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 A Yule Mystical Anthropormorphic Personification?
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Delzounblood
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  10:23:07  Show Profile Send Delzounblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Here's one for you.

I have never really looked into Yule in the Realms but,

Here in the Real World we have Ol' Nick aka Santa Claus.
In Diskworld they have The HogFather.

Who do we have in The Realms ? Elminster

Is there a mystical anthropormorphic personification (sorry just watched Hogfather on sky) in other words who is Forgotten Realms's Santa?

Just wondering....

Delz



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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  11:11:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not that I know of... But you could use Nicholas the Gift-Giver.

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Delzounblood
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  11:15:47  Show Profile Send Delzounblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Not that I know of... But you could use Nicholas the Gift-Giver.



I havn't been on the WotC site for a while and hadn't seen that.

Maybe a mystical anthropormorphic personification for the Yuletide season should be written in FR Folflore!

Delz

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ShadowJack
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  12:51:49  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Delz,

In the tome from Bastion Press, FAERIES, Bryon Wischstadt has statted St. Nick. I can not remember what name they use, maybe Father Christmas... So, give him a Realmsian name and as the realm of Faerie can access Abeir Toril, there you go...

ShadowJack
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WalkerNinja
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  13:21:38  Show Profile Send WalkerNinja a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In ancient European mythology (the origin of Yule or Yuletide), this holiday was a Solstice celebration with mystical connotations concerning the dead. Faerun has a winter holiday like that doesn't it? Anyway... here's a piece on Yule from wikipedia.

quote:
The confraternities of artisans of the 9th century, which developed into the medieval guilds, were denounced by Catholic clergy for their "conjurations" when they swore to support one another in coming adversity and in business ventures. The occasions were annual banquets on December 26,

"feast day of the pagan god Jul, when it was possible to couple with the spirits of the dead and with demons that returned to the surface of the earth... Many clerics denounced these conjurations as being not only a threat to public order but also, more serious in their eyes, satanic and immoral. Hincmar, in 858, sought in vain to Christianize them" (Rouche 1987, p. 432).


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Delzounblood
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  13:28:18  Show Profile Send Delzounblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja

In ancient European mythology (the origin of Yule or Yuletide), this holiday was a Solstice celebration with mystical connotations concerning the dead. Faerun has a winter holiday like that doesn't it? Anyway... here's a piece on Yule from wikipedia.

quote:
The confraternities of artisans of the 9th century, which developed into the medieval guilds, were denounced by Catholic clergy for their "conjurations" when they swore to support one another in coming adversity and in business ventures. The occasions were annual banquets on December 26,

"feast day of the pagan god Jul, when it was possible to couple with the spirits of the dead and with demons that returned to the surface of the earth... Many clerics denounced these conjurations as being not only a threat to public order but also, more serious in their eyes, satanic and immoral. Hincmar, in 858, sought in vain to Christianize them" (Rouche 1987, p. 432).






Aye and lets not forget our sponsers.....

The modern day characterisation of Santa Claus is actually a Coke image!!

They stylised St Nick aka Santa aka Father Christmas in red and white and gave him the "traditional" image we see today, after taking the original santa myth from folk lore and religion!

Prehaps we could think up a new portfloio for a suitable god, so they can become a santa like figure in the realms?

Delz



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The Sage
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  13:40:49  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Last Christmas, a side-quest for my weekly FR campaign featured the "new" Hogfather:- http://www.au.lspace.org/art/kidby/xmsdth.jpg

'Twas Myrkul in disguise!

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Edited by - The Sage on 19 Dec 2006 13:41:30
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Zimme
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Denmark
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  13:49:32  Show Profile  Click to see Zimme's MSN Messenger address Send Zimme a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hmm in dragonlance they got the old man in the white robes.. so the realms should have something too. Donno....the old netherese in the frayed robe ...something

Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!

Rannek.


Edited by - Zimme on 19 Dec 2006 13:50:29
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The Sage
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  14:24:04  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That "old man" interpretation in DL doesn't exactly equate with the notion of Father Christmas however.

