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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31461 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2007 :  00:30:37  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

Ed,

There's some confusion about the Undermountain sourcebook. I've seen it both privately and publicly. So I'm asking: is the new sourcebook part of FR canon? A lot of people are confused if it is or is not since it doesn't have the FR logo and its a generic sourcebook.



Yes, afaik.

Grand History of the Realms will refer to the key event that most folks are upset about.

--Eric

Rich Baker also confirmed this over in his Q&A scroll at WotC on the 15th June:-

"Yes, Halaster is no more. You'll see an entry to that effect in the Grand History when it comes out."

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 13 Jul 2007 00:33:21
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4854 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2007 :  14:49:09  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, fellow devotees of the Realms. I bring you once more the words of the Master, this time a response to createvmind’s recent query: “And it's not even my birthday, thank you so much. And yes I am all about realmslore, a fiend for it in fact so on that note, what mutated kinds of trolls and troll blooded creatures dwell within the Trollbark Woods and Troll Mountains is what I want to know? Figured I'd approach it from a different angle since still patiently awaiting a reply on how trolls keep up with the "arms/magic race."”
Ed replies:



Fair enough. I checked my long-ago notes, and updated them, and came up with this: trolls galore, led by double-sized, double-hit dice, two-headed trolls. There are also regenerating (conditions and limits: just like trolls) chokers (see MM) dwelling up in the trees, in uneasy co-existence with the trolls (the chokers have constructed “highways aloft” of vines, toppled and intertwined branches, and so on, trap-nets to drop on foes, and similar perils). There are also leaf- and moss-eating giant slugs of dull green mottled with brown, that move slowly along trailing edible-by-many-things slime, and can be “steered” and used as carry-beasts by the trolls. The Woods also hold a few deepspawn, hidden in deep caverns, that hungry trolls can devour the spawn of (when other food is scarce or extreme harsh winter weather makes travel too difficult), and the high valleys of the mountains are home to a rare species of slow-moving flatworms known as “tree-worms” because of where they are found. These creatures are easily plucked and harvested, but are nauseating when eaten - - except to a troll. Trolls merely find them bland, boring sustenance fare, but can use them to survive because if the head is left intact, a flatworm regenerates the rest of its body at about half the rate a troll does (so when devoured by the trolls, they “grow back” so they can be eaten again).
Aside from insects and plants of various sorts, the Woods and the forested high valleys of the Mountains are devoid of life (notably birds and the “small furry critters” of most woodlands): the chokers and trolls long ago exterminated them. There are also no human woodcutters, so the Woods feature some truly monstrous trees (valuable if they can be harvested, perhaps by magic, and transported well away from the Woods in a hurry).



So saith Ed, the ever-affable provider of Realmslore. Geez, createvmind, those two locales sound like great places to stay well away from. Your adventurers will know that, right?
love to all,
THO
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Pardan
Seeker

31 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2007 :  15:11:00  Show Profile  Visit Pardan's Homepage Send Pardan a Private Message
Hello Ed and Hooded One,

For the campaign I am soon starting to play in, I wanted to create a cleric of Sharess, since the goddess has always been one of my favourites (mostly for the strange link between her role as a fierce warrior and as a hedonist, but also because, simply said, i love cats!).
Now, I don't want her to conform to the archetype many might have in mind when they think of the clergy - someone who jumps into bed with anyone.
Rather, I want her to be fierce in combat as well as in the pursuit of pleasure but also highlight her wisdom and her innate goodness, someone who also might live a life of promiscuity but still has wise and kind words for anyone, trying not to hurt those she cares about.

Now i wonder how exactly to put thos together in a way that still fits the deity. If you had some advice for me, I'd be delighted.

Do not knock on Death's door - ring the bell twice and run away.
He hates that.
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Tormtar
Seeker

20 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2007 :  17:26:03  Show Profile  Visit Tormtar's Homepage Send Tormtar a Private Message
Dear THO and Ed, yet another question for the pile; this time of the Dwarven variety.

It's stated that Ghellin, the last King of Tethyamar, died in exile in 1369DR, would it be possible to let us have some rough ideas of whether or not he had any heirs and who/where they might be?
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

471 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2007 :  19:39:04  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Thats perfect, I have treasure taken by trolls over the generations amassed in various locations underground that a crafty ogre-mage has long traded various troll leaders items that help them resist fire and acid. I am now looking to establish an underground trade between these regional trolls and the amassed ogre army in Murann. So my players will truly feel they took on some varied and unique versions of what they assumed were just ravenous simple monsters that will be backed by far more shrewd creatures seeking to keep their business partners around.

Thank you very much.
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1752 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2007 :  02:01:47  Show Profile  Visit Purple Dragon Knight's Homepage  Click to see Purple Dragon Knight's MSN Messenger address Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message
Dear Ed,

While I understand the need for NDAs and all, I think the cat is out of the bag on the King of Undermountain... so... isn't it high time you say a few words for our dearly departed Halaster?

