forward is even remotely as it has come, then you need not like or hate the new edition. I myself never picked up a single AD&D 2e Rev. corebook, nor did I think Skills & Powers, and 3e/3.5 were anything but bad ideas. I still play the Realms. True, I've said before I play it in GURPS now, but I began it under D&D, and still play it thus when I'm in the right mood.

As for the Realms, regardless of system. I too fear for it, greatly. I got into D&D closer to the end of TSR, a few years before WotC bought them. The Realms to that point is where I play. There are, however, materials from beyond that time that I will still peruse, and even purchase (the new Undermountain thing for 3.5, for example, looks really quite awesome) books that are from the new addition, or the old one after the buy out. I merely keep this in mind: The Realms I play, are the Realms through my own and my players' eyes. If I am too bothered by an event, I merely move, ignore, or alter that event so it ceases to be a square peg in a round hole.

Wait and see. You'll meet events, monsters, races, artifacts, etc... that rub you the wrong way. You'll see changes to those that you know and love. No one is forcing you to accept those. Don't quit exploring the Realms, and don't quit looking over the new products, as any good adventurer knows: There may be a gleaming gem hidden in the most unlikely of places.

Space Opera, Planetary Romance, Speculative Fiction and similar by me.
check it out at http://universal-nexus.com
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1792 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  17:21:23  Show Profile  Click to see Purple Dragon Knight's MSN Messenger address Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message
And Warrax: my game, if you join it, is set in 1376 or 1377 DR (must check my notes! ) and I will reassure you that we play with the 3.5 rules and will continue to do so for a long, long time.

As I already mentioned to you, I use the AoW adventure path with Eric Boyd's adaptation notes, and the party's average level is currently character level 18. The group plans to continue into the Epic levels, which is cool by me, as I haven't tried the Epic rules yet. However, we might also start a low-level spin off campaign featuring the minions/henchmen of these Epic PCs in the future (which you would also be welcomed to join, although this has not been discussed with everyone in the group yet, mainly due to the fact that we're having a blast with the Average Party Level (APL) 18 game right now...)

Edited by - Purple Dragon Knight on 16 Sep 2007 17:24:52
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31684 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2007 :  17:27:53  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Folks, as I said... let's keep this focused on questions for Ed.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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