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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 14:35:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
I, too, like to watch (she purred), when I’m not the one doing things worth watching (she winked).
love to all,
THO
I don't like to watch . . . I'm always "hands-on!" 
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 16:14:51
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Ah, a lady after my own heart . . . and thighs . . . and G-spot . . . 
love,
THO |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 22:53:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm so conflicted here... whatever I say, I know I'm going to end up disppointing one Lady or another. 
Say nothing, and watch. When they look your way, just be ready to do whatever they tell you to do. |
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createvmind
Senior Scribe
490 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 23:00:44
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Hello All,
During gaming last night I suddenly wondered, where do items go when a bag of holding or any such dimensional space is punctured and who's there to scoop them up? If I tried to find an object lost in such a way and used a spell what would I see when scrying the object? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 23:31:53
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quote:
Originally posted by createvmind
Hello All,
During gaming last night I suddenly wondered, where do items go when a bag of holding or any such dimensional space is punctured and who's there to scoop them up? If I tried to find an object lost in such a way and used a spell what would I see when scrying the object?
Well the question does not really belong here as a basic rules question, perhaps a moderator can move it and my reply to another scroll.
What occurs is a a rift or gate to the Astral Plane is torn in the space, and all items carried are lost. At least as per the core rules. Perhaps items of magic return to the Weave. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 14 Apr 2007 23:53:51 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 23:41:38
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| Why doesn't it belong here? Ed might have more to say then just it causes a rift in the Astral. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 00:23:16
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Warm winds.
I've been pondering on the life and looks of the dark elves before they got cursed for some time now. What was the main difference between the green elves and the dark elves in the regions around Illithiir? The dark elves build more groundlevel cities and lived in the deeper and darker parts of the jungles? Could Mr. Greenwood tell me about their architecture, military and symbolism?
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 01:18:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by createvmind
Hello All,
During gaming last night I suddenly wondered, where do items go when a bag of holding or any such dimensional space is punctured and who's there to scoop them up? If I tried to find an object lost in such a way and used a spell what would I see when scrying the object?
Well the question does not really belong here as a basic rules question, perhaps a moderator can move it and my reply to another scroll.
What occurs is a a rift or gate to the Astral Plane is torn in the space, and all items carried are lost. At least as per the core rules. Perhaps items of magic return to the Weave.
I think it's alright here for the time being. I'm curious to hear Ed's thoughts on this...
Besides, we can always shift it later if Ed says he can't provide much more insight on this particular question.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 01:36:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade
Another lore question for the Master: what sort of reputation does Caladnei enjoy, "right now" (published Realms time) with the younger generations of Cormyr's nobles (20-ish to children)? I know nobles don't tend to look too kindly on Mages Royal, but I suspect she's not feared nearly as much as Vangey.
Once again, I step in for the Master whilst he is away for a few moments. Let us hope this Underfoot Underscribe of the Understairs doesn't warrant too many lashes for butting in...
In "When Shadows Come Seeking A Throne" (from the Realms of Shadow anthology) it's made pretty clear how much of the nobility in general view Caladnei: she is a stripling with little right to be in her position, no political acumen, and either an obstacle to be overcome or a nuisance to be ignored. Most nobles see Laspeera as Vangerdahast's rightful successor, and--with regard to her ability to influence Crown policies concerning magic, to command the War Wizards, and to generally scare the populace with the notion of mages lurking in dark corners learning every treasonous secret or thought they might harbor--are largely correct. Caladnei is a mage to be watched for her temper and pure magical power, but not for her savvy at Court.
To the younger nobles, Caladnei is something of an unknown quantity. They were raised on their father's tales of Vangerdahast's capable brotherhood rooting around in their thoughts, and grandfather's stories of Old Thunderspells' reordering of the War Wizards and the smoking demises of other mages who were considered powerful before he arried to assume his position. Amorous young noblemen (eldest and second sons, mostly) look at Caladnei as an exotic prize to be won; beautiful and fiery now, she might later be a useful tool in influencing the boy-king Azoun V. Less foreward, yet ambitious younger nobles look at Caladnei as a potential ally or tool in their future dealings, but quietly observe and make no moves just now. The wise and loyal simply watch, waiting to see if Caladnei stumbles, if Vangerdahast's judgements about her were wrong, or if some fell influence uses her inexperience as a road to damage the Dragon Throne.
None, however, look at Caladnei with fear just yet. They know her to be a capable battle-mage, proficient with weapons and tactics not normally found around spellcasters, and so don't relish the notion of direct confrontation. But the nobility have not yet developed any sort of trepidation of Caladnei's motives or strategems. They are too busy worrying what Vangerdahast instructed Laspeera to do on his retirement, or that the Old Snoop is still running things from behind the great purple curtain... |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 02:23:25
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Beautifully put, Garen Thal. I ferried your reply to Ed, and he fired back a response:
Perfect! Saves me firing up the old keyboard; couldn't have put it better myself. Dead on.
So, Blueblade, consider this one answered.
love to all,
THO
Who hasn't forgotten her duty; pray heed my next message, which brings Ed's lore response for this day.
Oh, and Sage: PDK was right; say nothing. The Lady K and I can probably both think of better uses for your mouth. |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 15 Apr 2007 02:25:07 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 02:28:32
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Ahem.
Hi again, scribes.
Lest you think Ed is only answering questions posted here in the last few weeks, it’s back to the year 2005 this time, to a series of questions posted by CorranH: “I also posted the below in the DM forum. But I discovered this forum and since the questions below pertain to books by Mr. Greenwood, I hope you won't mind me posting the same questions here.
I will be starting a new Forgotten Realms campaign soon and it will be set in the Western Heartlands. To be precise in a village (of my own making) on the south bank of the River Reaching, upstream of Hill’s Edge. The campaign will start somewhere around 1366 DR and (hopefully) last at least until 1373 DR.
I’ve been reading up on the area in all the books I have (most of all the published FR material), and a few questions remain. I hope someone more knowledgeable than me in FR canon can help me with these.
Skull Gorge is just upstream and there seems to be a lot of conflicting information about it. All books tell about it being the final stand after the Battle of Bones (the best source: Elminster’s Ecologies). However, some state that since the gorge has been empty, home to goblinoids, home to monsters (either of the last 2 options in some cases under Zhent control) or, hinted at in the 3rd Edition FRCS, fiends. The Tashara of the Seven Skulls article (Dragon 206, page 76) says one of the seven skulls resides there with a number of monsters. All this can’t quite be explained by it being in a certain chronological order. If anyone could shine some light on this that would be much appreciated.
Also, on one of the maps of the Interactive Atlas it shows something called the ‘Misty Stair’ just downstream of the Skull Gorge. It’s very likely this is a waterfall; however I can find no reference at all to this in any book. Anyone know where I can find any information?