(way to put you on the spot, I know... it's just the way we Purple Dragons like it, with official pomp and all... )

PDK,
making a stand at 3.5, and stopping at 1375 DR

----------------
Originally posted by Uzzy
"I do not have access to unlimited funds, but even if I did, I wouldn't want to pay for sourcebooks for which I would have zero use, just because they have the Forgotten Realms written on the cover."
"Paizo is just plain better. Besides, they are still supporting my game of choice. WoTC spellplagued my campaign of choice."
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4854 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2007 :  02:57:51  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. This time I bring unto your waiting eyes Ed’s response to scribe Thauramarth, specifically to this question: “Dear Ed, In (url="http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9569"]another thread[/url]) Markustay brought up the question as to which degree the I3-5 Desert of Desolation series was canon. I know that the module was basically a compilation module of modules which had been written before the Forgotten Realms became a TSR-published setting. Some additional material was written to fit the original modules into the Forgotten Realms (reference to Elminster, Durpar, etc.). Although I would never say that it seems a bit like a square peg and a round hole (I'd say the hole was hexagonal), it seemed a bit odd that the first module to be marketed as "Forgotten Realms" would be set in a very peripheral region, which since has not received all that much attention. Were you involved in the creation of the additional material, and if so, can you shed some light on how this interesting decision was reached?”
Ed replies:



No, unlike the “Realmsification” of Doug Niles’s Celtic setting into the Realms (swapping his prepared continent for my Moonshae Isles) I wasn’t involved at all in “fitting” those particular modules into the Realms.
I know that TSR was concerned that a swift and steady flow of material for the Realms should and indeed must appear to make sure the Realms “caught on.” The company had the existing example of Gary Gygax as a “creator bottleneck” (he was too busy running the company to write Greyhawk material as fast as it was needed to feed public demand, or as fast as he wanted to; longtime D&D gamers will remember how long we all waited for the promised Castle Greyhawk). They certainly didn’t want me to become another creator bottleneck, and were largely unaware of how much lore I had built up and how quickly I could work.
Starting in 1986, I hurled tons of material at TSR, and (largely through the hard work of Jeff Grubb) it became the original boxed set and FR1 in short order; Steve Perrin was handed my magic items and spells package (it became FR4), and Paul Jaquays was given the “North” stuff pruned out of FR1 (which became FR5).
My campaign had vast, sprawling old-style dungeons (e.g. Undermountain) and “mini-dungeons” (a tomb or cellars of a ruin consisting of a few rooms, that could be explored in one or two four-hour play sessions). I did not have a lot of written-up adventures to hand TSR, because my “home” players were used to a far different style of play (heavy roleplaying, many subplots, a huge cast of supporting characters, lots of “loose ends” that led to future adventures, the PCs choosing where to go and what to do, NPCs reacting to PC activities, and politics, trade, and “day jobs” playing a far larger role than dungeon-delving).
That “32-page dungeon crawl” lack was a hole TSR wanted swiftly plugged. As the sales of the Realms “took off,” that hole was filled by grabbing anything and everything (later example: The Great Khan Game), slapping the FR logo on it, and getting it out there.
I have never been a staff member of either TSR or WotC, though in some years of my freelancing I wrote as many SKUs as a staff designer, and I have been a behind-the-scenes consultant (paid and unpaid, at various times) from 1986 on. I have never had any direct say in what Realms products were published (when, how, format, who wrote) except to make copious suggestions, provide truckloads of lore beforehand so it can be “turned into” products, or creating or handing over lore when asked to by a designer or fiction writer who’s been handed a project and wants to know if I have anything already written that can be of use . . . and so on.
I happen to like those modules, as adventures (with some design reservations). I don’t like overtly real-world historical ties and “style” in the Realms, for reasons I’ve stated many times down the years, and “my” Realms would never have had pyramids, obvious Egyptian or Arabian references, and so on.
However, TSR bought the Realms as a “home” setting for the 2nd Edition of the game, with the deliberate intent that it accomodate all styles of play (pirate sea adventures, “Lost World” explore jungle ruins adventures, Arabian Nights adventures, cloud castles (and battling skyships) in the air adventures, knights battling the knights in the castle next door adventures, adventures in large cities with sewers and thieves’ guilds and haughty nobles - - and so on and on. Wherefore it’s not surprising that some real-world stuff appeared in the Realms. As some of the popularity of the Realms can be attributed to “hosting” these styles of play, I can’t complain.
After all, here we all are 20 years after TSR start publishing the Realms as a product line, and 40 years after I started creating it. Pull up a tankard, put your feet up, and watch the still-unfolding fun . . .



So saith Ed. Who now, with beard gone gray, finally LOOKS as old as Elminster. (Though to quote the Shakespearean T-shirt he often wears: “Though I look old/Yet I am strong and lusty.”)
love to all,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4854 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2007 :  03:01:32  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
And a postscript, from Ed to PDK:


Purple Dragon Knight, I would LOVE to say more, but legally I can't even confirm the existence of the cats or the bags. :}
Let me say this much: you ain't seen NOTHING yet!