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Delzounblood
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  14:45:02  Show Profile Send Delzounblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He sounds a bit like FizBan who was Paladine if I'm not mistaken


Delz

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The Sage
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  15:02:11  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fizban was Paladine, yes.

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  17:05:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood

Aye and lets not forget our sponsers.....

The modern day characterisation of Santa Claus is actually a Coke image!!


Buzzzt! Incorrect! That is a modern myth. See this site: http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp

Incidentally, that's one of my fave websites. I can spend hours just clicking links on there...

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Delzounblood
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  17:13:55  Show Profile Send Delzounblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood

Aye and lets not forget our sponsers.....

The modern day characterisation of Santa Claus is actually a Coke image!!


Buzzzt! Incorrect! That is a modern myth. See this site: http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp

Incidentally, that's one of my fave websites. I can spend hours just clicking links on there...



You learn something everyday, I always belived in this, I was told by a college prof..

Delz

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Kuje
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  17:15:53  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's funny someone said Elminster, since Ed said this in 2004:

"December 29, 2004: BrokenRulz, Ed hereafter makes answer to your question: “How does Elminster celebrate the Yuletide/Soltice?”

The axial tilt, size, and rotational period of Toril are close to our Earth’s but not identical. Solstices do occur, and at such times “the Weave shines forth most brightly” in the Realms.

Which is the bardic way of saying that at such times there’s some restlessness in Mystra, due to her origins (Selune), and the Weave is therefore more active than at most other times (with surges of raw magical energy washing back and forth, sometimes ‘powering up’ cast spells to greater damage, duration, or area of effect than would normally be possible, and more often spitting off unintended wild magic side effects). Beyond such happenings, this time of year has little greater significance to Mystra and her Chosen. However, Elminster has visited our Earth often, and is familiar with Yule celebrations and the more modern commercial Christmas. (So, to a much more limited extent, are Laeral and The Simbul and Storm.)

El has little use for presents and much of the foolishness associated with the etiquette of modern organized faiths of any sort, but it pleases his nature to do at Yuletide what he’s always done as a Chosen: help folk and support their belief in magic or strength of Sense of Wonder.

In other words, he gives gifts of food, unlooked-for aid, and spell-cast warmth and shelter to those in need in the bitter winter cold, AND enjoys playing a mysterious Father Christmas figure, especially if he can do small acts of magic observed by one or two beings at a time rather than large audiences, so he can foster a belief in magic in those observers (awakening awe in adults - - and teenagers who’ve just scornfully stopped believing in Santa Claus - - of our world, in particular).

He enjoys showing up wherever I am, late on the night of Christmas Eve/wee hours of Christmas morning, and letting me see his wink and wave as he works some small magic to awe a youngster. And downs something handy from my wine cellar or liquour cabinet, too.

So saith Ed.

A night or two late for this Christmas, but the Master of the Realms keeps up with his Candlekeep answers as best he can at this frenetic (both for writing and family celebrations) time of year.

love to all,
THO"

I, personally, find it mildly amusing that no one ever discusses the other festivals in FR or even the others that are celebrated on Earth. What do you think halloween is? It's another pagan festival that's been commercialized, etc.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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The Sage
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  23:06:34  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

What do you think halloween is? It's another pagan festival that's been commercialized, etc.
Oh, how very true!

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Kentinal
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  23:20:03  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje



I, personally, find it mildly amusing that no one ever discusses the other festivals in FR or even the others that are celebrated on Earth. What do you think halloween is? It's another pagan festival that's been commercialized, etc.



Err, All Hollows Eve is clearly a Christian holiday, though it was built from a "pagan" tradition. The Chuch set a date for it as oposed to repesting the cycle of nature. I am not amused at all that anyone believes halloween is a pagan holiday.

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"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
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Reefy
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  23:55:10  Show Profile  Visit Reefy's Homepage  Click to see Reefy's MSN Messenger address Send Reefy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje



I, personally, find it mildly amusing that no one ever discusses the other festivals in FR or even the others that are celebrated on Earth. What do you think halloween is? It's another pagan festival that's been commercialized, etc.



