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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1273 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  21:28:26  Show Profile Send Skeptic a Private Message  Delete Topic
From Eric Noah on EnWorld :
quote:
On a more serious note ... it is ironic that even yesterday I got some major scoops about the future of D&D. It is sounding like some of our most paranoid fears are in fact in the works.

-4E already in the works? Check.
-Even more miniatures-centric? Check.
-Much smaller bundles of game info, packaged and sold separately? Check.
-A plan to possibly sell off RPGs entirely? Check. (Apparently only miniatures and Magic are making any money for WotC).

Unfortunately I can't go into how I got the info or who gave it to me. And I don't think even WotC knows when they're going to announce anything. I got the impression that timing such an announcement with GenCon was no longer seen as optimal or necessary. But please take all as unsubstantiated speculation ... as usual!


That doesn't sound any good for an FR future....

Winterfox
Senior Scribe

895 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  21:35:53  Show Profile  Visit Winterfox's Homepage Send Winterfox a Private Message
quote:
(Apparently only miniatures and Magic are making any money for WotC).


Given their less-than-intelligent marketing at least where FR is concerned ("let's churn out everything fans don't want and alienate established fanbase and rape the canon repeatedly!"), does this come as any surprise?

Edited by - Winterfox on 03 Aug 2006 21:38:14
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  21:38:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
Who is Eric Noah? And why are they supposedly planning a new edition, if it won't make them any money?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1273 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  21:44:41  Show Profile Send Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Who is Eric Noah?



Eric Noah was made famous with his 1999-2002 3E "rumor/news" forum/website that was then moved to EnWorld.

Edited by - Skeptic on 03 Aug 2006 21:45:50
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  21:46:59  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Who is Eric Noah? And why are they supposedly planning a new edition, if it won't make them any money?



Eric started ENworld (See, it's even has his initials) about a year before 3e was officially released and his site, which he stepped down on, mostly, is still the major 3/3.5e site where game designers, etc, appear and discuss things.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  21:49:28  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Who is Eric Noah?



Eric Noah was made famous with his 1999-2002 3E "rumor/news" forum/website that was then moved to EnWorld.




I prefer to stay... Sceptic about this...

And I too ask why a 4 edition if the 3rd is not selling...

Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P

twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe

Canada
956 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  21:51:19  Show Profile  Visit Kalin Agrivar's Homepage Send Kalin Agrivar a Private Message
you make a 4th Ed. so the die-hard collectors and fan boys will buy the books so you can make more $$$

and if it will be more miniatures oriented rules will be needed to be changed and old books with new pictures will have to be published so they tie into the new "feel" of 4th ed.

I'v been saying for years all this extra crunch (Tome of Magic, Tome of Battle, Weapons of Legacy, Magic of Incarnum), the thousands of feats and PrCs and the stupid "Year of the Dragon" idea has all been to sell to munchkin players and not actually try to produce anything of real quality...

if they went to 4th Ed. that supports the "gotta catch thme all" miniatures and Magic cards only a couple of years after 3.5 then it's obvious they want to just make more $$$ and really don't care about the real, core fans...

Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar

- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand

Edited by - Kalin Agrivar on 03 Aug 2006 21:56:44
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1273 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  21:52:48  Show Profile Send Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
I prefer to stay... Sceptic about this...



Well, It's why I said "first serious rumor"

Skeptic who don't care about D&D anymore, because he's working on a FR Burning Wheel conversion

Edited by - Skeptic on 03 Aug 2006 21:54:15
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  21:57:49  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic

Well, It's why I said "first serious rumor"

Skeptic who don't care about D&D anymore, because he's working on a FR Burning Wheel conversion




Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P

twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  23:00:08  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message
If this is true and turns out for the worse, it confirms what I've said before about a large company owned by a toy conglomerate, thus with high overheads and demand for constant high profits, not being the right people to publish detailed information about a secondary world, in the context of a non-mainstream medium (RPGs), in the non-mainstream sourcebook format.

We have no metric for knowing what fans want, or how popular the current products are either in sales or in terms of how people like them.

EN World was named in honour of Eric Noah; he didn't start it.

Edited by - Faraer on 03 Aug 2006 23:01:03
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  23:02:29  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer

EN World was named in honour of Eric Noah; he didn't start it.



Actually he did before he allowed others to take over the site because he got to tired/exhausted running it.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  23:07:35  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message
He closed his D&D 3rd Edition News site, then someone else started EN World. Honest.
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  23:08:05  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer

He closed his D&D 3rd Edition News site, then someone else started EN World. Honest.



http://www.rpg.net/forums/phorum/pf/read.php?f=5&i=110438&t=110151&v=f

Author: Morrus (---.btinternet.com)
Date: 08-19-2001 03:51

The EN in EN World does indeed stand for 'Eric Noah', but it is/was an entirely separate site to his.

The origins of the name came about because, originally, the site was created by a few of his messageboard members, who wished to create a campaign world. The world had no name at this point, and so the web page, as it was, was temporarily termed "The EN World Creation Site" (referring to his messageboards). The name never got changed, and ended up being shortened to "The EN World Site" and the "EN World" over time.

The ENnies are organised by EN World. Eric acted as a partner this year, but they will continue next year and the year after that, still hosted by EN World.

Since Morrus still runs it, I think he knows what he's talking about. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium

Edited by - Kuje on 03 Aug 2006 23:09:44
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  23:11:21  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message
Which confirms what I said!
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2006 :  23:18:49  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer

Which confirms what I said!