Forgotten Realms Adventures, page 121: ‘Zhent “Long Road to Riches:” a controlled caravan route from Zhentil Keep to the Sword Coast, via the Tesh valley, Daggerdale, the Stonelands, the Desertsedge and Goblin Marches, Yellow Snake Pass (guarded by the great Zhentarim fortress of Darkhold), Skull Gorge, Dawn Pass, Llorkh, Loudwater, and the River Delimbiyr.
Volo’s Guide to the Sword Coast, page 123; ‘Feuding tribes of giants dwell in the Hill of Lost Souls and the Battle of Bones (two craggy areas named for past human struggles). The giants battle endlessly over the rolling grasslands between the two areas.’
So, how do the Zhent on their ‘Long Road’ get past the giants, since it seems to be directly in their path? Do they pay the giants to leave them alone, have they dominated them? Skirting around them seems unlikely. BTW, on the new 3rd edition map, the Skull Gorge ends pointing south, below the Hill of Lost Souls, making the ‘Long Road’ even crazier. Is the Trade Way really that dangerous to take for them?
The FRCS, page 225 says about the Zhents in Yellow Snake Pass; ‘until early in 1372 DR., when Thayan wizards and mercenaries from Hill's Edge drove the patrols into cavern shelters in the Underdark. For the moment, Yellow Snake Pass is free.’
The Bane – Cyric strife within the Zhents had already made me decide that Darkhold (being Cyricist controlled) has split from the ‘Eastern’ Zhents in all but name. The 3rd edition books aren’t quite clear if this split is a reality. The question that comes to mind is; if Darkhold is alone now and no longer receiving caravans from Zhentil Keep (they focus on the Dark Road) what are they going to do? They have no industry, so caravans (and smuggling) to the Sword Coast seems unlikely. What will be their focus?
Also, what is the weather like in this region? I like the weather table they used in the Silver Marches supplement; I might use the River Valley entry from it, but might that be a bit too cold?
Finally question (I see I have rambled quite a bit already); what kind of fish would be found in the River Reaching between Hill’s Edge and Skull Gorge?
Thanks.”
Ed replies:
Okay, here we go. :}
First off, I apologize greatly for the delay. There were plans to set key battle scenes in a one-shot FR novel in the Class series in Skull Gorge, later superceded by plans to have a hidden citadel located in the gorge in ANOTHER FR novel, so I had to just keep quiet and wait (until first one and then the other notions were set aside by others, in favour of other ideas).
Skull Gorge is indeed a large gorge through which the River Reaching runs, and the Misty Stair is a series of cascades or waterfalls (surrounded by an everpresent mist of spray created by water rebounding up from its rocks) upstream of it.
The river is icy-cold (shocks breath from creatures falling in, carries them away swiftly throughout its run from the Stair to below the Gorge, which are the spawning areas for dreel (short, fat, green-black river eels that live on algae and carrion, and keep the river waters clean and clear; they taste like mucous, but are quite nourishing, and if fried with the right herbs or spices, can be nice; due to their appearance, they are sometimes called “trollfingers”), dartflash (small-human-palm-sized, bony silver fish that swim in short, very fast “darting” straight-ahead ruhes, and are usually netted or scooped; edible and usually steamed until the bones are soft enough to crunch and eat, though a human adult needs a helm-full pile to make a meal) and mursk (fat, slow-moving green-brown fish that are unpleasantly oily in taste, but can be fried to skim off oil that will burn in lamps “as is”). These three creatures range all the way down the River, though overfishing has made mursk almost unknown in its lower reaches.
The weather table I created for SILVER MARCHES (it got modified and improved greatly by Wizards, probably by Rich Baker) is usable for this area, but in summer months is a tad too cold; winds blowing across the desert create cold extremes in winter and brief hot spells in summer, so in summer roll two dice, the second being a d6, upon which any odd number means use that table, but “even” means substitute a much warmer weather result of your choice.
In a word, weather in this region is: windy (down to gentle breezes at night), so there are frequent weather changes.
Right: on to Skull Gorge. Yes, it was the site of a legendary “last stand,” and for years haunted by undead as a result, which kept it empty of most other life. Hobgoblins eventually moved in, led by shamans who managed to deal with the undead, but disputes arose among the hobgoblins and they warred amongst themselves.
For a long period of time after that, a succession of various wandering goblin, orc, hobgoblin, and even bugbear bands took up residence in the Gorge, fought with and drove out whoever was already living there, and were in turn supplanted by the “next wave” of opportunistic invaders. The fish were plentiful, and so were huge numbers of birds nesting on ledges, who could be driven off with sticks or flung debris and their eggs taken; the krawthant and smokewings in particular simply go on laying eggs until they manage to hatch a chick or die trying, so their eggs can be taken again and again.
From time to time wandering monsters happened along and decided the Gorge would make an ideal home for THEM (being as it has food, water, and shelter in the form of almost a dozen shallow “fissure” caves in the gorge walls). On most occasions the resident goblinoids slew the monsters, but sometimes the monster or monsters prevailed - - until the NEXT goblinoid band or more powerful monsters happened along. Wyverns nesting nearby regularly raided, devouring anything they could catch sufficiently “in the open,” and their depredations took care of some of the more formidable monsters.
In this manner, the Gorge changed hands repeatedly over the years, until the Zhentarim started to scout the area, and started basing a succession of “magelings” (low-level wizards of Zhentil Keep desiring to “prove their worth” and rise in the ranks of the Zhentarim) in the Gorge who were given magic items with which to control bands of monsters (often hobgoblins or orcs) to patrol the lands around, keeping predatory roaming monsters away and running off or slaying anyone who wasn’t a Zhent, or part of their caravan operations. Aside from defending the Gorge itself from intrusion, their patrols were confined to the area between the Gorge and Anauroch, avoiding the Well of Dragons.
Many of the Zhent magelings were cruel, overambitious fools, and either attracted attention by “sideline” activities in Corm Orp or Hill’s Edge designed to enrich themselves personally (slaving, drug-running, kidnappings for ransom, protection rackets), and so were eliminated by senior Zhentarim, or tried to eliminate the warring giants to the north (that upper-rank Zhentarim wanted to remain as deterrent to humans or others seeking to prospect or establish trade routes or try to settle in the area) or take on other perils in the area (dragons, wyverns, etc.) and paid the price.
So they died, frequently, often with most of the patrols they were commanding (and in a few cases, at the hands of those same patrols).
The Long Road caravans didn’t traverse the Gorge (aside from a rare handful of experiments in barging goods down the River Reaching; rare because Scornubel proved to be a den of far too many powerful rivals for the Zhents to take on, and defeat, all at once); they passed it by to the east, skirting the western Desertsedge; the Gorge was part of the “wall of deterrents” the Zhents wanted to keep between their trade-route and prying eyes (and swords) of rivals.
