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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 19:06:20
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Hi,
I run a evil-PCs campaign based in Waterdeep, my player's have finally decided to go for a visit of the infamous dungeon.
The average party level is 14th, and they have access to 7th level arcane & divine spells.
They go there mainly because their cleric (Bane) is looking for a crypt to retreive some remains and relics and bring them back to a newly built temple in the North.
I'm looking for ideas, suggestions to make this trip really interesting, mainly how to run it. I'm pretty sure they will try to use Invisibility + Windwalk to move around...
I have CoS, Ruins of undermoutain I, II and all the Dungeon crawl adventures.
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 19:35:40
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I'm currently running The Lost Level but hiked up to around 18th level so I'm somewhat in the same predicament as you. :)
I plan on making the encounter with Dhusarra really matter so I'm tweaking her stats out to around a CR 25.
quote:
I'm pretty sure they will try to use Invisibility + Windwalk to move around...
I'm sure Halaster has a nasty surprise for windwalking but can't think of anything right now. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2006 : 00:29:03
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We have had a few (mis)adventures within Halaster's halls in our high-level campaign... most of the time trying to stay alive, of course 
On the first level there is a tomb of a Banite priest, if my memory serves me. Why not use that, at least for one of the locations? In addition to this, our DM used that same chamber which, I think, was the room for the WoTC's "Design a room for Undemountain"-competition (or something like that). In his version, it was a temple to Myrkul, with a stone coffin with engraved words of wisdom (not an exact quote): "Defilers and treasure-hunters beware, for XXXX of Myrkul doesn't sleep". Needless to say, we opened that coffin, and fought the temple's former high priest ( a modified watchghost). Perhaps that same chamber would be a suitable former shrine to Bane in your campaign? Perhaps your characters would need to "desecrate" it again (some stupid adventurers have used too much holy water on the altar, etcetera ;)
If your players try using too many spells or too much magic in general, whether to move around or blast the halls apart, remember that it is Halaster's playground   Maybe they will encounter a giant-sized translucent head, frowning at the disapprovingly, and *poof* there goes the Wind Walk-spell... dispelled, leaving the characters sitting dazedly on the floor of a chamber, filled with nasty monsters  |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2006 : 00:34:24
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| Theres a Banite Crypt in Ruins of Undermoutain (I think its on level 1 or 2) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2006 : 04:52:32
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In fact, there are 2 (one on level 1 and one on level 2), that may explain the confusion
The relic will be a Rod of Clenched Fist (from a recent Dragon Magazine)
They have bought some maps at the Swords & Sextants in Skullport, that will surely help me run it. (I don't want to run 10 sessions of maze playing!)
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Iliphar1
Learned Scribe
Austria
133 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2006 : 14:59:21
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I don't think, that High Level Parties would have an easier time in the Undermountain. Just let them get lost for the first time and don't let them sleep. You'll quickly see them becoming more nervous.
A Beholder threat (somewhere close behind, but not close enough to fight) might do wonders, as would some mummies, especially if the party is not prepared. And at some point the party will run out of spells...
... did I mention that teleport, passwalls, etc. don't function in the Undermountain? |
'You see dead bones? ... I see an army!' Ezechiel 37 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2006 : 18:36:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Iliphar1
... did I mention that teleport, passwalls, etc. don't function in the Undermountain?
Except for the ones Halaster designed... His roaming portals and teleport traps can, in an instant, whisk someone from the (relative) safety of Level 1 to the depths of Level 7... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2006 : 18:42:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Except for the ones Halaster designed... His roaming portals and teleport traps can, in an instant, whisk someone from the (relative) safety of Level 1 to the depths of Level 7...
Yeah, I'll surely send them in a deeper level in this way, or in the lair of the old blue dragon on level 3
If anyone is interested, I could post the "conversion notes" I'll make for this part of my campaign. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 21 Jan 2006 18:44:09 |
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Iliphar1
Learned Scribe
Austria
133 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 00:48:53
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| Yeah, please note them, I would be very interested |
'You see dead bones? ... I see an army!' Ezechiel 37 |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 02:25:14
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| I was always under the impression that Undermountain was a threat to anyone who wasn't Halaster, and even then he's a threat to himself. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 02:30:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I was always under the impression that Undermountain was a threat to anyone who wasn't Halaster, and even then he's a threat to himself.
