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Mariuss
Acolyte

10 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  18:21:07  Show Profile  Visit Mariuss's Homepage Send Mariuss a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Has a sun elf ever claimed this blade? I have been thinking of bringing one into my campaign for a Sun elf wizard/rogue and using it as a legendary item per the unerth arcana rules.It has been very hard to find much information about them. I have searched all of the books I have and done lots of checks on the net and not getting allot of info.


Thanks

Mace Hammerhand
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Germany
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Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  18:31:34  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm a little foggy on current rules/lore but the way I remember it is that any sun elf who ever touched a moonblade bit the dust. The swords were made for the more liberal and openminded of the elven people, the moon elves.

Give the wizard a regular blade NOT a moonblade... as for resources, read Evermeet by Elaine Cunningham.

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  18:34:36  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You are asking about the past...

No. No Sun Elf has claimed a Moonblade. And according to traditional lore, they will never be able to because they are not Moonblades. Consider them subrace-specific (except when your DM wants to break that rule for a specific effect).

They have, however, claimed Elfblades (which are different things entirely).

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Mariuss
Acolyte

10 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  18:37:35  Show Profile  Visit Mariuss's Homepage Send Mariuss a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When I looked up elf blades I was only able to find 3 the rulers blade the artblade and the warrior blade.ARE there more blades then that?
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  18:38:46  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nope. That's all.

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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe

Canada
956 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  18:44:13  Show Profile  Visit Kalin Agrivar's Homepage  Click to see Kalin Agrivar's MSN Messenger address Send Kalin Agrivar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan

You are asking about the past...

No. No Sun Elf has claimed a Moonblade. And according to traditional lore, they will never be able to because they are not Moonblades. Consider them subrace-specific (except when your DM wants to break that rule for a specific effect).

They have, however, claimed Elfblades (which are different things entirely).



wasn't the moonblades created in the Elven Court to choose the future Ruler of Evermeet and that there "rulership" blades given to sun, moon and maybe even green elf noble families? And that over time as the blades went dormant the majority of families holding "rulership" blades were moon elf noble familes, thus they were nicknamed "moonblades"?

it seemed to me that even most of the elves didn't know the purpose of the "rulership" blades as the more currupt and arrogant gold elf families (not all gold elves !! )would not have allowed a moon elf to rule Evermeet and so (the elven gods allowed?) the "rulership" blades faded into memory until only becoming "lesser" moonblades?

Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar

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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  18:55:00  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
According to Elaine Cunningham, who wrote of the creation of the Moonblades, no Sun Elves have claimed any of them.

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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe

Canada
956 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  19:00:55  Show Profile  Visit Kalin Agrivar's Homepage  Click to see Kalin Agrivar's MSN Messenger address Send Kalin Agrivar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan

According to Elaine Cunningham, who wrote of the creation of the Moonblades, no Sun Elves have claimed any of them.



Thats cool...I haven't read Evermeet in a couple of years

Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar

- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  20:17:11  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mind you, many Sun Elven families HAD Moonblades.. They just never were able to wield them properly.

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore

USA
1695 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  20:29:13  Show Profile  Visit warlockco's Homepage Send warlockco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan

Mind you, many Sun Elven families HAD Moonblades.. They just never were able to wield them properly.



Yep and the one and only Moonblade that was able to be wielded by a Sun Elf was corrupted by the power of Moander, the Starym Moonblade.
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  20:59:56  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan

Mind you, many Sun Elven families HAD Moonblades.. They just never were able to wield them properly.



Wield them at all... those who tried after being warned just died, the families who still wanted to hold on to their claim bagged the blade and let it gather dust

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  21:00:50  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Poor Sun Elves.

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  21:05:21  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Seldarine knew what they were doing, Sun Elves were too racist and narrowminded. A wise elven king of Evermeet had to come from a different branch. Others tried as well, I think. Some wild/wood elves also got fried, making it pretty damn clear that the MOONblades were for MOON elves.

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30338 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  21:08:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco

quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan

Mind you, many Sun Elven families HAD Moonblades.. They just never were able to wield them properly.



Yep and the one and only Moonblade that was able to be wielded by a Sun Elf was corrupted by the power of Moander, the Starym Moonblade.



Cormanthyr says that Illitran Starym was a moon elf. Page 117. The clan was a mix of moon and sun elves.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 11 Jul 2006 22:52:14
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  21:31:37  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
The Seldarine knew what they were doing, Sun Elves were too racist and narrowminded.


