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Targon Moonrise
Learned Scribe

163 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2003 :  05:20:10  Show Profile  Visit Targon Moonrise's Homepage  Click to see Targon Moonrise's MSN Messenger address Send Targon Moonrise a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I was just wondering, during the ToT, were the elven/dwarf/etc. gods sent to the realms or just the human gods?

May Melkor smile upon every spell you cast.

Yasraena
Senior Scribe

USA
388 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2003 :  05:38:48  Show Profile  Visit Yasraena's Homepage Send Yasraena a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's been a few years since I read the Avatar Trilogy, so correct me if I'm wrong out there, but I beleive that all the gods were sent to the Realms in mortal form. It's just that the books focused only on a select bunch.

"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2003 :  05:54:16  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm told (it's somewhere here, I'm just too tired to look) that it was every deity for that world. Even Maztica and Kara-Tur. The trilogy really only delt with human deities, but it was all.

I only know what one of the nonhuman ones did, though -- Gond. He was so grateful to his followers for having taken care of him that he taught them the secret of smokepowder.

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more.
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Targon Moonrise
Learned Scribe

163 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2003 :  05:55:04  Show Profile  Visit Targon Moonrise's Homepage  Click to see Targon Moonrise's MSN Messenger address Send Targon Moonrise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just finished "Tantras" the second book about an hour ag. You are correct. Nevermind, I just remembered. Lloth appeared in Menzoberrenzan during the ToT so yea, even the elven gods were sent down.

May Melkor smile upon every spell you cast.
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zemd
Master of Realmslore

France
1103 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2003 :  14:52:33  Show Profile Send zemd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just finished Tantras too! I'm beginnig Waterdeep.
And you are true they all were sent on Toril. And do you know where we could know where they were all? I've go a list of the location of the main deities, but i'd like more
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MidNight
Seeker

Netherlands
43 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2003 :  19:59:38  Show Profile  Visit MidNight's Homepage Send MidNight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is a very good question, to my opinion. I also think all the Gods were send to the Realms, for that's the most logical move for Ao, I think. But is it mentioned somewhere, I wonder? I think it would be very interesting to see what that would mean for the various Godhoods and the relations between them etc. And to think of it that it were human Gods that stole the tablets and therefore were send to the Realms. Ao knew this. What kind of effects would that have on the other Gods? I figure that they didn't like it much (understatemently speaking )

Especially for zemd

Faerunian Powers
Power
Location

Akadi
Not seen in the Realms (F&A) (see Note 1)

Ao
Elminster's Safehold, Mt. Waterdeep (Cloak of Shadows, Waterdeep)

Auril
Unknown (see Note 2)

Azuth
Pool of Yeven (FRE2)

Bane
Zhentil Keep, Castle Kilgrave, Shadowdale, Scardale, Tantras (FRE1,2; Av. Tril.)

Beshaba
Unknown

Bhaal
Eveningstar, High Horn, Boareskyr Bridge (FRE2, Av. Tril.)

Chauntea
Unknown

Cyric
Not yet a god. Arabel to Shadowdale to Tantras to Waterdeep (Av. Tril.)

Deneir
Unknown

Eldath
The Misty Forest (Cloak of Shadows)

Gond
Lantan (FRA, F&A)

Grumbar
Not seen in the Realms (F&A) (see Note 1)

Helm
Guarded the Outer Planes (Av. Tril.)

Ibrandul
Underdark below Waterdeep (F&A)

Ilmater
Unknown (See Note 2)

Istishia
Not seen in the Realms (F&A) (see Note 1)

Iyachtu Xvim
Trapped below Zhentil Keep (Ruins of Zhentil Keep, F&A)

Kelemvor
Not yet a god. Arabel to Shadowdale to Tantras to Waterdeep (Av. Tril.)