It's easy to kill them all in Undermoutain, yeah, but more difficult to run it smootly, not a boring "endless dungeon crawl...".
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 04:25:58
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quote:
Yeah, I'll surely send them in a deeper level in this way, or in the lair of the old blue dragon on level 3
You do know she fled the coop during Halaster's Higharvestide, though, right?
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 04:42:28
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
You do know she fled the coop during Halaster's Higharvestide, though, right?
--Eric
 No, it's in Dungeon Crawl : Stardock ? I probably missed it..
It was the only big dragon in there, or I missed one?
And while you are looking here, can you explain us how you think that Halaster's Heirs should be incorporated? I've read it carefully twice in CoS, but I find it hard to grasp how it should "works".
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 06:00:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
You do know she fled the coop during Halaster's Higharvestide, though, right?
--Eric
No, it's in Dungeon Crawl : Stardock ? I probably missed it..
You can download it for free from the Wizards downloads page.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 06:07:33
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Tell your players to watch out for roaming beholders... yes: they were on the random encounter table... in groups of 1d4 if I remember... ah, how easy monsters were in 2nd edition!  |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 06:25:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Tell your players to watch out for roaming beholders... yes: they were on the random encounter table... in groups of 1d4 if I remember... ah, how easy monsters were in 2nd edition!
They survived from a encounter with a Death Tyrant (tunnels going down to Skullport) and later a cavern with 6 Gauths (under the Rat hills) and finally with a Doomsphere in the sewers !
But they really hate to fight those... even if they really want to kill the worst of them (The Eye - The Xanathar). |
Edited by - Skeptic on 23 Jan 2006 06:26:24 |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 13:38:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Tell your players to watch out for roaming beholders... yes: they were on the random encounter table... in groups of 1d4 if I remember... ah, how easy monsters were in 2nd edition!
I wish beholders could make a dent in my group, as it is for me they're just cannon fodder. |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 16:27:54
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| How many levels are there in Undermountain. I have never played it, but i have some of the levels... How many of the levels are buyable alone? Do you have to buy the box to get it all? |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 16:32:47
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Try layering the attacks on the party, don't give them much time to rest and recover.
If you really want to piss them off, have a group of orcish adepts and rangers summon a couple of rust monsters into their midst. Fling a jar full of rot grubs, and fire arrows dipped in green slime.
Armor goes, they have to concentrate on digging out rot grubs and getting rid of green slime. And while all of this is going on, you have a dozen berzerkers slamming them with non ferrous weapons, and the adepts hammering them with spells.
Have another wandering monster group be attracted by the noise...say a couple of slaad of the appropriate color. Nothing like a three way fight with the PC's in the middle. |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 16:37:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
Try layering the attacks on the party, don't give them much time to rest and recover.
If you really want to piss them off, have a group of orcish adepts and rangers summon a couple of rust monsters into their midst. Fling a jar full of rot grubs, and fire arrows dipped in green slime.
Armor goes, they have to concentrate on digging out rot grubs and getting rid of green slime. And while all of this is going on, you have a dozen berzerkers slamming them with non ferrous weapons, and the adepts hammering them with spells.
Have another wandering monster group be attracted by the noise...say a couple of slaad of the appropriate color. Nothing like a three way fight with the PC's in the middle.
Hm. You're evil, I like you. |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 23:10:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_Man
quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
Try layering the attacks on the party, don't give them much time to rest and recover.
If you really want to piss them off, have a group of orcish adepts and rangers summon a couple of rust monsters into their midst. Fling a jar full of rot grubs, and fire arrows dipped in green slime.
Armor goes, they have to concentrate on digging out rot grubs and getting rid of green slime. And while all of this is going on, you have a dozen berzerkers slamming them with non ferrous weapons, and the adepts hammering them with spells.
Have another wandering monster group be attracted by the noise...say a couple of slaad of the appropriate color. Nothing like a three way fight with the PC's in the middle.
Hm. You're evil, I like you.
I have played with seriously experienced powergamers who have used the WOTC character optimization boards. That combo I just related knocked them all down a peg or three and made them fear what they called "crunchies". |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2006 : 16:03:01
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Does the big cavern in the south part of level 1 has been detailed somewhere? I found nothing...
Also, from the description in CoS, do you understand that Halaster'Heirs occupy some already existant rooms or that they have extended the first level ?
