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Conlon
Learned Scribe

Canada
132 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2006 :  14:14:42  Show Profile  Visit Conlon's Homepage Send Conlon a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Could someone point me in the right direction please?

Where is the Harpers' destruction of Hellgate Keep detailed?

Thanks.

My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action.

Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4577 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2006 :  14:19:38  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Conlon

Could someone point me in the right direction please?

Where is the Harpers' destruction of Hellgate Keep detailed?

Thanks.



Im pretty sure its in Cloak and Dagger and the Hellsgate keep module

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31515 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2006 :  17:38:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

quote:
Originally posted by Conlon

Could someone point me in the right direction please?

Where is the Harpers' destruction of Hellgate Keep detailed?

Thanks.



Im pretty sure its in Cloak and Dagger and the Hellsgate keep module



Yup. And in addition to Cloak & Dagger (one of the best sourcebooks out there, in any edition) and Hellgate Keep (the primary source), there's a line or two in the Gatekeeper's Crystal write-up in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical (formerly a suppressed work ). The latter book, another wonderful resource, is available for free from the Wizards downloads page.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Aug 2006 17:39:18
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Conlon
Learned Scribe

Canada
132 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2006 :  01:16:28  Show Profile  Visit Conlon's Homepage Send Conlon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks gents. Looks like I'm going to have to purchase that Cloak and Dagger I've been hearing so much about. Too bad it isn't one of those freebies from Wizards..

My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action.
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2006 :  01:24:53  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Conlon

Thanks gents. Looks like I'm going to have to purchase that Cloak and Dagger I've been hearing so much about. Too bad it isn't one of those freebies from Wizards..



It's worth it just for the Moonstar lore that hasn't really been detailed to much in current sourcebooks.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Conlon
Learned Scribe

Canada
132 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2006 :  01:34:43  Show Profile  Visit Conlon's Homepage Send Conlon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes. It sounds as though it is a favourite resource for many of the most informed sages. I had asked about a different topic previously and was also referred to this tome. I am looking forward to spending many hours poring over it, uncovering new (to me) lore...

My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31696 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2006 :  01:44:08  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Conlon

Yes. It sounds as though it is a favourite resource for many of the most informed sages. I had asked about a different topic previously and was also referred to this tome. I am looking forward to spending many hours poring over it, uncovering new (to me) lore...

Oh, it definitely is.

As Kuje said above, the Moonstar lore makes the tome a great purchase by itself.

Though the section on Westgate is also a plus.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31515 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2006 :  02:06:16  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Conlon

Yes. It sounds as though it is a favourite resource for many of the most informed sages. I had asked about a different topic previously and was also referred to this tome. I am looking forward to spending many hours poring over it, uncovering new (to me) lore...

Oh, it definitely is.

As Kuje said above, the Moonstar lore makes the tome a great purchase by itself.

Though the section on Westgate is also a plus.



The stuff on the Manshoon Wars is also great.

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Conlon
Learned Scribe

Canada
132 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2006 :  04:23:05  Show Profile  Visit Conlon's Homepage Send Conlon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kudos from four such esteemed scholars as yourselves has moved it up to being the next book on my list.

My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action.
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2006 :  15:09:34  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Conlon

Yes. It sounds as though it is a favourite resource for many of the most informed sages. I had asked about a different topic previously and was also referred to this tome. I am looking forward to spending many hours poring over it, uncovering new (to me) lore...

Oh, it definitely is.

As Kuje said above, the Moonstar lore makes the tome a great purchase by itself.

Though the section on Westgate is also a plus.



Am I the only one who mostly, really, liked it for the information about The Rundeen, then?
The stuff on the Manshoon Wars is also great.


There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2006 :  17:18:50  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase

Am I the only one who mostly, really, liked it for the information about The Rundeen, then?
The stuff on the Manshoon Wars is also great.



I liked it for all the groups. :) It has info on a lot of events/groups that have hardly ever been touched before or yet in current material.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31515 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2006 :  17:21:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase

Am I the only one who mostly, really, liked it for the information about The Rundeen, then?



Prolly not. We all have our reasons for liking this tome -- and there's just so many reasons to choose from!

I liked the Harper Schism because it shook things up and made the Harpers more interesting, and I liked the Manshoon Wars because it shook things up in the Zhentarim. In both cases, it presented a lot of potential.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31696 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2006 :  01:26:01  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I liked the Harper Schism because it shook things up and made the Harpers more interesting, and I liked the Manshoon Wars because it shook things up in the Zhentarim. In both cases, it presented a lot of potential.
The details on the Moonstars, the Harper Schism, the Manshoon Wars, and the section on Westgate are probably my favorite parts of the C&D sourcebook.

Though, I still mourn the loss of the Manshoon Wars expansion in 3e. And I know Wooly's right along there with me.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31515 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2006 :  01:52:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage


Though, I still mourn the loss of the Manshoon Wars expansion in 3e. And I know Wooly's right along there with me.



