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RodOdom
Senior Scribe

USA
509 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2006 :  23:45:17  Show Profile  Visit RodOdom's Homepage Send RodOdom a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Has anyone used this race of pacifistic orcs in their game? I think they are pretty neat.

Halidan
Senior Scribe

USA
470 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2006 :  21:04:32  Show Profile  Visit Halidan's Homepage Send Halidan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In a campaign I ran several years ago, my players all strted out as the slaves of an orc tribe in the Turnback Mountains, north of the Moonsea, on the western edge of the Tortured Lands.

After the players escaped, they encountered a dying orcish priest of Eldath. With his last breaths, he told the players that slavers had captured his acolytes and asked them to rescue the youngsters.

The players tracked down the slavers over the course of several days and assaulted their camp. They were a bit surprised to find out that the acolytes were 15 Ondonti youth. After the rescue, the players escorted the Ondonti back to their village. The youth were all members of the one remaining free Ondonti tribe (the one guarded by a water elemental servant of Eldath). They stayed with the tribe for several weeks, learning about their culture and history.

The Ondonti weren't the main focus of the campaign, but they made a nice side-adventure with an interesting and little know culture of the Realms.

"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"

Edgar Allen Poe - 1849
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe

USA
509 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2006 :  21:52:56  Show Profile  Visit RodOdom's Homepage Send RodOdom a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now that's an interesting side quest.
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Reefy
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
892 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2006 :  01:22:31  Show Profile  Visit Reefy's Homepage Send Reefy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm playing a cleric of Eldath in Kaladorm's PBEM game (http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3966) and my character has an ondonti pupil of his, who has founded a small shrine near Lake Eredruie.
I like them as a race and am hoping we may get a mention of them in Mysteries of the Moonsea.

Life is either daring adventure or nothing.
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe

USA
509 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2006 :  03:42:46  Show Profile  Visit RodOdom's Homepage Send RodOdom a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In an online game I've introduced ondonti Eldathyn paladin NPC. One of the things I just love about the Realms is all the interesting details you can find even with a less popular facet like Eldath.
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Reefy
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
892 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2006 :  20:31:34  Show Profile  Visit Reefy's Homepage Send Reefy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom

In an online game I've introduced ondonti Eldathyn paladin NPC. One of the things I just love about the Realms is all the interesting details you can find even with a less popular facet like Eldath.



Quite, to be honest I don't think I'd ever paid any attention to Eldath before now, I'd just skipped over her (and indeed, thought she was a male god for a while...)

Life is either daring adventure or nothing.
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe

USA
509 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2006 :  19:25:40  Show Profile  Visit RodOdom's Homepage Send RodOdom a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Faiths and Avatarssourcebook, though it is older than the new Faiths and Pantheons is chock full of Eldath info.
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Reefy
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
892 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2006 :  00:35:35  Show Profile  Visit Reefy's Homepage Send Reefy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know, it's a great book. I converted some of the deity specific spells from there to 3E, if you're interested. And made a new Initiate feat for her, as I felt the Initiate of Nature was inappropriate.

Life is either daring adventure or nothing.
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe

USA
509 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2006 :  04:03:18  Show Profile  Visit RodOdom's Homepage Send RodOdom a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Please share !
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4049 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2020 :  07:02:32  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
REZ SCROLL

So the Ondonti...pacifist orcs.

How were they made pacifists?

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3311 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2020 :  07:11:50  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

REZ SCROLL

So the Ondonti...pacifist orcs.

How were they made pacifists?



They started as a large group of orc children raised by followers of Eldath, and eventually formed their own community and culture based on Eldath's teachings.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 22 Sep 2020 07:12:27
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4049 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2020 :  07:58:51  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I remember that part...what I don't understand is that if they are Orcs...how is their innate savagery kept in check? Their desire to eat flesh, their impulsivity and quickness to anger?

I"m not asking really if there is already something in writing...but what do people think would be done to change orcs so completely?

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4049 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2020 :  08:09:55  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, and kind of a different topic: how do these orcs have innate spells?

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3311 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2020 :  15:00:36  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

I remember that part...what I don't understand is that if they are Orcs...how is their innate savagery kept in check? Their desire to eat flesh, their impulsivity and quickness to anger?



The point is that it doesn't exist. FR is more nuanced with innate morality than traditional D&D. Same thing goes for other races, like the drow.

Or you could just say that Eldath waved her hand (or her priests cast some spell) and all that stuff disappeared.

If you want to go for a "dark secret" kind of narrative, you could have the Ondonti as magically brainwashed by their priests from childhood (or something like that), and that being kept a secret, but that's icky to me. And really, it defeats the whole point of adding variant cultures of monolithic races, and of the attempt to add some value to the underwhelming aspects of traditional D&D worldbuilding.

