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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1063 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  13:18:16  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Poll Question:
Do you want Myrukul and Bhaal back?

This is my firs poll, i hope i am doing it right.

Reasons for this new thread.

I am not the bigest fan of Cyric, and if i coud meake a wish i woud whant Myrkul and bhaal back.

If you whant Cyric/ Bane to stay, vote for them, if you want Bhaal - Myrkul -Iyachtu Xvim - Leira back vote for them.

Choices:

Cyric - God of murder, lies, intrigue, deception, illusion
Bane - God of strife, hatred, tyranny, fear
Bhaal - Former god of assassination, murder, violence. Slain by Cyric and Mask
Myrkul - Former god of corruption, the dead, death, old age. Slain by Mystra.
Iyachtu Xvim - Former god of tyranny, hatred, fear. Destroyed by Bane during his return.
Leira - Former goddess of deception, illusion. Slain by Cyric and Mask.
Kelemvor - God of death, the dead

(Anonymous Vote)

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

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Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 08 Dec 2006 16:40:03

Besshalar
Learned Scribe

Finland
166 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  13:35:06  Show Profile  Visit Besshalar's Homepage  Click to see Besshalar's MSN Messenger address Send Besshalar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted Myrkul it would be nice to see him return.

The large print giveth , and the small print taketh away.
-Tom Waits
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1063 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  13:38:10  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks great i am not the only missing the wise and intelligent white skull in dark robes.

I voted Myrkul...

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  14:02:22  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This really isn't much for me to decide here.

Since I've never used the ToT in my FR... Myrkul, Bhaal, and Bane are still gods who continue to maintain their original portfolios whenever I feature tidbits about them in my campaigns.

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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe

Greece
273 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  15:05:33  Show Profile Send Marquant Volker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tremble before the God of hatred ! Lord Bane your loyal servant has fulfiled his duty!

hmmm..i was a bit carried away i guess...i didnt wanted to reveal my vote ...really!

Edited by - Marquant Volker on 14 Dec 2006 11:23:18
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  16:32:13  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

This really isn't much for me to decide here.

Since I've never used the ToT in my FR... Myrkul, Bhaal, and Bane are still gods who continue to maintain their original portfolios whenever I feature tidbits about them in my campaigns.




What he said is how my FR is also. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

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Zimme
Learned Scribe

Denmark
209 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  16:32:56  Show Profile  Click to see Zimme's MSN Messenger address Send Zimme a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted for Bane,there it is, he is the focus of many of the quests my players are doing, the guy everyone loves to hate.

Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!

Rannek.

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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1063 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  16:51:55  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sometimes i think that the The Sage and Kuje are the same person.....


Myrkul Also-Known-As The Reaper and Old Lord Skull, was one of the most interesting gods in Forgotten Realsm. I realy cant understand / belive that they had to remove him...

Just a link as reminder of the most briliant good in Forgotten Realms.
http://www.shadowrealms-cardiff.co.uk/religion/myrkul.html

I still pray that one day you come back and slay Velsharoon and Kelemvor.

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  17:00:53  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor

Sometimes i think that the The Sage and Kuje are the same person.....




Well, him and I like what we like and we like the old material/deities. :) None of these new fangdlgled new whippersnapper deities that rose up during the Time of Troubles. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1176 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  17:22:56  Show Profile  Visit Kaladorm's Homepage Send Kaladorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't understand, are we choosing who should come back or who should stay?

Cyric, Kelemvor and Bane are still around.
Leira, Xvim, Myrkul and Bhaal are not.

It's not a simple case of choose one over another. I'd like to see Leira back, but to keep Cyric.

I also like Kelemvor's take on the god of the dead, a refreshing change, though Myrkul was good also.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30204 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  17:27:05  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cyric, to me, is an opportunistic git, and someone who perfectly fits the concept some players have that being evil means being a murderous psychopath. Since his ascension, he's been "Ooh, look at me, I'm evil!" I don't like that, so I don't like Cyric.

Bane has never appealed to me, either. Though he's not the lunatic Cyric is, to me he comes across as being much like Cyric -- evil for evil's sake. I wasn't pleased with his return.

I'm happy that Bhaal is dead. I didn't see the point to him. "Ooh, I like to kill people!"

I like Myrkul's current state. I didn't have many feelings towards him as a deity, either positive or negative. But a former god who's now a powerful artifact, happily popping around the Realms causing trouble? Ooh, now that is a seriously fun concept!