Skull Gorge was reconquered by the Zhents on many occasions, though their grip on it weakened as divisions developed within the Brotherhood; the skull (of Tashara’s seven) took up residence, with spell-controlled monsters of its own and its magical “giant flying skull” image, during one interlude between periods of Zhent control, slaughtered several Zhent magelings sent to retake the Gorge, and retreated (present whereabouts unknown) when the Zhents sent a small group of accomplished wizards with a few spell-controlled death tyrants.
More recently, the Zhent grip on the Gorge weakened still more (again due to strife within the Zhentarim), fiends were summoned by some Zhent wizards seeking to rule the Gorge (wizards who perished, leaving the fiends lurking there), and with effective Zhent control gone, a temple to Velsharoon (The Crypt of the Arisen Army) was established in the Gorge.
The ultimate Zhent aim involving Skull Gorge was, however, achieved: the area has a firm reputation as “dangerous, haunted, and crawling” with all manner of monsters (just pick your wild story), and nearby settlements such as Hill’s Edge and Corm Orp wouldn’t dream of trying to found ranches or prospect for metals anywhere near the Gorge, or the wilderlands to its east.
Of course, in the meantime, the Black Road route across Anauroch was established, shortening the Zhent “faster, privately-controlled” caravan route between the Moonsea and the Sword Coast.
The Long Road, that skirts Anauroch, was established purely because the Zhents of the day were too weak to magically exterminate or control the Bedine AND the natural perils of the desert (the city of Shade is, of course, a recent complication in all of this). Yes, its route is long and torturous, but preferable to the longer and far more expensive “public” routes through Cormyr, Iriaebor, et al because the Zhents could move weapons, armor, battle-ready mercenaries, drugs, slaves, and other items that rulers of places long the public route might stop, seize, or make war on the Zhents because of.
The Zhentarim DO have magic enough to make both tribes of giants simply shun their passing caravans (allowing them through where others, not specifically magically equipped for such a passage, cannot). Yes, many Zhent goods DO just appear on the Trade Way through Soubar and other stops, or are dispersed through Scornubel, but again, the illicit nature of the majority of the most profitable shipping makes bringing such goods through places the Zhents came to control or dominate (Llorkh, Loudwater), and then via barge past most scrutiny until they can leave Zhent hands, preferable to the Trade Way or other “public” caravan routes.
The establishment of the Black Road, and changing priorities within the Zhentarim (the “make us all rich” overland trade project was a chief goal of the Zhentarim WIZARDS, not the later Fzoul-dominated priest/beholder cabal; the beholders formerly sided with Manshoon, but turned against him when they saw this project and others becoming seeming obsessions, and turning the Brotherhood away from THEIR goals, which remain largely mysterious [and heavily under NDA protection].
CorranH, you are quite correct in saying that Darkhold “split from the ‘Eastern’ Zhents in all but name.”
The 3rd edition books weren’t quite clear on the specifics of this, for as long as possible, in order to give DMs maximum freedom in handling this as they wanted to in their own campaigns.
Here are some of the things an “isolated” Darkhold can do: act as a gathering place (and breeding pens) for slaves, and the magical alteration of slaves, and then ship them out for sale (perhaps primarily down into the Underdark). Act as a defended transfer point for goods from the Underdark being shipped into the World Above, and vice versa. Become a drug, poison, perfume, and drinkables (fortified wines, zzar “with something extra,” and other exotic, expensive “doctored” drinks) manufacturing center and shipping source. Train wizards and send them forth on covert missions to coerce or slay wealthy individuals in Amn and Tethyr, and successful “shady” traders in Scornubel, and gain access to their businesses and property.
All of which, of course, would make Darkhold a prime target for Red Wizard infiltration and takeover.
And who’s to say the beholders of the Brotherhood, or the Underdark interests, would let the Red Wizards get away with that? What if Zhents who had to flee Darkhold for their lives decide it would be wise to stay in hiding, wherever else they are, and hire or compel adventurers to “go in” and try to wrest Darkhold back from the Thayans?
Moreover, there are ancient and fell magics hidden in Darkhold that neither the Zhents nor the Red Wizards control. What if they awaken, and take a hand in the conflict in some way?
Heh-heh. Hope that’s enough of a focus for your campaign, and that it doesn’t come too late. (Or perhaps for a new campaign . . .)
So saith Ed. Wow, now THERE’S a campaign-building answer. It takes Ed a while, sometimes (with very good reasons, as we saw), but he delivers. With a big smile on his face. In the dead of night, on your doorstep. (As I know personally ).
love to all,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 02:45:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Oh, and Sage: PDK was right; say nothing. The Lady K and I can probably both think of better uses for your mouth.
Then I shall willfully surrender myself to the delicate mercies of you both, my Ladies... 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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createvmind
Senior Scribe
490 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 03:01:28
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 01:11:30
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Hi again, fellow scribes. Ed deals with another vintage question this time, one posed by darqravenDD in early February of 2005: “Mr. Greenwood, I have placed this question in a couple different places (including a different place on this forum) and was told by Ms Elaine Cunningham that you Sir the one to ask this of. As you are the final word on Forgotten Realms Lore.
I ask this of you here, because I wish to know the Offical Standing per date. Many wonderfully helpful people have given their thoughts on this. And though it may seem I am just asking and asking till I get the answer I am looking for, that is not the case. I simply ask you now Sir, because you ARE the final word on the matter and speak with the power of WotC behind you.
There for I place this before you, Sir:
In the current standings of the Realms, Would Lolth allow a male of exceptional merit to become a Cleric/High Priest of her ways? And would the Female Drow allow such?
I know that he would not have the same standing as a Female in his place. And the interactions between them would be very very interesting.
I am well aware that they are others Deities that would grant a Male Drow clerical power. One good example would be Laveth (Lolth's daughter as per Dragon Issue 84), but I am interested in Lolth, not the others. What is the Offical standing on this?
I am also aware that in the past.. it was allowed (2nd Ed rules).
If you would be so kind to tell us your thoughts on the matter.
Thank you for your time.. and I look forward to your answers, as they will help me greatly in a storeline I am working on.
darqravenDD
PS: I just thought of a side question: Would Lolth even worry about a Male Cleric/High Priest if he started to interrupt her plans?”
Ed replies:
I must begin my belated answer by saying flatly that I can’t give you any sort of “Official” answer, and I DON’T speak with “the power of WotC behind” me (though that sounds as if it might be fun, especially if bellowed from horseback, riding through a moonlit night with gleaming sword brandished in hand).
One of the reasons this reply has taken so long is my reluctance to try to even tackle “rules” questions; for those, you need to consult Wizards. Another is my long, slow attempt to do so on your behalf, by asking various staff designers their opinions at conventions.
Here’s the result:
Yes, Lolth WOULD allow a male of exceptional merit to become a Cleric/High Priest in her faith. The key words here are “of exceptional merit.” In other words, he’s going to be a very, very rare exception to the norm.
