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createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 25 Feb 2007 :  19:07:54  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Hello all,


Quick question, are there Dire Horses in Faerun, a PC of mine has out of the clear blue floated this Dire horse idea around with the others now they are asking if they wished to go Dire-horse hunting where would they find such a creature.

I said simply cause a template exist doesn't mean it applies in Faerun but I want to be sure of this, even though if they were to find such a creature I don't see anyone capable of riding or training it.
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Rygad
Acolyte

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2007 :  06:44:30  Show Profile  Visit Rygad's Homepage  Send Rygad an AOL message Send Rygad a Private Message
I have a question about Malvin Draga, current Keeper of the Bridges in Everlund. Specifically, who he is and how he was selected to be the Keeper of the Bridges. From reading Silver Marches it isn't clear to me if it is a position appointed by the other Council of Elders members or if the occupant is selected by some other means. Any other information that Ed would care to share on Malvin (or any of the Council) would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to tie Malvin into some of my ongoing plots, but I'm having a hard time working out how he may have come to power.

Thanks so much for your time and thank you very much for all the lore you've shared here at Candlekeep. That's of course in addition to your role of High Exalted Realms Creator, for which I can't thank you enough.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2007 :  15:01:41  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello, all. Ed has emerged for a breather between one top-secret project and another (he’s allowing himself three hours, but eating dinner and doing the dishes are part of that), and is pleased to have the opportunity to answer WalkerNinja re. this recent question: “Lady THO, This is less a Realms related question and more an Ed related question. It is the practice of some professional authors (Dan Brown for example) to write the final chapter or epilogue first when writing a novel, and then to trace the route up to that point. Similarly, my History professor recently revealed to us the method by which one should read a book (from his perspective, a perspective shared by many of my professors, no less): That one should begin by reading the introduction, then the conclusion, then re-read the introduction... ponder it, then read the remaining chapters in order. Does Ed share this writing formula? Would he tend to agree with the method proscribed by my professors?”
Ed replies:



I’ve written or co-written somewhere over 170 books in my life thus far, and have tried many, many different ways of doing it (not just in a probably futile search for “the right” way, but also just for plain old fun).
I once co-wrote a novel from (my) last chapter backwards towards the front (DEATH OF THE DRAGON); I was awaiting my angioplasty and wanted to do the chapter that mattered most (see the book title) first, in case I didn’t make it, so to speak.
Usually, I don’t have the luxury of using the Dan Brown method you cite, although I have done it. If I’m writing a game book, an outline or structure is provided for me, often with page-count breakdowns (“22 pages on Skydiving Sex, 3 on Getting Insurance, 2 for Dry Land Practicing”), and if I’m writing a novel, I must submit an outline of the story to the editor before starting to write. (Obviously, I could still write the ending, work backwards, and then pretend I’d gone in the other direction when dressing it up as an outline, but I’m simply too busy to play games of that sort. Most professional writers manage a book a year, “plus a little bit” (a start on the next one); I haven’t done less than five in any year since I started writing professionally, and I’ve always had day jobs throughout, as well (I did or co-wrote eleven books one year, but I darned near broke me).
It’s been said that there are as many ways to write a book as there are writers; whatever works for you is the right one, for you, for that book. We all try different things, or are forced into different things, but tend to settle on one or two “usual ways” and stick to them. The hardest projects are those that involve fighting with editors or others over the way to create something (“I need the first six chapters, completely finished in final draft, tomorrow, and I’ll start typesetting them while you write the rest” is a comment that can paralyze some writers; others merely shrug, nod, and keep writing).
Your history professor is outlining a reading method that works ONLY for non-fiction books; it will utterly ruin enjoyment of most fiction (and if you aren’t enjoying fiction, why are you reading it? If the answer is “I hate this book, but I have to read if for school,” then maybe that dissection method will work, though if it’s a “difficult” book for you, it won’t help much because it shatters the experience of reading along as the author develops his / her arguments and presents his / her case).
Your history professor’s method is very useful to someone seeking to decide swiftly if a (non-fiction) book is worth reading at all for them; in other words, it’s a superb elimination method, that can also be useful in ranking books that escape being eliminated (“The Jason volume seems more interesting and relevant, so I’ll read it before the Whitsun.”).
I would never, ever apply your professor’s method to a fiction work I was reading for pleasure; it would ruin every book for me. (I know some people who enjoy whodunits by reading the final chapter first so they know who’s guilty, and then going back to the beginning and reading to see how the writer tries to trick the reader, but far, far more people HATE knowing who did it before they get through the story in the usual manner.)
However, a professor reading a new release in his field will sometimes read the preface to see the approach, tone, and scope of the book, jump to the end to see what conclusion is reached, and then sit in judgement (again, on whether or not the book bears reading, and how urgently). I worked with plenty of veteran journalists who never read anything for pleasure, who would apply this same method to a shelf of novels to see if something was relevant for yielding a quote, or could be alluded to when “faking” a scholarly review (mentioning ULYSSES or LEAVES OF GRASS without actually bothering to read them). It’s not ethical, but it’s often done. When deadline is ten minutes away, ethics all too often go out the window. :}
So there’s my agreement and lack of it.
Look at it this way: if you’d written the book your professor is handling in this manner, would you want it examined in this way? If you can answer ‘yes,’ then the method is okay with you, but if you answer ‘no’ . . .



