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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jan 2006 : 21:24:44
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I just got a hold of the Legacy of the Green Regent Module LGR22 As seconds slip away. ... and well I think Khelbhan has just become the realms Nevile Chamberlin. The Zhentarim have mustered an army in Llorkh with the intent of invading Loudwater!
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2006 : 21:59:59
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I am sure the Blackstaff disagrees 
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
On Khelben's thought re: Fzoul betraying their agreement--"Unlike your Lord Neville Chamberlain, I have multitudinous ways to wreak my displeasure upon Lord Chembryl, should he renege on his word. Nor am I so squeamish as to stay my hand if such should happen."
On Steven's thoughts---tiredsleepymustrestgobed
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2006 : 22:03:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
I am sure the Blackstaff disagrees
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
On Khelben's thought re: Fzoul betraying their agreement--"Unlike your Lord Neville Chamberlain, I have multitudinous ways to wreak my displeasure upon Lord Chembryl, should he renege on his word. Nor am I so squeamish as to stay my hand if such should happen."
On Steven's thoughts---tiredsleepymustrestgobed
The point is Fzoul clearly has RENEGED on their agreement |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2006 : 22:40:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I just got a hold of the Legacy of the Green Regent Module LGR22 As seconds slip away. ... and well I think Khelbhan has just become the realms Nevile Chamberlin. The Zhentarim have mustered an army in Llorkh with the intent of invading Loudwater!
Where can I get my hands on this? I'm not really familiar with Green Regent Modules, are they put out by WOTC or is Green Regent a publisher??? |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2006 : 23:00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I just got a hold of the Legacy of the Green Regent Module LGR22 As seconds slip away. ... and well I think Khelbhan has just become the realms Nevile Chamberlin. The Zhentarim have mustered an army in Llorkh with the intent of invading Loudwater!
Where can I get my hands on this? I'm not really familiar with Green Regent Modules, are they put out by WOTC or is Green Regent a publisher???
Legacy of the Green Regent is the official FR RPGA campaign
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frop/welcome |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2006 : 23:08:35
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| Speaking of this, where are the original details of this pact? I read about it in CoS:W and Steven's thread, but I can't find the original source... |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2006 : 23:20:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Speaking of this, where are the original details of this pact? I read about it in CoS:W and Steven's thread, but I can't find the original source...
Cloak and Dagger
Also check out Lords of Darkness: the Zhentarim under the allies section |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2006 : 23:55:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Cloak and Dagger
Also check out Lords of Darkness: the Zhentarim under the allies section
Ah, okay, so sections of tomes I haven't read yet.  |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 00:01:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Cloak and Dagger
Also check out Lords of Darkness: the Zhentarim under the allies section
Ah, okay, so sections of tomes I haven't read yet.
Just you wait until Alaundo gets home and reads that!  |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 00:10:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Just you wait until Alaundo gets home and reads that!
Too many books, so little time... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 00:42:05
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Do we know for a fact that Fzoul is behind it?
Also, the agreement stated in Cloak & Dagger did not concern the Zhentarim. It was followers of Xvim that it specified. Here's two quotes from that source (pages 11 and 10, respectively):
quote:
Strangest of all is the hidden agreement Fzoul strikes with Khelben the Blackstaff. In exchange for noninterference with each other's plans, the Xvimlar expansions are limited to south of the River Chionthar and east of the Thunder Peaks/Desertsmouth Mountains.
quote:
Khelhen and Fzoul meet in secret in Voonlar, where Khelben provides Fzoul with information about Lord Orgauth, and Fwul vows to limit the Xvimlar's expansion to the east of the Thunder Peaks for 10,000 days. (Only the two of them know of this arrangement until it is uncovered by the Harpers next year.)
It's a minor distinction, but an important one, I think.
Later sources, saying the deal concerned the Zhentarim, could be either mistaken or oversimplifying it...
I know that my opinion is not universal, but I'm not willing to think Fzoul is going to pull a fast one on Khelben and get away with it.
On another note, where can one get these modules? You sent me a few 6 months ago, but I'd like to be able to d/l them for myself -- and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 01:05:30
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I always tought those modules were not canon...  |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 04:12:53
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It could very well be argued that Fzoul has a very large loophole. Especially if his deal states Xvimlar expansion
After all the church of Xvimlar no longer exist!