Not exactly it doesn't since ENworld, as we've said, and you wanted to quibble over, is still named after Eric and, as we've said, it got morphed into the site that it is now, even though it was on his original site that he started, which was his unnofficial 3e Dungeons Dragons news site but the message boards were still called ENworld, since it's named after him.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium

Edited by - Kuje on 03 Aug 2006 23:38:29
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1098 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  00:47:15  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message
I came here to read about juicy 4E rumors, not a discussion about ENWorld and its origin. Back on topic please.

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  01:03:33  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage Send GothicDan a Private Message
Yay, 4E. *gag*

They'll tell us it's to streamline rules... When we all know it's to make more money.

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  01:11:43  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message
Much as this even makes my head throb to contemplate, I just wanted to point out that if its "in the works" it could indeed be a while before it comes out.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6641 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  01:22:40  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
The reason why a change to 4E would be a good business decision even though "games" aren't supposedly profitable at the moment, is that the biggest sellers for the D&D gameline are the PH, MM and DMG. Similarly, using the FR line as an example, a 4E FRCS would sell bucketloads more than a regional sourcebook on the Old Empires - no matter how many fans clamour for the latter. It will be interesting to see what changes 4E will usher into the Realms.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 04 Aug 2006 01:24:53
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  01:29:08  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

It will be interesting to see what changes 4E will usher into the Realms.
So long as they aren't mostly... unexplained.

Some of us have had enough of that already.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  03:44:59  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
It will be interesting to see what changes 4E will usher into the Realms.




*shudders a little in fear*

Yes, I'm not always progressive, I suppose. But I can't imagine a new edition making the Realms better or worse than it is now. Well, actually I'm also a bit of a cynic, and right now I'm inclined to think it would slide more towards the latter, based on some (ahem!) current trends.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  04:02:27  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message
The sad thing is that I really don't care much anymore. The 3ed thing never caught me and in general the realms-products of this edition has not been that satisfying to me, with a few exceptions of course. Cynical as I am, I cant see much hope of the realms back in a evolutionary track that appeals to me in a new edition either unless a miracle happens.

Anyway a rumour is a rumour, and if it is true the 4ed. is probably a few years away.
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  04:05:47  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message
Well 4th edition might indeed concentrate on minitures more, in being written that play requires minitures to get the "feel" of the game. With what they did with opening gaming they might have a hard time selling it.

3.X like prior editions with expansions has picked up bugs, some trying to fix bugs in core books).

All thinkgs considered a reduced design team, reduced play testing, I suspect a 4th Edition would be at least 4 years off.

Yes Hasbro does look for a constant stream of income, but they also appear unwilling to invest much in continuity or design testing.

What will occur will occur, nothing to worry about. With the web 3.X can be well supported for hundreds of years if 4th seems too bizarre.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1618 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  05:34:34  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message
I am thinking 4E would still be a few years away yet. As with 2E, By the time I get all of my 3E collection complete, it will be time to change. I will let you know when I am complete.
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  06:39:01  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message
I just made the change from 2nd edition to 3.5, suuuure I will change again...NOT

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore

USA
1283 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  06:49:56  Show Profile Send SirUrza a Private Message
The problem was letting people that didn't plan for 3.5 make 3.5. I sat in on a panel with Monte and he explained that they new from the start there would be a 3.5, however, the 3.5 would be a consolidation of the eratta and implementation of house rules that WORKED in the place of the published rules that weren't.

Basically taking the experiences and fixes they had with each D20 edition; Modern, Star Wars, etc. and plugging those fixes into D&D in the end.

Since none of the original design team for 3rd edition were around for 3.5, what we got was obviously very different. We got changed classes, changed spells, and a move more toward miniatures.

It's a shame too, because when the Complete series, I was feeling confident with no new reprint books on the schedule that Wizards was finally committing to a rules system for D&D.

I bet 4th Edition is being designed by someone that's been working for WOTC for less then a 2 years and will likely be around for 4th edition when it's published, but not long after that... kinda like 3 and 3.5.


"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy.

Edited by - SirUrza on 04 Aug 2006 06:52:40
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  10:03:13  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message
The problem, in general, is that the bulk of rule additions made the entire thing too cumbersome. Was the same with 2nd and 1st edition, 3.x streamlined a lot of rules, which in itself is an awesome thing then Peter Adkinson decided to sell Wizards to Hasbro. For him that was the best thing to do, otherwise he wouldn't have done it.
Unfortunately with Wizards in Hasbro hands the bottom-line financially became more important than the bottom line creatively, a thing that both TSR and Wizards still held high, although Wizards managed to do this quite better than TSR...
Profit margins are all that counts now, continuity managers positions were downsized and abandoned, and now we have pandemonium in places where once reason and planning ruled.
Make no mistake, the best the Realms were, at least from the direction/creative, point of view was still under the TSR banner, because of the gentleman-agreements and Jeff Grubb and Ed Greenwood on helm. Faux pas like a tree of souls instead of THE tree of souls would not have happened then.
Our best hope will probably be if D&D as a game-entity plus the rights to the worlds go to a company that is not in a stranglehold of a big-ass corp but still run by market-oriented and dedicated gamers!

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  10:15:16  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage Send GothicDan a Private Message
Wishful thinking, but good wishes, Mace. :)

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  10:25:27  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message
One can still hope, eh?

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  10:32:49  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage Send GothicDan a Private Message
Hope leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and you get the rest...

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2006 :  10:35:52  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message
Err...well, hate leads to more CoF listening in my book...lucky me I just bought I think all of their studio CDs :-)

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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