Ed then retreated to his third Knights novel, shaking his head and saying, "Oh, I want to say more . . . OH, I want to . . ."

love,
THO
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2007 :  18:46:39  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all. This time I bring unto your waiting eyes Ed’s response to scribe Thauramarth, specifically to this question: “Dear Ed, In (url="http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9569"]another thread[/url]) Markustay brought up the question as to which degree the I3-5 Desert of Desolation series was canon.

(snip)

Ed replies:



No, unlike the “Realmsification” of Doug Niles’s Celtic setting into the Realms (swapping his prepared continent for my Moonshae Isles) I wasn’t involved at all in “fitting” those particular modules into the Realms.

(snip)


I happen to like those modules, as adventures (with some design reservations). I don’t like overtly real-world historical ties and “style” in the Realms, for reasons I’ve stated many times down the years, and “my” Realms would never have had pyramids, obvious Egyptian or Arabian references, and so on.
However, TSR bought the Realms as a “home” setting for the 2nd Edition of the game, with the deliberate intent that it accomodate all styles of play (pirate sea adventures, “Lost World” explore jungle ruins adventures, Arabian Nights adventures, cloud castles (and battling skyships) in the air adventures, knights battling the knights in the castle next door adventures, adventures in large cities with sewers and thieves’ guilds and haughty nobles - - and so on and on. Wherefore it’s not surprising that some real-world stuff appeared in the Realms. As some of the popularity of the Realms can be attributed to “hosting” these styles of play, I can’t complain.
After all, here we all are 20 years after TSR start publishing the Realms as a product line, and 40 years after I started creating it. Pull up a tankard, put your feet up, and watch the still-unfolding fun . . .



So saith Ed. Who now, with beard gone gray, finally LOOKS as old as Elminster. (Though to quote the Shakespearean T-shirt he often wears: “Though I look old/Yet I am strong and lusty.”)
love to all,
THO




Well met! I found the comment about pyramids surprising. My players may soon be headed East and South, and now I'm wondering, Ed, do you have any pyramids and/or ziggurats in your home campaign? If not, what do you substitute for them?


I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4854 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2007 :  01:48:51  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, fellow scribes. A swift answer from Ed this time, to a query from Pardan: “Hello Ed and Hooded One,
For the campaign I am soon starting to play in, I wanted to create a cleric of Sharess, since the goddess has always been one of my favourites (mostly for the strange link between her role as a fierce warrior and as a hedonist, but also because, simply said, i love cats!).
Now, I don't want her to conform to the archetype many might have in mind when they think of the clergy - someone who jumps into bed with anyone.
Rather, I want her to be fierce in combat as well as in the pursuit of pleasure but also highlight her wisdom and her innate goodness, someone who also might live a life of promiscuity but still has wise and kind words for anyone, trying not to hurt those she cares about.
Now i wonder how exactly to put those together in a way that still fits the deity. If you had some advice for me, I'd be delighted.”
Ed replies:



Sure, happy to help. The key to playing a “true to the Realms” cleric of Sharess is that such people are the ultimate sensualists.
That doesn’t necessarily mean sex (although eventually a veteran cleric of Sharess will have had sex in unusual places, with more than just partners of both genders and her own race, and involving various kinks and athletic positions - - though not necessarily all together in the same encounters - - just for the experience).
Rather, it means that the cleric of Sharess loves to feel and experience things. So she’ll walk out naked into fierce storms, to stand and feel the rain or snow lashing her. She’ll thrust her hand (briefly) into flames. She’ll try new cuisine, with odd combinations of sweet and bitter.
She’s all about experiencing things in life. This does NOT mean she’ll necessarily be foolhardy (“Stick a knife in me. I want to feel what it’s like.”) or reckless of the safety of others. Nor will she want to offend against local laws or make things difficult for companions because of her behaviour. If she knows (or it seems likely) it’s illegal to have sex draped all over the statue in the public square, she won’t try to do so. It does mean that she won’t wear underwear (except for “play” purposes), and that her outer garb, even when it covers her from ankles to throat (usually it will bare rather more, to let her skin feel life around her directly), will have slits or unbuttonable darts or the like, so it can readily be hiked up or parted. Again, not just for sex, but so that if she has to sit on a stone wall or tree bough waiting for someone, she’ll be able to arrange her clothing so that her bare skin is in contact with that surface. NOT for “public display” of her body (the garments may well conceal her skin completely from observers), but so that she can feel the bark or stone directly. For the same reasons, except in unbearably hot situations, a cleric of Sharess will always prefer to sleep nude, with someone, skin on skin, even if no sex is going to occur. (This does NOT mean she’ll be foolish enough to deliberately go into battle nude or badly covered, when armor is available - - but it does mean that in an emergency she’ll snatch up useful items or weapons, not waste time on getting dressed. It also does not mean she’ll insist on trying to sleep with a sick or wounded person, when her presence will cause them discomfort, but it does mean that she isn’t embarrassed about climbing into bed nude with anyone or anything. Lonely half-orcs and the maimed and disfigured love clerics of Sharess.)
Textures, temperatures, tastes and smells; clerics of Sharess are all about these things as they go through life.
They are also about pleasure. Again, not just sex, but footrubs and backrubs and scratchings, of both themselves and others (IF they know that whatever activity they’re contemplating brings pleasure to those others). Combing out hair, stroking, masturbating themselves and others, and “grooming” (and yes, in the Realms this can mean literal picking of lice or other crawlies off bodies) and other such activities are all activities good clerics of Sharess do without hesitation or distaste (part of the training of novices is to make them embrace this way of thinking and living).
A cleric of Sharess is NOT ashamed of her body or natural processes (defecation, et al; in battle, being drenched in the blood or fluids of an enemy won’t bother them, and sucking poison from a wound or holding the innards of wounded self or ally in place won’t bring any distaste). If, for example, a Sharessan cleric feels an itch between her shoulderblades, she won’t hesitate to bare them and either ask someone to scratch her (perfect strangers if they seem safe, or a companion) or rub herself against a tree as a cat does.
That’s why some clerics of Sharess, of high rank, wear garters (bands worn tight and high up on the thighs) adorned with burrs, thorns, patches of silky fur, and so on - - not because they are closet masochists or secret worshippers of Loviatar or Ilmater, but for the ongoing sensations. Such garments are kissed reverently when put on and taken off, because they are in themselves offerings to the goddess.
And yes, many clerics of Sharess signal enjoyment of sensations by purring.
It is important to note that clerics of Sharess are sensualists rather than hedonists; they want to experience pain and discomfort as well as pleasure, and aren’t primarily concerned (as a hedonist is) with maximizing their personal pleasure. So a cleric of Sharess wants others around them to experience life to the full, too, and maximize THEIR pleasure and enjoyment of it. That’s where the wisdom and understanding of others, and consideration for their feelings in the things your cleric says and does, comes in. A cleric of Sharess is NOT interested in embarrassing or scandalizing anyone, but is interested in getting them to “unwind” and “relax” and “try new experiences.” Something as simple as a new sort of food dish, for example.
If a cleric of Sharess is traveling with, say, a paladin of Torm who makes it clear he’s NOT interested in sex and regards any attempt to remove his armor as a dangerous distraction, the cleric of Sharess will not make overtures to him. She will secretly wear dildoes to gain her own pleasure, and offer to wash the paladin’s hair and his underarmor padding (and scratch his itches) when he disrobes at night, making it clear that she intends no seduction by these friendly aids, and going only as far in these activities as he wants her to. She will NOT be a constant tease, a flirt who bares herself to tempt him.
In another setting, with folk who enjoy such behavior, she may be the world’s wildest flirt (eating food off the bared body of someone else is a favourite activity, and in fact some temple rites of Sharess involve “calming” homophobes among the novice clergy by having them dine in private with another postulate of the same gender, where all foodstuffs must be eaten off the body of the other participant, so they’ll get over difficulties with being unable to separate sensual pleasures from sexual matters). Clerics of Sharess enjoy a good drink, but dislike becoming drunk, because it deadens their faculties for experiencing the world around them (and their memories of having done so).
If a cleric of Sharess is raped, she would NOt welcome the experience, may hate it, and will probably fight hard to avoid it or escape it (if possible), and try to see that the rapist subsequently gets punished - - but she will also try to derive as much physical enjoyment as she can while it’s happening. In like wise, if she is wounded in battle, she wants to feel the pain, even while she might desperately want and seek healing. Which is why heat, cold, and floggings are usually experienced by novice clerics of Sharess (again, outsiders may mistake them for Sharrans or devotees of Loviatar, but this is mistaken; they are merely trying to experience all things, and sometimes the whip will be of stinging nettles, but the next time it may be made of feathers - - it’s tasting the full range of experiences that clerics of Sharess are all about).
None of this should make your cleric of Sharess an all-yielding, “Hey man, please hurt me” sort of person, or a happy-go-lucky “got to rush out into that meadow and feel the storm lightning strike me” idiot, nor yet a “oh, look, a cadaver or someone who can’t run fast enough to get away - - time to have sex again!” ruled-by-lusts sort. She can be ambitious, a fierce warrior (the prowling cat) and pride herself on being able to deal death swiftly and deftly, and she can be a capable adventuress, loyal to her companions and eager to win fame and/or fortune and/or reputation, influence, and worldly rank - - nor do senior clergy of Sharess do anything to discourage such interests and drives.
Clerics of Sharess always look on the bright side of everything. If the party gets lost, or drenched, it’s an opportunity to enjoy experiences they might otherwise have missed, not a calamity. If they want to have a group orgy, she’ll be the one making sure everyone feels involved and is fully enjoying it. In any group, she’ll notice the lonely or unhappy (iest) one and try to “fix that.” When someone is confused or grieving or depressed, she’ll be the silent or gently comforting companion. She is the one who wants all of life, no matter how uncomfortable, to be enjoyed.
Enough to go on? Enjoy!



