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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Dec 2006 : 12:35:37
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I'm working on the development of a NWN2 persistent world, and I have a question for those devoted to tabletop PnP, which I'll pose at the end of this little ramble. Let me explain what motivates the question first.
One of the most challenging aspects of designing and maintaining a NWN(2) persistent world is to find the sweet spot in a wide range of gaming tastes. This is true even for a roleplay-intensive world, where players are eager to get into character and participate in great storytelling. And often that range stems in part from difference in gaming backgrounds.
Many players have very strong backgrounds in tabletop PnP. Others have primarily MMORPG experience. And there are some whose prior experience is mainly with single player CRPGs.
What players are seek often differs even for those who are all attracted to a strongly roleplay-oriented gaming experience. Some are looking for scheduled weekly sessions with 3-6 players and a DM. Some just like to get online whenever is convenient for them, and hope that they bump into other players and hope a DM will be online to whip something up on the fly for the next couple hours. Many whose gaming experience has been mostly CRPGs are conditioned to seeking clever ways to 'beat the game' (so-called 'powergaming') even when it is not particularly logical behavior for the character or the setting, though they can and do roleplay with aplomb when the opportunity presents itself.
There are some aspects of persistent world gaming that set it apart from tabletop play. Playing in a gameworld filled with many other players and a battery of DMs running different campaigns makes for a more egalitarian gameworld. For example, each party of players cannot be the ultimate savior of the gameworld when it is in crisis (and obviously not when they are in factions vying against one another). And there are a number of other important issues of balance within the gameworld to consider as well.
The balance of time spent interacting in-character with other characters, on the one hand, and simply having fun fighting monsters, on the other, isn't always easy to strike... Funnily enough, I have seen it reported repeatedly that an individual's tabletop PnP experience there was actually less in-character roleplaying and more combat than what they encountered in roleplay-intensive NWN persistent worlds. There needs to be a balance of fighting and roleplaying obviously, but this was kind of an ironic thing to see, I thought.
Anyway, the vast majority of folks here have a strong history of tabletop PnP experience. I consider the folks here the cream of the crop in their devotion to the various nuances and subtleties of this wonderful game of D&D, and in particular to bringing the Forgotten Realms to life faithfully. I don't think one could find a more experienced and sophisticated group when it comes to roleplaying and the inticacies of D&D in general than the Candlekeep community. I would very much like to know what you consider an optimal balance between the following components of gameplay:
1) roleplaying primarily for its own sake, i.e., purely for the fun of social interaction with other characters, and for plot and story develpment, character development, etc.
2) gaining XP/levels
3) combat for its own sake (i.e., because it's fun!)
4) wealth and loot
5) level/availability of magic
6) inhouse rules
7) ? (anything else)
If you are describing your experience for tabletop PnP only, that's great, and please note that. This helps me integrate that perspective into the larger puzzle I have to solve. And if you have any comments or thoughts about how to balance these elements of gameplay for a persistent world specifically that would of course be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance for any responses, I know it's a rather complicated thing to consider and comment on!
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 01:22:52
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| I fear I may have asked too complicated question. Maybe I should have asked instead what you feel are the most important elements of gameplay to be balanced! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 01:53:21
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That is a rather difficult question to answer. To be honest, I could throw my heart into an answer a lot more easily if you were developing a module that could be played single player instead of a persistant world, because I don't play PWs (sorry, that's just how it is ).
Honestly, I'm not even sure HOW to answer this question. My advice to you is, however you design your game, make sure you make it clear exactly what the gameplay is like. If your game is going to be combat-heavy, let people know (a side note: personally I prefer combat that's challenging but not overly difficult and frustrating). If you make the game light on loot, say that.
The thing is, I wouldn't worry about trying to please everyone--it's impossible, and it's likely that someone out there will want to try your game no matter what you do. Just be forthright about what's in your module so people don't wind up disappointed and complain about it later (for example, "Why didn't you tell me this module was mostly about combat with few chances to roleplay? I was hoping to roleplay!"). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 02 Jan 2007 02:46:15 |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 02:38:52
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I'm glad that Rinonalyrna answered before I saw your thread, because my answer is going to sound like an echo of hers. I agree with everything she wrote, and would just like to add a couple points.
