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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31696 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2006 :  16:36:48  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra

Perhaps, in an effort to determine who the patron god is, you should determine when exactly these minotaur refugees left the collapsing giant empire and made their way to the city they will conquer and make their own. At least that way you'll have a suitable period of Forgotten Realms history to work around.
Well, they likely would have departed just before or just after the giants power collapsed post -25,000DR. I don't think they would have headed directly to the Lake of Steam since it was a significantly different region in that era that what it is today.

So perhaps we should instead account for the first few centuries of the refugee minotaurs after they depart of the giants realm and then go from there.

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Edited by - The Sage on 27 Feb 2006 16:38:05
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7594 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2006 :  20:26:01  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
<<I like the idea of a minotaur realm. I might put one in the history of the East - the plateau of Thay looks like a possibility.

-- George Krashos>>

Yeah, and with all the gnolls around, it would absolutely fit as to why they don't like one another (competition for resources).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7594 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2006 :  20:45:02  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
>>Well, I think George's original idea about the plateaus of Thay is definitely a good place >>to start. And it's isolated enough so that it doesn't have to have an immediate impact upon >>the "heart" of the Realms setting itself -- doing away with messy questions about "why this >>minotaur nation was never discovered or mentioned previously".

Actually, given that Thay's plateau was populated by some less than honorable centaurs, a horde of gnolls, many orc refugees from the orcgate wars, and had a neighboring country of star elves.... minotaurs would definitely seem to fit in. However, despite their strength, maybe they were being overwhelmed by numbers, and thus they dug into the plateaus and developed trapped mazes to protect their villages (but would come out to raid for food, etc..).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7594 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2006 :  20:48:45  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
>>I think it would be interesting to have yak-folk and minotaurs >>interact... like a community of taurens (no reference to Warcraft >>intended). it would be similar to elves and humans living together.

Yes, and there was rumored in a dragon article on the yak folk to be a culture of them in the hordelands just east of Rashemen and Thay.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2006 :  22:33:57  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Well, they likely would have departed just before or just after the giants power collapsed post -25,000DR. I don't think they would have headed directly to the Lake of Steam since it was a significantly different region in that era that what it is today.

So perhaps we should instead account for the first few centuries of the refugee minotaurs after they depart of the giants realm and then go from there.



Just on that, the SK Timeline re the "Eras of Faerūn" is somewhat western side of the continent biased. We know that it was the emergence of the elves and the First Flowering that saw the decline of the giants and the dragons. However, I postulate that in the East, given the absence of any major elven nations before the end of the Crown Wars, the dragons and giants held sway longer and had realms/kingdoms that existed past -25000 DR. Just my 2 cp.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe

Australia
921 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  00:25:07  Show Profile  Visit Lady Kazandra's Homepage Send Lady Kazandra a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Well, they likely would have departed just before or just after the giants power collapsed post -25,000DR. I don't think they would have headed directly to the Lake of Steam since it was a significantly different region in that era that what it is today.

So perhaps we should instead account for the first few centuries of the refugee minotaurs after they depart of the giants realm and then go from there.



Just on that, the SK Timeline re the "Eras of Faerūn" is somewhat western side of the continent biased. We know that it was the emergence of the elves and the First Flowering that saw the decline of the giants and the dragons. However, I postulate that in the East, given the absence of any major elven nations before the end of the Crown Wars, the dragons and giants held sway longer and had realms/kingdoms that existed past -25000 DR. Just my 2 cp.

-- George Krashos


Interesting.

So what type of timeframe would we be looking at George - - a few centuries past that date, or even a few millennia?

I'm assuming the collapse would be between -25,000DR and the coming of human tribes in the lands of Rashemen in -5,000DR.

"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett

Edited by - Lady Kazandra on 28 Feb 2006 00:28:05
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  00:51:02  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I must confess it's something I've only recently turned my mind to as a few other pieces have fallen into place regarding humans and hobgoblins. Essentially (and we must keep in mind that there is no Great Glacier at this time) I see the giant realms break off from a unified Ostoria and be located in the area where the GG is now. I'm thinking mostly frost and hill giants with a smattering of stone. No fire giants because I don't think the temperature suits them. Storm giants, again I postulate, leave after the fall of Ostoria and enter the Sea of Fallen Stars. These giant realms (and all things going well, we'll get to know the names of a few more than we do now, in time to come) have hobgoblin and human slaves (for work and food). I'm thinking the frost and stone have humans mostly and the hill giants have hobgoblins (who they also use as slave military troops). They are noweher near as big or populous as Ostoria but are not insignificant either.

