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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5122 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2006 :  08:10:15  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah Dhomal, it's little lore-links like that which make the Realms the grand place that it is. Good job!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2006 :  12:52:49  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dhomal,

I have just started digging into PoF. Nice job!

ShadowJack
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scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1615 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2006 :  04:37:08  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have always been interested in Minotaurs, ever since DL. I like the idea of them being explored in teh realms, at least on some level. I have always felt they were more than creatures encountered in mazes and such

"Yap,yap, little dog!" - Riven - page 326 Shadowbred, by Paul Kemp

_________________________

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
- J. R. R. Tolkien
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2006 :  19:16:53  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Next Installment...

As Ketor lays dying an unknown deity appears to him and heals his wounds. This deity says he has seen the honor with which Ketor's people have endured their bondage to the giants. This deity wishes to aid the minotaurs. Ketor agrees to serve the deity forever and renounce giant deities and Baphomet in return for help. The deity takes Ketor to a large elven city in the Auldgloam. Ketor offers to lead his minotaur army away without attacking if the elves will aid their escape. The elven Coronal agrees with one condition; the minotaurs agree to perform some service for the elven people if ever they should ask. Ketor reluctantly agrees. Ketor returns to his people and tells them of his agreement with the deity and the elves. Most of the minotaurs agree as a large force of giant-led gnolls is approaching. The minority priests of Baphomet are displeased but agree to follow.
The gnolls are ready to attack with overwhelming numbers when Ketor challenges the giant leader to combat. Armed with a magical axe and powerful abilities from the deity, Ketor defeats the giant and his people force the gnolls to retreat enough to give them a chance at escape. True to their word, the elves lead the minotaurs into the Auldgloam to a large gate. Ketor leads his people through the gate to an old ruined city in the Firesteap mountains. For the next thousand years ketor leads his people in a nomadic journey from place to place at the direction of his patron deity. The minotaurs support themselves as mercenaries.

Next the death of Ketor...

ShadowJack
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  02:14:17  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looks good so far...

Though, I'm not too sure about the fact that Ketor has agreed so readily to the "unknown deity". I would imagine he has the interests of his people at heart and their continued survival, but I would also think he would remain a little cautious about who this unknown deity actually is and what his motives are.

I'm not saying Ketor doesn't have to go along with it... but I think you should try to at least convey the fact that he is a little weary about this power. Weary of the fact that it might seize upon the desparation of his people for itself and perhaps draw Ketor and his people into the machinations of other places or powers.

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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  03:34:46  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All too true! If he is as great a leader as I am implying, he would have to have reservations about trusting the future of his people to another power... This will need to be addressed. Any ideas?

ShadowJack
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31134 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  03:59:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He could have already known the deity, at least indirectly... Perhaps one of his friends or a close confidant was a follower of this deity?

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  04:06:26  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

He could have already known the deity, at least indirectly... Perhaps one of his friends or a close confidant was a follower of this deity?

Sounds good enough for me too.

Perhaps Ketor has only heard rumors of this unknown power in the past, and decides to learn more for himself, either through his friend, as Wooly suggests, or by hunting for followers himself.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  23:46:31  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-4300 DR The Death of Ketor
The minoyaurs wander into the area of the Qurth Forest. Hunting parties find a large, easily defended clearing in the midst of the woods. Ketor leads his people into the woods to rest and regroup from their wanderings. Using this time of peace to their advantage, the followers of Baphomet, a small, but powerful faction in the minotaur tribes, attempts to assasinate Ketor and his strongest supporters. By this time Ketor is revered by most of his people as a god. The High Priest of Baphomet, imbued with powers from his god, attacks Ketor. Ketor slays the priest of Baphomet in a day long battle using the powers and magical axe given to him by his patron deity. The followers of Baphomet are routed out of the tribes with the survivors fleeing into the Underdark, just as the "shamed" did before them. Ketor is weakened and seriously wounded to the point of death. His last act is to appoint a Warleader in his place. The grieving minotaurs build a huge cairn over the body of their leader and place his magical axe and armor with him. The next thousand years see the minotaurs migrating back to the Qurth Forest every ten years to honor Ketor. By this time Ketor is venerated as their patron god. These minotaur tribes are led by the Priests of Ketor and an appointed Warleader.
-4400 DR Raising of the Temple and founding of the city of Ketorn.
The High Priest of Ketor recieves a vision from Ketor. He leads the minotaurs back to the site of his deities mortal death. Once there he instructs the people to build a temple to Ketor. Using many of the stones from the cairn a massive temple is begun to honor Ketor.
-4280 DR The temple is completed. In the final ceremony, Ketor's remains and armor are interred in maze/catacombs beneath the temple. The magical axe (Bardiche, magic abilities? stats?) gifted to Ketor is given to the warleader as a sign of Ketor's favor. During this time a small city grows up around the temple, it is named Ketorn to honor their deity. The minotaurs hunt, farm a little and continue to hire out as mercenaries. The minotaurs are very isolationist and allow no visitors to their city. Its existence is almost unknown.
next the Elves return...

