Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 The new deities
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 9

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2012 :  01:19:21  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

I'd have to vote for Leira, as I'm not overly fond of Cyric- too nuts- and I never cared much about most of the others.
I think Cyric was, for a lot of long-time Realms folk, a novelty deity that some of us were keen on because he was new and interesting -- I know, because I was definitely one of this lot of folk. But then that novelty soon wore off, and we then tended to see him as a poor substitute for the established deities he later replaced.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

Razz
Senior Scribe

USA
712 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2012 :  05:41:55  Show Profile  Visit Razz's Homepage  Send Razz an AOL message Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Am I the only one that enjoys Cyric? He's always been similar in my Realms games as The Joker is to Gotham's residents in DC Comics. He's a lot of fun to play with. I just feel as if most people are too intimidated by him to make great use of.

Especially since we lack a god of chaos in the Realms...and a god of anarchy...and a god of madness. Granted Cyric has none of those portfolios for some strange reason but he sure fits the scope of them all.
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30204 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2012 :  06:00:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

I'd have to vote for Leira, as I'm not overly fond of Cyric- too nuts- and I never cared much about most of the others.
I think Cyric was, for a lot of long-time Realms folk, a novelty deity that some of us were keen on because he was new and interesting -- I know, because I was definitely one of this lot of folk. But then that novelty soon wore off, and we then tended to see him as a poor substitute for the established deities he later replaced.



For me, the novelty wore off as soon as we saw more of him.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2012 :  06:06:58  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Razz

Am I the only one that enjoys Cyric? He's always been similar in my Realms games as The Joker is to Gotham's residents in DC Comics. He's a lot of fun to play with. I just feel as if most people are too intimidated by him to make great use of.
I can see that. But the Joker also has a degree of deadly comedic subtlety underling a lot of his more perverse capers... and that's something that Cyric often lacks.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe

688 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2012 :  06:25:05  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cyric has existed in print my whole life, I believe. He just seems part of the realms.
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

731 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2012 :  11:38:42  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I completely loathe Cyric and his addition to the Realms. Even after all these years, I can't stand him and never used him in my games.

Some people like to think that he's a kind of "Chaos" deity, or a "Troublemaker" deity. In the novels, he has certainly been all over the place and caused a lot of (usually ridiculous) trouble. Then he "went mad" and "got cured" and finally decided to murder Mystra. He's definitely active. WotC has tended to treat him as a favored character with a lot of plot armor.

But my distaste for him stems from several big plot and thematic reasons:

1- He was never organically introduced to the common people. BOOM he's plopped into the pantheon at the end of the ToT. Why on Faerun would he suddenly become worshiped as a major deity? If he'd had several years of making an impression on the common people, and if they had come to fear him and respect his power as a mortal, then it MIGHT have made sense. Instead, he's an instant greater deity. I hated that.

2- In the beginning, he maintained his greater deity status while fumbling around with portfolios. First he's Strife, then Death, then Assassins, oh wait, now he's Murder. Hang on, now it's Madness. And all the while, he's portrayed as stupid and incompetent. WHY is he still a greater deity, when there are tons of other deities that have millenia of experience and could take him down?

3- He's an incredibly poor replacement for the Three (Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul). Honestly, I don't know why they needed to be replaced. Each of them individually is a million times better than Cyric.

4- AO "gave" him everything. Cyric never earned his godhood. Mask put power into his hands, and it was a fumble-fest from the beginning. Cyric had no real power of his own, and he just happened to be in the magically right moment where he could trip up another deity. Mortals should not become gods based on accidents, and they should not have massive power thrust upon them instantly. Don't we all hate the munchkin PC who is given an artifact by a Monty Haul DM? Cyric is that, and has never impressed me with anything to suggest he is better than that.

5- The concept for the ToT was interesting, but its execution was incredibly poor and juvenile. It's some of the worst-written fiction that the Realms has to offer. And yet, it's forced into the timeline as canon. What's worse is that they KNOW it's bad. They had to fix subsequent problems with the "madness" story (which made things even worse and more stupid, IMO) and they've used him as a major thematic point for both the Spellplague (murdering Mystra), the aftermath (he's locked up, supposedly), and he will feature in the next cataclysm as well for 5E. All I want to do is shake the WotC staff really hard and scream, "STOP WITH CYRIC ALREADY, UGH!" But they love Cyric more than candy, it seems.