The forests now known as the Rawlinswood and the Forest of Lethyr (Ed tells me that this used to be one big forest known as the Auldgloam) are where the 'free' hobgoblins and humans (i.e. mostly escaped slaves) live. At this time, this forest likely extends to the Aglarondan peninsula (and also west into Impiltur) and so the Yuir humans (noted in Demihuman Deities and "The Simbul's Gift") are likely one of the tribes of humans that live in these woodlands. Remember, we are talking primitive here. The humans and hobgoblins of the woodlands are in a constant state of quasi-war and raiding - whilst keeping away from the big folk, dragons and the slaver races of gnolls and minotaurs that live (in conflict) on the plateau to the south.

Following the Crown Wars, the elves decide to colonize the forest and do so in great numbers - mostly 'wood elves' and a smattering of moon and gold. They upset the balance in the region driving out both the hobgoblins and the humans - although the isolated Yuir remain a touch longer. Naturally, neither the humans nor the hobgoblins leave without a fight. The hobgoblins use fire (hence clearing the woods from what are now the Uplands of Impiltur) but eventually both races are (for the most part) driven north into the plains and tundra now encompassed by the Great Glacier. The giants are now weaker than before (having fought great conflicts with the dragons - to the detriment of both races) and the humans and hobgoblins more than hold their own. In fact, their forced migration north in c.-10000 to -9500 DR smashes the giant 'kingdoms' and they revert to isolated clans and family groupings. These humans are the racial grouping we now refer to as the Nar.

With the formation of the Great Glacier (and I have to somehow tally this with the myth in "Giantcraft" re Othea and Ulutiu - I hate to say it but the dates aren't even close so Ulutiu's slumber is likely something of a mystery and nothing to do with the fall of Ostoria - no matter what the bards would tell you) and its spread south, the hobgoblins and humans are on the move again. This time back to the forests and into clashes with the elves. Both the humans and hobgoblins have has millenia to organise, grow in knowledge and power etc. They battle ceaslessly with the elves and eventually the elves Retreat to other elven kingdoms such as Eaerlann and Illefarn or even Evereska and Evermeet.

This brings us pretty close to recorded history in the East. There are lots more gaps (which I'm filling as best I can) but that's the gist of how I see things happening. Of course, I forgot to mention the dwarves, but they are in there as well - somewhere!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5054 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  01:16:50  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice, George, VERY nice. Ed has some giants' realm names in his original (faint, smudged) pencil Realms notes, from the 1970s. I saw them once whilst snooping after Realmslore.
Yes, I AM bad.
love,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 28 Feb 2006 01:58:41
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31638 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  02:10:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Nice, George, VERY nice. Ed has some giants' realm names in his original (faint, smudged) pencil Realms notes, from the 1970s. I saw them once whilst snooping after Realmslore.
Yes, I AM bad.
love,
THO



Does that mean we need to spank you for being bad?

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
31696 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  04:48:29  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Nice, George, VERY nice. Ed has some giants' realm names in his original (faint, smudged) pencil Realms notes, from the 1970s. I saw them once whilst snooping after Realmslore.
Yes, I AM bad.
love,
THO

Quite true my lady . Bravo George, very nice indeed.

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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  12:44:24  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mr. Krashos,

AWESOME!

I am humbled to be in thy presence...

ShadowJack
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  12:54:32  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, Our minotaur having been forced to take part in these numerous conflicts on behalf of the giants, decide they are done. They strike a deal with dwarves?, not likely, Elves?, possible, In return for not following orders and attacking an elven settlement/kingdom, they strike a deal. The elves allow them use of a gate that transports them a great distance. The minotaurs wander for several hundred years (nomadic)supporting themselves through mercenary endeavors. Finally, they find the remains of a (maze-like) city on the southern coast of the Lake of Steam, drive off the (true) monsters and set up shop. Several hundred years after that they are shocked when a group of gnomes shows up in their midst with an elven escort, calling in a favor from the minotaurs past. The gnomes are escaped slaves from Netheril being helped to escape by the elves. (read on the Wizard's website, somewhere... About old elven gates) The minotaurs, being honorable, agree to take them in. What happens next is surprising as a strong symbiotic relationship occurs... and persists to this day...