ShadowJack
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2006 :  00:02:18  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry, the middle date given in the last entry should be -3300 DR and the last should be -3280 DR. Need to get all my notes together in one place...

ShadowJack
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31134 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2006 :  03:05:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*Ping!*

How goes the project, ShadowJack?

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2006 :  22:22:52  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Slight digression from the direction that this particular thread is going in, but with the information on Haagenti in Tome of Magic, I was wondering if perhaps, Haagenti, after being cast off, might not have been more of a patroness of "good" or "neutral" minotaurs. Perhaps Baphomet could have taken her as a mate (reluctantly on her part) and after subverting her children, Baphomet then did away with her.

Just a random thought to throw in, especially with a name associated with Minotaur origins popping up recently.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2006 :  17:56:02  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
KEjr, I do not have that particular tome so I can not utilize it. It does sound like it would fit into the theme... More info would be appreciated. Wooly, between school and computer malfunctions I am behind on my postings. I will update within the week...

ShadowJack
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2006 :  17:47:49  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-3144 The small city of Ketorn has continued to thrive and maintain its relative isolation within the expanse of the Qurth Forest. Companies of Minotaur mercenaries are hired from as far away as Mir(Tethyr), the Jhaamdath(Vilhon Reach) and of course, Calimshan.
The minotaurs are shocked when their isolation is broken by the appearance of a large, well-armed band of Moon Elves approaches the gates and demands to see the Warleader and High Priest of Ketor. The warleader assembles a warband of minotaurs to drive them off, but, is stopped by the High Priest before any hostilities ensue. The High Priest has the elves escorted to the Temple where they remain for two days. Early on the third day the elves depart as quickly as they appeared. Minotaur rangers follow them as far as old ruins in a wwild section of the forest.
Several months later the elves return, escorting a group of 200 gnomes; escaped slaves from Nehteril. The gnomes are brought into the city whereupon the High Priest reminds the puzzled minotaurs of the ancient promise that Ketor made with the elves. Minotaur craftsmen help the gnomes construct the Burrow Quarter of Ketorn. Rumors abound of a powerful magic that the gnomes brought with them, and the elves would prefer kept secret, that is hidden in the bowels of Ketor's Temple.
-3133 to 1311
Ketorn remains largley unknown outside of the Qurth Forest, due to its isolation and gnomish illusions. The city continues to grow with the main exports being mercenaries. As both gnome and minotaur populations increase there is increased pressure on the Warleader and the High Priest to allow trade with neighboring cities. For centuries this reuest is denied.

-1325
After years of debate, the High Priest of Ketor tells the people of Ketorn that their god has told him them to rejoin the world around them. Many are puzzled by this sudden reversal of policy. Gnome craftsmen are elated. Late in this year, the first group of gnome merchants leaves the city and finds ready buyers for Minotuar maze-pattern cloth and gnomish metal goods, cut gems and wood carvings.


ShadowJack
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2006 :  17:51:23  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is what I have completed so far. As you can see there are huge gaps in the timeline. I welcome any ideas that can tie-in to realms events during this time. Let me know what you think. I appreciate any feedback.

ShadowJack
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2006 :  16:37:17  Show Profile  Visit Dhomal's Homepage Send Dhomal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello-

As I was reading through MoM = the general Hillsfar section - a certain Minotaur gladiator was mentioned....

Tonorok (LE male minotaur warrior 3) (* reference begins on p50, and wraps to p51 - but its only about a paragraph.*)

interestingly enough - it does mention 'a series of tunnels' that he has been gioven - i.e. - a maze possibly?

Just updating further Realmslore on Minotaurs! :)

Dhomal

I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!

Successfully traded with Xysma!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31134 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2006 :  18:23:35  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
An idea that occurs to me: perhaps there is a system of naturally-occurring caverns under and near this citystate. This would allow for underground farming of mushrooms and edible fungi, and for the grazing of Underdark rothé. This additional foodsource would mean less surface ground had to go to food production, helping keep the city hidden.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2006 :  10:40:25  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As long as there's adequate defenses, and the minotaurs take steps to ensure the caverns remain a secret (the caverns themselves may have at some point in their history... connected to the rest of the Underdark), that would certainly go aways toward keeping the minotaur city-state safe and completely self-sufficient.

Good stuff.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2006 :  20:15:55  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As always, the Sages of Candlekeep prove themselves to be in a class of their own! Wooly, the underground cavern farms are a great idea and fits in better with current Realmslore! I will ponder this issue more and write something up in a future post, unless someone else already has an idea...

ShadowJack
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2006 :  20:30:47  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
After re-reading my earlier timeline posts (the date of the last should be 1325 and not -1325?!?!)the afore-mentioned scenario of cavern farms fits in well with the scenario of the priests of Baphomet fleeing into the Underdark via caverns in the clearing in the Qurth Forest, where the city of Ketorn will be built... To insure the traitorous Baphomites? never bother them again they wall off the lower tunnels and seal it with powerful divine magic granted by Ketor.
After the gnomes arrival they supplement the city's food supply with more surface grown crops.

