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Mariuss
Acolyte
10 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 18:21:07
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Has a sun elf ever claimed this blade? I have been thinking of bringing one into my campaign for a Sun elf wizard/rogue and using it as a legendary item per the unerth arcana rules.It has been very hard to find much information about them. I have searched all of the books I have and done lots of checks on the net and not getting allot of info.
Thanks
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 18:31:34
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I'm a little foggy on current rules/lore but the way I remember it is that any sun elf who ever touched a moonblade bit the dust. The swords were made for the more liberal and openminded of the elven people, the moon elves.
Give the wizard a regular blade NOT a moonblade... as for resources, read Evermeet by Elaine Cunningham. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 18:34:36
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You are asking about the past...
No. No Sun Elf has claimed a Moonblade. And according to traditional lore, they will never be able to because they are not Moonblades. Consider them subrace-specific (except when your DM wants to break that rule for a specific effect).
They have, however, claimed Elfblades (which are different things entirely). |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Mariuss
Acolyte
10 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 18:37:35
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| When I looked up elf blades I was only able to find 3 the rulers blade the artblade and the warrior blade.ARE there more blades then that? |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 18:38:46
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| Nope. That's all. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 18:44:13
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
You are asking about the past...
No. No Sun Elf has claimed a Moonblade. And according to traditional lore, they will never be able to because they are not Moonblades. Consider them subrace-specific (except when your DM wants to break that rule for a specific effect).
They have, however, claimed Elfblades (which are different things entirely).
wasn't the moonblades created in the Elven Court to choose the future Ruler of Evermeet and that there "rulership" blades given to sun, moon and maybe even green elf noble families? And that over time as the blades went dormant the majority of families holding "rulership" blades were moon elf noble familes, thus they were nicknamed "moonblades"?
it seemed to me that even most of the elves didn't know the purpose of the "rulership" blades as the more currupt and arrogant gold elf families (not all gold elves !!  )would not have allowed a moon elf to rule Evermeet and so (the elven gods allowed?) the "rulership" blades faded into memory until only becoming "lesser" moonblades? |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 18:55:00
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| According to Elaine Cunningham, who wrote of the creation of the Moonblades, no Sun Elves have claimed any of them. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 19:00:55
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
According to Elaine Cunningham, who wrote of the creation of the Moonblades, no Sun Elves have claimed any of them.
Thats cool...I haven't read Evermeet in a couple of years |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 20:17:11
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| Mind you, many Sun Elven families HAD Moonblades.. They just never were able to wield them properly. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 20:29:13
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Mind you, many Sun Elven families HAD Moonblades.. They just never were able to wield them properly.
Yep and the one and only Moonblade that was able to be wielded by a Sun Elf was corrupted by the power of Moander, the Starym Moonblade. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 20:59:56
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Mind you, many Sun Elven families HAD Moonblades.. They just never were able to wield them properly.
Wield them at all... those who tried after being warned just died, the families who still wanted to hold on to their claim bagged the blade and let it gather dust |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 21:00:50
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| Poor Sun Elves. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 21:05:21
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| The Seldarine knew what they were doing, Sun Elves were too racist and narrowminded. A wise elven king of Evermeet had to come from a different branch. Others tried as well, I think. Some wild/wood elves also got fried, making it pretty damn clear that the MOONblades were for MOON elves. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 21:08:28
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Mind you, many Sun Elven families HAD Moonblades.. They just never were able to wield them properly.
Yep and the one and only Moonblade that was able to be wielded by a Sun Elf was corrupted by the power of Moander, the Starym Moonblade.
Cormanthyr says that Illitran Starym was a moon elf. Page 117. The clan was a mix of moon and sun elves. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 11 Jul 2006 22:52:14 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 21:31:37
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quote:
The Seldarine knew what they were doing, Sun Elves were too racist and narrowminded.
Do we really need to get Elaine in here again explaining that the events in Evermeet were only in part truth, that they were biased towards Moon Elves specifically, and that people don't take into account the equally common Sun Elven heroes and Moon Elven villains? I've seen her express this opinion in at least two exhaustive replies.
Elitism is not always a bad thing. It was in a few cases, yes, but not always.
We really have never gotten a complete answer as to why Moon Elves could ONLY wield Moonblades. That'd be something interesting to hear from Elaine, some time, actually. Maybe we DO need to get her in here... If we ask politely. ;) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 11 Jul 2006 21:34:39 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 22:17:30
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Elaine has stated she no longer desires to comment on moonblades at all, this might change however I would not expect a change of mind soon (if ever).