So saith Ed. Who didn’t just quote his notes, I see, but rewrote and greatly expanded what’s in them. And I certainly recognize the two priestesses of Sharess we Knights met and had dealings with, in his words. (By the way, many folk in Silverymoon venerate this goddess, both as lay worshippers and clergy.)
love (and backrubs!) to all,
THO
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2007 :  03:40:21  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message
quote:
And yes, many clerics of Sharess signal enjoyment of sensations by purring.


That's cute. Great answer, by the way.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
3794 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2007 :  05:42:15  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Tormtar

Dear THO and Ed, yet another question for the pile; this time of the Dwarven variety.

It's stated that Ghellin, the last King of Tethyamar, died in exile in 1369DR, would it be possible to let us have some rough ideas of whether or not he had any heirs and who/where they might be?



See the sidebar for Tethyamar in "lost Empires of Faerûn".

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
3794 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2007 :  05:45:53  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
Hi Ed (and THO)

Whilst I could bug you in private, that would mean that realmslore might not unfold for the yearning masses, so here is my most recent "Realms ???".

I just got back my copy of 'Crown of Fire' from a friend I'd lent it to, and typically I started reading it again. My query relates to Tethgard and the fact that Mirt's ancestor is the watchghost there. Her claims that Tethgard pre-dates Cormyr sounds a bit like ectoplasmic hyperbole, but I'd love to hear anything you have to share on the place and how Mirt's ancestors got from there to wherever Mirt is from.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4372 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2007 :  06:56:58  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Hi Ed (and THO)

Whilst I could bug you in private, that would mean that realmslore might not unfold for the yearning masses, so here is my most recent "Realms ???".

I just got back my copy of 'Crown of Fire' from a friend I'd lent it to, and typically I started reading it again. My query relates to Tethgard and the fact that Mirt's ancestor is the watchghost there. Her claims that Tethgard pre-dates Cormyr sounds a bit like ectoplasmic hyperbole, but I'd love to hear anything you have to share on the place and how Mirt's ancestors got from there to wherever Mirt is from.

-- George Krashos




I believe I asked Ed a similar question a while ago his response should be in Kujes files somewhere (I think it was a 12 to 18 months ago)

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31461 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2007 :  08:01:40  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Hi Ed (and THO)

Whilst I could bug you in private, that would mean that realmslore might not unfold for the yearning masses, so here is my most recent "Realms ???".

I just got back my copy of 'Crown of Fire' from a friend I'd lent it to, and typically I started reading it again. My query relates to Tethgard and the fact that Mirt's ancestor is the watchghost there. Her claims that Tethgard pre-dates Cormyr sounds a bit like ectoplasmic hyperbole, but I'd love to hear anything you have to share on the place and how Mirt's ancestors got from there to wherever Mirt is from.

-- George Krashos




I believe I asked Ed a similar question a while ago his response should be in Kujes files somewhere (I think it was a 12 to 18 months ago)

I believe Dargoth is referring to the Jan. 1 '06 reply. See Ed's Apr. 3 '04 reply to Thom, for another brief mention.

Though, if Ed has more to share [I'm assuming he does], I'd love to hear it!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1752 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2007 :  18:43:35  Show Profile  Visit Purple Dragon Knight's Homepage  Click to see Purple Dragon Knight's MSN Messenger address Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

So saith Ed. Who didn’t just quote his notes, I see, but rewrote and greatly expanded what’s in them. And I certainly recognize the two priestesses of Sharess we Knights met and had dealings with, in his words. (By the way, many folk in Silverymoon venerate this goddess, both as lay worshippers and clergy.)
love (and backrubs!) to all,
THO

I never paid any attention to Sharess until now. Dear Lady Hooded, please pass my heartfelt thanks to Ed. This is awesome!

PDK,
making a stand at 3.5, and stopping at 1375 DR

----------------
Originally posted by Uzzy
"I do not have access to unlimited funds, but even if I did, I wouldn't want to pay for sourcebooks for which I would have zero use, just because they have the Forgotten Realms written on the cover."
"Paizo is just plain better. Besides, they are still supporting my game of choice. WoTC spellplagued my campaign of choice."
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1752 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2007 :  19:04:07  Show Profile  Visit Purple Dragon Knight's Homepage  Click to see Purple Dragon Knight's MSN Messenger address Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message
Dear Lady Hooded and Ed,

I've have been meaning to ask about gnomes for a very long time now. In my Realms, gnomes are a force to reckon with. Whenever you find them, you see an organized community that can achieve things twice faster than any other communities on Faerun (be it human, dwarves or elves). They may not be the best smiths and craftsmen, but they are quick to reach "masterwork" levels (much quicker than the 25 years of apprenticeship all dwarves go through) and once they get there, they are fierce business competitors. They will respond to threats by selling their goods slightly cheaper to a threatening competitor so they can then, themselves, resell to the same price displayed in the gnome shop, utterly shutting up the competition's yapper and getting them off their case. If someone really persist in harassing them, they can send a few pranksters their way, or publicly ridicule them; if all else fails, they do not see packing and leaving as a failure. They value family and friends, and LIFE, way too much to dig their heels in.

