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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2007 :  01:25:05  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, fellow scribes.
As I expected, Ed has indicated to me that different faiths will mean different expected behaviours for paladins, and that in his replies (! yes, multiple!) he will “of course” deal with both male and female paladins.
This time, however, I bring you the words of Ed regarding this recent query from Wooly Rupert: “In the real world, there are eight thousand different "How many X does it take to change a light bulb joke?" Some go for professions, some go for various groups, be they ethnic, regional, or even just having a particular characteristic. Is there a Realms version of this joke?
Similarly, there have been, at various times, jokes which focus on the perceived lack of intelligence of some groups. When I was little, I heard a lot of "dumb Pollock" jokes (apologies to any hailing from that particular region of the world; those were just the jokes of the time); as a teenager, many of those jokes were repackaged as "dumb blonde" jokes (similar apologies to our fair-haired scribes). Do these jokes have a Realms parallel?”
I posted: “I can start you off by saying that in the Dragonreach lands (well, the Dales and the Vast, at least), Ambral Isle is the colloquial home of fops and dunderheads, so that's one of the regional butts of those "dumb" jokes.”
and Ed now replies:



As THO implied, there are different butts of such jokes from place to place in the Realms, though none of them actually include the word “dumb” (it’s just understand). In the Dragonreach, jokes are told about the “jack” or “lass” from Ambral Isle. In Aglarond, Unther, Mulhorand, and Chessenta, “Thayans” are thus ridiculed.
In Westgate, they lampoon Sembians, and vice versa (curiously, Cormyr gets left out of this).
In Mulmaster, they sneer at Hillfarians and Zhents; Zhents look down on so many other places that they have no “stock butt” sort of person, but in Hillsfar, they sneer at “Dalesmen” and “Dale cows” (a stereotypical fat, beefy, mannish Dale farm woman, red-faced, large-bosomed, terrifically strong and tireless, and about as smart as the nearest fencepost).
In Scornubel, they sneer at Waterdhavians, while in Waterdeep they ridicule barbarians and Luskanites.
Amnians sneer at Waterdhavians, “hairy Northerners,” and Tethyrians, and Tethyrians sneer right back at “coinhead Amnians.” Calishites sneer at “unwashed Northerners” of all origins, while in Tharsult and the Tashalar folk mutter about the fat “reeking-beards” of Calimshan (referring to the habit of some wealthy Calishite men of perfuming their beards; as folk in these places do not ridicule Calishite women, seeing those females as smart persons who manipulate foolish males to get what they can, in the face of oppression from those same males [remember, these are stereotypes]).
The halflings of Luiren tell jokes about the “blackbreasts” of Dambrath (referring to the true drow, not Crinti), and all of Dambrath seems to indulge in jokes about the foolish “nosefeet” of Luiren (referring to a local caricature of halflings are being all noses and feet, with precious little body between).
And so it goes.



So saith Ed. Who’s not above telling the occasional joke while roleplaying “in character” (as I remember to my cost). Let me relate just one: Ed portraying a prostitute in a tavern, snapping a reply to a VERY lewd suggestion: “What kind of lass d’you think I am? A CONTORTIONIST?”
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 20 Jun 2007 01:29:31
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2007 :  01:34:20  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
"heading downstairs for a post-midnight snack...", PDK?
You keep her downstairs?
Can you at least introduce us? C'mon, what's her name?

love,
THO
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Taelohn
Seeker

36 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2007 :  08:09:01  Show Profile  Visit Taelohn's Homepage  Send Taelohn an AOL message  Click to see Taelohn's MSN Messenger address Send Taelohn a Private Message
Greetings, Ed & THO.

Can you make any comments on what happened to Halaster in Expedition to Undermountain? Will it be better explained, or expanded upon, in a future product?

Edited by - Taelohn on 20 Jun 2007 08:59:09
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2007 :  08:37:49  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Well, Rich Baker has confirmed that Halaster's demise in Expedition to Undermountain will receive an entry in Grand History of the Realms.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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maelstrom58
Seeker

USA
32 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2007 :  00:12:17  Show Profile  Visit maelstrom58's Homepage Send maelstrom58 a Private Message
Here's another question for Ed:

Though they have almost no coverage in Realms sourcebooks, I am intrigued by the secret society called "The Men of the Basilisk." My question is: Can you tell us about the makeup of the Men's leadership and give us descriptions of some of the more notable NPCs in the upper echelon, as well as any other information you care to share?