I really liked Iyachtu Xvim. I felt he had style that daddy Bane and psycho Cyric both lacked. I wasn't pleased with his (apparent) demise.

Leira. Eh. No real opinion on her.

Kelemvor I like. I much prefer his "Death is natural, deal with it." approach to Myrkul's "Ooh, death is scary!" approach.

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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1063 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  17:31:11  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

I don't understand, are we choosing who should come back or who should stay?

Cyric, Kelemvor and Bane are still around.
Leira, Xvim, Myrkul and Bhaal are not.

It's not a simple case of choose one over another. I'd like to see Leira back, but to keep Cyric.

I also like Kelemvor's take on the god of the dead, a refreshing change, though Myrkul was good also.



You have one vote either choose who should come back or who should stay. Thats that.

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1063 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  17:34:10  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are there eny evil goods beside Iyachtu Xvim you like Wooly Rupert?. i like youre post above but not the part Myrkul.... hmmm..

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

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Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 08 Dec 2006 17:34:28
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30204 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  17:43:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor

Are there eny evil goods beside Iyachtu Xvim you like Wooly Rupert?. i like youre post above but not the part Myrkul.... hmmm..



Sure, just so long as they don't play the "Ooh, I'm evil!" card. I have no issues with Talos, Shar, Mask, or Malar, for example... I liked Iyachtu Xvim, when he was a god. I really like Vhaeraun, too.

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Dhomal
Senior Scribe

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  20:04:56  Show Profile  Visit Dhomal's Homepage Send Dhomal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello-

I personally did not particularly ever 'get into' Bhaal or Myrkul. One thing I do remember noticing was that there seemed to be a lot of overlap between them (IIRC) - and that seemed odd to me. Possibly why the designers/etc decided to consolidate them during the ToT.

Bane vs. Xvim vs. Cyric: Well - this is more difficult. I dont personally see Bane and Cyric being 'Hey - I'm Evil!' quite so much - and I like that Bane's #1 (Fzoul) is leading the Zhentarim - and is acting somewhat like the 'new' vision of the Thay's - mercantile doom, as I call it. :) Cyric works well as being 'crazy' - and I think it works for now. I can see him becoming less of an influence - or possibly even being removed at some point though. As far as Xvim goes - I seem to recall liking some of what I read - and not other parts. Being Bane's son was no biggie to me - even made some sense - but the one thing that irked more more than anything was his Name! How on Toril do you pronounce that? LOL

As far as Leira goes - I do somewhat miss her. There was a period of time in my gaming history where I played Illusionists a LOT - and she was great as a god for Illusionists. I think it would be terribly clever if we found out she was not dead - but had actually killed her killer when attacked - and has been supplying His followers with spells ever since.... Not terribly likely mind you - but I thought it would be amusing at least!

Lastly, as for Kelemvor - I Really like him! I would say my 2nd favorite god, behind Shaundakul! His different take on death/dying is Very refreshing as Kaladorm mentioned - and it makes for some great RP - especially in the timeline directly after the ToT.

I have even considered writing a serios of articles for the Compendium about him - after Shaundakul - though I fully know that there is a LOT more information on him than there was on Shaundakul, which would lengthen the research time.

Dhomal

I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  23:46:23  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor

Sometimes i think that the The Sage and Kuje are the same person.....




Well, him and I like what we like and we like the old material/deities. :) None of these new fangdlgled new whippersnapper deities that rose up during the Time of Troubles. :)

Exactly.

And Wooly hit the nail right on the head with regard to Cyric. I feel much the same way.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2006 :  23:50:36  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I really liked Iyachtu Xvim. I felt he had style that daddy Bane and psycho Cyric both lacked. I wasn't pleased with his (apparent) demise.
The name "Xvim" has more zazz than simple ol' "Bane", which I think is part of his appeal... but I could never quite get over "Iyachtu". It balances well with Xvim, but I hear too many players and DMs alike putting too much hard emphasis on it and pronouncing it "I yuk too".

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2006 :  03:33:07  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with Wooly about Kelemvor. I do like the idea of death being a somber matter rather than a scarry one. Also, I know that Myrkul likely predates him as far as Ed's Realms go, but I think another matter that might have contributed to Myrkul's demise is the idea that a "grim reaper" death god (not that this is what Myrkul was meant to be, but its how he was often percieved) is very much like Nerull in Greyhawk, and Nerull is older in terms of "D&D publication." I don't know that it was an issue, but its something to consider.