Now, when I have the chance to play (rather than DMing), almost exclusively, I have seen myself select gnomes as my characters, for the last three or four years. I have been experimenting with a gnome bard/shadowcraft_mage lately, with the Shadow Magic feat. Many thinks that Shadow Magic is exclusively for Sharrans, but (technically) the Player's Guide to Faerun states the following prerequisite: Wis 15 or to worship Shar. Now, it happens that "my" gnome has a Wisdom of 15, of course!

This gnome of mine worships Baravar Cloakshadow, so it goes without saying that he is illusion-oriented in skills and abilities, and spell selection. In my Realms, these good-aligned shadow magic casters are as acceptable to Shar as regular Weave casters of evil alignment are to Mystra.

Now, there's "regular" Weave magic gods out there (Velsharoon I believe, or is he Lawful Neutral?) So I surmise that the same could be true for the Shadow Weave, even though it's controlled by Shar and they might "have" to be in "good" terms with her (whether this may or may not be contradicted by Faiths and Pantheons).

I guess my question is the following: can you give us a "royal treatment" post on the Forgotten Folk in general? I have hoped to hear your take on gnomes for many years now (especially if you talk about Baravar Cloakshadow, as my gnomes always pick him as a Patron, somehow... By the way, a few years ago I was delighted by a certain Web Enhancement which listed a certain paladin order of Baravar Cloakshadow... ) If you want to chime in on gnomes (or other races other than human) and their use of the Shadow Weave, that would then be spectacular!

Best regards,

PDK

PDK,
making a stand at 3.5, and stopping at 1375 DR

----------------
Originally posted by Uzzy
"I do not have access to unlimited funds, but even if I did, I wouldn't want to pay for sourcebooks for which I would have zero use, just because they have the Forgotten Realms written on the cover."
"Paizo is just plain better. Besides, they are still supporting my game of choice. WoTC spellplagued my campaign of choice."

Edited by - Purple Dragon Knight on 15 Jul 2007 19:08:25
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe

USA
312 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2007 :  00:23:56  Show Profile  Visit AlorinDawn's Homepage  Click to see AlorinDawn's MSN Messenger address Send AlorinDawn a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight

snip I guess my question is the following: can you give us a "royal treatment" post on the Forgotten Folk in general? I have hoped to hear your take on gnomes for many years now (especially if you talk about Baravar Cloakshadow, as my gnomes always pick him as a Patron, somehow... By the way, a few years ago I was delighted by a certain Web Enhancement which listed a certain paladin order of Baravar Cloakshadow... ) Best regards, snip

PDK



Here here! GNOMES GNOMES AND MORE GNOMES! GIVE US GNOME LORE!! er...gnome lore please Ed =)

I've been playing a gnomish bard/druid of Larue and went back to the Gnomish Point of View article in Dragon Magazine and various other sources to find some information concerning the forgotten folk....man they really have been rather forgotten.


Currently reading: Eyes of The Dragon by Stephen King

Long live Sniffy Wigglebottom

Edited by - AlorinDawn on 16 Jul 2007 00:29:57
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2007 :  01:06:26  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by AlorinDawn
Here here! GNOMES GNOMES AND MORE GNOMES! GIVE US GNOME LORE!! er...gnome lore please Ed =)

I've been playing a gnomish bard/druid of Larue and went back to the Gnomish Point of View article in Dragon Magazine and various other sources to find some information concerning the forgotten folk....man they really have been rather forgotten.



Err... and yes... Whatever happened to the gnomish goddesses?