Kossuth
Not seen in the Realms (F&A) (see Note 1)

Lathander
Unknown

Leira
Unknown (see Note 2)

Lliira
Shadowdale, Cormanthor (F&A (under Waukeen))

Loviatar
Unknown (see Note 2)

Malar
Gulthmere Forest, the North (F&A, P&P(under Nobanion))

Mask
Disguised as Godsbane, Cyric's sword; Cormyr to Waterdeep (Prince of Lies)

Mielikki
The Misty Forest (Cloak of Shadows)

Milil
Athkatla (F&A)

Moander
Never specifically revealed, but presumably the Lost Vale (Song of the Saurials) (see Note 3)

Myrkul
Waterdeep (FRE3)

Mystra
Castle Kilgrave (FRE1)

Oghma
Unknown

Selune
Waterdeep (FR Comic)

Shar
Calimport, Underdark under Waterdeep, Waterdeep (P&P (under Sharess), F&A, FR Comic)

Shaundakul
Myth Drannor (F&A)

Silvanus
Winterwood and Chondalwood (F&A)

Sune
Calimport, Teziir (P&P (under Sharess), Waterdeep)

Talona
Castle Trinity (Canticle)

Talos
Tsurlagol (Waterdeep)

Tempus
Battledale, Mistledale (F&A, All Shadows Fled)

Torm
Tantras (FRE2)

Tymora
Arabel (Shadowdale)

Tyr
Unknown

Umberlee
Sea of Fallen Stars (FRA), Trackless Sea near the Purple Rocks (C&D)

Waukeen
Shadowdale, Cormanthor, Astral Plane, the Abyss (F&A)


Faerunian Demipowers
Power
Location

Finder Wyvernspur
Imprisoned in Shadowdale (Song of the Saurials) (see Note 3)

Garagos
Westgate Harbor, Sea of Fallen Stars (C&D web supplement)

Gargauth
Unknown

Gwaeron Windstrom
the North (P&P)

Hoar
Akanax, Thay, Unther (P&P, Cloak of Shadows)

Jergal
Unknown ("Played no part in the Time of Troubles" P&P)

Lurue
Unknown

Nobanion
Gulthmere Forest, Shining Plains (P&P)

Red Knight
Northeastern Tethyr (P&P)

Savras
Imprisoned in the Scepter of Savras (P&P)

Sharess
Calimport (P&P)

Shiallia
the North (P&P)

Siamorphe
Waterdeep (P&P)

Ulutiu
Asleep under the Great Glacier (FR14, P&P)

Uthgar
Unknown

Valkur
Unknown

Velsharoon
Unknown. Not yet a god (P&P)


Chultan Powers
Power
Location

Eshowdow
Unknown

Sseth
Black Jungles, Chult (P&P)

Ubtao
Chult (P&P)


Mulhorandi Powers
Power
Location

Anhur
Mulhorand, Alamber Sea (P&P)

Geb
Ship of the Gods (P&P)

Hathor
Unknown

Horus-Re
Unknown, but likely in Skuld as Pharaoh Horusep III (implied in P&P)

Isis
Unknown

Nephthys
Unknown

Osiris
Unknown

Sebek
Unknown

Set
Unknown

Thoth
Unknown


Untheric Powers
Power
Location

Gilgeam
Unthalass (P&P)

Ramman
Unther (P&P (under Hoar))

Tiamat
Unther, Unthalass (P&P)


Demihuman Powers
Most demihuman avatars locations are unknown, as they have been ignored in the core ToT products, only those powers with known locations are listed.
There is plenty of room for speculation here.

Power
Location

Lolth
Menzoberranzan (Seige of Darkness)

Selvertarm
Eryndlyn (Underdark below the High Moor) (DD)

Clangeddin Silverbeard
Rauthym (FR Comic)

Deep Duerra
Underspires, Southern Underdark (DD)

Labelas Enoreth
Rauthym (FR Comic)

Segojan Earthcaller
Hardbuckler (DD)

Urdlen
Hardbuckler (DD)



Monstrous Powers
The same applies to the monstrous powers as with the demihuman powers, only those known are listed.

