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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2006 :  18:15:00  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar

IMO I think people often concentrate a little too much on the "good" aspect of a paladin more than the "law" aspect of the paladin



I've always felt the opposite -- that people focus too much on the lawful aspect.



I don't really think most anyone really "gets" a paladin...like the True Neutrality of a druid (pre-3E)

That is why the biggest reason I enjoyed the Pools novel series were the paladins, the old paladin mentor and the undead paladin...both paragons of paladinhood without the stigma of the "uber-paladin" mentality...which is what I think turns people off...



This is why I hesitate to allow paladins in my games when I DM. Most people play them as fanatics that must kill all evil after they find them on their "evil radar". It bothers me to much and so most of the time I think long and hard about a PC playing a paladin. Yes, some paladins are like that depending on their deities but in 10+ years of DMing, almost every PC paladin that I've seen as a DM or a player are like that. GAH!

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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe

Canada
956 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2006 :  18:25:54  Show Profile  Visit Kalin Agrivar's Homepage  Click to see Kalin Agrivar's MSN Messenger address Send Kalin Agrivar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
This is why I hesitate to allow paladins in my games when I DM. Most people play them as fanatics that must kill all evil after they find them on their "evil radar". It bothers me to much and so most of the time I think long and hard about a PC playing a paladin. Yes, some paladins are like that depending on their deities but in 10+ years of DMing, almost every PC paladin that I've seen as a DM or a player are like that. GAH!



I'v only known a couple of people that have even wanted to play a paladin...and after that Dragon magizine (310 I think) with the other alignment-varients of paladins I'v had more requests for those than any LG paladin

heck, very few characters I'v ever seen even play LG alignment

Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar

- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31232 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2006 :  19:30:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar

IMO I think people often concentrate a little too much on the "good" aspect of a paladin more than the "law" aspect of the paladin



I've always felt the opposite -- that people focus too much on the lawful aspect.



I don't really think most anyone really "gets" a paladin...like the True Neutrality of a druid (pre-3E)

That is why the biggest reason I enjoyed the Pools novel series were the paladins, the old paladin mentor and the undead paladin...both paragons of paladinhood without the stigma of the "uber-paladin" mentality...which is what I think turns people off...



Well, as I've said before, some people just don't get the whole alignment gig. They either read it incorrectly (like CN, or any evil alignment), or they stick with a stereotype. I don't feel it's a fault of the system (as some do); it's a fault of the players.

I've never played a paladin, but it's because of my aversion to playing the religious-based characters, not because of the alignment. I've played a couple of LG characters, and neither one was "lawful stupid" or "awful good".

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Titus le Chmakus
Seeker

43 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2017 :  09:40:15  Show Profile Send Titus le Chmakus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry for necro but best than creating another topic on the same subject !

Do all the gods on Faerun have fighting clerics in 3.5ed ? Or some gods have all their clerics not fighting at all (which ones) ?

Thanks

Edited by - Titus le Chmakus on 29 Dec 2017 09:41:19
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore

Netherlands
1249 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2018 :  13:31:13  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Power of Faerun is a nice tome to ponder over questions such as these. Actual percentages of the amount of clerics vs other classes can be found in the old Faiths and Avatars tome series, under "The Church" headers. From most one can guesstimate the amount of acolytes vs actual fighting clerics active in the church.

Most large churches have lots of people affiliated to a place of worship and that wield no divine power but are responsible for a particular aspect of the daily life of that temple/cathedral. Think temple gardeners, guards, chefs, scullions and scullery maids, scribes, carpenters and others that perform the menial tasks of running a religious building. One would be wise to take in consideration that most large temples in Faerun perform a particular social function, becoming the center (of learning) of that activity for many more than their church members alone during the cities daily bustle.