Err, All Hollows Eve is clearly a Christian holiday, though it was built from a "pagan" tradition. The Chuch set a date for it as oposed to repesting the cycle of nature. I am not amused at all that anyone believes halloween is a pagan holiday.



And I'm just not amused by Halloween.

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The Sage
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Posted - 19 Dec 2006 :  23:56:30  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, I'm ending this before it gets out of hand.

Let's try and keep our personal views regarding religion out of this discussion please.

If further discussion on the religious aspects of this scroll are required, I would suggest using either PMs or emails.



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Edited by - The Sage on 20 Dec 2006 00:00:47
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Kuje
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Posted - 20 Dec 2006 :  00:22:48  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje



I, personally, find it mildly amusing that no one ever discusses the other festivals in FR or even the others that are celebrated on Earth. What do you think halloween is? It's another pagan festival that's been commercialized, etc.



Err, All Hollows Eve is clearly a Christian holiday, though it was built from a "pagan" tradition. The Chuch set a date for it as oposed to repesting the cycle of nature. I am not amused at all that anyone believes halloween is a pagan holiday.



It's clearly not a Christian holiday, but let's leave it at that especially since the Celts had it first as Samhain.

And to keep this on topic, I'd love to have more details on the other festivals in FR. Sure, I can use pagan references from Earth for them, but it's not the same.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Edited by - Kuje on 20 Dec 2006 00:28:06
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The Sage
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Posted - 20 Dec 2006 :  00:59:22  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje



I, personally, find it mildly amusing that no one ever discusses the other festivals in FR or even the others that are celebrated on Earth. What do you think halloween is? It's another pagan festival that's been commercialized, etc.



Err, All Hollows Eve is clearly a Christian holiday, though it was built from a "pagan" tradition. The Chuch set a date for it as oposed to repesting the cycle of nature. I am not amused at all that anyone believes halloween is a pagan holiday.



It's clearly not a Christian holiday, but let's leave it at that especially since the Celts had it first as Samhain.
Indeed. Aspects of the Catholic "All Souls' Day" and Halloween are usually considered as modern derivatives of the ancient Celtic tradition.

quote:
And to keep this on topic, I'd love to have more details on the other festivals in FR. Sure, I can use pagan references from Earth for them, but it's not the same.
Agreed.

And we've seen a few festivals mentioned in the Realmslore, though with little actual information behind them.

I may just put together a list for Ed!

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Dargoth
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Posted - 20 Dec 2006 :  01:29:01  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood


Who do we have in The Realms ? Elminster




See Eds Elminster novels, Elminster being Sanata is practically true the only difference is that Santa climbs down the chimney of your house and puts presents by your christmas tree. Elminster breaks into your crypt or tomb after your dead and sticks Wands, Staffs scrolls and Spellbooks in your coffin!

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Talanfir Swiftfeet
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Finland
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Posted - 20 Dec 2006 :  07:49:38  Show Profile  Visit Talanfir Swiftfeet's Homepage Send Talanfir Swiftfeet a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A year ago I tried to make a deity out of Santa. You can watch it here http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5770

I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.

If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling?
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Delzounblood
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Posted - 20 Dec 2006 :  14:41:47  Show Profile Send Delzounblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK so who is the Realms Santa??????

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Kentinal
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Posted - 20 Dec 2006 :  15:19:04  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20021225x might be of some use, however not realm specific.


"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
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Delzounblood
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 20 Dec 2006 :  15:58:53  Show Profile Send Delzounblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood
[br
Prehaps we could think up a new portfloio for a suitable god, so they can become a santa like figure in the realms?

Delz





I hate to quote myself BUT... there have done,

How about a ONE NIGHT PER YEAR folio for AO as the ALL GIVER?

At least it will give him something to do apart from kicking Bane up the arse every now and then!

Delz

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
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Posted - 20 Dec 2006 :  23:36:30  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still believe in Santa Claus. Maybe that's why I like Elminster so much?


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