Personally, I think it's impossible to find an "optimal balance" of the different play elements you mention that would please even a minority of gamers.
Figuring out what elements would make an individual game experience "better" or "worse" is difficult (at best) when you are long-time friends with the gamers who are going through your module. When you don't know them - it's a herculean task to say the least.
In fact, trying to find such an "optimal balance point" will probably result in a product that is a mis-match of compromises. To atract combat fans you'll need to frame the encounters of the module very differently than you would to attract puzzle fans or role-playing fans. Try to please them all, amd you'll end up pleasing no one.
That's a key lesson that I've learned from experience. For the past 18 year, I'be been been part of the writing/judging team for a group that's run one of the larger tournaments at GenCon. During that time, I've learned that you can't please most gamers even some of the time.
The desires of gamers cover too broad a spectrum and are often in direct contradiction to each other. There simply is no one optimal point.
What you can do is to write a module (or series of modules) that are consistent with each other. Be honest about your content and style and don't try to please everyone. Once some people get to know (and like) your product, they'll bring others with simular tastes and you'll develop a following over time.
I know this isn't the answer you're probably looking for, but I hope it helps anyway. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 02:51:25
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These are very helpful answers. We actually have crystalized a core set of ideas and principles, and we know we cannot please everyone. But feedback here on individual taste I think might provide an interesting sample.
You know, the more I think about it, I might be looking for further confirmation of this idea that folks who are heavily into PnP actually spend less time roleplaying their characters with each other, and more time in combat, than a lot of folks who play in roleplay-intensive persistent worlds might think.
Which do you think more forms the heart of the game for you--combat or roleplaying your character? |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 02:55:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
These are very helpful answers. We actually have crystalized a core set of ideas and principles, and we know we cannot please everyone. But feedback here on individual taste I think might provide an interesting sample.
You know, the more I think about it, I might be looking for further confirmation of this idea that folks who are heavily into PnP actually spend less time roleplaying their characters with each other, and more time in combat, than a lot of folks who play in roleplay-intensive persistent worlds might think.
Which do you think more forms the heart of the game for you--combat or roleplaying your character?
Just for the record, I'm not heavily into PnP, just heavily into the Realms setting. :)
Personally, in NWN modules (I do play those--single player) the heart of the game for me definitely comes from getting into character. That's not to say combat is unimportant, though, as I said, I enjoy it unless it's frustratingly difficult. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 02:55:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Which do you think more forms the heart of the game for you--combat or roleplaying your character?
RP for me both as a player and a DM, with combat when it makes sense but not a campaign that has combat every session that takes a hour or two to complete. Or days to complete if you are playing online. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 13:55:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
You know, the more I think about it, I might be looking for further confirmation of this idea that folks who are heavily into PnP actually spend less time roleplaying their characters with each other, and more time in combat, than a lot of folks who play in roleplay-intensive persistent worlds might think.
Which do you think more forms the heart of the game for you--combat or roleplaying your character?
I think it's too complicated a question to be boiled down to a simple yes/no or combat/role-play equasion. What people enjoy and how they develop their characters varies from game session to game session, even with the same players in the same campaign.
I'm the perpetual DM of our group, so I seldom have the chance to play a single character. However, from what I see from my current group of players - they enjoy both combat and non-combat. They also find ways to develop their characters through both.
There are game sessions where we do no combat. Everything is roleplay. This cam run the gambit from a "normal" day resting between adventurers to several session of role-play intensive plots that evolve while attending a ball thrown by their Sembian patrons.
On the other hand, there are sessions where the players just want to beat the stuffing out of the monsters. Even those sessions help to further develop the PC's and their relationships with NPC's and each other. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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balancing elements of gameplay