Fzoul is the leader of the church of Bane and he could well say that his agreement with Blackstaff is no longer binding as the agreement doesnt mention the Church of Bane. I can see Fzoul doing this as it fits his alignment well, a LE person would use a loop holes o get out of an agreement
As for the arguement that Khelban would do something to Fzoul if he walked away from there deal. Blackstaff may find hes bitten off more than he could chew if he tries to bump off Fzoul. As he would probably end up in a fight with Bane himself (Sean Reynolds practically states this would happan in the Using Deities in the Forgotten Realms section of Deities does and Donts)
Blackstaff maybe a Chosen and but he would be no match for Bane and Fzoul
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 05:06:38
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I also think the loophole would be very fitting for Fzoul to take advantage of. I also don't think it would prompt Blackstaff to strike out against him. He knows how destructive a confrontation such as that would be.
Instead I would see Khelben putting the situation in the back of his mind and from now on remembering that the Chosen of Bane cannot be trusted. He could also set some Moonstars up to thwarting Zhent activity, which isn't very far fetched for a Harper-ish organization.
And as for Khelben taking on Fzoul/Bane.... I hope this thread doesn't turn into the mother of all verus threads. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 05:28:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
It could very well be argued that Fzoul has a very large loophole. Especially if his deal states Xvimlar expansion
After all the church of Xvimlar no longer exist!
Fzoul is the leader of the church of Bane and he could well say that his agreement with Blackstaff is no longer binding as the agreement doesnt mention the Church of Bane. I can see Fzoul doing this as it fits his alignment well, a LE person would use a loop holes o get out of an agreement
As for the arguement that Khelban would do something to Fzoul if he walked away from there deal. Blackstaff may find hes bitten off more than he could chew if he tries to bump off Fzoul. As he would probably end up in a fight with Bane himself (Sean Reynolds practically states this would happan in the Using Deities in the Forgotten Realms section of Deities does and Donts)
Blackstaff maybe a Chosen and but he would be no match for Bane and Fzoul
Yeah, but Mystra and Blackstaff would be a match for Bane and Fzoul...
But that's not the Blackstaff's style... And, as I've mentioned before, he's someone who will take the long view -- heck, he stole the Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings years (more than a decade!) before he did anything with it! I'd not be surprised to find out that Khelben has plots in place to make this blow up in Fzoul's face, not the other way around...
And remember, a deal goes two ways. Would Fzoul really throw 30 years of non-interference out the window for the sake of taking a single town? He can literally get away with murder, if he stays in his playground. Why lose that advantage?
Until I see something that says otherwise, I'm thinking Fzoul is not behind this.
And again, where can these modules be found? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 05:31:52
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| After reading Son of Thunder, I could see Geildarr being involved, though I'll not elaborate further for any that haven't read it yet. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2006 : 08:17:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yeah, but Mystra and Blackstaff would be a match for Bane and Fzoul...
But that's not the Blackstaff's style... And, as I've mentioned before, he's someone who will take the long view -- heck, he stole the Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings years (more than a decade!) before he did anything with it! I'd not be surprised to find out that Khelben has plots in place to make this blow up in Fzoul's face, not the other way around...
And remember, a deal goes two ways. Would Fzoul really throw 30 years of non-interference out the window for the sake of taking a single town? He can literally get away with murder, if he stays in his playground. Why lose that advantage?
Until I see something that says otherwise, I'm thinking Fzoul is not behind this.
And again, where can these modules be found?
The modules can be obtained from FLGS (LGR modules where distributed in those monthly packs gaming stores recieve)
If you have Emule you can get them from that as PDF files
Mystra would probably find herself in hot water if she bought into that fight. AO would more than likely step in have a go at her
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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ferratus
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 18:32:25
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The pact with Fzoul was to limit the activity of Fzoul's clergy (Xvim and Bane) rather than to put a quash on Zhentariam affairs. The agreement is not a legally binding one, but rather a simple agreement to stay out of each other's way. If Fzoul keeps his Zhentariam from cow-tipping in the North, Khelben won't send Moonstars to crawl up Fzoul's nether regions.
So the question is, what is Khelben up to? It seems awfully short sighted to limit the Banites but leave the Zhentariam loose. However, it is really quite simple.