Instead, my only real option is to quit buying the Realms and move on to something that's actually good.


"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
Go to Top of Page

daarkknight
Seeker

USA
63 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2012 :  15:43:27  Show Profile Send daarkknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The end game of my final 2E campaign was involved a Nimbrese mage cutting a deal with Iyachtu Xvim and both of them (along with the other PCs and allies of Xvim) attacking Cyric on his home plane. The deal was that the mage, Larshan, would get the portfolio of illusion, and Xvim could take tyranny back from Cyric.

They succeeded, and as has been the standard of all of my campaigns since then, Larshan has been the god of illusion and Xvim transformed back into Bane. And I've never touched Cyric since.

"That's it!"
Quote attributed to Talor Stormhammer, paladin of Helm, when fighting a frost giant.
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2008 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2012 :  20:26:01  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with you Eltheron. WotC has made a lot of mistakes lately. I haven't completely given up on them, because I still love the Realms, but there are some things I'm not happy about. But I'm not in control, so there isn't a whole lot I can do, except maybe complain XD

Anyway, I've never been fond of Cyric myself, but I don't think they should get rid of him. I'm tired of deities dying. I actually kind of liked Cyric when he was mortal, but I'd read other books before the Avatar series, so I knew what he became. I think he had a thing for Midnight, and maybe, maybe he was jealous of Kelemvor.

Sweet water and light laughter
Go to Top of Page

MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe

688 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2012 :  21:55:57  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When Cyric took on the mantle of Myrkul, Bane, and Bhaal he presumably absorbed any worship directed at them and sent visions/emissaries etc. to convert people. It seems perfectly logical to me that he was instantly a Greater deity. Especially if the possession of portfolios increases your power, not just reverence for you.

Cyric's madness and fumbling as an evil deity is endearing. He's crazy like an unstable serial killer, not like a mad tyrant. I like that. Who needs subtlety when you are insane? His chaotic evil alignment was a huge void in the pantheon in my opinion. I find him far more interesting than Bane, Bhaal or Myrkul. Wizards probably does research to see what people like and Cyric makes the cut. The books about the Cyrinshad, his trial, and so forth are some of my favourite novels in the realms. (Shadowdale, Tantras, and Waterdeep not so much....I couldn't finish Waterdeep) The authors use him because he is an excellent character. He is included in products because people like him.

He was also created in 1988 it seems weird that you're talking about not buying realms products because of him now :S That is the year I was born.
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2008 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2012 :  23:23:32  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm still buying Realms products. I buy a lot of them, actually. Never said I wasn't. I want to see where the world is going. I'm invested in it (in more ways than one). In fact, I've been keeping an eye out for which novels are coming out. Cyric is not the reason I would stop buying them either. He's not THAT big of a deal, I just don't like him, and I was using him as an example because he's the current topic of conversation (and admittedly I did forget when the Avatar series came out). But as I said, I don't want him to die, either. I'm tired of deities dying.

Guess I should have been more clear, and I suppose mistakes are bound to happen, I just agree that Cyric's ascension to greater godhood happened really fast, and it seems like they had it that way so there could be an instant replacement to those who died, because they needed -someone- to fill the void that was left. Though I guess a similar thing happened with Torm. He became the Threefold God when Tyr and Helm died. It just seemed...rushed is all, but maybe that's the way the cosmos (and Ao?) works. Otherwise...chaos and destruction! Hmm...

Sweet water and light laughter
Go to Top of Page

MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe

688 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2012 :  00:43:00  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That was directed at Eltheron (the person who said he was not buying realms products...)

Kelemvor became a Greater Deity instantly, too. Does that bother anyone? (and if you consider 4e anything to base anything on, I don't, then Asmodeus?)
Go to Top of Page

LastStand
Learned Scribe

130 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2012 :  11:22:05  Show Profile Send LastStand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I like having Kelemvor, because he's fair but firm, and I think the god of death should be neutral. I voted for Leira, since you could vote for one, but I like Kelemvor



I prefer the deity of death to be neutral as well - although more chaotic neutral with a hint of wickedness. That said I like the Raven Queen more than Kelemvor in this regard.

My vote goes to Leira. It would be so appropriate if her death was just a big scheme concocted by mask and herself - and if it results in Leira and Mask returning.

Not a fan of Cyric.