Power
Location

Sekolah
Alamber Sea (P&P (under Anhur))

Ilsensine
Oryndoll (Underdark under the Shining Plains) (Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark)



While the demihuman powers have been only lightly covered, the dozens of monstrous deities have been truly passed over. While in some cases this is understandable, surely the draconic and giant avatars should have been VERY noticeable! There's even more room for speculation than with the demihumans.

Notes
1. The elemental powers (Akadi, Grumbar, Ishtishia, and Kossuth) weren't seen in the Realms according to F&A. In the first three cases, it may just be that they weren't noticed, being basically invisible in their elements (an avatar made of water would be unnoticeable in a large ocean after all). Unfortunately, Kossuth messes this theory up, as a huge flame would be rather noticeable.

2. Four powers had locations listed in the current list on the "Best" web page that are incorrect. Auril's avatar isn't mentioned in FR14, Ilmater is mentioned on page 23 of FR9, but only as one of the gods revered in Damara, not as an avatar, and neither Leira's or Loviatar's locations are mentioned in FRA. I think I checked pretty thoroughly, but if anyone does discover if these are correct references, don't hesitate to mention it.

3. Although Finder's and Moander's locations during the Time of Troubles have never been specifically revealed, much information can be gleaned from Song of the Saurials, which takes place immediately after the ToT. The Godswar ended on 15 Marpenoth 1359 DR, and Song of Saurials takes place during 18 - 21 Marpenoth (the date of Finder's destruction of Moander is given in P&P as 20 Marpenoth) - presumably the start of Finder's trial had been delayed due to the chaos of the ToT and was begun as soon as possible after its end. From the novel, it is obvious that Finder had been imprisoned in the Twisted Tower for quite some time, presumably including the entire ToT. Although it is never specifically stated in the novel that Moander's avatar had been in the Lost Vale, it certainly would be the logical conclusion. However, the fact that the saurials were being forced to create huge pile of rotting vegetation to be the avatar's host makes it appear that Moander's avatar during the ToT must have been quite weak; a result, presumably, of the disastrous events in Azure Bonds.



Love magic for itself. Do not treat it just as a weapon to reshape the world to your will. True wisdom is knowing when not to use magic. Strive to use magic less as your powers develop, for often the threat or promise of its use outstrips is actual performance. Magic is an Art, the Gift of the Lady, and those who wield it are privileged it the extreme. Conduct yourself humbly, not proudly, while being mindful of this. Use the Art deftly and efficiently, not carelessly and recklessly. Seek always to learn and create new magic.
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zemd
Master of Realmslore

France
1103 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2003 :  20:39:46  Show Profile Send zemd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you, where did you find this?
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MidNight
Seeker

Netherlands
43 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2003 :  21:02:48  Show Profile  Visit MidNight's Homepage Send MidNight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope it's not a crime here in the library to show books to the scribes that are not from the library here in Candlekeep. It found it somewhere else. MidNight searches through her pockets and eventually ends up with a large book in her hands. Here, look at this:http://www.masterao.com/articles/articles.asp

Love magic for itself. Do not treat it just as a weapon to reshape the world to your will. True wisdom is knowing when not to use magic. Strive to use magic less as your powers develop, for often the threat or promise of its use outstrips is actual performance. Magic is an Art, the Gift of the Lady, and those who wield it are privileged it the extreme. Conduct yourself humbly, not proudly, while being mindful of this. Use the Art deftly and efficiently, not carelessly and recklessly. Seek always to learn and create new magic.

Edited by - MidNight on 22 Mar 2003 21:03:47
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zemd
Master of Realmslore

France
1103 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2003 :  21:35:04  Show Profile Send zemd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No, it's not a crime. We are very open minded (aren't we Alaundo?)
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5616 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2003 :  09:36:19  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage  Click to see Alaundo's MSN Messenger address Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well Met

quote:
Originally posted by zemd

No, it's not a crime. We are very open minded (aren't we Alaundo?)