Oh gods, yes. They so utterly dropped the ball by not running with that one... And that's why I've chosen a creative interpretation of their statement that only three Manshoons remain.

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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1632 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2006 :  02:42:29  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage


Though, I still mourn the loss of the Manshoon Wars expansion in 3e. And I know Wooly's right along there with me.



Oh gods, yes. They so utterly dropped the ball by not running with that one... And that's why I've chosen a creative interpretation of their statement that only three Manshoons remain.



Wooly's campaign has 4 Womanshoons, 12 Hinshoons, 2.45 Dwarfshoons (don't ask--very complicated plot having to do with half-dragons and a djinni that was hard of hearing), and 19 Elfshoons.

Steven
Who will attest that there has never been nor will there ever be a Sharnshoon

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31515 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2006 :  04:09:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage


Though, I still mourn the loss of the Manshoon Wars expansion in 3e. And I know Wooly's right along there with me.



Oh gods, yes. They so utterly dropped the ball by not running with that one... And that's why I've chosen a creative interpretation of their statement that only three Manshoons remain.



Wooly's campaign has 4 Womanshoons, 12 Hinshoons, 2.45 Dwarfshoons (don't ask--very complicated plot having to do with half-dragons and a djinni that was hard of hearing), and 19 Elfshoons.

Steven
Who will attest that there has never been nor will there ever be a Sharnshoon





But you forgot the 3 censhoons, the four gnomeshoons, and the very confused Shoonshoon!

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe

341 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2006 :  06:30:40  Show Profile  Visit Mazrim_Taim's Homepage Send Mazrim_Taim a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I liked "The Current Clack" in C&D. I've read it about, oh 6 times now.

And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2006 :  07:04:46  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cloak and Dagger is one of those products where it is almost impossible to pick favorite parts, even the interior illustrations are among my all time favorites.

To late for jokes about Alaghishoons?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31515 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2006 :  07:47:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mazrim_Taim

I liked "The Current Clack" in C&D. I've read it about, oh 6 times now.



A lot of us have mourned the fact that 3E has dropped the Current Clack section that used to be in 2E products. That's a large part of what led to Kuje and I doing the "Untold Stories" in the Candlekeep Compendium (see the link in my sig) -- though Kuje's follow the old format much better than mine do!

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Conlon
Learned Scribe

Canada
132 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2006 :  01:24:17  Show Profile  Visit Conlon's Homepage Send Conlon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, I must pick up that book. Perhaps it will also explain the dwarven Runeshoons, the bardic Tuneshoons, and the Shou Lung Foomanshoons.

My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2006 :  17:12:18  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't forget the the trannishoons, the ambitious and ambiguous ambishoons, the broomshoons (good for getting rid of cats), the *Magic* mushoons, the Stay-puft marshoons, the Ides of Marshoon, the halfshoon, the tiefshoon, and, of course, their forbidden love child the linglingshoon. (Still one of my favorite D&D jokes ever.)

Cheers,

Erik
Proud part of the -Shoon dynasty.

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31515 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2006 :  18:21:55  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, we're getting silly now!

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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2006 :  18:25:20  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Wow, we're getting silly now!

And non to shoon!

I know, I know; I am going.
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe

USA
252 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2006 :  19:27:39  Show Profile  Visit Mkhaiwati's Homepage Send Mkhaiwati a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Wooly's campaign has 4 Womanshoons, 12 Hinshoons, 2.45 Dwarfshoons (don't ask--very complicated plot having to do with half-dragons and a djinni that was hard of hearing), and 19 Elfshoons.


Wooly already has Dwarfshoons? I thought I was the first to have them. But did he use half-steel dragons?

Mkhaiwati

"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."

"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2006 :  19:42:41  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In regard to the original question, I believe I interacted with one of the powers that be -- either Steven or Eric Boyd -- regarding the fall of Hellgate Keep (Hellgate features into the backstory of one of the characters in Ghostwalker), and we established that not a lot in specific happened.

Basically, the Harpers found an incredibly destructive artifact when paired with spellcasting support, a group rushed in, suicide-mission style, the demons/fiends went "WTF?", and BOOM! No more Hellgate.

I wish I could remember the name of that artifact. As I recall (and I could very well be wrong), it's the same one used by Sarya and her daemonfey minions in The Last Mythal.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Wow, we're getting silly now!



We weren't silly before?

(Man, where was I?)

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2006 :  19:51:02  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage  Click to see Chosen of Moradin's MSN Messenger address Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

I wish I could remember the name of that artifact. As I recall (and I could very well be wrong), it's the same one used by Sarya and her daemonfey minions in The Last Mythal.

Cheers



The Gatekeeper´s Cristal? Or something like this (where in the name of Orcus I put my Volo´s Guide to All Things Magical?)


Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P

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