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ferratus
Acolyte
11 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 19:07:50
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This is a question that has been puzzling me for awhile. I realize the Bedine were originally created because "deserts need muslims". I also realize that 3e has tried to make sense of it by saying that they were magically transported via portals from Zhakara.
But why did the Bedine come to Anauroch in the first place? What is more, why did they come in such numbers that they were able to culturally dominate the native Netherese? It isn't like Anauroch is a particularly nice place to live. Hot in summers, bitterly cold in winters, and mostly cursed by the Phaerim so that nothing will ever grow there.
Did the Netherese once have Zhakaran slaves? Are they descended not from men, but rather by Janni genies? Did they follow an unknown prophet who they later killed when they realized what a Bhaal-spawned wasteland he (or she) led them all to?
Is there any information about this at all, or is it a mystery?
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 20:17:42
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| IIRC, they were fleeing something in the Zakharan desert they originated from, but I could be wrong. As for dominating the natives... what natives? When they arrived sometime less than 1000 years ago (sometime in the 800s DR is sticking in my head), there were no native humans in the desert, at least not in any significant numbers. |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2006 : 04:33:43
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It didn't make any sense to me either, so in my FR the Bedine are the descendents of the Survivor States that managed to accustomn themselves to desert life. While their dress and beliefs have been strongly influenced by the desert, they are more like the Freemen from the movie Dune than the Arab-like folk found in the sourcebooks and novels.
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 04:22:46
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| Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought that they were Zhakarans that intermarried with members of the Survivor States . . . otherwise where would they have come up with terms for gods that were worshipped not in Zhakara but in ancient Netheril? |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 06:11:03
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought that they were Zhakarans that intermarried with members of the Survivor States . . . otherwise where would they have come up with terms for gods that were worshipped not in Zhakara but in ancient Netheril?
According to Races of Faerun, you're right.
pg. 106
"The Bedine are nomads of Anauroch who migrated from Zakhara via a portal shortly after the fall of Netheril in -330 DR and intermingled with a handful of Netherese survivors. The Bedine retained the spoken language of their ancestors, Midani, but lost all knowledge of the written word. Centuries later, traders from the surrounding lands sought them out and introduces the alphabet of Thorass. The Bedine adopted the gods of the Netherese..."
Since they intermingled with a "handful of Netherese survivors" that would explain how they "culturally dominated the native Netherese", but as far as why they came to Anauroch in the first place...???? |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 17:01:49
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it definately seems that it was a bias of the game creators to put the Bedine there. It doesnt make sense to have a group of people live there especially in such a short amount of time (only 1500 years). The fact that they are named Bedine, so close to Bedouine, is just one example of how the game creators tried to satisfy their desire to have an arab population in the dessert.
Kinda cheesy! |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 19:34:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
it definately seems that it was a bias of the game creators to put the Bedine there. It doesnt make sense to have a group of people live there especially in such a short amount of time (only 1500 years). The fact that they are named Bedine, so close to Bedouine, is just one example of how the game creators tried to satisfy their desire to have an arab population in the dessert.
Kinda cheesy!
I'm more inclined to think that it's a coincidence. I seriously doubt that they were so concerned about making a similarity that they would make such an unsubtle parallel. They've not done that elsewhere; why would they do that with the Anauroch? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 19:46:40
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I think this was more a matter of Troy Denning wanting to come up with a Realmsian Lawrence of Arabia situation with Lander then with any overweaning desire to make sure every desert has an arabic culture. There were also indications in Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak's books that Turmish was going to be an Arabic culture as well, and as much as I enjoy their works, I'm glad that Vilhon Reach altered that view of Turmish.
Zhakara was made to be a counterpoint to Kara-Tur, and by default, like everything else, it got tacked onto the Realms, so it wasn't so much a Realms designer decided to make another Arabic culture, as TSR deciding to make an Arabic setting, then telling the FR people to figure out how it fits with Faerun.
I have to say that the designers actually did an excellent job trying to tie together a ton of cultures that were thrown at them, by explaining the genies in Calimshan, Zhakara, and the refugees that became the Bedine.
