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 Where do halflings come from (other than mom)?
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2006 :  16:29:02  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I have a question, just a quick one that may have no real official answer. Looking over some OLD D&D information, I ran across a reference in Mystara material that refers to halflings as "hin," and to my knowlage this predates the use of the term in the Forgotten Realms. I was just wondering if this was just a name that was pinned on to give halfings a more dignified racial identity, or if this was meant to imply that some of the halfling population migrated from Mystara.

scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1615 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2006 :  18:52:15  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had never seen the reference to the "Hin" until the release of 3E FRCS and other 3E material. I will go and look through all of my old 2E stuff though to see if there are any references.

"Yap,yap, little dog!" - Riven - page 326 Shadowbred, by Paul Kemp

_________________________

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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore

USA
1291 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2006 :  20:00:48  Show Profile  Visit Gray Richardson's Homepage Send Gray Richardson a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed Greenwood wrote the definitive halfling sourcebook for Mystara: The Five Shires Gazeteer in 1988. It might have been Ed himself who was responsible for introducing the name Hin to Mystara.
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KnightErrantJR
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USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2006 :  20:04:24  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That may indeed make sense . . .
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Faraer
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3308 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2006 :  20:44:22  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's certainly the case. Happened that 'hin' cropped up in Ed's GAZ8 The Five Shires (which is the best and fullest reference on Realms halflings, despite not being set in the Realms) before it did in published Realmslore.

Edited by - Faraer on 07 Jan 2006 20:45:35
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KnightErrantJR
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USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2006 :  21:40:51  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll have to see if I can scrounge that up. I have some old Karemeikos information, because my first campaign was (nominally) set there, so it was for nostalgia sake. When I noticed the hin thing, it got me to wondering.
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Dalor Darden
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USA
4029 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2012 :  06:53:27  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
<Casts Rez Scroll>

Ok...anyone know where Halflings are supposed to originate in the Forgotten Realms?

Are there any hard dates for them?

Shamefully, I know almost NOTHING about the halfling nation of the south...except that they have pointed ears as opposed to the rounded ears of the north halflings.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Hawkins
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USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2012 :  15:40:50  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

<Casts Rez Scroll>

Ok...anyone know where Halflings are supposed to originate in the Forgotten Realms?

Are there any hard dates for them?

Shamefully, I know almost NOTHING about the halfling nation of the south...except that they have pointed ears as opposed to the rounded ears of the north halflings.

Have you read the halfling entries in the 3e FRCS, RoF, or 3e SS (and I assume 2e SS)? Though I do not know if any of those really cover the origin of Realmsian halflings, I think they all give some history of Luiren, the halfling nation. Also, where did you pick up the piece of lore about southern halflings having pointed ears and northern halflings having rounded ears? I do not remember reading that anywhere (though I very well may have and then forgot it).

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

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Sightless
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USA
608 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2012 :  15:45:40  Show Profile Send Sightless a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If it's true, then they were trying to capitalized on both halfling lore at once. The halflings as Elderian, as in the Gremstard, and the more English description of them.

We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.

Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all.
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Dalor Darden
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4029 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2012 :  16:49:39  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Old Grey Box, Page 48 of the Cyclopedia of the Realms:
quote:

...Halflings come in all shades and with the same variety of hair and eye color as men...There seem to be no racial sub-groups of Halflings, though to the far south there is said to be a nation of the creatures, called Lurien, whose inhabitants have pointy ears...



EDIT:

Interesting that in the first Forgotten Realms setting, there were not even Stouts or Tallfellows!

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 06 Jun 2012 17:20:41
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Hawkins
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USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2012 :  17:10:45  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Old Grey Box, Page 48 of the Cyclopedia of the Realms:
quote:

...Halflings come in all shades and with the same variety of hair and eye color as men...There seem to be no racial sub-groups of Halflings, though to the far south there is said to be a nation of the creatures, called Lurien, whose inhabitants have pointy ears...