Indeed we are zemd, a book is a book and any Realmslore knowledge is more than welcome in Candlekeep......I just hope that MasterAO doesnt charge much for the use of one of his tomes

Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct


An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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lowtech
Learned Scribe

USA
315 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2003 :  15:43:34  Show Profile  Visit lowtech's Homepage Send lowtech a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm

I'm told (it's somewhere here, I'm just too tired to look) that it was every deity for that world. Even Maztica and Kara-Tur. The trilogy really only delt with human deities, but it was all.

I only know what one of the nonhuman ones did, though -- Gond. He was so grateful to his followers for having taken care of him that he taught them the secret of smokepowder.



Gond is actually a human god, but he assumed the name of a Gnomish god from outside Toril, and is now part of both pantheons.
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2018 :  19:36:51  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Everyone,

I was reading this, and it seemed pretty tight until I realized....something stuck out to me. Though the gods were kicked out of the Heavens, what about the Primordials? I thought the idea was that the Primordials would come too. If that is the case, then Dendar the Night Serpent would have ended the world upon his return since Ubtao would no longer have been able to protect the Peaks of Flame from his return.

Is this an oversight, or do you all think, or have some reference that the Primordials were exempted from this beat down that Lord Ao handed out? I ask, because it is not evident that the primordials, though they were there from the beginning and predate Ao's creating Realmspace from the Phlogiston, were superior to Ao. In fact, during the Dawn Wars, Ao dealt with Asgaroth the World Shaper by sundering Abeir-Toril, and "granting" Asgaroth, Abeir. Granting something, is different than acquiescing or capitulating of course.

So, what do you all think? Just jumping in about fifteen years late here.

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by Targon Moonrise

I was just wondering, during the ToT, were the elven/dwarf/etc. gods sent to the realms or just the human gods?


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33191 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2018 :  03:34:52  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Hey Everyone,

I was reading this, and it seemed pretty tight until I realized....something stuck out to me. Though the gods were kicked out of the Heavens, what about the Primordials? I thought the idea was that the Primordials would come too. If that is the case, then Dendar the Night Serpent would have ended the world upon his return since Ubtao would no longer have been able to protect the Peaks of Flame from his return.

Is this an oversight, or do you all think, or have some reference that the Primordials were exempted from this beat down that Lord Ao handed out? I ask, because it is not evident that the primordials, though they were there from the beginning and predate Ao's creating Realmspace from the Phlogiston, were superior to Ao. In fact, during the Dawn Wars, Ao dealt with Asgaroth the World Shaper by sundering Abeir-Toril, and "granting" Asgaroth, Abeir. Granting something, is different than acquiescing or capitulating of course.

So, what do you all think? Just jumping in about fifteen years late here.

Best regards,



Primordials were not a part of the Realms when the Time of Troubles happened -- primordials were a much later retcon, and because they were retconning things and didn't care about maintaining prior continuity, the issue of what happened to the primordials in the ToT was blithely ignored.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7006 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2018 :  04:17:20  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
4E introduced the notion of Primordials. Along with the notion that (at least prior to 4E) the Primordials were completely isolated with Abeir, entirely unable to interact with Toril.

It seems to me that the events which led to the Avatar Crisis would not have occurred on Abeir because, apparently, the Primordials don't have any faithful or any interest in maintaining/gaining faithful so there would be no need for Ao to start imposing new (circa 2E) rules about how the Primordials and their faithful would be more closely linked together through a mutual symbiosis of faith. Primordial basically have much the same arrangement as the deities of Toril had Pre-ToT (circa 1E) ... except that it never changed. If there was never any transition then there was never any time of transition (and troubles).

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 25 Sep 2018 04:21:57
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2018 :  21:02:50  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

Ah, of course! Thank you kindly for setting me straight on that. I didn't consider referencing the dates of publishing. What a frustrating point though when thinking of the absolute amazing nature of the Forgotten Realms, to see such careless disregard for the continuity of the timeline.

Ehhh...well, more than enough frustration has been made over the years regarding that situation, so I will not carry on, needlessly.

Thank you kindly again.