No, female drow he met with would universally NOT recognize his standing, or aid him, if Lolth didn’t flatly, firmly, and openly tell them to (speaking in their heads or manifesting directly). He would be hated and almost certainly attacked (to kill), and regarded as a madwits if they didn’t receive Lolth’s assurances, and a freak if they did.
Note that I’m making generalizations as to female drow attitudes towards him here, and considering only those female drow who venerate Lolth; other drow females might not react with such swift hostility (unless the male drow priest of Lolth attacked them, or announced his status and attempted to cajole, coerce, or otherwise hamper them).
I’m not sure that Lolth would “worry” about a male (drow, I assume) male cleric/high priest (of her faith, I assume) “if he started to interrupt her plans,” but she WOULD have agents (such as other mortal drow) deal with him, promptly and harshly. Her dominance succeeds through tyranny; those who defy her or her aims must be seen to be punished horribly by her worshippers, so that they’ll continue to obey her with alacrity.
So saith Ed. Tireless delver into ever-richer and -deeper facets and layers of the Realms.
love to all,
THO
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 15:09:07
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Emboldened by the swift reply to my last question (thanks, Garen Thal!), I have a new "double" one:
How much does the "average" shopkeeper in Suzail (who doesn't travel outside Cormyr) know about Waterdeep?
And how much does the "average" Waterdhavian stay-at-home shopkeeper know about Cormyr?
Where do they learn what they "know" from, and are there any really prevalent (held by lots of folk) misconceptions?
Thanks! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 17:25:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade
Emboldened by the swift reply to my last question (thanks, Garen Thal!), I have a new "double" one:
How much does the "average" shopkeeper in Suzail (who doesn't travel outside Cormyr) know about Waterdeep?
And how much does the "average" Waterdhavian stay-at-home shopkeeper know about Cormyr?
Where do they learn what they "know" from, and are there any really prevalent (held by lots of folk) misconceptions?
Thanks!
Ed answered basically this same question, which the other poster also posted almost word for word, on March 22nd of this year. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 18:44:01
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Well met!
I thank our Lady Herald and the Master of the Green Wood for giving me the answers to some of my questions this month, but now I must tread gently, for my questions today concern Ed's most favoritist subject: the gods. (Yeah ... I know ... what's new?) And to heap even more blessings upon Ed, the questions involve game mechanics ... 3.5 game mechanics. Alas, however, I feel that Ed's by far the most qualified Loremaster to answer them, so I charge forward, natheless:
SPOILER WARNING REGARDING THE AGE OF WORMS ADVENTURE PATH! CAVEAT LECTOR!
The Age of Worms Adventure Path concludes in issue 135 of Dungeon Magazine, and Eric L. Boyd has written articles and web enhancements which allow it to be played in Faerun (including Chult). In the adaptation, Kyuss becomes a minor Chultan god worshipped by only a few cultists (at first, anyway!). The final article, by Tito Leati, has Kyuss written up as a Divine Rank 1 demigod, with the domains of Corruption, Death, Destruction, and Evil, and a presumed portfolio of undead creation, worms and similar vermin, and the corruption of flesh (oozes and slimes are already taken by another deity, of course!).
While I think that Kyuss has been given too many domains (according to Deities and Demigods, he ought only to have three, 'tho Lolth has an extra "Extra Domain," too), it's his domains and portfolio about which my first question is concerned: if Kyuss, a Chultan demigod, is killed by mortals, would they be eligible for elevation to godhood by Ao (using TSR's ToT logic, informed by your uber-wisdom), and if so, would they inherit his domains or his portfolio or both, or only his divine spark, being left to become the gods they want to be? (I can't see a lawful good character killing Kyuss and then relishing the prospect of having the domains of Evil and Corruption dropped in his lap, nor a good cleric or paladin wanting to become a divine patron of undeath!)
Second, since killing Kyuss is a Herculean task (pun intended), and would probably involve a team of adventurers, would they all become eligible for divinity, or just the one who delivered the final death blow, and if it's divided up, would they all become DR 1 demigods, or would the divine spark be spread so thin that they all become DR 0 quasi-deities? I know how I presently intend to run it, if my players ever succeed in doing it, but I greatly value your opinion on this, Ed, and want to make my campaign as "Realmsian" as possible, even though there is no way in the Fugue Plain that you'd ever run this adventure path for your players.
Cyric and Midnight took out greater deities and became greater gods themselves, which leads to my third query, one which may extend beyond the realm of NDA and into the cosmic sphere of "it's none of your business, mortal!" If a mortal obtains divinity by killing a god, does he or she become the same Divine Rank as the deceased, or might Ao (who can do anything s/he wants!) raise the mortal to an even higher rank or place him at a lower rank (for some inscrutable reason unfathomable to the gods themselves)?
Fourth (and finally!), the Hand of Vecna makes an appearance in this adventure path, along with a high-ranking cleric of Vecna. Eric's adaptation makes Myrkul stand in for Vecna, but there just ain't no Hand of Myrkul artifact, and the [i]Crown of Horns[i] might not do as a substitute. Master Ed of the Realms, is it possible that Vecna finally has a small toehold on Toril and can grant spells there, or is it more likely that some other deity is impersonating him and granting spells in his name to his poor, ignorant cleric?
I apologize for such a long post, but the AoW, like a thoroughbred, involves a substantial involvement of money and a HUGE investment of time, and I don't want to reach the home stretch and then have the campaign suddenly pull up lame. Your insights and opinions on this would be dearly welcomed by me, Ed, and I hope that my players will appreciate your contribution to the final product.
Now, dear Lady Herald, I wouldst not that thou shouldst get carpal tunnel syndrome retyping all of this (okay, cutting and pasting it), so do thou feel free to pare my questions to the bone when thou revealest Ed's answers to us. Grammercy!
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 23:43:29
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Sorry, Kuje. I must have missed both the question and the reply. Gahh. And I thought I was following this thread avidly.
Well, then, my NEXT question for the hopper, instead...
How do the nobles of the rebellious, oft-conquered cities of Arabel and Marsember generally regard the nobles of the rest of Cormyr, and vice versa? I'm not asking for individual friendships, hatreds, and love-matches here, just general attitude/status? Any distinctions drawn, at all?
Thanks!
(As you can tell, my Cormyr-based campaign is hotting up.) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 23:45:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade
Sorry, Kuje. I must have missed both the question and the reply. Gahh. And I thought I was following this thread avidly.
No prob. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2007 : 04:19:32
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Hello again everyone. This time I bring you the words of Ed of the Greenwood in response to this post from Delzounblood: “ED & THO
I have been thinking of asking this question for a while and I have even posted it on the boards for the other scribes to coment on.