So saith Ed. Who is embarking, remember, on reading literally hundreds (perhaps thousands) of fantasy works published in 2006 so as to judge the World Fantasy Awards. My, he’s a glutton for punishment; I should drop by some day with a few whips, and we can explore that . . .
love to all,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2007 :  15:00:01  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
I pass this question on to Ed from a questor (let's call him Anonymous Realmsguy) who has no Net access, and reproduce it here so other scribes will know what's going on when Ed replies. . . .

A Cormyr question, if you will, O Creator:
If I am a middle-class shopkeeper in Suzail, who's never left the city in my life and has little contact with adventurers or caravan merchants, how much do I really "know" about the western end of the realm (west of High Horn) or the far northeastern (Hullack Forest)?
Thanks!

Edited by - The Hooded One on 28 Feb 2007 15:01:52
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2007 :  15:03:18  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, scribes. This time Ed answers Mkhaiwati, re this: “I have another question to add to the pile. I was thinking about the film Gosford Park, and was interested in the movie for the view of the servants. I was interested in the servants quarters and passageways that the servants used, and the sheer number of servants one family had. Is there a Realms equivalent (Cormyr or Waterdeep spring to mind) of the British method of servants?
The novels that I have read that touched on the goings on within a noble estate (Stormlight and Waterdeep, for example) servants outside of a seneschal, head cook, or maid rarely make an appearance, possibly because, like in Victorian or Edwardian society, people rarely take notice of them. They blend into the background.
In the Realms, I expect they would also include a multitude of guards and possibly a pet mage or priest on hand, too, just to show off their wealth and give neighbors something catch up to; a version of "keeping up with the Joneses"
Anything that you could add would be most enlightening.”
Ed replies:



Well, the main reason you rarely read about other servants in my books is that they get edited out because I overwrite. :}
Glancing at pages 22 through 24 of POWER OF FAERUN should give you a skeletal outline of the “bare minimum” servants for a duchal “and up” household. Let me scale things down.
Anyone in Waterdeep or Suzail with wealth enough (not just nobles) will have the following servants:
1. A housemaid (cook and cleaner, may also act as dresser, kitchen gardener, and errand runner).
2. If they gave more wealth, they will usually (this of course depends on whether or not the household contains children and / or invalid parents, etc.) add a cook.
3. If they get still more money, the third servant will be a “houseman” or “jack” (acts as gardener, doorguard, errand runner, coachman or conveyance hirer, handyman), unless there’s an urgent need for a tutor / governess (i.e. children in the household).
4. “The other one” (either the jack or the tutor/governess, whichever comes second), or a chambermaid (laundress and cleaner, also fetch-and-carry server of meals and drinkables).
5. Gardener or Hosteler (stable-keeper) or “back door jack” (does dirty work, yard work, butchering and smoking of meats, errands, doorguarding).
6. Scribe (accountant, letter-writer, ordering of stores, often fetching them and shopping around town for household necessities).
7. Chatelaine (female household manager) or seneschal (male household manager/ butler)
8. From here on, maids (personal dressers, and maids-of-chamber) and doorjacks (footmen) and stable lads get added as necessary.
Usually a butler-like impressive person will be foremost among them, either to add gravitas to the “overall show” for visitors, or in the case of aging female ‘masters’ or aging or ugly male masters, a sexy male or female servant who dresses and acts in a “hot” manner to imply that the master can personally attract such a person.
Larger households add dedicated-task servants such as coachmen, gardeners, armsmasters (who train and head personal bodyguards), scullery and pantry maids, limners (painters), seamstresses, and bedwarmers (live-in personal sexual companions). Paranoid nobles and wealthy merchants even employ body doubles, if they can find them.
Some young wealthy men (especially noblemen searching for a wife and not wanting to be trammeled with a female servant, or noblemen living on their parents’ coin, who have servants chosen or hired for them) will have just “a man” to be their cook, dresser, and butler (Jeeves style) all in one. In the Realms they often refer to such servants as “my jack.” If there is a LITTLE more money, a “come in” cook and / or cleaning lady will visit for a few morning hours to prepare meals, take away mending and laundry to be done, and dust or clean the rooms, supervised by the jack, NOT the master.
“Swinging” young men with coin enough often hire two or three doxies (good-looking prostitutes) to keep house for them, but this seldom lasts long, unless the young man either doesn’t mind being stolen from, or doesn’t mind them entertaining other men on the premises for pay (turning tricks behind his back). There are of course some men who turn themselves into brothel keepers in this manner, or even arrange for slavers to come and “take away” doxies they’ve become tired of, or come to hate but can’t see a good way to be rid of.
I can go on and on with this topic, but this should be enough for you to DM with. Just determine what a character can afford, what “show” they want to present to the wider world, and their real needs, and pick a spot on this scale for them.



So saith Ed. Great question, solid useful answer. Bring more on!
love to all,
THO
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe

USA
312 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2007 :  13:12:42  Show Profile  Visit AlorinDawn's Homepage  Click to see AlorinDawn's MSN Messenger address Send AlorinDawn a Private Message
Ed & THO,

I cannot find any information on the web about when Pentacon is, and registration information. Could you provide a link if there is one?

Thanks

Currently reading: Eyes of The Dragon by Stephen King

Long live Sniffy Wigglebottom
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2007 :  16:36:01  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
The Pentacon webpage. I'd suggest clicking the link below "Event registration is now open!"

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2007 :  21:39:44  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi, all. Ed couldn't resist replying to Jamallo Kreen right away:


Sure. Lots of places. Scornubel. Throughout the Tashalar. Dambrath (!), and certain cities in Calimshan and Tethyr. Luskan (bestiality, snuff, mutilation, forced human/monster matings), Mulmaster (ditto). Telflamm, some cities in Chessenta.

Of course, such things tend to cater to local tastes. Yes, caravan merchants are known as sources of such things - - and you can "pay to view" in a tavern back room, late at night, as well as buying. :}


So saith Ed. Torm has quite a collection, BTW. Surprise.
love to all,
THO




Ed, I bow to you in awe and amazement. Thank you!

Apropos of thanking you, I suppose I should earn that Senior Scribe chair and mention that I perused the compiled 2004 answers from you (thanks, kuje!). The selection which I made for further review for my own campaign runs into the hundreds of pages in Word.doc formatting!

Dear patrons of Candlekeep, let us realize that Ed's answers here in a given year amount to one or two complete books in Realmslore! Praise be to Ed!

Apropos of the 2004 posts, I found therein the answer to a recent query regarding mail and package delivery, but I can't recall if it was posted here or left to its own thread. Wherever it is, I have Ed's (definitive) 2004 answer to the question for whoever was seeking that lore.