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Hey Everyone,

I was reading this, and it seemed pretty tight until I realized....something stuck out to me. Though the gods were kicked out of the Heavens, what about the Primordials? I thought the idea was that the Primordials would come too. If that is the case, then Dendar the Night Serpent would have ended the world upon his return since Ubtao would no longer have been able to protect the Peaks of Flame from his return.

Is this an oversight, or do you all think, or have some reference that the Primordials were exempted from this beat down that Lord Ao handed out? I ask, because it is not evident that the primordials, though they were there from the beginning and predate Ao's creating Realmspace from the Phlogiston, were superior to Ao. In fact, during the Dawn Wars, Ao dealt with Asgaroth the World Shaper by sundering Abeir-Toril, and "granting" Asgaroth, Abeir. Granting something, is different than acquiescing or capitulating of course.

So, what do you all think? Just jumping in about fifteen years late here.

Best regards,



Primordials were not a part of the Realms when the Time of Troubles happened -- primordials were a much later retcon, and because they were retconning things and didn't care about maintaining prior continuity, the issue of what happened to the primordials in the ToT was blithely ignored.


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2018 :  21:04:31  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Ayrik,

Thank you for making that point. At times, I do in fact neglect to recall the publishing dates as it pertains to keeping the Realms history straight. I am glad to be covering these issues as reminders before I release my podcast in the near future.

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

4E introduced the notion of Primordials. Along with the notion that (at least prior to 4E) the Primordials were completely isolated with Abeir, entirely unable to interact with Toril.

It seems to me that the events which led to the Avatar Crisis would not have occurred on Abeir because, apparently, the Primordials don't have any faithful or any interest in maintaining/gaining faithful so there would be no need for Ao to start imposing new (circa 2E) rules about how the Primordials and their faithful would be more closely linked together through a mutual symbiosis of faith. Primordial basically have much the same arrangement as the deities of Toril had Pre-ToT (circa 1E) ... except that it never changed. If there was never any transition then there was never any time of transition (and troubles).


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8683 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  13:50:18  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Hey Everyone,

I was reading this, and it seemed pretty tight until I realized....something stuck out to me. Though the gods were kicked out of the Heavens, what about the Primordials? I thought the idea was that the Primordials would come too. If that is the case, then Dendar the Night Serpent would have ended the world upon his return since Ubtao would no longer have been able to protect the Peaks of Flame from his return.

Is this an oversight, or do you all think, or have some reference that the Primordials were exempted from this beat down that Lord Ao handed out? I ask, because it is not evident that the primordials, though they were there from the beginning and predate Ao's creating Realmspace from the Phlogiston, were superior to Ao. In fact, during the Dawn Wars, Ao dealt with Asgaroth the World Shaper by sundering Abeir-Toril, and "granting" Asgaroth, Abeir. Granting something, is different than acquiescing or capitulating of course.

So, what do you all think? Just jumping in about fifteen years late here.

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by Targon Moonrise

I was just wondering, during the ToT, were the elven/dwarf/etc. gods sent to the realms or just the human gods?





Ubtao IS a primordial according to 4e lore. He grants spells like a god, but 4e rules also covers this concept in one of their later books with a simple blurb basically giving that primordials can grant divine spells.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  12:12:51  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader sleyvas,

I certainly do need to get read up on 4e lore. I have to admit that my frustration with that edition led me to not even approach it, and thus, my knowledge about 4e is very limited. Lore is lore though, and I will end up digesting it, but it will be like a sad liver dinner for me....and I don't like liver for dinner.

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Hey Everyone,

I was reading this, and it seemed pretty tight until I realized....something stuck out to me. Though the gods were kicked out of the Heavens, what about the Primordials? I thought the idea was that the Primordials would come too. If that is the case, then Dendar the Night Serpent would have ended the world upon his return since Ubtao would no longer have been able to protect the Peaks of Flame from his return.