For the past 5 years I have been off and on studying Ancient History and Lesser Known Theories of Mankind. (I know big subject!) I have been re-reading one of my favorite Non-fiction Books on this subject, and with a couple of points raised I wondered if anything similar had happened in the realms?
The book is Fingerprints of the Gods by Graham Hancock.
In the section I was reading the book discusses ancient Andean and Incan civilisations and their step up from Un-civilised Barbarians to the earliest know civilised cultures.
This seems to be the work of One man if you follow Andean legend or a group of men from the same culture.
In most places they named him Ticci Viracocha though he had many other names including Huaracocha, Con, Con Ticci or Kon Tiki, Thunupa etc.
This man or men came and taught the barbaric tribes Math, Writing, Agriculture and gave them all the skills needed for a cultured, civilized life!
Then left and went forth into the sea....
The main questions:
Has there been any canon or anything hinted at that would reflect or in some way mirror the Andean Legend of this Foam of the Sea, Master of Science & Magic (as he is known) in early Toril history?
Did the races of Faerun have divine influence that could incorporate this legend in any way?
I am thinking more of the Old Empires or maybe the Maztican Empire etc:
I know FR is not a reflection of Real World, but I always find some mirror of a legend able to fit and adapt into game terms.
Maybe a manifestation / avatar of one God or another shaping their favored race?
Or as per the book hinted but an unknown super advanced race which for reasons unknown traveled around Toril on a civilizing mission?
Your thoughts and any canon please.
Thanks Delz”
Ed replies:
There are lots of “strange tales” from the distant past that hint at “odd outlanders arriving, doing wondrous (or terrible) things, and departing again,” and that’s hardly surprising in a world wherein so many races have jostled for dwelling-space and supremacy, and magic works and is used so often by so many of them (AND so often dramatically, or recklessly, or tumultuously).
However, what there ISN’T is a shared sense of just one “unknown super advanced race” travelling about. Many races in a given locale, at different times in history, have shared tales about, and either argued about or “believed in” (shared a common belief), various different groups of visitors doing various things (sometimes gifting local persons with things, sometimes “settling” wars or installing or supporting rulers, sometimes toppling and replacing them). Tales of mortal heroes rising to found empires or make ideas into a new reality (social custom or technological advance or practical process) are common, but tales of gods “coming down” to do so are more rare. Folk of Faerûn seem to like or prefer gods who inspire or guide mortals rather than gods who “come and do things to” mortals - - and their tales reflect this.
Priests are taught “holy history” that attests that this or that god (usually their own) did indeed shape the destinies of races by causing this or that event (natural disasters, victories in war, ascensions or falls of prominent rulers, and so on). However, the holy histories of one church inevitably contradict that of another, and no coherent picture emerges that can lead a truly objective observer to say, “This tale, that one, and these three holy histories are really all about the same being.”
On the other hand, most mortals, in Faerûn as elsewhere, aren’t ‘truly objective observers.’ So there are many cults, cabals, priesthoods, small regional groups, and just plain folks across the Realms who DO share beliefs that this and that tale, coupled with the teachings of yonder church, “prove” X or Y.
There’s nothing to stop you putting a civilizing Walker From The Sea (who later returns to it) into your Realms campaign as “X” (or “Y”). In this way, the Realms is indeed flexible enough to mirror the Real World (whatever that is :}). Many churches are fond of saying “This Long-ago Local Hero was in reality an Avatar of Our Deity, or Inspired by Our Deity,” and although this is usually countered by multiple other faiths saying, “No, That Same Long-ago Local Hero was in reality an Avatar of OUR Deity, or Inspired by Our Deity, Not Yours,” if those rival faiths dwindle or are absent in a given area, than the sort of figure you posit belief in will indeed become “accepted as truth” in that given area.
Go for it, and have fun, and keep watching canon closely; one never knows just what might turn up.
So saith Ed. Who is NOT hinting furiously with his last sentence, but merely reminding everyone to keep their minds open (there’s more room in an open mind than a closed one for new ideas, as the saying goes).
love to all,
THO
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2007 : 07:53:11
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Good morning Sweet Lady, I have another question for Ed.
Looking through some old monsters I came over the Ormyrr again and I started to wonder; what role do these creatures play in the ruins of Myth Drannor and how did they arrive in the area? Are there any more bits of lore about this creature you would be willing to share with us? |
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ijkay
Acolyte
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2007 : 19:59:52
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Good afternnoon our Lady of the Hood.
It has been a long time since I posted a question but I have a few dwarven questions to add to the growing mountain for the All-Knowing Ed.
Basically I am designing a campaign around the quest for pieces of an artifact that dates back to Tanak Sharak and the founding of Shanatar. I want the pieces to be in various locations in ancient dwarven realms across Faerun so I am seeking info about ancient dwarven realms, specifically:
1.In FR11 you noted Sarphil was founded at the eastern edge of the Moonsea and spread along the southern edge and eventually into the Dragonspines to the north. C:EotE dates the founding at –7500. I am guessing this was a shield dwarf kingdom (given the clan Hillsafar reference) If so from where was it founded? Ohgrann is listed in various references as being founded in –5215 and as being the first colony of Shanatar. My best guess to this one is that some clans of Shanatar responded to the collapse of the cavern of Bhaerynden in –7600 along with the ancestors of the gold dwarf race. The Shanatar dwarves were rebuffed (We would never have been driven out if you hadn’t left!) and headed north to eventually found Sarphil.
2.FR11 has Sarphil collapsing because of an attack by drow and duergar. C:EotE and other sources dates this to –4400 calling the event the Dark Court Slaughter. Given most resources (Demihuman Deities, Races of Faerun) date the major rebellion of duergar against their illithid masters to –4000 how were they involved in this attack? My best guess is that the drow formed an alliance with the illithids of Oryndoll for access to legions of duergar thralls. The combined armies attacks Sarphil and the surface elves. While C:EotE indicates Sarphil was split into ‘two occupied realms’, my bet is the drow turned on the illithid slavemasters, killed them and drove the duergar away. Recognizing their military ability the ‘freed’ duegar legions returned to lead the rebellions resulting in the freedom of most duergar by –4000.
3.How was the Kingdom of Sarphil organized? Was every portion of the kingdom overrun during the invasion? FR11 indicates indicates it covered quite a large area but ‘never had clear borders’. I’m interpreting this as a loose collection of city-states and clanholds located where resources were plentiful connected by trade routes. My guess in this case is the ‘capital’ of the kingdom (which moved several times in the history of the kingdom) was responsible for maintaining the trade routes. At the time of the invasion, the capital lay beneath Cormanthyr (in the cavern where Maerimydra grew to be). The capital and nearby settlements were utterly destroyed. Without the central organization of the capital (and the maintenance of trade routes) the other cities and holds either shrank away to nothing or became very insular and hidden.