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Firhyanda
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2006 : 22:39:31
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Greetings
The big cavern in the south part of level 1 has been detailed over on the WOTC web sight see Return to Undermountain cavern part1. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 01:29:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_Man
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Tell your players to watch out for roaming beholders... yes: they were on the random encounter table... in groups of 1d4 if I remember... ah, how easy monsters were in 2nd edition!
I wish beholders could make a dent in my group, as it is for me they're just cannon fodder.
   Beholders as cannon fodder? Your party must either be high-level, or very well optimized (or perhaps both?)
Our 15th level party is still terrified to face beholders - you just can't get those saving throws high enough to feel completely invulnerable |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 01:46:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Beholders as cannon fodder? Your party must either be high-level, or very well optimized (or perhaps both?)
Our 15th level party is still terrified to face beholders - you just can't get those saving throws high enough to feel completely invulnerable
They are all level 17. They sailed through an encounter with an elder orb, his two bodyguards and a deathkiss flanked by 4 eyeballs. After I rehinged my jaw I just shrugged and moved on to the next encounter (shoulda put another 10 levels of sorcerer on the elder orb...live and learn). The the upcoming encounter with Dhussara will not be so easy.
I'm actually doing an audit on their characters to see how they match up with the standards set in the 3.5 DMG and so far the most powerful character is below what he should be a a few 10K. They're just really good, work well together and have a good party mix of diverse character abilities. |
Edited by - Mystery_Man on 31 Jan 2006 01:48:41 |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 13:20:16
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Quick update on the Lost Level.
Sure enough, one of my players sat in "the chair" and got stuck there. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 14:00:08
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Faramicos, Undermountain has:
9 main levels, of which only the first three have been published, in Ruins of Undermountain (though Ed at least partially designed the rest 20+ years ago)
at least a dozen sublevels, of which several have been published in the DUNGEON CRAWL modules, Ruins of Undermountain II, and online.
Mystery_Man: In the the Realms, beholders aren't pushovers. In my campaign, that in-world fact takes precedence over fetishist rules-purism, so if playing them smarter didn't work I'd happily just give them extra hit points or whatever on the fly in order to achieve the Realms-authentic result, without penalizing good play (though I would ruthlessly penalize min/maxing, should I have foolishly agreed to DM for such players). |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2006 : 00:52:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Mystery_Man: In the the Realms, beholders aren't pushovers. In my campaign, that in-world fact takes precedence over fetishist rules-purism, so if playing them smarter didn't work I'd happily just give them extra hit points or whatever on the fly in order to achieve the Realms-authentic result, without penalizing good play (though I would ruthlessly penalize min/maxing, should I have foolishly agreed to DM for such players).
Since you don't know me at all or my players I'll put it in a nutshell for you...
As a party, and because of the fact that beholders are so prevalent in the Realms and they've have had to deal with them many times before they are very experienced with them. Some of them have actually died because of a beholder so, they've paid their dues. Plus they're EL 17 (now 18) and a beholder out of the box is really almost one per PC to even make it interesting. I'm certainly not going to punish them for playing well, I actually reward that sort of thing. You had better believe that if the tide of battle had turned the other way I would show no mercy. And really, compared to what's coming up for them beholders are the least of their worries.
Suffice it to say my players don't "min/max" though they are thoughtful with their character creation and advancement, that's part of the game. They can either do very well or almost get wiped out depending on the foe and on how well thought out their strategy is or how well prepared they are. That's part of the game too.
As an aside, the worst opponent they or I firmly believe any party can face is a human, (and how well my players know this) with monsters you sort of know what to expect but with humans they can pull just about anything. |
Edited by - Mystery_Man on 10 Feb 2006 02:47:43 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2006 : 01:38:55
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| I wasn't casting aspersion on your campaign, just using what you said as a starting point of discussion. Sorry, I should have made that clearer. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2006 : 02:42:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
I wasn't casting aspersion on your campaign, just using what you said as a starting point of discussion. Sorry, I should have made that clearer.
Oh I understood that, I was merely explaining the situation as to make it clear that no, I do not make light of beholder encounters. That and my players are a handful. There are times when I debate with myself whether or not to kill them all and start over. The PC's not my actual players. Those are hard to find.
p.s. I have no idea how that face thingy got on my original reply. Normally I just use smileys or saddys. Must have clicked something...anyhow it's removed. |
Edited by - Mystery_Man on 10 Feb 2006 02:48:43 |
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Going to Undermoutain with a high-level party