Is this an oversight, or do you all think, or have some reference that the Primordials were exempted from this beat down that Lord Ao handed out? I ask, because it is not evident that the primordials, though they were there from the beginning and predate Ao's creating Realmspace from the Phlogiston, were superior to Ao. In fact, during the Dawn Wars, Ao dealt with Asgaroth the World Shaper by sundering Abeir-Toril, and "granting" Asgaroth, Abeir. Granting something, is different than acquiescing or capitulating of course.

So, what do you all think? Just jumping in about fifteen years late here.

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by Targon Moonrise

I was just wondering, during the ToT, were the elven/dwarf/etc. gods sent to the realms or just the human gods?





Ubtao IS a primordial according to 4e lore. He grants spells like a god, but 4e rules also covers this concept in one of their later books with a simple blurb basically giving that primordials can grant divine spells.


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2148 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  18:44:13  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You're almost better off ignoring it. Since 5th Ed seems to have been written to undo most of the changes 4th ed made.
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  20:32:31  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Mage,

haha...you know, that sounds like damn fine advice. I only am going to read it so that I can have as full of an understanding of what happened as possible. Especially since there is so much confusion surrounding that time, I hope to be useful as people might have questions that come in later. You know...during 6th, 7th...28th edition D&D.

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

You're almost better off ignoring it. Since 5th Ed seems to have been written to undo most of the changes 4th ed made.


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8683 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  23:38:37  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was against 4e as well, but then I began peeling back the onion. There's some gems in there. There's also a lot of crap. But the gems are worth looking at. In the areas that weren't specifically Realmsian as well, I feel they improved things like Faerie, etc...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2018 :  00:08:02  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader sleyvas,

I'm glad you mentioned that. I get the frustration at the onset: I was absolutely irate, the entire time, actually. However, when I decided to jump into this further than I ever have before, I figured I should bit the apple and taste it.....which at this point, 4e, is really the only stuff I have not read.

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I was against 4e as well, but then I began peeling back the onion. There's some gems in there. There's also a lot of crap. But the gems are worth looking at. In the areas that weren't specifically Realmsian as well, I feel they improved things like Faerie, etc...


Robert McDonell
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cpthero2
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Posted - 08 Feb 2020 :  07:38:39  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader sleyvas and The Masked Mage,

Revitalizing this a bit: do you think it is best to read the accessories, etc. to get what they did for anything relevant that was kept, but definitely skip the novels?

Best regards,


Robert McDonell
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 08 Feb 2020 :  15:49:03  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader sleyvas and The Masked Mage,

Revitalizing this a bit: do you think it is best to read the accessories, etc. to get what they did for anything relevant that was kept, but definitely skip the novels?

Best regards,





Oh ye dancing gods, no, do not skip the novels! While there are particular novels I refrain from recommending, overall, it's the novels where we see the setting come alive, and where we get the best feel for the Realms.

Just keep in mind that some novels are better at this then others... Novels like the Finder's Stone books or Elaine's stuff is very immersive, while some other authors barely pay attention to the published lore and just do what they feel like.

Taste in novels is quite subjective, as well. I generally recommend reading them for yourself to form an opinion. While there are some that are almost universally enjoyed -- like Elaine's stuff -- there's other stuff that has people strongly for it and people strongly against it. I tend to avoid Ed's fiction, myself, though most recommend it. People either love or hate Troy Denning's stuff (for me, it depends on which book we're talking about). And the War of the Spider Queen was well-regarded by the majority, but I find very little worthwhile about the books.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Feb 2020 15:55:20
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cpthero2
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Posted - 08 Feb 2020 :  18:02:07  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

My apologies, I was not very articulate in my question. I was meaning in my question as to whether I should abstain from reading 4e novels. I own and have read all other novels except 43 and 5e era novels. :)

Best regards,



Robert McDonell
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Zeromaru X
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Posted - 08 Feb 2020 :  18:44:44  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Many 4e novels are really good. You should not discard them just because people here don't like 4e and say its "badwrongfun" to read them. You should at least give them a try yourself to form your own opinion on the matter.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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