4.Are the dwarves of Ironfang Keep (Orsraun Mountains), Earthfast, and old Roldilar heirs of Sarphil as well as the isolated holds mentioned in the Dragonspine Mountains?
5.The 2nd ed PGtFR indicates Thunderhome was part of or founded by dwarves of Sarphil. (given the emblem of Sarphil was on its door) Which was it and when was it founded?
6.Was the realm of Dareth a shield dwarf realm before the coming of the Adbar dwarves? If so from where did they come? I ask this one because FR11 says from worked out holds in the mountains south and west of Unther and Mulhorand and founded about 4000 summers ago (about –2643) so it could be a gold dwarf migration.
7.Did the realm of Ohgrann have any holdings in the eastern peaks of the Stormhorns adjacent to the Lake of Dragons?
8.Can you offer any insight into the source of the ‘madness’ that led to the fall of Haunghdannar? FR5 and the North timeline by George Krashos hint toward something in/around Rethgaard/Inthar (isles of Rauthym) but I am at a loss of what it might be.
9.What exactly were Diirinka and Diinkarazan the deities of at the time of the founding of the subkingdoms of Shanatar? Are there any dwarven myths as to what caused their fall/exile?
10.Can you give any hints as to what caused the decline in birth rates that led to the decline in dwarven influence on the realms? I am guessing it was divine in nature (given the thunderblessing is as well) but would appreciate any details you can offer. At what point in time did the birth rate decline (or become noticeable)?
If any other sages can answer or point to a reference to save Ed and his Lady the time I would appreciate it. I have access to all FR resources except some of the magazines.
Thanks, Ian Franks |
Ian Franks
"So I thought to myself who gives a damn if all the jobs are gone, I'm going to be a Pirate on the River Saskatchewan!", The Arrogant Worms |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2007 : 03:39:05
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Hi again, fellow scribes. This time I bring Ed’s reply to this recent query from createvmind: “Hello All, During gaming last night I suddenly wondered, where do items go when a bag of holding or any such dimensional space is punctured and who's there to scoop them up? If I tried to find an object lost in such a way and used a spell what would I see when scrying the object?”
Ed replies:
I’m going to begin by assuming your question specifies “in the Realms.” Otherwise, it’s literally (ahem) not my bag. :}
Kentinal is quite correct in both his rules reply AND his “perhaps” suggestion.
[THO Interjection: Kentinal’s relevant words: “What occurs is a rift or gate to the Astral Plane is torn in the space, and all items carried are lost. At least as per the core rules. Perhaps items of magic return to the Weave.”]
The bag of holding or other magical dimensional pocket is destroyed, irrevocably and forever, and the energies of its destruction “burn” a very temporary (lasting less than a round) hole in the dimensional ether, causing a rift into the Astral Plane.
Any and all contents of the collapsing extra-dimensional space are violently scattered - - (“sucked,” whirled, etc.) not in a way that damages the contents by impact with anything, because they’re individually shielded by flows of energy swirling around them, but in a way that whisks them away so swiftly that no one and no spell can hope to “snatch and hold” any of them - - away, as the energies of the plane (I’m going to assume here, for the sake of keeping this answer to under a web-thread-page in length, that we’re talking the Realms, as Prime Material, being the “plane” in which the bag or other dimensional space is located or opened into, prior to collapse) rush in, to “heal the rift” by equalizing pressure with the Astral (I’m speaking more metaphorically than physically here, to most clearly illustrate “what happens” from the point of view of observers on the prime plane). So the items vanish, too quickly to be grabbed, and the rift closes, only a little more slowly.
It’s rare, with a bag of holding or other dimensional space of similar or smaller size, for any living creature to be “sucked through the rift” unless they are directly in contact with it AND WANT TO GO THROUGH, * AND * so do exactly the right thing (turning and aiming themselves, limbs together like a diver seeking to plunge through a small opening or deep into water, so as to fit through the rift before it closes and the roiling energies hurl them aside), OR they are already reaching into the bag or are partially in the dimensional space, grasping one or more of the contents, and ALLOW THEMSELVES to be “towed” through the rift by refusing to let go of the item. (A DM shouldn’t give players much time to make a decision here OR debate it with other players; their character has literally seconds to act, one way or another.)
Magic items (including “normal” items that have simply had a [perhaps limited-duration] spell cast on them, like the famous rock with a light spell on it) are the exception to this “whisked anywhere, and lost” rule. I’ll get back to them in a moment.
Before I explore THAT funhouse, I’d like to quickly deal with the other two questions you pose: “who's there to scoop them up?” and “If I tried to find an object lost in such a way and used a spell what would I see when scrying the object?”
The answer to the first is: whatever beasties you want to be there, depending on where a particular item of the “lost” contents go - - and that depends on the cosmology you’re using, prior events in your campaign (did adventurers from the Realms enter this same new-destination plane recently?), and where the DM deems that item to have gone. Usually everything gets sprayed, shotgun-blast-like, from a given entry point out into the Astral Plane. However, the violence of the rift may well open other rifts, into other planes, or the rift and trajectory of a given item departing it may be sufficiently close to a pre-existing planar transfer from the Astral to another plane, to send the item on elsewhere, so that it flashes momentarily through the Astral and then is gone. A great way to “tow” a PC adventurer into a new campaign setting, by the way . . .
The answer to your second question is: any scrying intended to find any “lost” content item would fail utterly. You can’t find them that way. The “unless” here is: unless the item returns to the Realms (prime plane). I usually rule that the item is surrounded by an “echo” or aura of its violent planar travel that renders it invisible to all detection and location magics for a day or so, anyway. So to any attempts to immediately magically trace it, the item is simply “gone.”
Right, back to the magic items being the exception, and Kentinal’s good instincts: some (by no means all; here I ignore percentages and just make the possibilities part of a DM’s storytelling “wiggle room,” as in: what’ll make the best adventure for the PCs) magic items do “boomerang” back to the Realms (along with anyone towed by them, or even other items that were lashed to them or physically connected to [or even tangled in] them in some way). Not to right where they departed the Realms, but a random “somewhere else” in the Realms. Cheap, nigh-instant intercontinental travel, with a “safe” arrival, as per a teleport without error in 2nd Ed. That does NOT guarantee that arrival is in a location that is itself inherently safe. If you appear inside someone’s harem or guarded treasure vault, and experience a hostile reaction, claiming that magic not of your casting brought you there probably isn’t going to mollify the displeasure of the locals.
So items flung through such a rift that had acquired magic, even temporarily, in the Realms often return to the Realms, in a random location. Again, a great way of shifting adventure to a new venue, or just thrusting a PC into a difficult situation where they may See Things or otherwise learn information (the duke’s a traitor! the kindly old mother superior secretly summons devils to gratify her and carry out deeds for her! that oh-so-loyal noble is secretly meeting with foes of the city, like drow or illithids or rival city rulers!) that will plunge them into subsequent adventures.