I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2007 :  15:33:38  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all. This time Ed responds to Daviot regarding this recent query: “Dear Ed and the lovely hooded lady, I finally got around to reading my copy of The Best of the Realms, volume 2, having read volume 1 a few months ago. I severely enjoy the wry quotes (usually courtesy of Volo) at the beginning of the stories. On that note, on the story "Bloodbound"; beyond Fzoul and his temptation over the armlet, what exactly happened to Tace (Tantaraze) after her fateful meeting with Storm?”
Ed replies:



Ah, I’d love to tell you, but the answer to that is NDA. I CAN say that Bloodbound, two DRAGON editors ago, was originally supposed to be the launch story for a series of adventures of Tantaraze (short stories to be published in the pages of DRAGON, a project now abandoned), from which you can easily guess that her story isn’t over.
Hence the NDA. MY hopes is that you’ll certainly read more some day. Where and when, I’m not so sure.



So saith Ed. Ah, yes, the lovely Tace. I could tell a tale or two about this character, too, but NDA, as they say. Sigh.
love to all,
THO
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 03 Mar 2007 :  16:16:09  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Agreed, J K. I lust for the time Wizards starts compiling Ed's website Realmslore and printing them as books. I'd buy them (but then, I'd buy a collection of real-world-useless Ed-written fantasy recipes, too)!
My question for this post is: Suzail is a wealthy and bustling port and a capitol city, but how many of its citizens are poor/underclass/struggling labourers? (As opposed to stable-employment, well-fed but underpaid shopkeepers assistants, etc.?)
Thanks!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 03 Mar 2007 :  16:24:06  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, fellow scribes.
This time Ed responds to createvmind and to George Krashos, respectively, re. these queries: “Mr. Greenwood I was curious as to what are the various types of peacestrings used in the north, Heartlands and the South, and in terms of game mechanics, how long does it take to untie them to pull weapons? What are the equivalent for casters besides the thumb-tie, exactly how is the thumb or fingers tied to prevent somatic casting. And one more thing, do druids have to prepare spells at a certain time of day regularly if at all? Thanks”
and: “Yes, I must say this was something I was going to bring up: where are the peacestrings in "Swords of Eveningstar"?”
Ed replies:



To answer George first, quickly: Edited out. Really; those sorts of details got cut. A lot.
Please also remember: the Swords need not use peacestrings because of the conditions of their charter, no Purple Dragon, War Wizard, Obarskyr, King’s Lord, or herald need use them, no “badged” forester need use peacestrings when in the King’s Forest (includes on any road within the forest, though settled areas are excepted), and no nobles need use them when in walled parts of their own lands (i.e. their mansions) or when hunting; their servants need only use them if the noble orders them to. So there are a LOT of exceptions, and everyone in the realm is allowed a “belt knife” (short-bladed eating knife, though certain dagger designs, such as stilleto types, will earn you arrest right away, because Purple Dragons deem them to have only a killing-another-person use) exception. If you glance at SWORDS OF EVENINGSTAR closely, you’ll see that a great amount of the book actually involves places, situations, or characters that fall under the exceptions.
As to types of peacestrings: anything that passes through rings or holes in a scabbard or swordbelt and in a hilt, and is then knotted, that prevents a blade being drawn clear of its scabbard (it can be drawn a few inches out, to expose enough of a cutting edge to saw at a rope or cord, but never to expose the point or the “bearing edge” just above the point) is valid. Rope, cord, twine, wire, or even a vine or torn strip of cloth. In one memorable Torm moment, when he was in disguise, Jhessail’s thong-like undergarments. :}
A suspicious Purple Dragon will take hold of the weapon’s hilt and tug solidly; if the binding doesn’t part, and allow the weapon to be drawn, it’s okay.
Failing the presence of holes for a binding to secure through, a knot that binds the weapon from being swiftly and easily drawn is required (in 2nd edition terms, it takes a character a round to untie it, though they can also hunker down, or move steadily in one direction while undoing the knot). Usually such knots are ornate and “showy,” though adventurers are warned that most veteran Purple Dragons (e.g. almost all First Swords and up) are familiar with the majority of knots that look complicated but can be pulled open at a single tug, just at a glance. White or cream-hued silken cords as thick as a man’s thumb are often used in “dress” situations for peace-stringing.
It should be noted that Cormyr has peacestrings, but most “mercantile” crossroads or port cities such as Waterdeep, Crimmor, Westgate and Scornubel do not. It’s by no means widespread.
Handbinding for casters is even less used. Where used, however, it often consists of three things: one hand is thumb-bound (thumb to palm) AND waist-tethered (on a cord that allows that wrist to be moved about a foot out from the waist), and the other hand is bound flat to a “paddle” called a “strontor” (a triangular wooden board to which the hand is tied down flat, often with leather loops for the fingers and thumb to be slipped through, and just a tied binding for the wrist, to keep the hand from readily being slipped out of the strontor).
Years ago, it was briefly popular to construct enspelled strontors of shavings and sawdust, with a drop of wine or urine being used in the spell; this meant that a touch of wine or urine to the strontor later would make it disintegrate instantly, freeing the hand without any need for untying. However, that works only where there are no War Wizards or similar “lots of wizards on the street or at city gates, as part of the authorities,” because such “cheating strontors” radiate a dweomer and so can be magically detected.
As for druids: in some rare cases, certain spells should be prepared at a time that coincides with natural events (moonrise or in the moonlight, during a rainfall or at dusk or at sunrise, in full sun or during an eclipse, and so on), but in general, a “certain time of day regularly” doesn’t apply. Unless, of course, your DM wants it to. :}
However, various nature deities may want their devout followers to fulfill certain conditions before seeking spells. Silvanus may want a druid to water or otherwise tend a wild-growing plant first, for example. See FAITHS AND PANTHEONS for stipulations (e.g. Mielikki: morning and evening, plus a certain ritual).