Thanks,
Maelstrom

Edited by - maelstrom58 on 21 Jun 2007 00:14:48
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2007 :  00:59:48  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
While Ed will likely have more, I'll note that you can find a little about the Men of the Basilisk in the Ol' Grey Box. Also, Eric L Boyd provided some details in an article for POLYHEDRON #144.

They're also briefly covered in the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardback.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2007 :  01:13:25  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello again, fellow scribes.
As I expected, Ed has indicated to me that different faiths will mean different expected behaviours for paladins, and that in his replies (! yes, multiple!) he will “of course” deal with both male and female paladins.



Wonderful, I can't wait! A bunch of other ladies are eagerly awaiting these replies as well.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)

Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 21 Jun 2007 01:13:44
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2007 :  02:36:47  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message
Hiya Ed,

It's been awhile, and I know you still have some NPC questions out there from me, but I was looking through my lists and was wondering if you could supply some details about Sharra Frohm, who is in the 2e campaign box set. Also, if you could, some lore about Palus Frohm since she is descended from him and any lore about the tome that he wrote.

Trying to find NPC's that aren't NDA. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium

Edited by - Kuje on 21 Jun 2007 02:37:31
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2007 :  13:53:14  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, Realms fans. This time Ed answers Uzzy, regarding this: “Hey Ed and THO! I've a seafaring question today. Do Faerúnian sailors suffer from Scurvy, and how, if at all, do they treat it? And what do they call it? Thanks in advance! Also, can others join in this licking of THO?”
Well, let me answer that second question before I turn things over to Ed. Uzzy: of course. Start whenever (and wherever!) you like. (In the park, while waiting in line to pay in a shop . . .)
Ahem. Ed replies:



Yes, Faerûnian sailors are afflicted (rarely) by scurvy. “Rarely” because most sailing in the Realms is either out-and-back fishing runs, or coastal shipping runs; unless damaged or blown way off course by storms, most ships stay close to shore, “hopping” from port to port or making “fast runs” from port of origin to a specific destination; in either case, they’re seldom long at sea.
Scurvy is called by various names in the Realms, including toothfall (because in advanced cases, the teeth of afflicted sailors fall out), blackjaws (same reason: gums go black), and sea fever. Some sailors know what causes it, and treat it (usually by having limes on board, stored in chests of sand, which the sailors can eat freely; a few crews tried carrying kegs of fruit juices, but these usually fermented, making everyone drunk when they imbibed).



So saith Ed, who certainly LOOKS like an old salt. Arrr, me buckos, and so on. I, however, look rather better when climbing the shrouds clad in naught but a ragged cap, with a sword clenched in my teeth. Distracting the foe, Ed calls it . . .
love to all,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2007 :  13:56:14  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Just a note: whilst travelling these next few days, Ed's Realmslore replies will probably become rather sporadic. However, keep those questions and comments coming!
love to all,
THO
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Penknight
Senior Scribe

USA
536 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2007 :  14:00:26  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message
Safe journeys, fair lady.

Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document

Edited by - Penknight on 21 Jun 2007 14:00:55
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2007 :  17:34:41  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by Penknight
In 2nd Edition, I played a male paladin of Torm that fell for a female half-celestial servant of Torm, and they had a brief one-night "encounter". When another PC asked my paladin about my "...duties and responsibilites to the Lady," my character looked at him and said: "I am also a man. Do I not also have a responsibility to my own heart? Am I to be left with nothing, save my duty? Why should my life be bereft of love?"

Well, that was how I dealt with the situation. There is a great deal more to it than that, but I won't post that here. I hope my situation helps some, Lady Rino. I always tried to play him as a magnanimous soul, and he remains one of my favorite characters to this day.



Yes, thanks for sharing. It seems plausible to me that a paladin might want something more than simply their duty (after all, they're still human).



Unless they're dwarven, or elven, or ...allright, I'll stop being a monkey's donkey now

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Penknight
Senior Scribe

USA
536 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2007 :  01:14:26  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message
I have an elven language question that I would like to pose if I may, Lady. I was wondering what the Realms elven word would be for 'knight' and 'champion'. I am getting ready to run an elven campaign and thought that a few elven phrases and words might actually help to set the feel of the campaign. Thank you for your time, milady.

Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2007 :  18:45:31  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Well, Rich Baker has confirmed that Halaster's demise in Expedition to Undermountain will receive an entry in Grand History of the Realms.




Ah ... might that bit of information been better preceded by a "SPOILER WARNING"? I feel my enthusiasm for placing an advance order on Amazon waning already....


I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Reefy
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
892 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2007 :  21:26:51  Show Profile  Visit Reefy's Homepage  Click to see Reefy's MSN Messenger address Send Reefy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hail and well met again, fellow scribes. This time Ed makes answer to Reefy, in the matter of this query: “Greetings to Ed and the Lady Hooded One, I have two questions.
What can you tell me about the famed Agannazar? I'm interested in his appearance, personality, mannerisms etc.
The same goes for the mysterious Mistmaster.
I have mined what little printed sources on the subjects I can find.”
Ed replies:

*snip*

That do?


It most certainly will, many thanks.

Life is either daring adventure or nothing.
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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2007 :  17:40:12  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message
Hi Ed!
I hope your workload has eased up a bit, though from all I’ve read over these forums it probably hasn’t.
This is a damn long question. I’m sorry, but I have mined Evermeet, Cormanthor, FOMD, and the Last Mythral series for as much as I could before I asked. I don’t know what other books or supplements to look at.
I want to set up a near civil war type of political atmosphere in Evermeet over the question of the Return. We see this in Forsaken House with the council meetings but I want to develop it much further. I just don’t have enough information about a lot of the noble house’s political polices to develop sides.
I have 4 sides, “Retreat”/Conservative houses, “Return”/Progressing houses, “no public stance” houses, and “?” no idea what they would do houses. These is what I have for a break down with all the houses that I have found published
Conservative: Durothil, Starym (about to be Vyshaan’ed,hehe), Echorn, Dahast, Onglath, Ni’Tessine, Aelorothi, Evanara
Progressive: Ealoeth, Ildacier, Iliathorr, Llundar, Miritar, Silverspear, Amarillis, Eroth, Korianthil, Hawksong, Shaelara, Starcloak, Obryn,
No Public Opinion: Moonflower, Alastarra, Mistrivvin, Symbaern, Alenuath, Nightstar, Halador, Raerdrimne
?; Duirsar, Auglamyr, Aunglor, Le’Quella, Haevault, Omberdawn
Some I feel confident on, other I know are probably wrong, still others I know are probably vassal to more powerful clans and will be followers of their patron’s stance, and all the rest I haven’t seen enough published info on.
Would you care to help straighten out this spaghetti mess of a question?

Also what is a Dale council like? Is it like a palimentary meeting or is it more of a festhall atmosphere with deals going on over card tables, “lift-skirts” and in backrooms deals.



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Adrix
Acolyte

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2007 :  21:05:34  Show Profile  Visit Adrix's Homepage Send Adrix a Private Message
Neat Idea ... Good questions, Althen.

"Foaming flagons held up high, we salute those about to die ..."
- A toast overheard at the Yawning Portal Tavern, Waterdeep.

http://outlawdnd.blogspot.com
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2007 :  15:57:42  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all. Ed has returned from his delightful jaunt into Michigan, and returns to tackle a query from Jamallo Kreen: “Well met!
I have a question which I know Ed has partially answered in the past, but the Search function is over-burdened today so I can't find what Ed's already written.
I am interested in the Swordkrypt Mountains and their surroundings, i.e. from Neverwinter Wood to the Kryptgarden Forest, from Leilon northeast to Triboar (including the ruins of Phandalin), and northward from the Mere of Dead Men to the mountains themselves. I am interested in the heights of the mountains, how extensive their foothills are, what paths (if any) run through them, how well- (or ill-) forested they are, and what settlements currently exist on, in, and around them.
I have Volo's Guide to the North and The North pdf, the Dungeon Magazine adventure set in the Kryptgarden, and I know about the three (?) "worms of the north" in the area, so Ed doesn't need to rehash what he has already published in print. It's what's in his notes which he hasn't published that interests me.
Pretty please, Ed, tell us some more about the Swordkrypts and their surroundings.”
Ed replies:



I haven’t said much here at Candlekeep about these peaks, because of a long-outstanding NDA regarding Southkrypt, a dungeon I created and placed there in 1979, that TSR several times expressed interest in but that hasn’t yet been detailed in any canon Realmslore source.
As a result, I’m afraid I’m going to be rather brief in this reply. I can say that the Swordkrypt Mountains are high and bare rock spires at their seaward end, but as they march inland become rather low and glacially smoothed (akin to the real-world Appalachians of the eastern United States), with bare rock summits (peryton, eagle, and suchlike lairs, and many fissures that ice widens every year, to split off “pillars” of outlying rock and increase cavities (used by various beasts as lairs), and flanks and foothills cloaked in forests (à la [staying with the Appalachians] the Blue Ridge Mountains in the Shenandoah Valley vicinity, or the various peaks in southwestern Pennsylvania).
The Swordkrypt foothills aren’t extensive, but contain several abandoned quarries; paths and game-trails wind through their forested verges, but none “cross” the mountains or wander through them; the range forms an effective barrier, so travelers go around it by the seacoast road or well inland.
Thanks to outlaws and the numerous roaming monsters (raiding bands of which seem to be on the increase), plus the insect-infested swamps east of the Mere of Dead Men, no permanent settlements “currently exist on, in, and around them.” Exploring PCs will find the stone walls or foundations of some abandoned steadings, but no surviving human, elven, halfling, gnome, or dwarven habitation (there are a few “mountain cave hermit” families of various races, but they know better than to erect obvious buildings in the open; rather, they shift boulders in spring-fed caves to arrange defensible lairs—and even then, seldom survive for many seasons unless they keep moving, to avoid being trapped and massacred by the hobgoblin, orc, and goblin raiding bands that wander the range).


So saith Ed. I remember a brief foray into Southkrypt, but it did not go well. None of the majestic atmosphere of Undermountain, but all of the nastiness.
love to all,
THO
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2007 :  21:15:35  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
Many thanks, Master Ed. Lady Herald, I kiss the hand which has delivered such welcome lore!


I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2007 :  01:32:25  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Oh, JK, don't stop at my HAND!
And Penknight, a belated thanks for the good wishes. 'Twas Ed and his wife who were travelling, not me (I just dropped offline to do a little sideline task for my "silent" day job).
And (ahem) hi again, all. This time, Ed leaves the reins in my hands, to answer maelstrom58: “Well, far be it from me to refuse a lady's wishes...
Actually, this makes me think of another question (for THO): THO, did the players of the Knights of Myth Drannor ever run an evil party? If so, could you give us some highlights from the campaign? Thanks, Maelstrom”

You’re very welcome, avid scribe. Lick away, by all means. However, I’m afraid if you were seeking salacious details of evil deeds by a party of PCs I and my fellow players ran, you’re out of luck. Although from time to time one of us has played an evil NPC for a few minutes (following Ed’s written instructions, usually because he’s handling a cast of other NPCs who might have disputes with the one we’re running, and he wants negotiations or hostilities to develop without playing “all the sides” himself - - and because our own PCs are temporarily absent, dead, or disabled), we have never run an evil party. Sorry. Ed has always made the lives of, and challenges faced by, the Knights so darned fascinating that we’ve never had the interest in “trying on” the experience. Truly.
love,
THO
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2007 :  02:13:02  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

We're having a rather interesting discussion on other boards regarding the idea of incorporating Christianity into a DnD campaign (of one form or another, and yes it got rather heated)... When the question of if it could fit in the Realms came up. Well, I staunchly maintained that due to the monothesic nature of the Christian God (among other reasons), that it could only end in trouble.

Then someone said that the deity Ilmater could be said to be Jesus. His reasoning? Back in the 80s Ed wrote an article called "Building a Better Pantheon" and in that article, he stated that Ilmater was the deity from Lankhmar, Issek of the Jug. The writer of the Newhon stories, Fritz Leiber, aparently has said, many times, that Issek is Jesus. Therefore, Ilmater is Jesus. I countered this argument by citing another article from the 80s "Down to Earth Divinities" - where in Ed showed us which deity was based on which Earth deity, the main example I used was Sune and Aphrodite, and that since both deities exist in the Dungeons and Dragons metacosmology - even dwelling on the same plane at one point - that they weren't the same deity. Unfortunately the poster maintained that this meant nothing, and Ilmater was Issek was Jesus.

(I have the Dragon Archives CD sitting on my shelf somewhere, but I don't know where - there's a small part of my mind ticking at me that these two articles are the one and the same, and that of the two titles just cited, one is actually the title, and the other is the subtitle. I just can't be sure of that. *rumages about and finds discs 2 through 5* *grumbles* I bet the article was on disc 1.)