"Don't. The battlegrounds that you and I have returned from alive are too different."

~ Claymore ch106

Edited by - LastStand on 02 Dec 2012 11:24:00
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5803 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2012 :  13:51:50  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I agree with you Eltheron. WotC has made a lot of mistakes lately. I haven't completely given up on them, because I still love the Realms, but there are some things I'm not happy about. But I'm not in control, so there isn't a whole lot I can do, except maybe complain XD

Anyway, I've never been fond of Cyric myself, but I don't think they should get rid of him. I'm tired of deities dying. I actually kind of liked Cyric when he was mortal, but I'd read other books before the Avatar series, so I knew what he became. I think he had a thing for Midnight, and maybe, maybe he was jealous of Kelemvor.



They don't need to kill him. He's entrapped in his domain right now. If his domain had a sudden portal to the place where vestiges go open up and he got sucked in.... he'd make a great vestige for binders I believe.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5803 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2012 :  13:53:59  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LastStand

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I like having Kelemvor, because he's fair but firm, and I think the god of death should be neutral. I voted for Leira, since you could vote for one, but I like Kelemvor



I prefer the deity of death to be neutral as well - although more chaotic neutral with a hint of wickedness. That said I like the Raven Queen more than Kelemvor in this regard.

My vote goes to Leira. It would be so appropriate if her death was just a big scheme concocted by mask and herself - and if it results in Leira and Mask returning.

Not a fan of Cyric.



Putting in my vote for...loving that idea.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5803 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2012 :  13:57:00  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, and as long as we're talking about Mask and Leira in the same sentence. We often hear of gods being "in love", but they're always good deities it seems. Personally, I would find it very interesting if Mask and Leira were intimated as being in love (especially if Mask got the intrigue portfolio back). Him being a lord of shadows... her being a lady of illusions... both being master tricksters.... if what they were pulling off was some major divine "con job", this would be perfect.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

daarkknight
Seeker

USA
63 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2012 :  15:11:04  Show Profile Send daarkknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Oh, and as long as we're talking about Mask and Leira in the same sentence. We often hear of gods being "in love", but they're always good deities it seems. Personally, I would find it very interesting if Mask and Leira were intimated as being in love (especially if Mask got the intrigue portfolio back). Him being a lord of shadows... her being a lady of illusions... both being master tricksters.... if what they were pulling off was some major divine "con job", this would be perfect.



This I would get behind in a heartbeat. Not only do you get a major power player "tag team," but you'd also, if you wanted as a DM, get to play off of each other. As in do they truly have each other's back or is she pulling the illusion over his eyes and is he just stringing her along to benefit his intrigues.

"That's it!"
Quote attributed to Talor Stormhammer, paladin of Helm, when fighting a frost giant.
Go to Top of Page

KacyCrawford
Seeker

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2013 :  17:46:50  Show Profile Send KacyCrawford a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have voted for Cyric
Go to Top of Page

Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2013 :  18:27:01  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cyric is really one of those "hot button" issues for a lot of people.

For those who have been around from the very beginning, like me, I think we tend to see Cyric as an undeserving upstart and "wannabe" deity who has never lived up to his potential. He's always been treated like an unthinking lackey or flunky in most novels, and his priests have been (largely) little more than jokes in the game. It didn't help that the Avatar novels (aka Time of Troubles) were considered some of the worst-executed fiction ever produced for the Realms, very much disliked by fans at the time. Even in the old Baldur's Gate CRPG, his priests were just a joke.

On the other hand, a lot of people came to the Realms much later, when Cyric had been around a good while. I can totally understand that if you came in during late 2E or 3E, Cyric's written description seems pretty "badass" on the surface. And if your DMs at home have used him to good effect, it certainly makes even more sense why you might like him.

For myself, back in the misty days of 1E adventuring, our DM quite masterfully used Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul to -really- good effect. For us, Bane was a complex and devious tyrant deity. Bhaal was the stuff of nightmares and screams in the night. And Myrkul was perhaps the best IMO because his manifestations sometimes were quiet and still - but at other times, terrifying and horrific. It helped, certainly, that our group fought against a very clever sect of Myrkul's priests who nightmarishly controlled a disparate group of Cormyrean nobles by animating their dead relatives into unlife. It was a mixture of politics, terrorism, and fear, and it was brilliant.