The blades and shared universe at times distress individual contributors. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 22:19:48
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| With good reason. From what I've seen, Elaine has tried very hard to acknowledge this fact in her works, and to weave in lore both new and old, and I would personally find it distressing if other authors didn't do the same, especially when it pertained to my material. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 11 Jul 2006 22:20:33 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 22:45:47
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
We really have never gotten a complete answer as to why Moon Elves could ONLY wield Moonblades. That'd be something interesting to hear from Elaine, some time, actually. Maybe we DO need to get her in here... If we ask politely. ;)
I seem to recall getting such an explanation: because moon elves are more willing to be a part of the world and interact with other races. Gold elves have a habit of being more isolationist. And with a changing world and the rise of more prolific races, you'd need leadership that was willing to adapt and deal with the rest of the world, not turn away from it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 23:24:15
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| That's a valid point, but I think there may be something more intrinsic to the subraces than that, considering we've seen some Gold Elves who ARE very willing to adapt to the changing environment (Eltargrim), and even THEY couldn't wield Moonblades. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
That's a valid point, but I think there may be something more intrinsic to the subraces than that, considering we've seen some Gold Elves who ARE very willing to adapt to the changing environment (Eltargrim), and even THEY couldn't wield Moonblades.
What we've seen are individual tendencies, that stand out from the racial norm. Moon elves, on the other hand, are more adaptable as a racial norm. Since the blades were given to families to see which could hold the most blades at some point down the road, it makes sense to target a race that's known for the qualities you seek. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 12 Jul 2006 00:08:04 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:07:33
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Oh, yes. But I'm saying, even individual Sun Elves would not have been able to wield Moonblades, according to Elaine, even if they shared the same tendencies as a Moon Elf.
I'm not trying to be argumentative or pugnacious, I am just curious. Curious enough to wish I could see a whole short story about it.. But that'll never happen, sadly. :( |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Oh, yes. But I'm saying, even individual Sun Elves would not have been able to wield Moonblades, according to Elaine, even if they shared the same tendencies as a Moon Elf.
I'm not trying to be argumentative or pugnacious, I am just curious. Curious enough to wish I could see a whole short story about it.. But that'll never happen, sadly. :(
The blades were to test families, not individuals. Sure, the drawer is the one that's tested, but it's to test the suitability of his entire family. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:16:50
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A valid point. However, we didn't hear of any unsuitable members of the Irithyl family, and Elaine pointed out herself that there are quite a number of evil/unsuitable moon elven individuals, too. Elaith, for one, was obviously a "not good" member of his family, yet the Moonblade chose his ancestors, and may choose his daughter.
I'm just pointing out, basically, that there's somewhat more of an enigma to the Moonblades than I think we've seen so far. It's fun to speculate on. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:20:14
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As a lover of all the elven races, I actually find it rather sad that wood elves got overlooked so often (and there weren't many of them in the Evermeet novel, which disappointed me).
That being said...Mariuss, give the sun elf in question a great item, but I wouldn't make it a moonblade. Heck, make up your own item, if you want--no law against that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:26:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
As a lover of all the elven races, I actually find it rather sad that wood elves got overlooked so often (and there weren't many of them in the Evermeet novel, which disappointed me).
It's even worse now that WOTC split them into two seperate subraces. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:27:33
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A vote with the idea of giving him his own unique item. Perhaps an ancestral wizard staff of his family that dates back to the Second Crown War? :)
And I kind of like Wood Elves, too. In a more primal, they're-feral-and-hot kind of way. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:50:37
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Elaine says that she will "clean up" the matter of moonblade lore in her upcoming "Best of EC" novel.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:50:47
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
A vote with the idea of giving him his own unique item. Perhaps an ancestral wizard staff of his family that dates back to the Second Crown War? :)
If I was playing the character to receive such an item, I'd be more than thrilled. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:51:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
As a lover of all the elven races, I actually find it rather sad that wood elves got overlooked so often (and there weren't many of them in the Evermeet novel, which disappointed me).
It's even worse now that WOTC split them into two seperate subraces. :)
I have to admit...I don't mind the change too much. However, you can probably make the case that there didn't need to be a split, since wood elves and wild elves don't seem THAT different from each other (in my experience anyway). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:59:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
As a lover of all the elven races, I actually find it rather sad that wood elves got overlooked so often (and there weren't many of them in the Evermeet novel, which disappointed me).
It's even worse now that WOTC split them into two seperate subraces. :)
I have to admit...I don't mind the change too much. However, you can probably make the case that there didn't need to be a split, since wood elves and wild elves don't seem THAT different from each other (in my experience anyway).
My experience as well and it was a surprise to me when they did that in 3e. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 12 Jul 2006 01:13:19 |
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Mariuss
Acolyte
10 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 01:01:20
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I really apreciate all the replys and the quickness i got them I agree with you I should just make my own item from scratch. Moonblades do sound like a fun item to use but in this situation it may just be easier to make my own artifact.
Agai thanks it is the first time I used this forum and I am glad I found it. |
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Moonblade/Elfblades