So saith Ed. Who once had Mielikki require Florin to perform a ritual involving a horn she caused to appear on his forehead; he had to chase down and gore her, to shed her blood. It upset him greatly, which raised him in her estimation, confirming her choice of him for the more intimate task he later performed (trying to be delicate in my wording here, Sage).
love to all,
THO
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 03 Mar 2007 :  17:01:11  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Priceless..........


Thank you. Hope Torm wasn't traumatized by that experience.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 03 Mar 2007 :  18:30:26  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade

Agreed, J K. I lust for the time Wizards starts compiling Ed's website Realmslore and printing them as books. I'd buy them (but then, I'd buy a collection of real-world-useless Ed-written fantasy recipes, too)!

(snip)




D'accord!!! I'd like to see Realmslore in a paperback trilogy (maybe an "Encyclopedia Realmsica"?), rigorously indexed. I was able to spare Ed a question yesterday because The Sage had clued me in to DragonDex a couple of weeks ago, which had all the information I needed. Frequently I find myself asking Ed or the other writers information which is in published Realms books which I have, but which have no indices so that I can't just look up the answer in what might be the appropriate book; if it ain't in the Table of Contents, fuggedaboudit!

Ideally, an "Encyclopedia Realmsica" should have a master index to all published Realms books and products, TSR and WotC both. That index would go out of date quickly, but it would be much better than the current haze of ignorance which hovers over so many of us Realms scholars for want of a decent index or twelve.

Ahem! A question! -- about dice level caps on spells cast by Netherese survivors. Mystra, Mark I, imposed a cap on the number of damage dice for most spells (5Dx, 10Dx, or whatever), but when Netherese survivors cast the original versions of the spells, are they limited by those same caps? For example, when Larloch casts "General Mattick's Missile," does he cart out all of the D4s in Warlock's Crypt, or is he limited to the same maximum number of dice as anyone casting the contemporary spell, "Magic Missile," because Mystra has altered how all spells interact with the Weave?


Inquiring arcanists want to know!



I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Delzounblood
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
578 Posts

Posted - 03 Mar 2007 :  23:28:59  Show Profile Send Delzounblood a Private Message
ED & the ever Mysterious THO,

There is a thread regarding Good Guy's Vs Bad Guy's on the keep's board called: Do the good guy's win to much! and another thread (by me) on creating & playing an utter evil character.

My questions are these :

Why, apart from standard structure do nearly all novels have the good guy's winning??

Surley in the Realms there has been a time where one evil faction or another has been on the winning side? or else how did the the Red Wizards for example or the Zhents or any of the others start and grow there base of operations?