Anyway, the question is: was this Ed's intention? Is Ilmater really supposed to be Jesus the Christ?

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2007 :  02:27:11  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Aha. This one I can answer myself.
No, Ed was very careful to avoid "straight" Christian interpolations in the Realms (and before someone raises St. Cuthbert and the other placeholders, let me remind everyone that many faiths have had "saints" [by various names] long before Christianity existed). So Ilmater is NOT Jesus.
Nor did Fritz Leiber say "many times" that Issek is Jesus. This I know as bald fact because I was sitting beside Ed at a long-ago sf convention in which he and Fritz (dead now too many years ) discussed this very point. What Leiber actually said (in my hearing) is that Issek can "stand in" for the Christian martyr, "and be Jesus if you will" (in other words, to those who want such an element in their fantasy world, Issek can fill the role). So he can be Jesus to some if they want him to be, but neither Issek nor Ilmater are intended to be Jesus in disguise or alias, and only that.
None of which means that a gamer who wants to can't introduce "God" (Jehovah, Yahweh, etc. the One God of Christian belief) into the Realms. However, if that deity then sweeps away the pantheons of many gods, or has every last god be just one god using different masks, the result isn't the Realms anymore. Christians who want "God" to run things can of course have "Ao" be "God."
However, it would be a flat mistake to say that this is or was Ed's sole or hidden personal belief or intention. This has been much discussed among we "home" Realms players and Ed, over the years. Ed wants matters like this officially left "fuzzy" so the Realms can be a cozy home to the maximum number of gamers. In other words, so that every gamer or group of gamers can fill in the details to best suit themselves. (Ed believes in tolerance and acceptance of other faiths and specific beliefs far, far more than most modern-day Christian believers, many of whom seem to want to divide the world into "us" [the believers, meaning those whose beliefs match ours exactly] and "them" [everyone else].)
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 27 Jun 2007 02:39:49
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2007 :  02:38:26  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Aha. This one I can answer myself.
No, Ed was very careful to avoid "straight" Christian interpolations in the Realms (and before someone raises St. Cuthbert and the other placeholders, let me remind everyone that many faiths have had "saints" [by various names] long before Christianity existed). So Ilmater is NOT Jesus.
Nor did Fritz Leiber say "many times" that Issek is Jesus. This I know as bald fact because I was sitting beside Ed at a long-ago sf convention in which he and Fritz discussed this very point. What Leiber said is that Issek can "stand in" for the Christian martyr, "and be Jesus if you will" (in other words, to those who want such an element in their fantasy world, Issek can fill the role). So he can be Jesus to some if they want him to be, but neither Issek nor Ilmater are intended to be Jesus in disguise or alias, and only that.
None of which means that a gamer who wants to can't introduce "God" (Jehovah, Yahweh, etc. the One God of Christian belief) into the Realms. However, if that deity then sweeps away the pantheons of many gods, or has every last god be just one god using different masks, the result isn't the Realms anymore. Christians who want "God" to run things can of course have "Ao" be "God."
However, it would be a flat mistake to say that this is or was Ed's sole or hidden personal belief or intention. This has been much discussed among we "home" Realsm players and Ed, over the years. Ed wants matters like this officially left "fuzzy" so the Realms can be a cozy home to the maximum number of gamers. In other words, so that every gamer or group of gamers can fill in the details to best suit themselves. (Ed believes in tolerance and acceptance of other faiths far, far more than most modern-day Christian believers, many of whom seem to want to divide the world into "us" [the believers, meaning those whose beliefs match ours exactly] and "them" [everyone else].)
love to all,
THO



Thank you very much, dear Lady Hooded One!

I am not familiar with the works of Fritz Lieber, so this brings a touch more light to the subject for me on that front. Hopefully this will be sufficent for my sparring partner on the other board.

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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Faraer
Great Reader

3295 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2007 :  02:44:26  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message
Leiber was an atheist and the Issek cult is a satire on religion! That would be a weird path to a monotheistic Realms. They'd have a slightly stronger argument with Nobanion.

Edited by - Faraer on 27 Jun 2007 02:51:46
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2007 :  02:51:32  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Faraer is quite correct; the cult of Issek was indeed meant as a satire on religion. "A brick-subtle" one, to quote Mr. Leiber's words.
love,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 27 Jun 2007 02:52:41
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