There is no way of affecting where the new Realms arrival location will be - - unless the DM wants the will of a player character towed along to have some weight, and the player fervently and quickly uses it (“There’s no place like home! There’s no place like home!”)
Right, there’s my Realmslore reply. Have fun. :}
So saith Ed. Whew. This HAS, by the way, been used on we Knights a time or two. An approach that promotes maximum roleplaying possibilities, you’ll note.
love to all,
THO
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2007 : 19:46:39
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To our Hooded Lady and Ed of the Greenwood,
I'm pretty sure I'll run into a huge NDA with this question, or perhaps it's been answered before. In The Temptation of Elminster when Elminster speaks with Azuth, Azuth tells him that "there will be other Mystras, in time to come." (p.37) It seems a little strange that he would say it that way if he was only referring to Midnight's replacement at the end of the Time of Troubles. Since he referred to Mystras, plural, (and this was ages after Mystryl became Mystra) it makes me think that there will be another Mystra, or form of Mystra, after Midnight. Also, in Faiths and Pantheons, it says that Mystra plans to eventually make the Shadow Weave a part of her own portfolio, even if it means sacrificing some of her humanity and absorbing some of Shar's darkness. (p.50)
My question is: Could Azuth's statement and Mystra's plan be connected?
I see a possibility of Mystra absorbing a part of the Shadow Weave and undergoing a sort of death-rebirth (similar to the Mystryl-Mystra death-rebirth brought around by Karsus). If there's anything you can say, I would love to hear it, but I understand that this is probably covered by an NDA.
Thanks to you both!
Calrond |
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createvmind
Senior Scribe
490 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2007 : 20:27:40
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Thank you for response, I am always referring to the realms when I ask questions here, sorry.
Your reply will help in what I assume is going to happen in the near future but now I fear my Players have taken it a step further.
A player is seeking Gloves of Storing because he believes (and has not shared this with anyone in game who might be able to talk him out of it) that he can reach into a bag of holding and instantly store what he seeks in his glove, thus appearing empty handed. I redirect my dimensional question now in regards to where will HE wind up likely and in what condition if he places a dimensional item within another dimensional item. He's one of those sneaky chap characters who are far smarter than they are sensible, is he in for a world of hurt in the near future? Or is this possible in some insane way? |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 03:00:06
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Hi.
To Calrond: Whoooo. You tread on Dangerous Ground For Mere Mortals. Ed will respond shortly (er, within the month).
To createvmind, Ooooo. Your player's character may indeed be in for a world of hurtin' ... or not. Again, Ed will respond. 
And hello again, all. This time I present Ed’s swift response to Jamallo Kreen’s recent questions, that he suggested I ‘pare to the bone’ when presenting this answer, so accordingly: “The Age of Worms Adventure Path concludes in issue 135 of Dungeon Magazine, and Eric L. Boyd has written articles and web enhancements which allow it to be played in Faerun (including Chult). In the adaptation, Kyuss becomes a minor Chultan god worshipped by only a few cultists (at first, anyway!).
. . .
If Kyuss, a Chultan demigod, is killed by mortals, would they be eligible for elevation to godhood by Ao (using TSR's ToT logic, informed by your uber-wisdom), and if so, would they inherit his domains or his portfolio or both, or only his divine spark, being left to become the gods they want to be? (I can't see a lawful good character killing Kyuss and then relishing the prospect of having the domains of Evil and Corruption dropped in his lap, nor a good cleric or paladin wanting to become a divine patron of undeath!)
Second, since killing Kyuss is a Herculean task (pun intended), and would probably involve a team of adventurers, would they all become eligible for divinity, or just the one who delivered the final death blow, and if it's divided up, would they all become DR 1 demigods, or would the divine spark be spread so thin that they all become DR 0 quasi-deities? I know how I presently intend to run it, if my players ever succeed in doing it, but I greatly value your opinion on this, Ed, and want to make my campaign as "Realmsian" as possible, even though there is no way in the Fugue Plain that you'd ever run this adventure path for your players.
Cyric and Midnight took out greater deities and became greater gods themselves, which leads to my third query, one which may extend beyond the realm of NDA and into the cosmic sphere of "it's none of your business, mortal!" If a mortal obtains divinity by killing a god, does he or she become the same Divine Rank as the deceased, or might Ao (who can do anything s/he wants!) raise the mortal to an even higher rank or place him at a lower rank (for some inscrutable reason unfathomable to the gods themselves)?
Fourth (and finally!), the Hand of Vecna makes an appearance in this adventure path, along with a high-ranking cleric of Vecna. Eric's adaptation makes Myrkul stand in for Vecna, but there just ain't no Hand of Myrkul artifact, and the [i]Crown of Horns[i] might not do as a substitute. Master Ed of the Realms, is it possible that Vecna finally has a small toehold on Toril and can grant spells there, or is it more likely that some other deity is impersonating him and granting spells in his name to his poor, ignorant cleric?”
Right, duly trimmed (scribes can examine the entire post on page 25 of this thread), and here’s Ed’s response:
Any mortal can ascend to godhood if venerated sufficiently; why some achieve divinity and some do not is one of the Ultimate Mysteries, that only Ao can answer (many sages may second-guess, but none can presage or predict with certainty). In general, the destruction (permanent death) of a demigod raises a very strong possibility that a new demigod will rise to take the place of the vanished demigod.
The portfolios and domains of any replacement aren’t automatic; they have to do with the nature (mortal life, deeds, and interests) of the new demigod, and of the desires and actions of existing gods (who may or may not want to seize the vacant portfolios, and may or may not be prevented in doing so by the opposition of other gods, or their own too-different-from-the-desired-portfolio natures).
However, being the mortal slayer of any sort of god does NOT guarantee that said mortal will ascend to godhood, or replace the divinity they’ve slain. The Time of Troubles (Godswar, Fall of the Gods) was an exceptional time, with exceptional circumstances; so far as the wisest mortal sages can tell, in hindsight, Ao was trying to shake up the roster of existing gods and teach the survivors a lesson.
So a mortal killing a god now, or at any non-Time of Troubles time, might very well not Ascend to take the god’s place (they might well believe otherwise, of course, with what priests may have said about the examples of Cyric, Kelemvor, and Midnight).
The “divine spark” you speak of is Ao’s to compel or steer, BUT: any mortal (I stress: not already divine) godslayer who kills a god directly, hand-to-hand, rather than long-range (by spell or contrivance), will almost certainly be bathed in a “wash” of divine power blasting outwards, from the dying god.
They may well be slain or seared into twisted but still living ruin by such energies, but are usually also “touched” and changed by the divine fire rushing through them.