When will ED write a novel on Bad Guy's winning???

If Ed would like? I have part of a novel written he can read, where the main character is a Fallen Angel! A Paladin gone BAD! which I am working on. I would like to hear his (and yours THO) views on it so far!

Delz






I'm Back!

Edited by - Delzounblood on 03 Mar 2007 23:31:39
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EvilKnight
Learned Scribe

USA
162 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2007 :  13:05:14  Show Profile  Visit EvilKnight's Homepage Send EvilKnight a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

(snip)

D'accord!!! I'd like to see Realmslore in a paperback trilogy (maybe an "Encyclopedia Realmsica"?), rigorously indexed. I was able to spare Ed a question yesterday because The Sage had clued me in to DragonDex a couple of weeks ago, which had all the information I needed. Frequently I find myself asking Ed or the other writers information which is in published Realms books which I have, but which have no indices so that I can't just look up the answer in what might be the appropriate book; if it ain't in the Table of Contents, fuggedaboudit!

Ideally, an "Encyclopedia Realmsica" should have a master index to all published Realms books and products, TSR and WotC both. That index would go out of date quickly, but it would be much better than the current haze of ignorance which hovers over so many of us Realms scholars for want of a decent index or twelve.




Hail Jamallo,

FYI, there is the beginnings of an attempt to do that here at CK. See
Forgotten Realms Index. It has a long way to go and my never be complete. It is still faster and much more informative to ask the scribes here at CK.

EvilKnight

Danali Index
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe

USA
312 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2007 :  13:46:16  Show Profile  Visit AlorinDawn's Homepage  Click to see AlorinDawn's MSN Messenger address Send AlorinDawn a Private Message
I recently commissioned artist Andrew Hou who has been quite prolific in WotC publications to do rather nice piece of my character and his family.

Meet Alorin, Sabrine, and their son Delen....and my rl cat Speedy who i had worked in hehe.

http://www.imagehosting.com/view.php/10296_comissionfinaldesktop.jpg.html

Currently reading: Eyes of The Dragon by Stephen King

Long live Sniffy Wigglebottom

Edited by - AlorinDawn on 04 Mar 2007 14:03:13
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe

USA
509 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2007 :  17:27:05  Show Profile  Visit RodOdom's Homepage Send RodOdom a Private Message
Dear Ed and Lady THO,

We know that there are human merchants who venture into the bazaars of the Underdark. Are there merchants who dare to trade with goblins and other savage communities on the surface world?

And a seperate question: has there ever been instances where ordinary humans have tried to offer mundane services to wealthy dragons? For example, house-keeping, scale-cleaning, vermin-control.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2007 :  20:35:06  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood

When will ED write a novel on Bad Guy's winning???








This is just my opinion but...I think it depends on what is meant by bad guys "winning". If it means "the protagonist loses utterly, and the bad guys take all", I doubt we will see such a book. Mainly, because it kind of goes against what makes a good story--is a story even worth telling if we are just going to read about people who are already on top and in control (the antagonists) easily defeat those who are trying to overcome the obstacles the antagonists have put in their way?

On the other hand, if by "winning" you mean that the bad guys take some victories and aren't utterly defeated...I'd say that's already occured in certain stories Ed has written. Ed doesn't strike me as the kind of author who always leaves the bad guys utterly crushed for good.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)

Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 04 Mar 2007 20:36:36
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1144 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2007 :  21:57:19  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message
There's Crucible by Troy Denning. That was hugely entertaining and the bad guys utterly dominate the ending.

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2007 :  01:32:06  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, all. A few very swift replies from Ed for divers scribes:

First, in answer to Jamallo Kreen’s query: “Ahem! A question! -- about dice level caps on spells cast by Netherese survivors. Mystra, Mark I, imposed a cap on the number of damage dice for most spells (5Dx, 10Dx, or whatever), but when Netherese survivors cast the original versions of the spells, are they limited by those same caps? For example, when Larloch casts "General Mattick's Missile," does he cart out all of the D4s in Warlock's Crypt, or is he limited to the same maximum number of dice as anyone casting the contemporary spell, "Magic Missile," because Mystra has altered how all spells interact with the Weave?
Inquiring arcanists want to know!”
Ed replies:



Yes, Mystra has altered how all spells interact with the Weave, so unless the caster of an original Netherese spell can convince her or Azuth to ‘bend’ the Weave for just their casting (good luck on that!) they are capped, too.