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4854 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2007 :  01:40:41  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all.
This time Ed makes speedy reply to Lorelord of the Realms George Krashos, re. this: “Hi Ed (and THO)
Whilst I could bug you in private, that would mean that realmslore might not unfold for the yearning masses, so here is my most recent "Realms ???".
I just got back my copy of 'Crown of Fire' from a friend I'd lent it to, and typically I started reading it again. My query relates to Tethgard and the fact that Mirt's ancestor is the watchghost there. Her claims that Tethgard pre-dates Cormyr sounds a bit like ectoplasmic hyperbole, but I'd love to hear anything you have to share on the place and how Mirt's ancestors got from there to wherever Mirt is from.”
Dargoth and The Sage noted two of Ed’s previous replies that mentioned Tethgard, and I’ve quoted them here:
2004:
Thom: Without giving TOO much away to Our Hooded Lady, what can you tell me about "Lost Tethgard" in the Hullack Forest? From its spelling I'm thinking it might be another Irongard mini-dungeon, a lost town a la Gauntulgrym or maybe a lost elven realm? I'll understand if you can't say too much because the Knights may go there someday...
Ed: Tethgard appears briefly in CROWN OF FIRE (Chapter 6), when Mirt guides Narm, Shandril, and Delg to its overgrown ruins. Before Cormyr existed as a realm, ‘very long ago,’ Lady Duskreene ruled a small area (now deep in the Hullack Forest) from her castle of Tethgard. Her watchghost still roams when ‘awakened,’ though not far from its crypt.
Today, Tethgard isn’t much more than a few tumbled stones, crazily-leaning low walls running among the trees, and a leaf-choked pit (collapsed cellar entrance) or two, with the stone stumps of what were once round towers here, and the heaved and broken-by-trees flagstones of what were once floors over there . . . yet tiny traces (glades, stone-and-stump farm fences, traces of cart-roads, foundations of stables and cottages and outlying huts) of Duskreene’s lands remain, overgrown by the forest. Yes, some of these cellars could well be ‘mini-dungeons.’
2006:
Dargoth: In CROWN OF FIRE Mirt says that Lady Duskreene had ruled here before Cormyr was founded. Now before Cormyr was founded Hullocks Forest would have fallen within the borders of The Lands of the Purple Dragon and the lands won by Iliphar Nelnueve. Neither of whom are likely to allow humans to setup in their mists . . . [dates snippage] . . . Given this I can think of the following 2 options: A) Mirt has Netherese ancestors (The Netherese would probably have been powerful enough to keep Thauglorimorgorus and his dragons at bay long enough to establish Tethgard), B) Mirt has Draconic ancestors of some sort
Ed: Mirt does indeed have some Netherese ancestors (Lady Duskreene and her people). He may also have draconic ancestors that he (and we) don’t yet know about (suggesting that Lady Duskreene and her people may have been under the protection of one or more dragons who were romantically linked to one or more of said people). I dare not say more at the present time [big cheesy grin].
Right. That “present time” was more than a year ago, some project plans went in another direction, and Ed is now pleased to comment as follows:



Certainly. Glad to sweep back the curtain on this essential and too-long-neglected little corner of Realmslore.
Iliphar Nelnueve had three weaknesses: like many powerful wizards, he was a loner who disliked a lot of social interaction (with anyone, but specifically he detested a lot of his “posing, sneering, hunting and clever-tonguing and socially jostling” elven kin); he was alone for many years, without servants or kin (and so, no one to feed him and no source of income that didn’t involve him interrupting his magical experimentations and wand- and scepter-crafting, and doing things for himself); and once he had won lands from the Purple Dragon, he needed someone to work to give the elves a “neutral ground” meeting-place and heart for the fledgling elven realm (without doing this itself, which would have consumed ALL of his time, from that moment on), or risk losing the realm into strife - - and having the dragons then find some pretext to reclaim it.
During his travels to gain certain substances as ingredients for his magic item making, he had met and befriended a wise, welcoming human woman (Duskreene, who was of Netherese lineage and then dwelling in now-vanished forests south of Evereska), who (purely out of curiosity as to his doings, plus her own warm nature) had assisted him and fed him when he was in need.
Not able to think of anyone else - - for he KNEW that exalting one elf or elven family above the others to be his “hostess” and center of the realm would lead to bitter divisions and an ultimate failure of the realm, with the dragons watching for divisions they could exploit and drive the elves out again, whereas an outsider and non-elf, even one despised by all, could serve as a unifying force [they could all enjoy hating her, together] - - Iliphar turned to Duskreene and invited her to be his hostess, hub of the realm, and despised-by-elves doormat.
Duskreene was quite shrewd enough to know exactly what she was getting into, and did so willingly, but set some conditions: she was to “rule” a small territory with clearly-defined borders and a stone castle at the heart of it, so that although it remained elven land, her writ governed it and she could thus control elves by denying them access to the “court” or social whirl of the crossroads (they could still meet with other elves freely, all over the elven woods, but they could not negotiate with enemies or rivals in a “neutral ground,” because she was the only neutral ground). Iliphar could store his most dangerous magics in spell-locked chambers inside the thicknesses of the castle walls (whereas natural caverns were known to others, and growing tree-rooms and homes could readily and tracelessly be magically opened by others and then closed again, using tree-shaping magics most elves knew), Duskreene could dwell in a place that kept the rain out, and could even have human visitors there (where they would find neither welcome nor comfortable accommodations anywhere else in the future Cormyr), and the castle itself could be fashioned as a gigantic dragon trap, with blasting magics set ready into its turrets and spires in case of dragon treachery (as the elves knew draconic minds could not help but regard it, the only stone structure of any size in the woods, as the heart and focus of the elven realm; “the” place to strike at).
So Iliphar’s magics built the castle of Tethgard, Duskreene and her family and a small hired human staff came and dwelt, Tethgard functioned as a feasting and negotiating moot, and it WORKED; all went well. Duskreene was despised by the elder elves, but many of the younger ones came to regard her as a friend (she mothered them when they were upset, gave them a place to rest, sleep, and hide when they’d done wrong or been hurt in love or were at odds with their families) and even (for a very few of them, including Iliphar) as a lover.
Duskreene’s family flourished (intermarrying with the hired staff and with other humans who found their ways to Tethgard or who were brought there after Duskreene’s far-traveling kin had met and fallen in love with them elsewhere), but (as all humans do) came to regard the small hold as “theirs.” When Duskreene died, Iliphar joined the other elves in politely but firmly driving all of the humans out, and letting the forest reclaim the castle. Duskreene “rose again” as a watchghost, and the castle was later riven in a dragon attack on the early humans of Cormyr (after the elves had lost control of the lands).
Duskreene’s kin went to places that are today Amn, northern Tethyr, Elturel, Waterdeep, and the vicinity of Starmantle. Just who and where Mirt’s immediate ancestors hailed from, I’m afraid I’m keeping NDA for now (future fiction plans, of course).
There you are; enjoy, George (I hope), and see you at GenCon! (Good news: American beer is getting better!)