ShadowJack
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2007 :  17:26:48  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sages,
I submit this for your review and critique…
I have been trying to find a storyline to tie my current campaign in with the direction I have decided to go, so here it is…
My current storyline involves a young elven bard whose family was powerful in the elven kingdom of Earlann or Phalorm. Much of their power derived from their mages and High mages who created many portals connecting various elven realms and their own holdings together. Due to plotting by another house it was made to look as if the young elf’s family betrayed Earlann (or Phalorm) and this alleged betrayal contributed to the downfall of the realms. The family was disgraced in this time as many of its most influential members were killed in the fighting or through treachery. This disgrace continues to this day with the family being somewhat shunned on Evermeet. The family is small, but due to its faithful service to Queen Amlaruil has maintained its status as minor nobility due to her goodwill. Through the centuries many of the family has sought a way to clear the family’s honor. Part of this has been many attempts to recover the family’s moonblade… (not a quest the young bard will take up anytime soon…)
In the current year (1370) a Red Wizard of Thay has discovered the portal network this elven family made during the days of Earlann and a staff that acts as the key to activate the network. He has been using these portals to move slaves to finance his real goal: finding the artifact (possibly a remnant of one of the creator races) that allowed this elven family to create portals so easily. It is rumored that this artifact may be able to create portals into/through wards and mythals. As no High Mages of the family survived the fall of Earlann, the family’s memory of this artifact is largely forgotten. The PCs become caught up in a clash with the Red Wizard and are drawn into a campaign to rescue folks kidnapped by the Red Wizard. They will discover there is more to the campaign than just a rescue… After delivering a message to Silverymoon, for a Harper Agent they rescued, they will be approached to investigate this Red Wizard’s activities further… Once they discover that he is looking for this powerful item they will (lead by the Elven Bard) attempt to stop him from gaining the item…
This is how I plan on tying my campaign in with the ideas in this thread. The artifact that the elves entrusted to the Minotaurs was this portal-creating artifact. When I start this new “chapter” of my campaign the PC’s first task will be to get the Minotaurs on their side and convince them of the danger… Obviously, I need to adjust my timeline or story to make it fit better chronologically… There is more background to the storyline, but I did not want to bore you with ALL the details…

ShadowJack
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2009 :  18:21:23  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope that i do not get thrown out of CandleKeep for necromancy... I am about to necro-post... Maybe, resurrect is a better term.

I recently started thinking about this project again and logged on to check on some of the details we had come up with. Hearing Wooly and Sage express interest in this got me fired up to continue developing this idea. (I also had to work through my anger issues with WotC, lol...)

The tough spot I had in writing this Minotaur history was the issue of which deity sponsored Ketor and raised him to Demi-power status? Torm would be excellent but is too modern in Realms history/lore. I thought Ilmater would be a good choice as he has been around the Realms for a long time and was drawn to the minotaurs suffering and perseverance through it all. Thinking of other Realms deities that are ancient in the Realms I thought of Selune and Lathander. Lathander could work as part of his new beginnings/starts portfolio. Selune would be cool because I think she is the neatest Realm's deity... Give me your thoughts, please.
Sage, are some of your ideas related to this topic?

ShadowJack
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
201 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2009 :  18:37:06  Show Profile  Visit Wrigs13's Homepage Send Wrigs13 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm glad this is back, after our earlier posts I had to sneak looks at this in darkened rooms when no one was looking

Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31134 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2009 :  18:54:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thread necromancy is fine.

As for the deity, it could be a fallen or now subsumed deity...

I found a couple of bits in the Grand History of the Realms that I think need to be considered, when doing the history of this city-state. From page 15 of that source, emphasis mine:

quote:
-10400 DR
Dark elves of Clan Sethomiir travel by magic to the Riildath (present-day Rawlinswood and Forest of Lethyr) from Ilythiir, guided by the hand of the balor Wendonai. They construct an underground fortress named Narathmault [-10000], "the Dark Pit," at the site of present-day Dun-Tharos, recognizing it as a place of great evil.

-10000 DR
Descent of the Drow:
Corellon’s magic, as directed through his priests and High Mages, transforms the dark elves, whether the corrupt Ilythiiri or others, into the drow. Whether by magic or by the weakesses that banish them from the sunlit lands, all drow retreat within two months’ passing into the Underdark.
-Elves are summoned by the Seldarine to the site that becomes the Elven Court one month after the Descent of the Drow, to settle differences and restore peace among the elves.
-Like their kin elsewhere, the dark elves of Narathmault [-10400, -9750] are transformed into drow by the will of the Seldarine, shattering their bindings over a host of fiends who swiftly turn on their former masters. Led by Undrek of Clan Sethomiir, the drow and their minotaur servants are forced to flee Narathmault, traveling south and east into the underground caverns beneath the present-day Plateau of Thay.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2009 :  23:01:10  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack

Sage, are some of your ideas related to this topic?

I'll have to check my notes. I know one of my basic ideas revolves around the second GHotR date Wooly just referenced above.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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