Do we really need to get Elaine in here again explaining that the events in Evermeet were only in part truth, that they were biased towards Moon Elves specifically, and that people don't take into account the equally common Sun Elven heroes and Moon Elven villains? I've seen her express this opinion in at least two exhaustive replies.

Elitism is not always a bad thing. It was in a few cases, yes, but not always.

We really have never gotten a complete answer as to why Moon Elves could ONLY wield Moonblades. That'd be something interesting to hear from Elaine, some time, actually. Maybe we DO need to get her in here... If we ask politely. ;)

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD

Edited by - GothicDan on 11 Jul 2006 21:34:39
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4304 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  22:17:30  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elaine has stated she no longer desires to comment on moonblades at all, this might change however I would not expect a change of mind soon (if ever).

The blades and shared universe at times distress individual contributors.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  22:19:48  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With good reason. From what I've seen, Elaine has tried very hard to acknowledge this fact in her works, and to weave in lore both new and old, and I would personally find it distressing if other authors didn't do the same, especially when it pertained to my material.

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD

Edited by - GothicDan on 11 Jul 2006 22:20:33
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30338 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  22:45:47  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan



We really have never gotten a complete answer as to why Moon Elves could ONLY wield Moonblades. That'd be something interesting to hear from Elaine, some time, actually. Maybe we DO need to get her in here... If we ask politely. ;)



I seem to recall getting such an explanation: because moon elves are more willing to be a part of the world and interact with other races. Gold elves have a habit of being more isolationist. And with a changing world and the rise of more prolific races, you'd need leadership that was willing to adapt and deal with the rest of the world, not turn away from it.

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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2006 :  23:24:15  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's a valid point, but I think there may be something more intrinsic to the subraces than that, considering we've seen some Gold Elves who ARE very willing to adapt to the changing environment (Eltargrim), and even THEY couldn't wield Moonblades.

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
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Posted - 12 Jul 2006 :  00:06:12  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan

That's a valid point, but I think there may be something more intrinsic to the subraces than that, considering we've seen some Gold Elves who ARE very willing to adapt to the changing environment (Eltargrim), and even THEY couldn't wield Moonblades.



What we've seen are individual tendencies, that stand out from the racial norm. Moon elves, on the other hand, are more adaptable as a racial norm. Since the blades were given to families to see which could hold the most blades at some point down the road, it makes sense to target a race that's known for the qualities you seek.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 12 Jul 2006 00:08:04
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2006 :  00:07:33  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, yes. But I'm saying, even individual Sun Elves would not have been able to wield Moonblades, according to Elaine, even if they shared the same tendencies as a Moon Elf.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or pugnacious, I am just curious. Curious enough to wish I could see a whole short story about it.. But that'll never happen, sadly. :(

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 12 Jul 2006 :  00:09:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan

Oh, yes. But I'm saying, even individual Sun Elves would not have been able to wield Moonblades, according to Elaine, even if they shared the same tendencies as a Moon Elf.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or pugnacious, I am just curious. Curious enough to wish I could see a whole short story about it.. But that'll never happen, sadly. :(



The blades were to test families, not individuals. Sure, the drawer is the one that's tested, but it's to test the suitability of his entire family.

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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2006 :  00:16:50  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A valid point. However, we didn't hear of any unsuitable members of the Irithyl family, and Elaine pointed out herself that there are quite a number of evil/unsuitable moon elven individuals, too. Elaith, for one, was obviously a "not good" member of his family, yet the Moonblade chose his ancestors, and may choose his daughter.

I'm just pointing out, basically, that there's somewhat more of an enigma to the Moonblades than I think we've seen so far. It's fun to speculate on.

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2006 :  00:20:14  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As a lover of all the elven races, I actually find it rather sad that wood elves got overlooked so often (and there weren't many of them in the Evermeet novel, which disappointed me).

That being said...Mariuss, give the sun elf in question a great item, but I wouldn't make it a moonblade. Heck, make up your own item, if you want--no law against that.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
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Kuje
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USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2006 :  00:26:52  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

As a lover of all the elven races, I actually find it rather sad that wood elves got overlooked so often (and there weren't many of them in the Evermeet novel, which disappointed me).


It's even worse now that WOTC split them into two seperate subraces. :)

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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2006 :  00:27:33  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A vote with the idea of giving him his own unique item. Perhaps an ancestral wizard staff of his family that dates back to the Second Crown War? :)

And I kind of like Wood Elves, too. In a more primal, they're-feral-and-hot kind of way.

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD
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