With Fzoul's ascension over the core of the Zhentariam, Manshoon has been relegated to "member at large" and Semmenon has bolted. Fzoul's power is cheifly through the worshippers and clerics of Bane, the same type of people which are prevented from coming into Khelben's sphere of influence. What are the Zhentariam without the triumvirate ruling them? A splintered mass of petty magelords and warlords attempting to grab whatever peice of the action they can. The same type of people who Fzoul probably couldn't overtly control anyway. The Zhentariam in the North is probably more divided than it has ever been in its history.
The most tangible thing that Khelben gets out of this is the chaos of Darkhold. With Semenon gone, the Cyricists are left in control of this place, which will probably have 1 of 2 consequences.
1) The Cyricists will destroy themselves in an debacle of madness and infighting
2) The Cyricists will splinter Darkhold from Zhentariam control, causing the Zhentariam to bleed away their resources and men in the Western Heartlands.
Either way it is plus for Khelben and the other people of the North. As well, the Zhentariam at work without any religious overtones in the North (most notably the Anauroch Desert and the Silver Marches) are a minor problem compared to the Shades. If the Zhentariam have ambitions in the Sword Coast North and the Savage Frontier, they have to cross the Anauroch Desert through the Black Road, or circumnavigate it through the Stonelands. Either way, they are going to have to defend that route from the Shadovar, and seriously annoy that city state's resources and manpower.
Fzoul's rewards for the deal is that he gets to be top dog of the Zhentariam, and can concentrate on consolidating his power over the Moonsea, the Dales, Sembia, Cormyr, and Mintar. Of course, he still has to deal with the Harpers and the other adventuring heroes and Khelben is essentially relying on Elminster, Storm Silverhand, and the rabid ideologues of Twilight Hall to keep Fzoul in check outside of his influence. That is probably not something that these folk appreciate. So barred from Southern expansion by Elminster, the Harpers and the Dalesfolk, essentially Fzoul has to direct his energies West and North. In the west, he has to fight the shades. In the North, he will have a fight with the Vaasans, Nars and their General "Winter".
Of course, Elminster has prophecised that the current plots of Khelben will eventually lead to sorrow, though he also said that they were the will of Mystra. So we'll just have to see how this all unravels. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 20:04:07
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| City of Splendors: Waterdeep and Murry Leeder's book Son of Thunder both deal with, peripherally, the situation in Darkhold and Llork, so they are good sources to check out if you are curious about the situation. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 19:19:20
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| I seriously don`t believe that Fzoul is so stupid that he will violate his agreement with the Blackstaff. My impression of Fzoul is that he is an intelligent man. Surely he knows that Khelben is not to trifle with? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 11:23:33
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| If the Cyricist are behind this, I think the pact is still operational. After all, why would Fzoul throw it all away in a region that cyricist dominate, anyway? |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 12:20:32
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quote:
Originally posted by lowtech
If the Cyricist are behind this, I think the pact is still operational. After all, why would Fzoul throw it all away in a region that cyricist dominate, anyway?
Its not the Cyricists the Church of Bane in Orabar is also in on it and I dont see them fighting along side the Cyricists |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 21:28:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Speaking of which, will the events of Blackstaff change the terms of this agreement?
Why should they? Fzoul has no way of knowing about the events of that novel. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 21:36:38
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True.
Though one thinks that it would eventually come out.
That's spoiler territory though and not really able to be discussed. Suffice to say, it would deeply impact the stability of the city though. We should start a separate topic for that. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:39:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Speaking of which, will the events of Blackstaff change the terms of this agreement?
I wouldn't think so, or at least... not in the foreseeable future.
SPOILERS
Given Khelben's knack planning things in the long run, I'd imagine he's the type of guy whose had several contingencies in place for quite some time (in case of his death). These contingencies likely ensure that a "status-quo" of sorts remains for quite some time after his unfortunate departure.
To put it simply, Khelben would definitely plan ahead to ensure his own death wouldn't immediately disrupt any of his other long-term plans/agreements/pacts with others. He'd work to make life as stable as possible for his lady love, his apprentices, Waterdeep, and Tsarra herself, I'd imagine. |
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Pact with Fzoul blows up in Blackstaffs face