ShadowJack
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  13:06:56  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack

Mr. Krashos,



My dad is here!?!

quote:

AWESOME!

I am humbled to be in thy presence...



Oh don't be so silly! I'm just making stuff up like everybody else. It's not so hard if you try. Glad you liked my musings.

-- George Krashos



"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31638 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  17:16:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack

So, Our minotaur having been forced to take part in these numerous conflicts on behalf of the giants, decide they are done. They strike a deal with dwarves?, not likely, Elves?, possible, In return for not following orders and attacking an elven settlement/kingdom, they strike a deal. The elves allow them use of a gate that transports them a great distance. The minotaurs wander for several hundred years (nomadic)supporting themselves through mercenary endeavors. Finally, they find the remains of a (maze-like) city on the southern coast of the Lake of Steam, drive off the (true) monsters and set up shop. Several hundred years after that they are shocked when a group of gnomes shows up in their midst with an elven escort, calling in a favor from the minotaurs past. The gnomes are escaped slaves from Netheril being helped to escape by the elves. (read on the Wizard's website, somewhere... About old elven gates) The minotaurs, being honorable, agree to take them in. What happens next is surprising as a strong symbiotic relationship occurs... and persists to this day...



Hmmm... It's rough, but I like the idea.

I don't know that the ruined city needs to be maze-like, or even needs to exist at all. It could have been that the minotaurs broke up into groups, not unlike tribes. They picked a convenient/designated spot for meetings and trade, and, as time passed, that spot grew into a city as the minotaurs became less nomadic.

The spot could even be where their leader died or was buried. First it became a shrine, then it became a temple as the city formed around it... Going with this angle, the temple would be near the center of the town, and the clergy would be an important part of the government.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Feb 2006 17:19:07
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  19:20:04  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wooly,

I like the idea of the city being the spot where their leader died. The idea of the clergy being central to their government is excellent. These older clergy, the wisest in the various tribes, are the elders that direct the daily affairs of their culture. To keep it from being a total theocracy, there is also a "Warleader". The greatest, most well-liked warrior of the city. It is his task to carry on the spirit and ideals of the original Hero/Leader. In a way the clergy/elders are the legislature and the warleader is the executive. The temple also serves as the government seat with an assembly hall.

So, that having been said, I gotta ask... What do ya'll think about the gnomes being included in this? (Be kind) I like the gnomes...

the maze thing I am suggesting only because it is part of their stats in all the books. It also sets them apart more from the other races...

ShadowJack
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
31638 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  20:26:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack

Wooly,

I like the idea of the city being the spot where their leader died. The idea of the clergy being central to their government is excellent. These older clergy, the wisest in the various tribes, are the elders that direct the daily affairs of their culture. To keep it from being a total theocracy, there is also a "Warleader". The greatest, most well-liked warrior of the city. It is his task to carry on the spirit and ideals of the original Hero/Leader. In a way the clergy/elders are the legislature and the warleader is the executive. The temple also serves as the government seat with an assembly hall.


Yeah, I like the idea of making their religion more prominent, too.

quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack

So, that having been said, I gotta ask... What do ya'll think about the gnomes being included in this? (Be kind) I like the gnomes...


It's an odd idea, and it'd make for some interesting architecture, because of the size difference. There's going to have to be a good reason for the two races to coexist, I think... The elven favor idea is a good start, but I'd add something more into it, to reinforce it. Maybe the gnomes in some way later aided the minotaurs, earning their gratitude. Maybe it was some great service they did for the city (like misdirecting a serious threat before the minotaurs knew about it), or maybe it was something simpler, like a later warleader being best buds with a gnome, causing his people to follow his lead.

quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack

the maze thing I am suggesting only because it is part of their stats in all the books. It also sets them apart more from the other races...


I can see keeping the maze thing, since it is in all the books. But, as I pointed out earlier, it's an odd mythological artifact. I think that this too would require some justification for it to make sense.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Feb 2006 20:28:47
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  22:14:05  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is a little far out there...