On a side note, this:

"Their desire to eat flesh, their impulsivity and quickness to anger"

sounds a whole lot like *many* humans to me, and humans can be pacifists too, so there isn't much to justify here.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 22 Sep 2020 15:05:13
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

756 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2020 :  15:02:43  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

I remember that part...what I don't understand is that if they are Orcs...how is their innate savagery kept in check? Their desire to eat flesh, their impulsivity and quickness to anger?

I"m not asking really if there is already something in writing...but what do people think would be done to change orcs so completely?



I think this is "all nurture and no nature".

Orcs are not evil savage beasts at birth but if the only way to survive is to raid others and eat them they end up doing that, Eldath showed them another way.

Much later, the Kingdom of Many-Arrows achieved something similar when (some of) the orcs finally had a usable patch of land for their own and didn't need to raid for sustenance anymore. Although admittedly Many-Arrows was not a pacifist kindgom, but they were not bloodthirsty savage beasts either.
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2020 :  09:33:07  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe RodOdom,

No, but I think the RP challenge of playing a pacifist is awesome and really hard!

Best regards,



Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2551 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2020 :  00:20:15  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Ondti need some attention.

Sweet water and light laughter
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2020 :  04:49:14  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Darden,

quote:
...how is their innate savagery kept in check? Their desire to eat flesh, their impulsivity and quickness to anger?


This is absolutely, in my view, the best and more relevant question here. If it is a genetic compulsion to behave the way they do, what is happening to facilitate such a radical change from their inherent nature?

I would be extremely interested in hear the very fine print details as to why it would be nurture over nature.

Best regards,



Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

756 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2020 :  10:12:13  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader Darden,

quote:
...how is their innate savagery kept in check? Their desire to eat flesh, their impulsivity and quickness to anger?


This is absolutely, in my view, the best and more relevant question here. If it is a genetic compulsion to behave the way they do, what is happening to facilitate such a radical change from their inherent nature?

I would be extremely interested in hear the very fine print details as to why it would be nurture over nature.

Best regards,






Read the replies above by Irennan and me, we got it covered.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9745 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2020 :  13:21:51  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You're all wrong. Totally absolutely wrong. Nope, don't tell me you're right, because you're wrong. The true secret .... you ready for it.... warning it's graphic... the worship of Eldath requires a certain medical procedure to be performed on orc male infants. It's called circumcision, and its meant to make it easier to keep them clean "down there". It causes great psychological stress on orc males in their infancy, and they never ever ever ever recover from it.

Or at least that's what a Leiran bard was singing about the other day. It was quite a catchy tune called "Bring back my foreskin to me", and it was lamenting the loss of such a vital element of orc biology.

"Briiinnnng Back,
Briiinnng Back,
Bring Back my Foreskin to me, to me
O Briiinnnng Back,
Briiinnng Back,
Bring Back my Foreskin to meeee,"

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 29 Oct 2020 13:52:04
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4049 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2020 :  14:28:44  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOL

On a different "note"...how do they innately cast spells if they are "just orcs"?

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2020 :  17:04:35  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader sleyvas,

lol, very nice.

What is truly remarkable is that with the layered meanings I had squirreled away in there, that you ultimately understood that I was clearly implying Orc foreskin. haha

quote:
Or at least that's what a Leiran bard was singing about the other day. It was quite a catchy tune called "Bring back my foreskin to me", and it was lamenting the loss of such a vital element of orc biology.


I believe this is the Leiran bard you were looking for the other day. This is another hit, beyond the foreskin song...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nNGKK_tv44

"Into the Mist" is obviously a very provocative, Leiran song. ;)

quote:

"Briiinnnng Back,
Briiinnng Back,
Bring Back my Foreskin to me, to me
O Briiinnnng Back,
Briiinnng Back,
Bring Back my Foreskin to meeee,"



Also, you really are good sir, missing out on your calling as a lyricist... just sayin'.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3311 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2020 :  22:05:28  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

LOL

On a different "note"...how do they innately cast spells if they are "just orcs"?



Eldath's blessing, probably. A deity granting a boon doesn't equal to a deity rewiring someone's breain.

You may ask what's the difference between a deity blessing someone with a few powers and blessing them with a more productive behavior. From a narrative standpoint, while making choices the result of something that isn't under the control of a character is a mistake (because narrative is about choices and understanding that you need to change to overcome obstacles), giving power isn't necessarily a mistake (though it can become one, depending on how you handle it).

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  23:47:05  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Irennan,

Good point there. I think the ethic involved and the aims/goals of the deity as well, are going to play an integral part of that spell casting allowance.

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
501 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  00:52:27  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It could be that their pacifistic nature was bred into them over time. The orc children were taken to Myth Ondath. It could be that the mythal there did something to them over time. 78 years is enough for a couple orc generations. As for the innate spells, that was very likely a gift from Eldath to help them after the Ice Queen destroyed their home.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  06:43:20  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe TheIriaeban,

That is an exceptionally cool idea. Imagine the gray orcs discovering this somehow and going into a religious frenzy over it! What a way to bring Eldath front and center into a campaign. I may have to steal that idea!

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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