Cyric on the other hand, meh. Despite the events in the Avatar series, nothing about him says "I earned my divinity" or even that he is worthy of being worshiped. Personally, for 5E it wouldn't make much sense to just kill him. But the theme of power continually slipping from his grasp should be his story. He allied with Shar, after all, so it makes sense that he should lose almost everything. Perhaps retain him as a very minor demigod of madness, carelessness and idiocy, with mortals using his story as a "life lesson" of one's reach seriously exceeding one's grasp.


4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5803 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2013 :  18:46:01  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted Leira, but I'd love to see both Bane and Xvim back, and possibly at odds. Myrkul I'd love to see more involved with the world, but not back as a deity. Personally, I'd most like to see Velsharoon back, and his religious symbology would show him wielding the Skull Staff of Necromancers (which according to my homebrew lore is also a vestige phylactery), wearing the crown of horns, with the phylactery of Mellifleur hanging on a chain from his belt, the tooth necklace of Thasmudyan encircling his neck, and possibly a rod of obsidian and iron topped with a human skull and studded with blood rubies. Then put forth a theory that Velsharoon is actually controlled by Myrkul... and vice versa... and throw in Thasmudyan.... and Mellifleur... and Tenebrous....

Then I would say bring back Kiaransalee as well and have it be that Kiaransalee and Velsharoon are a joined pair in death, both having found their "soulmate" in the other (not that they wouldn't harm each other if they had a reason to).... and both hate Orcus.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Rolk Flameraven
Acolyte

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2013 :  08:05:33  Show Profile  Visit Rolk Flameraven's Homepage  Send Rolk Flameraven an AOL message Send Rolk Flameraven a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With Cyric "imprisoned" in the Supreme Throne. Could he loose most of his power over the next 1000 years. Run into what is lift of Valigan Thirdborn now that Tyr is dead and come back as the god of Anarchy?

I for one like Kel just as he is. One of my players would love for Bhaal to come back just so he can kill him and take his job and Xvim is a beater Bane then Bane IF he is just using the name of her father and I love that idea.

Though I must ask, with this question of bringing back dead gods. Just how many people would you need to have worshiping you to

A)Ascend as Tchazzar did.

B) Wake up, as I'm planning on having Auppenser be in my arcane magic dead Realms

C) Come back from the Dead.

I would guess it would have to be a lot or Dead gods wouldn't stay dead right? Or is it just that the new god goes, all hail the new god of "X" in a dream to all (most) of the Clerics of the old god and there is this mass conversion so the old god just stays dead?
Go to Top of Page

Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1153 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2013 :  04:45:41  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The point of this thread moot, they're all coming back. Apparently the Sundering of Abier and Toril releases a great burst of life force throughout the cosmos restoring all the dead Gods to life. Makes me think of Nuclear Fission, splitting a atom releasing powerful energy, splitting worlds apart appears to do the same, only the energy released isn't heat and radiation, its lifeforce, abit probably not in the Mortal Sense, but rather divine life force.
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2008 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2013 :  05:52:30  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They may all be coming back, but people still have their favorites and those they would most like to see come back.

Sweet water and light laughter
Go to Top of Page

LordAo
Acolyte

7 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2013 :  07:11:26  Show Profile  Visit LordAo's Homepage Send LordAo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If we do get this lifeburst thing, then I want some unknown long forgotten gods to show up an dmake everyone go


OH S*** WE KILLED YOU ALREADY! I want some like old doomsday from obscure early day lore , not bahhal but something really really vast and just outright makes the gods seem like new baby powers and forces Ao to step in and lock it back up and shows that he does not run the entire show.


Mod Edit: Watch the language, please.






Edited by - The Sage on 29 Aug 2013 09:10:48
Go to Top of Page

Bhaal
Seeker

22 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2013 :  18:15:20  Show Profile Send Bhaal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
His spelling is also atrocious. I mean, "bahhal"? The real Lord Ao would have much better attention to detail. He also wouldn't stoop to using regular posting methods. He'd have invasive popup windows with lots of angry GIFs involving Samuel Jackson that couldn't be moderated by a mortal.

Go to Top of Page

LordAo
Acolyte

7 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2013 :  20:50:28  Show Profile  Visit LordAo's Homepage Send LordAo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If I payed more attention to detail, how did my tablets get stolen, or need to do this sundering business. Please, I have other things to take care of then little murder minions.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 9 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000