What if the gnomes managed to get their hands on one section of the Nether Scrolls? The elves, get them out of Netheril, but, for some reason, do not want to take possession of the scroll. The elves remember the minotaurs debt to their ancestors and call in the favor with the minotaurs. Take in these refugees, for a while, keep them and the Nether Scroll safe for a period of 100 years??? After this time your debt to us (the elves) is paid in full.The clergy/elders, because of their deities mythos, see guarding the Scroll as a sacred duty, and agree. What happens is the Minotaurs find that the gnome's skills with various things is beneficial. The gnomes provide armor, weapons?, alchemical substances, and magic. Some gnome mages even hire out with the mercenary bands, providing magical fire power. The minotaurs know how to fight, farm and maybe, some construction, the gnomes provide very useful items that aid their lives. The city is not well known because of illusionary magic that the gnomes employed to keep it hidden from the minotaurs ancient enemies, the frost giants???, who occasionally come looking for them, and did so not long after the gnomes are taken in... The Scroll is placed in "maze-like" catacombs beneath the temple, where it remains guarded by secrecy, gnome magic and minotaur might...
Sorry so long...
Now we just need an appropriate deity... I have no giant sourcebooks, any ideas?

ShadowJack
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 28 Feb 2006 :  22:47:47  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like it!

Except for the sacred duty part... With what we've kicked around thus far, I don't see guarding the Scroll as being a sacred duty.

And there would have to be a really good reason for the elves to not take in the Scroll. I'd likely go with some other item, something the elves would not want in their borders but would still want guarded.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Posted - 01 Mar 2006 :  01:45:13  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll go with what Wooly said in his 28 Feb 2006 : 20:26:24 reply.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I like it!

Except for the sacred duty part... With what we've kicked around thus far, I don't see guarding the Scroll as being a sacred duty.

And there would have to be a really good reason for the elves to not take in the Scroll. I'd likely go with some other item, something the elves would not want in their borders but would still want guarded.

I'm not too sure about the Nether Scroll either. It just doesn't fit with the whole work-up we've established for the minotaurs so far. However, if that's the way you want to go... more power to you .

It might be worthwhile designing another artifact for this sacred duty aspect -- perhaps something that the minotaurs would automatically want to protect and would therefore see this task as a sacred duty.

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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe

USA
350 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2006 :  03:07:53  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well Met and Good Day, Noble Sages!

I have been working on details/timeline (rough) of our minotaur hero (here after referred to as Ketor; name subject to change) I will post this in sections so it will not be too long. I ask for your opinions and help in correcting any mistakes or conflicts...

-6000 A splinter/remnant of Ostoria has been in existence for several hundred years on the present day Thayan Plateau. The giants of this small realm are few in number and rule it with an iron hand. Despite constant pressure from numerous foes, the kingdom has persisted, due in large part to the huge numbers of minotaurs that serve the Giants as troops. A large population of gnolls are also used as cannon fodder by the giant rulers of the kingdom. There is constant fighting between the minotaurs and gnolls.

-5500 Due to attrition, the minotaur population has steadily declined, they now number seriously less than the gnolls that are there neighbors. Gnolls are gaining more prestige with giant rulers due to their larger numbers.

-5300 Ketor, a minotaur leader, gains notice of minotaurs and Giant Rulers alike, due to his large size, great wisdom and strength. Under his leadership the minotaurs are winning every battle they engage in for their giant masters. Ketor is alarmed by the cost (in lives)to his people. The gnolls cease hostilites, largely out of fear of Ketor's leadership.

-5295 Ketor appeals to his giant masters for a reprieve from the fighting. He asks for time for the minotaurs to rebuild strength. The giant Lords refuse and order him north to attack hobgoblin tribes. After they are killed or driven off the minotaurs are to attack into the Auldgloam and seize elven cities. The minotaurs will be the spearhead and the gnolls will follow behind to clean up.

-5294 Bound by his peoples oath of service to the Giant Kings of the realm, Ketor leads his people north and engages the hobgoblins. They win every battle, but the losses are higher than expected. The minotaur groups split over the casualties. Several large bands of minotaurs break their oaths and leave in the night. Eventually, these groups enter the Underdark to hide from their enemies and former masters. These minotaurs are referred to by the Ketoran Minotaurs as the "Shamed" and the event as the "Shame". The minotaurs as a fighting force are now greatly weakened.