This is a DM’s chance to change a character’s race, alignment, and statistics of all sorts; I have usually used it to give characters stat boosts and “wild talents” (sorcerer-like “self-renewing” spellcasting abilities, for only a few specific spells or effects); in other words, nudging them a stride closer to being superheroes. They may well, of course, not know precisely what’s happened to them, until trial-and-error or “funny happenings” afterwards clue them in. (“Hey, I fell into the fire and DIDN’T GET BURNED!”)
So a character killing Kyuss would be eligible to replace him, yes, but highly unlikely. Yes, the entire party would be eligible, too, but if they didn’t strike a direct blow against Kyuss, their eligibility would been even more highly unlikely.
If no one “in wider Faerûn” knows of their deed (and any of them telling someone about it emphatically doesn’t count; a powerful wizard or priest with a reputation and believability of their own has to witness the slaying AND WANT TO SPREAD WORD OF IT), they probably wouldn’t start getting worshipped by anyone; ergo, no demigodhood or any other sort of godhood. They might well gain powers I alluded to, above (darkvision, self-healing, feather fall or dimension door ability, vitality: a human gaining the lifespan and vigor of an elf, or an elf doubling their natural lifespan), but would then have to use those powers to do things and impress people to try to get someone to start praying to them. In other words, it’s not likely at all that they’d achieve godhood by slaying Kyuss, but they might well gain personal benefits.
On the other hand, if the slayer is already a priest, and his/her holy mission of going up against Kyuss is known and approved of by the church or the deity (who would in turn order the church to celebrate it), said mortal godslayer might be deemed a “saint” or “holy champion” or something of the sort, of the deity they worship - - and it’s from the ranks of such Holy Ones that demigods often rise, especially if something befalls the main deity. Worship of a saint would keep that mortal alive and vital, beyond normal lifespan, and therefore a potential “god in waiting.”
No godslayer, mortal or divine, automatically achieves the same divine rank as their victim, although a middling god who single-handedly takes down a greater god USUALLY gains power. Again, veneraton of massed mortals plays a part, so the extent to which mortals know about the slaying (the public relations “selling job” best done by an existing and widespread priesthood) is a determining factor.
And lastly: yes, it’s possible that Vecna finally has a small toehold on Toril and can grant spells there - - but it is FAR more likely that a deity already in the Realms (Myrkul’s the most likely one, though it could be someone else trying to “horn in on” something that would otherwise fall to Myrkul because of his portfolio) is indeed impersonating him and granting spells in his name to his “poor, ignorant cleric.”
So saith Ed. Creator of most of the gods of the Realms and the “portfolio” system as a game mechanic (it existed in myths and legends long, long before there were any roleplaying games, of course).
love to all,
THO
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Iakhovas
Acolyte
Germany
13 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 07:20:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Ed replies:
I meant only this: that it has been observed that many female drow clerics who venerate Eilistraee have chosen to remain “single,” where the definition of “single” means “not having a steady partner of either gender.”
My “lesbianism” comment in that sentence is there to point out an obvious reason why many such females haven’t taken a male partner: they don’t want to because they are lesbian (rather than, say, “bi”), and don’t dwell in a society where there’s a social need to take a male partner for protection, or to conceal their natures, or for any other reason.
Most of these single Eilistraeean clerics (lesbian or not) haven’t taken a lone steady female partner because they have found themselves part of a “family” of many fellow female drow clerics of the Dark Dancer (again, as seen in that scene in SILVERFALL), and so they have a dozen to a score of partners, rather than just one (again, lesbian or not).
I am not saying that as they grow older they won’t take partners; I’m saying that at any one time, when one looks at the clergy of Eilistraee, one will see a large proportion of female drow clerics who are, at that time, “unpaired.”
And yes, obviously a lesbian tendency would indeed mean the priestess concerned would seek out the company/companionship/love of another female. No priestess of Eilistraee “has to” be celibate, and many priestesses of the Dark Dancer live with many fellow priestesses, and haven’t settled on “just one” (other priestess or other female or male lay worshipper) as their lifemate, bedmate, or anything else.
So saith Ed. Who wrote a lot of specific, detailed, and explicit lore on these ladies that several TSR editors found TOO explicit, and “sat on” (which of course means: no, he can’t just post it here, as it belongs to TSR/Wizards). However, all scribes should gather from this that there are heterosexual, lesbian, and bisexual female drow clerics of Eilistraee, and that regardless of personal nature in matters sexual, many female drow clerics of Eilistraee live and work with other female drow clerics of Eilistraee in long-term-stable groups. One can imagine that within some of these groupings there is a lot of sex taking place, and often - - but I’d like to remind all scribes that it’s wrong to “automatically” assume such things about any stable group, such as: a family, a band of adventurers, or even a real-world football team. Just because they work together and stay together for years, it doesn’t follow that, if I may stoop to a colloquialism for a moment, they’re “all bonking each other.”
love to all,
THO
I wouldn't call myself a prude, but all this rampant homosexuality/bisexuality "trend" in the Realms is disturbing me. That it exists is quite clear, and I have no problem with that. But I also find it rather distasteful to expound on it and keep on including or alluding to these themes on FR novels. I'm just tired of it, and those are simply the things or type of lore that I'm not at all interested about or care to know or include in any of my campaigns or care to read about.
Ergo, I do NOT AGREE that MOST Eilistraeean clerics are lesbians, and even if a few were, I do not see them as sexually prolific (I'm using a tame term here because the alternative is simply but aptly disgusting, IMO!). While I never understood why Eilistraee and her clerics must dance NAKED (the dancing part is fine, but why naked?! *rolls eyes*), it is something else to portray most Eilistraeean drow clerics as swingers. (PLEASE leave out "Woodstock" in the Realms.) I'm rather dismayed by this, truth be told. But that's just me, I guess.
Except, I know it's not just me. *All* of the members of our role-playing group feel the same way. We sometimes crack jokes about naked dancing clerics already, because of the absurdity of it all. (what's next? voluptuous beautiful women swinging great or bastard swords in chainmail bikinis sans the freakish muscles that would usually come with it?)
*sigh* Forgive me if I sound angry. I am not. Just a bit annoyed, more dismayed. You'll prolly urge me to make up our own FR sans rampant nudity and prolific sex, but it is hard to ignore when you, Ed Greenwood, says otherwise. Despite everything, I still (as my rp buddies) consider your views as FR canon. Now, perhaps you understand my dismay. |
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Iakhovas
Acolyte
Germany
13 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 07:45:15
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Hello Ed,
In Silverfall, there was a large group of drow in the guises of human forms (followers of Vhaeraun?) living among the citizens of Scornubel. Were they effectively driven out of the city, or are they still there? Did Mystra's Chosen come back for them later to deal with them?
Another question. I heard a rumor that Elmister's tower is destroyed. How did THAT happen? Last I read about Elminster in Elminster's Daughter, he and his tower were both hale and unscathed. If this is canon, please refer me to the FR accesory or novel that details this.
Thanks. |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2007)
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