Gods with portfolios that somehow align with temple activities have actual clerics busying these aforementioned jobs themselves; Oghmas priests are scribes in addition to fighting clerics, Sunites are expert gardeners, Gondites are craftsmen, Tempus and Helmite clerics are temple guards, Tyrrans are lawyers and judges, etc. Many faerunians would discover their faith while being an acolyte to the temple learning the particular skill that temple provides.

Temples with large amounts of active clerics and paladin orders probably need them to protect the economic and political positions they have acquired, be that from external threats like monstrous activity, theft, rival churches, war and espionage or internal dangers of wasteful management, heresy and hierarchic turmoil. Having a large and versatile strata of the religious organization as fighting clerics gives most temples the ability to respond to happenings around there area. Mounted paladin orders are known to greatly expand the reach of the Arm of the Church.

Lesser Gods or those who don't care much for organized religion and who merely require unattended shrines might not have a social support structure at all, and would need less protection and financing. They have no large groups of fighting clerics, but each cleric tends to be more in touch with the divine (and is a higher level spellcaster) because of the traveling lifestyle.

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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1655 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  06:21:46  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

One thing to remember about Lolth is she used to have male priests.
[...]
I have not seen any explaination of what happened to Lolth's priests.

They just never got any limelight (except Rai-guy Bondalek). Being rare and ever the second class.
Lolth's priestesses distrust them (more than usual, that is) and consider them "more expendable" underlings, while other drow dudes distrust them and see them as a sad joke (IIRC in one novel a drow actually used comparison to these fellows as a contemptuous joke). This adds up to having life expectancy dubious even by the drow standards. It's just not a good career choice. Which is why they always were rare.
Being a servant of Selvetarm (in the cities where it's allowed) is also second class, but a better deal. Because roles are well-defined, and they have a separate hierarchy with different duties. Less of "below the priestesses" and more of "above the warriors".

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
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Edited by - TBeholder on 11 Jan 2018 06:23:20
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Titus le Chmakus
Seeker

43 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2018 :  10:36:44  Show Profile Send Titus le Chmakus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind

Power of Faerun is a nice tome to ponder over questions such as these. Actual percentages of the amount of clerics vs other classes can be found in the old Faiths and Avatars tome series, under "The Church" headers. From most one can guesstimate the amount of acolytes vs actual fighting clerics active in the church.

Most large churches have lots of people affiliated to a place of worship and that wield no divine power but are responsible for a particular aspect of the daily life of that temple/cathedral. Think temple gardeners, guards, chefs, scullions and scullery maids, scribes, carpenters and others that perform the menial tasks of running a religious building. One would be wise to take in consideration that most large temples in Faerun perform a particular social function, becoming the center (of learning) of that activity for many more than their church members alone during the cities daily bustle.

Gods with portfolios that somehow align with temple activities have actual clerics busying these aforementioned jobs themselves; Oghmas priests are scribes in addition to fighting clerics, Sunites are expert gardeners, Gondites are craftsmen, Tempus and Helmite clerics are temple guards, Tyrrans are lawyers and judges, etc. Many faerunians would discover their faith while being an acolyte to the temple learning the particular skill that temple provides.

Temples with large amounts of active clerics and paladin orders probably need them to protect the economic and political positions they have acquired, be that from external threats like monstrous activity, theft, rival churches, war and espionage or internal dangers of wasteful management, heresy and hierarchic turmoil. Having a large and versatile strata of the religious organization as fighting clerics gives most temples the ability to respond to happenings around there area. Mounted paladin orders are known to greatly expand the reach of the Arm of the Church.

Lesser Gods or those who don't care much for organized religion and who merely require unattended shrines might not have a social support structure at all, and would need less protection and financing. They have no large groups of fighting clerics, but each cleric tends to be more in touch with the divine (and is a higher level spellcaster) because of the traveling lifestyle.



Well it is not what I was asking in fact ! Thanks for your answer, but I was more asking if there are any gods in the Faerunian pantheon that NEVER have ANY fighting clerics ?
Or if all the gods have some clerics with martial abilities among their followers ? I mean not all the clerics would be warriors, but at least a part of them.
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