-5293 Saddened by the schism in his people and further losses to the numerous (but retreating) hobgoblins, Ketor stops short of invading the Auldgloam. He claims he is taking time to regroup his forces and await the gnoll legions, but, actually, he has received a vision in his dreams; the minotaurs destruction is inevitable if they enter the Auldgloam. This vision is delivered by a bloodied and crippled human surrounded by a glowing light. Ketor secures his position and, with a few of his great warleaders, returns to the Thayan Plateau to report to his masters. He shares his vision with them and asks that his people be withdrawn from the attack on the elves. The giants are outraged, a fight ensues, Ketor's warleaders are killed and he is seriously wounded. Ketor escapes from the Giants Stronghold. He is close to death and collapses... The giant lords dispatch one of their own to take command of the minotaurs and proceeed with the attack on the Auldgloam.

more later...

ShadowJack
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 03 Apr 2006 :  02:29:03  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, to resurrect this concept...

I'm reading thru the Border Kingdoms section of Power of Faerūn. In my opinion, Qurth Forest is a good locale for our minotaur city-state (Ketorn, named after Ketor?). I'd put it inside the forest, and say that the reason no one knew of it was because the minotaurs followed a fairly isolationist policy. Other than gnomish farmers and minotaurs sent out to act as mercs, they kept their contact with the outside world to a minimum.

Another notation: after reading the article on Baphomet, I also like the idea of a religious schism. I'd say that sometime after fleeing the giants, a group of Baphomet worshippers started causing trouble, leading to a civil war. The Baphomet-followers lost, and either fled or were forced into the Underdark. The other group stuck around, becoming the city-state we're talking about.

It's even possible that the schism was brewing before the minotaurs fled the giant kingdoms. Ketor could have been mortally wounded in his victory over Baphomet's high priest, which became part of the legend that led to his deification.

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ShadowJack
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USA
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Posted - 04 Apr 2006 :  12:46:59  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow!
Awesome idea! The schism would account for the Underdark minotaurs and also Ketor's death! I just picked up Power of Faerun (which I had decided not to buy, until I heard there was Border Kingdom info in it...) I wondered how this would affect the minotaur idea... I like the idea of having them in the Qurth Forest. Their isolation is aided by gnomish illusion. Where was the article on Baphomet? I am eagerly awaiting more info from Ed on WotC website dealing with the Border Kingdoms. What better place to hire out minotaur mercenaries? If anyone is interested I will post the next segment of the timeline, with Wooly's new ideas incorporated. Let me know, I do not want to be a bore...

ShadowJack
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
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Posted - 04 Apr 2006 :  14:27:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack

Wow!
Awesome idea! The schism would account for the Underdark minotaurs and also Ketor's death! I just picked up Power of Faerun (which I had decided not to buy, until I heard there was Border Kingdom info in it...) I wondered how this would affect the minotaur idea... I like the idea of having them in the Qurth Forest. Their isolation is aided by gnomish illusion. Where was the article on Baphomet? I am eagerly awaiting more info from Ed on WotC website dealing with the Border Kingdoms. What better place to hire out minotaur mercenaries? If anyone is interested I will post the next segment of the timeline, with Wooly's new ideas incorporated. Let me know, I do not want to be a bore...



The Baphomet article was an issue or two ago in Dragon. The guy is so strongly associated with minotaurs that I wasn't comfortable excluding his influence... And we already know he's got minotaur worshippers in the Realms, which was another point in favor of including him.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7594 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2006 :  17:47:59  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You might also check out the vestiges in Pact Magic. There's some hint there that Thrym had something to do with the initial creation of Minotaurs. I think it even mentions Annam (book isn't here), so with that name it might be considered Canon.

Phillip aka Sleyvas

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Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2006 :  06:20:13  Show Profile  Visit Dhomal's Homepage Send Dhomal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello-

Aye - that forest would make a great location.

Another small tie-in - the write-up in PoF on Oeble includes a shopkeeper by the name of Thoele Raervrun who is a Damaran human fighter - who was enspelled into minotaur-form by a wizard a long time ago. Makes sense that a wizard might enspell someone into the shape of something 'different' that he may have seen recently - and if you postulate that Thoele has been in Oeble longer than he has been enspelled - and that since Oeble is near the Qurth Forest - this ties in quite well!

Dhomal

I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!

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