Of course, if you really want to get confused though . . . why was Semphar portrayed as an Arabic culture in the Horde boxed set? It broke off from Mulhorand (well, sort of), which was Egyptian in theme . . . ah well.
Keep in mind though, the real world many times isn't as simple as we think it is either. There were caucasian "barbarians" in some islands in what would eventually become Japan in the real world, and the Aryans that invaded India were germanic in decent, and were actually were the term that the later Germans would use to describe Germanic features, so you really do never know where certain nationalities will end up in the grand scheme of things.
We want this all to make sense from a game rule, planned campaign setting point of view, but as Mark Twain said, "Of course truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 21:43:13
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well hmm..
i think saying the creators did it just to have that population there is oversimplifying things. i just meant that arabic cultures are exotic and interesting to the American fantasy gaming market. Not only are the exotic and itneresting but htey are easy to understand just like any culture from earth. I think what my point was, was that I was dissappointed to see such real-world influence on an area that had potential to be the lands of a distinct faerunian civilization. The reason why the creators pulled the Arabic flavor into the Anuroch Desert seems to be bc it was easier than taking the time and developing a believable fantasy.
However, creating something unique is ridiculously difficult... and Arabic Cultures are fun to adventure in so there's not really a problem here! |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2006 : 06:29:59
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Keep in mind though, the real world many times isn't as simple as we think it is either. There were caucasian "barbarians" in some islands in what would eventually become Japan in the real world, and the Aryans that invaded India were germanic in decent, and were actually were the term that the later Germans would use to describe Germanic features, so you really do never know where certain nationalities will end up in the grand scheme of things.
Not to stray off topic, but it is inaccurate to refer to any of the Germanic peoples as "Aryan". The term Aryan is not native to any of the Germanic languages. The term Aryan appears to have been the tribal name of the earliest group of "Indo-Europeans" to migrate southeast out of the southern Russian steppes. The ruling caste of the Hindus, the "arya" take their name form this tribe, and the name of the nation state Iran also shares a common origin with the term.
In short, it describes some segment of *Eastern* Indo-European that existed some 6000 odd years ago. The Germanic culture was a descent of the Western branch of the I-E culture, evolving in southern Scandinavia as an amalgantion with indigenous tribes over the course of the later Stone Age and, moreso, the Bronze Age (1800 BC to 500 BC). The various Germanic tribes that came to occupy the area of modern day Germany did not begin to arrive until roughly 300 BC.
Interestingly, a word that is cognate to Aryan is found in the Gaelic tongue of Ireland, betraying not only the late arrival of the Celts to NW Europe (c.1500 BC), but also their origins in the far east. They came on the same wave of migration that laid the second layer of Greek culture, and left the Italic in it's wake.
Of equal curiousity is that in a period of 1000 years the Celts and Germanic tribes grew to have so much in common that the early Romans had a difficult time distinguishing them. |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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ferratus
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2006 : 15:04:20
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Okay, I'm assuming by the chatter thus far that the Bedine do not have an origin beyond their entry into Anauroch via portal.
Therefore, I'm going to put forth this history of the Bedine, based on what I have read in the Anauroch 2e product.
Essentially, the Bedine followed a prophet to a new chosen land. They arrived via portal, and started establishing themselves there. Unfortuneately, given that this place is a literal accursed wasteland, they quickly became disillusioned and buried the prophet up to his neck and left him alone in his promised land to die.
As a desert culture originally they managed to adapt (though this land was far harsher than their original homeland had been) and intermarried with the handful of Netherese survivors (who in turn taught them how to survive the winters). The origin's of the Bedine as one of the "three scattered tribes" refers to both the Netherese descendant states (Hlondeth, Asram and Aunaria) and to the Zhakaran scattered people (Calimshan, Aunaroch, Zhakara). This blended into a single whole due to the oral nature of the Bedine history. I also assume that the Bedine now assume that they have always been here, descendents of the powerful Netherese culture. |
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Why did the Bedine go to Anauroch?
