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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Feb 2006 : 04:38:11
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SPOILERS!
First, at the end of Elminster in Hell, when Mystra gives Halaster the golden fire to use on Asmodeus, what was that exactly? Was that a spell (and if so, what level?) or was it some new part of Mystra we haven't seen yet (for instance, a step higher than the silver fire the Chosen can wield)?
And second, I have heard that Elminster falling down into Avernus was NOT the same scenario during the Time of Troubles when Elminster fell into the portal after the destruction of the temple of Lathander. I have been led to believe that it is two different events. Is this true? If they are two seperate events, it would explain why Mystra/Midnight appeared in Avernus to rescue Elminster, that always stumped me when I thought they were the same event, because when Elminster fell into the portal after the temple of Lathander was destroyed, Midnight was still a mortal and the previous incarnation of Mystra was dead.
I hope somebody can shine some light on these questions for me.
Calrond
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2006 : 04:49:52
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I've no clue about the golden fire, but I can explain the other one.
Yes, El did not fall into Hell as chronicled in Elminster In Hell during the Time of Troubles; rather, he slipped into a portal while defending Shadowdale in the Return of the Archwizards trilogy. Note that this is from memory---I might have gotten small to large details wrong. |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2006 : 04:51:31
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Ah! That makes a lot of sense. I have the Return of the Archwizards books but I haven't read them yet. I'll certainly have to get around to it.
Calrond |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2006 : 18:52:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
Ah! That makes a lot of sense. I have the Return of the Archwizards books but I haven't read them yet. I'll certainly have to get around to it.
Calrond
What are you waiting for, it is a great trilogy, IMO. call in sick to work, settle down on your favorite chair and start reading my friend  |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 00:26:35
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I've heard it's a good one. Does anybody know anything about the "gold fire" that Halaster's spell put into Asmodeus to make him leave Elminster alone? Spell or something like silver fire? And does anybody know how Halaster's encounters with Mystra in Elminster in Hell have affected him in the time since?
Calrond |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 03:19:49
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Geez, I must be getting old and losing a few braincells in the process... because I do not recall Halaster fighting Asmodeus at all...
He might have come down to tear a new hole into that annoying devil prince that was toying with Elminster... but Asmodeus? really?  |
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At your Behest
Acolyte
Germany
46 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 03:48:34
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As far as I can remember Mystra "donates" Halaster's insanity to Asmodeus they do not fight.
It is only Mystra's part of honoring their agreement...
But do not take that for granted as it has been a while that I read the novel...
Cheers! |
Beware the beast man, for he is the Devil's pawn.
Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Yeah, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land.
Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, for he is the harbinger of death. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 22:56:25
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| Halaster does make an appearance in Elminster in Hell, attempting to assist the Simbul in rescuing Elminster I beleive. It has been a while since I have read it though. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 12:36:41
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I just finished this novel today and quite enjoyed it. I know a lot of people list it as their least favorite Elminster novel and I can understand how that many be.
I found the overall story to be quite drawn out and would be something which another author would take probably a single chapter over, but looking back, bunching all the events which occured in Asmodus together I enjoyed it. All of Elminster's memory scenes were great and full of Realms flavor. I enjoyed those most out of the whole novel. There were some great nasty scenes in Asmodus too and I quite liked Nergal. My only grumble was that he didn't come across quite right for me, he put up with Elminster messing him around too much  I also didn't like the usage of square brackets to describe brief actions. It felt wrong and more of something that would appear in a screenplay document than a novel.
Good novel though and much better than The Temptation of Elminster. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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veeps
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 08:12:28
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| Does anyone know in what year both Elminster in Hell and Eliminster's Daughter takes place? |
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gss_000
Acolyte
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 09:18:08
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Elminster in Hell 1372 DR
Elminster's Daughter 1373 DR
Hope that helps. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 16:04:34
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| I would love to know what happened in Baator after Asmodeus went hoo-haa. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 01:16:35
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| I actually found the "memories" in this novel to be far more engaging than the main plot...and that's not a bad thing, since it seemed like the memories took up more actual page space. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 11:34:30
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| So the general suggestion is to read the Return of the Archwizards trilogy before reading Elminster in Hell? |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 17:48:27
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The "memories" packaged up in an anthology and sold as such would have been great. Unfortunately they have no place in a novel entitled "Elminster in Hell".
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I actually found the "memories" in this novel to be far more engaging than the main plot...and that's not a bad thing, since it seemed like the memories took up more actual page space.
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 17:58:38
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| I agree with Rinonalyrna, the memory parts of the book were very entertaining where as the Hell bits held little interest for me. Mainly because action and fighting scenes in books does not interest me that much, but also because the short glimpses, at least to me, made it possible to give the scenes a focus they would lack in a larger story. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 18:07:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
So the general suggestion is to read the Return of the Archwizards trilogy before reading Elminster in Hell?
I would since I like things to be logical and in order. :)
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 01:20:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
So the general suggestion is to read the Return of the Archwizards trilogy before reading Elminster in Hell?
I would since I like things to be logical and in order. :)
Thanks Kuje! I try to get a hold on the Archwizards trilogy before reading El in Hell, if it doesn't take too long.... |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 01:34:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
The "memories" packaged up in an anthology and sold as such would have been great. Unfortunately they have no place in a novel entitled "Elminster in Hell".
Not sure I agree with that. :) I think Ed intended this novel to be a bunch of stories within a story. I have to say it was surprising, but in a good way. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 01:42:17
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| Elminster In Hell is probably my second favorite of the Elminster series. Elminster's Daughter is my favorite of the lot, then El in Hell, then probably Elminster in Myth Drannor, Making of a Mage, and finally my least favorite was probably the Temptation of Elminster, perhaps because I was waiting for one pivotal plot point in "Temptation" and it was more about how his attitude developed over time. |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 03:31:48
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El in Hell is my favorite FR novel. I had this to say a while back...
quote:
In the heart of a million devils and more, Mystra glared and slew, glared and slew.
A million devils?!?! I think this is the one and only time the figure "million" is used in the FR library. I had a fit when I read this scene. Only Greenwood could command such power in an FR novel.
Elminster in Hell is the most amazing, exciting, and (truly) ambitious novel of the entire FR library, and a warm pat on the back for any reader who has been following Elminster throughout his exploits.
The novel contains moments that are far beyond anything found in any other FR book. The Simbul and her Blood Ring, Halaster, Geryon, Asmodeus, and, of course, Mystra herself battling the minions of Hell...
I understand the dream sequences stray from the main plot line, and I do remember flipping ahead, asking myself, "Man, when do we get back to the hellish blood-letting?" Those memory sequences act as a wonderful pat on the back for any FR reader who has read all of Greenwood's books. It also makes sense at this point that we are given a glimpse of Elminster's mind, considering how Elminster is possibly insane, and even more so after the scouring of his mind. Elminster in Hell gives us a look at Elminster's inner thoughts, and it also lets us see his most prized memories. This is a wonderful thing for a character to give to us. The memory sequences have a purpose, and that purpose goes beyond the novel itself.
Elminster in Hell is epic, it's ambitious, it's simply amazing. It does something that NONE of the other FR novels do: it challanges the reader.
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"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 04 Jul 2006 03:36:19 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 03:45:52
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I didn't want the novel to end and wanted many, many more memories.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 03:51:06
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| Me too, especially how he interacted in the past with the other Chosen. I'd like to see more about the Elminster-Storm relationship. I had no idea that had gone on until I read it in El in Hell. |
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Curious about Elminster in Hell