I also think that Bane, as a name, has a bit more gravitas than Xvim, but I did think that Xvim had an interesting recent history, which is why I wrote this piece:

http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/gotlt.htm

Which essentially lets Bane "come back" but still maintains all of Xvim's hard work.

Oh, Sage, I know I had a tendancy to just use Xvim when refering to the god in question instead of using his full name. Usually the only time the PCs saw his full name was when they found some ancient writing about him, somewhat similar to how Kelemvor is referred to as Kelemvor, and not Kelemvor Lyonsbane now that he is a god.


"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2006 :  04:00:23  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

Oh, Sage, I know I had a tendancy to just use Xvim when refering to the god in question instead of using his full name.
That works for me.

I've got tentative theories about including Xvim in my Realms... but I'd need to change a significant amount of my own campaign lore regarding Bane in order to do it. As it is, I think I'm happy just having "obscure" references to the Baneson in the lore -- nothing definite -- just potential hooks for future expansion if and when I decide Xvim may have a place in my FR.

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Marc
Senior Scribe

618 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2006 :  12:44:03  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will probably be the only one who votes like this, but Cyric the One, the All, the Everything. IMO the game is more fun with his servants around, than some dull tyrants with no mystery around them

.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30204 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2006 :  16:45:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know, I'm more and more favoring the idea that Bane 2.0 isn't really Bane, but a new and improved version of Xvim capitalizing on his late father's position and reputation.

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Marc
Senior Scribe

618 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2006 :  16:53:57  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also ''strife'' belongs to Cyric, not Bane

.
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2006 :  16:58:57  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As I am in the group that has ignored the whole Time of Trouble and its later effects I can not really vote: I like the old pantheon and have no need for the newer gods.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2006 :  18:21:35  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

You know, I'm more and more favoring the idea that Bane 2.0 isn't really Bane, but a new and improved version of Xvim capitalizing on his late father's position and reputation.




Yes, my Wooly one. Now that you have seen the "light," you can never be allowed to speak of this to ANYONE . . . bwa ha ha ha . . . "Bane's" reputation MUST be preserved . . .

Honestly though, as abrupt as Bane's return was, it definately got my wheels turning on how Xvim might have done this to get a "boost" from his father's reputation. Sure, the Zhentarim were under his control, but people were more afraid of Fzoul than they were of his god . . . co-opting Bane's name helps get you more respect.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

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Halidan
Senior Scribe

USA
470 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2006 :  18:32:47  Show Profile  Visit Halidan's Homepage Send Halidan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've always been a fan of Leira. Especially since playing the original Baldur's Gate computer game and running into a cleric of Liera named Shaella. She describes Leira and gives some interesting insites into the Leirian faith after the Time of Troubles. It went as follows:

quote:
"Leira, Lady of Mists, Mother of All Illusion, the Guardian of Deception, the Mistshadow. Some say she died in the Time of Troubles, killed by Cyric, betrayed by Mask. Some say she loved Mask and loves him still. Some say gods can die. Some say gods can be born. Some say gods can live. Some say gods are an illusion we create for our own contentment. Some say gods are an illusion we create to disguise our fear of living, our fear of dying, our fear of being. If gods are a disguise, if gods are an illusion, then perhaps Leira is the only beacon of truth in our entire pantheon of lies. But if gods are real and true and all-knowing, then Leira cannot be a god and must be dead if indeed she ever lived at all."


In my campaigns, Mask never really betrayed Leira. He didn't have time to warn her that Cyric was going to kill her. However, since Mask was also still maintaining the form of the sword Godsbane, he could act to save her while also still appearing to help Cyric.

When Cyric ambushed Leira, Mask (in Godsbane form) actually drew her essence into the sword and hid her alongside Kelemvor. She thus lives, and along with Mystra and Kelemvor, is activly plotting Cryic's downfall.

"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"

Edgar Allen Poe - 1849
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2006 :  18:45:24  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know, its completely because of logic as listed in that quote above that I can see Leira having quite a few followers in the "Servant of the Fallen" category. The dogma seems to definately lend itself to questioning if we really know what we know, and if we don't, how can you know that a god is dead? To whit, Leira may have one of the more active "dead" churches in Faerun, since proof of her death isn't much of a deterrant to the faith.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

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