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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 00:15:36
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I was wondering if someone could clarify some stuff in LEOF and particularly its history
Going off LEOF
-22,900 Elven kingdom of Illefarn founded
-1100 Illefarns last coronal orders a retreat to Evermeet (The Kingdoms fragments in a number of elven nations
-206 The last Coronal of Illefarn is killed by drow (Presumably this is Illefarn 2.0 that includes non elven people)and going off the next timeline entry they replace the Coronal with a council
342 The last council of Illefarn is called and the long fragmented kingdom is officially disolved another Illefarn 3.0 is founded when Ardeep and Darth join together
523 Illefarn 3.0 becomes part of Phalorm
Illefarn 1.0 is presumably a purely elven realm
Illefarn 2.0 When was it founded and what was its racial make up?
Illefarn 3.0 is Dwarven and Elven Kingdom up until its rolled into Phalorm
Any help would be much appreciated ultimately Im trying to see how well the background story of Neverwinter Nights 2 fits into established realms lore
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 00:44:38
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Ahh, our seminal Fallen Kingdom work. Still so elegant and all-encompassing. Of course, to acknowledge all of the Illefarn references we had to blow up and rebuild the place a couple of times. 
The first Illefarn is the major elven realm given most detail in "Cormanthyr". The notation you attribute to an 'Illefarn 2' operates from a false premise. Illefarn as a cohesive elven nation did indeed fragment into smaller kingdoms in -1100 DR, but there was no Illefarn 2 formed during this period. Simply, the former ruler hung around in the area (he did spend some time in Evermeet but pined for his home woodlands) and continued to live on with a group of loyal vassals and retainers until slain as noted. He would flit from Iliyanbruen to Ardeep etc. as a revered elder and roving arbiter of conflicts but with no ruling authority. Given that the coronals of Illefarn were selected and not hereditary, this isn't surprising.
The 'real' Illefarn 2 was the alliance of moon elven Ardeep and dwarven Dardath in 342 DR following their common alliance to destroy the orc horde that overwhelmed Athalantar. It was this 'Illefarn' that joined Phalorm, the Fallen Kingdom.
There actually was an Illefarn 3 but it existed for an eye blink in the handful of years after the fall of Eaerlann and the transformation of Ascalhorn into Hellgate Keep. Following the fall of Eaerlann, groups of elves joined their kin in the Ardeep forest (originally having intended to keep heading west to Evermeet). There they took pause and decided to re-found Ardeep as an elven nation that they linked to ancient Illefarn - hence Illefarn 3 (no elven 'realm' having existed there since the fall of Phalorm in 614 DR).
This 'kingdom' lasted only a few short years as it couldn't exist without significant contact with humans. Given the events of Hellgate Keep, there was (understandably) significant anti-human sentiment among the elves and after an uneasy period most of the Eaerlanni elves left for Evermeet, reducing Illefarn 3 once more to a few groupings of moon elves who identifed more with Ardeep than ancient Illefarn.
There you have it. Hope this has been useful.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 00:52:53
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So what races where present in the "Illefarn" that existed around the time of Karsus little "accident"?
I actually like the historic background Obsidian came up with for NWN2 (although I havent finished it yet)and Im interested to see if it fits |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 01:19:16
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Umm, there was no Illefarn in -339 DR. Only its scattered vassal kingdoms. However, to outsiders and arrogant Netherese, Illefarn would still be considered to exist in its -1100 DR incarnation. They wouldn't know about the inner political workings of the now defunct realm. Note that term Illefarn we are using here is in terms of kingdoms. Illefarn was also very widely used as a regional descriptor. certainly so by the Netherese.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 01:37:53
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In that case the developers may have created an Illefarn for the story
That 352 entry in LEOF does imply that there was an Illefarn with some sort of organisation before that time and to me it doesnt seem right that they would be refering to the one that disolved in 1300 years ago |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 28 Nov 2006 01:42:38 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 04:06:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
In that case the developers may have created an Illefarn for the story
That 352 entry in LEOF does imply that there was an Illefarn with some sort of organisation before that time and to me it doesnt seem right that they would be refering to the one that disolved in 1300 years ago
I assume you mean 342 DR. Umm, why does this entry make you think that there was an Illefarn with some sort of organisation before that time and after -1100 DR? If it's the use of the term "Council of Illefarn", don't be misled by the seemingly obvious connotations of that term. The Council of Illefarn was a gathering of the elves and dwarves and some trusted humans to address the question of the burgeoning human population of the Sword Coast North, trade, what it meant for the dwarven and elven settlements in the region and how they could best co-exist without resorting to open conflict. Like I said, whilst humans as far away as Netheril may have thought that Illefarn continued to exist past -1100 DR (and likely it suited the elves to have them continue thinking that or else the area became too attractive for large-scale Netherese immigration), as a cohesive, unified realm it did not.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 04:20:04
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quote:
342 The last council of Illefarn is called and the long fragmented kingdom is officially disolved another Illefarn 3.0 is founded when Ardeep and Dardath join together
The way I read this is that as of 342 theres an Illefarn buts its a very loose federation/Union or Commonwealth and the memebers are so disunited that they decide to do away with it all together
The "long fragmented Kingdom" of Illefarn seems to imply that theres been a goverment of sorts using that name before the break up (and the original elven Illefarn would seem to be to long ago to be it)
Thats just how that entry reads to me
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 05:31:48
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Hmm, considering I wrote that entry I can tell you that 'long fragmented' refers to the Illefarn that was dissolved in -1100 DR. You are right about the sub-kingdoms existing after that but they were independent, albeit allied generally through familial and racial ties. A realm of Illefarn after -1100 DR? Nope. Not until 342 DR. But hey, go with whatever suits you.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 03:01:24
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| He just may have trumped you on that one, Great Reader Dargoth... |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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A little help with Illefarn