Interesting. I know that the sub-races thing got changed in 3.x. There are ghostwise (mostly barbarian), lightfoot (PHB), and strongheart (give up +1 to all saves for bonus feat at 1st level) sub-races mentioned in both the FRCS and RoF. Lightfoot are mostly what are seen in the north, while ghostwise and strongheart are found in the south.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Sightless
Senior Scribe

USA
608 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2012 :  17:26:33  Show Profile Send Sightless a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Old Grey Box, Page 48 of the Cyclopedia of the Realms:
quote:

...Halflings come in all shades and with the same variety of hair and eye color as men...There seem to be no racial sub-groups of Halflings, though to the far south there is said to be a nation of the creatures, called Lurien, whose inhabitants have pointy ears...



EDIT:

Interesting that in the first Forgotten Realms setting, there were not even Stouts or Tallfellows!



From the Norce lore, they were orginally Faykin, and very good and kind. Although I think Gnomes kind of have taken over the concept at least in 4e. At least from what I've heard.

We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.

Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all.
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Jorkens
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Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2012 :  17:38:16  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As far as I remember there are no references to anything like the hobbit/halfling in Norse lore or myths; they are more correctly Tolkiens idealized (and to a degree patronizing)view of the rural populace of England put into fantasy.

I dont have the books here right now; were the halfling subraces found in the 1st ed. at all?

No Canon, more stories, more Realms.

Edited by - Jorkens on 06 Jun 2012 17:40:20
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Faraer
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3308 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2012 :  17:44:15  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, they appeared in the Monster Manual.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2012 :  18:32:24  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The very first appearance of halings in the Realms was in Calimshan - they were brought to Faerūn by the Djen during The Great Arrival in -7800 DR.

In -6000 DR, 'Hin' (that exact word is used) are first sptotted in Luiren.

The Djen came from Zakhara, and Luiren is just north of Zakhara. Conclusion: Halflings are native to Lands of Fate (when a desert halfling tells you he'd like to have you for dinner, DON'T except!!!)

Homebrew:
The original Hin are offshoot of Ling and Human crossbreeding. 'Ling' is an oriental/K-T term for a group of creatures scholars refer to as 'fauns', or even 'Urchins'. They are fey, and are the progenitors to such creatures as Satyrs & Korred, and other such creatures. This information is completely unknown on most prime worlds, and Halflings will adamantly deny they "half of anything', and refuse to except they have either a human or fey heritage.

Djen kept humans and some fey* as slaves in the old Zakharan empires (pre-dating anything known today). The humans were primarily houshold servants, and the fey were used to maintain the Djen's domains to their liking. The genies both encouraged and forced their slaves to interbreed, to create new and interesting creatures (this is a habit they picked-up from their own former masters, the Rakshasa... but thats another tale). In time, several different offshoots emerged from this program, half-lings amongst them. This is something that happened sometime after -16,000 and before -10,000 DR (that gives about 6000 years to breed new species). If a Sage (in-setting) came to these same conclusons they would most likely be hit in the head by the nearest halfling, who will take grave offense to such 'accusations'. Sadly, their own creation myths hide the truth - they are truly made from parts of all the other races.

I developed this lore for the Utter East project, uniting the histories of all three campaign areas (four if you count the Hordelands separately). It was also designed to explain many of the races we have in Faerūn (and why the Dwarves fled the Yehimals).


*fey, NOT Fey - there is a difference. 'Fey' with a capitol is the Creator race (the LeShay, for all intents and purposes). In my own HB world material, I differentiate 'fey' as a the group, and 'Fay' as the fey nobility (the Shidh - of which there are two main branches, the Shee and the Sith - that from The Shadowrift). 'Fae' (or Fę) is the common language of all fey. Although all of this sounds the same to the human ear, fey can tell the subtle difference - fey are natural empaths, and many of their words are differentiated by the 'emotional undertone'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 06 Jun 2012 19:00:52
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