So saith Ed. Who will indeed be in Indy for the usual annual festivities this year (though I, alas, shall not). All of you will just have to kiss Ed for me.
love to all,
THO
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe

USA
312 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2007 :  01:49:51  Show Profile  Visit AlorinDawn's Homepage  Click to see AlorinDawn's MSN Messenger address Send AlorinDawn a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar

Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by AlorinDawn
Here here! GNOMES GNOMES AND MORE GNOMES! GIVE US GNOME LORE!! er...gnome lore please Ed =)

I've been playing a gnomish bard/druid of Larue and went back to the Gnomish Point of View article in Dragon Magazine and various other sources to find some information concerning the forgotten folk....man they really have been rather forgotten.



Err... and yes... Whatever happened to the gnomish goddesses?




I didn't pick my patron, Larue selected my gnome after a jaunt in the High Forest when she showed herself in the distance in a glade at my gnome's wedding to a water spirit named Uushmae.

Currently reading: Eyes of The Dragon by Stephen King

Long live Sniffy Wigglebottom
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Pardan
Seeker

31 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2007 :  07:33:52  Show Profile  Visit Pardan's Homepage Send Pardan a Private Message
Thanks a great deal, Ed! Your reply was simply awesome!

Do not knock on Death's door - ring the bell twice and run away.
He hates that.
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2007 :  08:43:15  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by AlorinDawn

I didn't pick my patron, Larue selected my gnome after a jaunt in the High Forest when she showed herself in the distance in a glade at my gnome's wedding to a water spirit named Uushmae.



Oh I'm sorry... Looks like I wasn't clear what I was talking about.

Lurue is a force of nature all to herself, and of course she could have worshipers of pretty much any race. (I presume that's who you're talking about!)

I was meaning to prompt Ed for an explanation of why the gnomish pantheon has no goddesses in it.

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

471 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2007 :  21:38:06  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Hello All,

To Ed,

I have a twofold question about the topic of raising dead in Faerun, I know what the game mechanics are but I would truly like to grasp how such a ritual is done. Players often look at it as a spa treatment, "Hello, I'm looking to bring my companion back to life, we have gold to pay but we're looking for the tuesday special, ya know he comes back with all his leve..... no wait....lets see....ummmm,we feel he would only WANT to return to life if he doesn't lose xp...no ummmmmmmm.........HE COMES BACK JUST AS HE WAS RIGHT BEFORE HE DIED!" Players high five on applying OOG knowledge of True Ressurection.

So first off I assume the clergy of a any temple/church doesn't have a billboard showing the various types of rasing dead spells, as far as the non-clergy masses are concerned (excluding individuals well lored in religion), being raised from the dead is the common term. Yes?

Unless a child is royalty or a merchant has bags of money to offer, a child is normally not raised for what I assume are two reasons, no deity and just far more difficult and more likely to fail than trying to recall the sprirt of an adult. Yes?

It would require extensive knowledge and over abundance of wealth or have connections within clergy to have a powerful raising spell ritual performed, not simply meeting the book price. Yes?

Now how are these rituals performed, I assume the first thing asked is how long the deceased has been dead and the condition of body and most importantly who the deceased worshipped, I assume this plays a major role in whether the ritual will even be performed at all.

And what is the difference between druids performing such rituals as compared to clerics, and any other necessary information you could add that I'm overlooking at the moment?

And lastly what toll/effect does it have on the cleric/druid performing the ritual, what does he/she experience during and after such a thing, does it take from them, change them?

Thank you as always, I've mulled this over but after your response about follower of Sharess I'm sure your answer would be beyond what I would envision.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2007 :  02:56:57  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message
Wow, thanks for all the detail about Duskreene.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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