So saith Ed. Who adds a response to Delzounblood’s queries: “Why, apart from standard structure do nearly all novels have the good guy's winning??
Surley in the Realms there has been a time where one evil faction or another has been on the winning side? or else how did the the Red Wizards for example or the Zhents or any of the others start and grow there base of operations?
When will ED write a novel on Bad Guy's winning???
If Ed would like? I have part of a novel written he can read, where the main character is a Fallen Angel! A Paladin gone BAD! which I am working on. I would like to hear his (and yours THO) views on it so far!”
Ed replies:

“Nearly all novels” have that structure because most human readers want to know that good triumphs, and publishers know that (unless there’s a clear promise of a later book in which good might win, as in a labelled trilogy or saga, e.g. “Book One of”) sales will suffer if good doesn’t win. (Or, in a romance, if the hero and heroine don’t wind up with each other.)
TSR/WotC Realms novels have that structure because strict sets of Code of Ethics have applied, down the years, mandating that. In short, we were forced to write “good guys win” novels (hence the Keystone Kops-incompetent Zhents of early books). That has slowly been relaxed (as for how CRUCIBLE got that way, it must have had full editorial approval).
You’re quite right that evil must triumph to set up those established powerful evil organizations - - and if you check Realmslore, you’ll see many, many historical instances of the bad guys winning (fall of Myth Drannor, etc.).
I will write such a Realms novel when I receive editorial approval to do so (if you don’t consider HAND OF FIRE to be that already). Check out my next Tor Books novel, DARK WARRIOR RISING, due out in September 07, for a ‘“sort of” good guys winning, but a lot of bad guys winning, too’ novel.


So saith Ed, who to createvmind says:

Yes, Torm was traumatized by Florin goring Mielikki. Traumatized that he wasn’t invited to do the goring himself, somewhat lower down, with another part of his anatomy. Ahem.


So saith Ed again. And, last but not least, Ed saith thus to Alorin Dawn:

Very nice pic. Money well spent, I’d say. The Pentacon website you were directed to in this thread is of course last year’s. I will check with my friend, Lisa Adams, the heart behind the con, for news of an updated web presence for the 07 version of the con, and report back to you here when I have news.


So saith Ed. Who’s done for now, as am I.
love to all,
THO
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
592 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2007 :  01:49:32  Show Profile  Click to see Foxhelm's MSN Messenger address  Send Foxhelm a Yahoo! Message Send Foxhelm a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood

ED & the ever Mysterious THO,

There is a thread regarding Good Guy's Vs Bad Guy's on the keep's board called: Do the good guy's win to much! and another thread (by me) on creating & playing an utter evil character.

My questions are these :

Why, apart from standard structure do nearly all novels have the good guy's winning??

Surley in the Realms there has been a time where one evil faction or another has been on the winning side? or else how did the the Red Wizards for example or the Zhents or any of the others start and grow there base of operations?

When will ED write a novel on Bad Guy's winning???

If Ed would like? I have part of a novel written he can read, where the main character is a Fallen Angel! A Paladin gone BAD! which I am working on. I would like to hear his (and yours THO) views on it so far!

Delz








I don't know if it is still in print, but Villains by Necessity by Eve Forward is an interesting case of the villains having to save the world from destruction from being too good.

It has an interesting take on villains as the good guys involve themselves with genoside of evil creatures and using magic to remove the ability to do evil from people. It also so some of the noble side of villains as they try to work together for their common goal, and discover like Elminster said good and evil are not always as black and white.

I would recommend it for any campaign where the bad guys are the PC. So check out your library or used books store.

Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
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Delzounblood
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
578 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2007 :  10:26:13  Show Profile Send Delzounblood a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

So saith Ed. Who adds a response to Delzounblood’s queries: “Why, apart from standard structure do nearly all novels have the good guy's winning??
Surley in the Realms there has been a time where one evil faction or another has been on the winning side? or else how did the the Red Wizards for example or the Zhents or any of the others start and grow there base of operations?
When will ED write a novel on Bad Guy's winning???
If Ed would like? I have part of a novel written he can read, where the main character is a Fallen Angel! A Paladin gone BAD! which I am working on. I would like to hear his (and yours THO) views on it so far!”
Ed replies:

“Nearly all novels” have that structure because most human readers want to know that good triumphs, and publishers know that (unless there’s a clear promise of a later book in which good might win, as in a labelled trilogy or saga, e.g. “Book One of”) sales will suffer if good doesn’t win. (Or, in a romance, if the hero and heroine don’t wind up with each other.) TSR/WotC Realms novels have that structure because strict sets of Code of Ethics have applied, down the years, mandating that. In short, we were forced to write “good guys win” novels(hence the Keystone Kops-incompetent Zhents of early books). That has slowly been relaxed (as for how CRUCIBLE got that way, it must have had full editorial approval).
You’re quite right that evil must triumph to set up those established powerful evil organizations - - and if you check Realmslore, you’ll see many, many historical instances of the bad guys winning (fall of Myth Drannor, etc.).
I will write such a Realms novel when I receive editorial approval to do so (if you don’t consider HAND OF FIRE to be that already). Check out my next Tor Books novel, DARK WARRIOR RISING, due out in September 07, for a ‘“sort of” good guys winning, but a lot of bad guys winning, too’ novel.

So saith Ed. Who’s done for now, as am I.
love to all,
THO




Thanks THO for passing on such a quick response, I know the creator is a busy mage er sorry man!
And Thanks Ed for your answer.

But surely regarding the:

quote:
TSR/WotC Realms novels have that structure because strict sets of Code of Ethics have applied, down the years, mandating that. In short, we were forced to write “good guys win” novels

There is need for a balance, I know we, the readers, may have a biased view point on Realmsian novels, wanting novels to reflect "true" to our perceptions of realmsian life. And we, to be honest don't look at this from a corprate view point, But we are the buyers of these novels and from my discussions on this matter here on the keep, I belive there is a market for more "Evil Wins Novels".

quote:

I will write such a Realms novel when I receive editorial approval to do so

I hope this can carrys through to a few more books being published! I know Erik Scott de Bie has some very good ideas on Evil Character types (he assisted me in creating my Fallen Angel char along with another scribe)

quote:

Check out my next Tor Books novel, DARK WARRIOR RISING, due out in September 07, for a ‘“sort of” good guys winning, but a lot of bad guys winning, too’ novel.



Consider it as good as bought!

Thanks again
Delz


I'm Back!

Edited by - Delzounblood on 05 Mar 2007 12:16:33
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe

USA
561 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2007 :  14:26:33  Show Profile Send WalkerNinja a Private Message
Ed,

A little more exploration of peacestrings if you would. During 2E, this wasn't a big problem, but now that monks are back... How does a monk surrender his "arms" or bind them peaceably in Cormyr and still be able to function normally?

Its cliche', and my players never tire of it when the Gate Guard or tavern keeper asks the party to surrender their weapons, inevitably the monk starts twisting at his own wrist and saying "sorry."

*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2007 :  14:36:39  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
A little more exploration of peacestrings if you would. During 2E, this wasn't a big problem, but now that monks are back... How does a monk surrender his "arms" or bind them peaceably in Cormyr and still be able to function normally?
The short answer: he doesn't.

The long answer is that no one (except traitors, renegade wizards, and criminals) is required to walk through Cormyr completely deprived of the ability to defend themselves. A belt-knife--for eating, though not (as Ed described) stiletto-type daggers, nor extra-long 'Crocodile Dundee'-style blades--and a staff (which is presumed to be for travel) is permitted to anyone who carries one. Skilled unarmed fighters, it is assumed, can pull their punches, and would not resort to lethal attacks unless necessary...
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Faraer
Great Reader

3291 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2007 :  18:38:43  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message
Ed, to help us do rules write-ups of the six new common spells you provided, could you suggest levels for each of them? Here's a thread.
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