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 Son of Thunder: Chapters 10 - 14
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Alaundo
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Posted - 31 Dec 2005 :  18:37:32  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage  Click to see Alaundo's MSN Messenger address Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Well met

This is a Book Club thread for Son of Thunder, book 3 of the Fighters series, by Murray Leeder. Please discuss chapters 10-14 herein:

Alaundo
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KnightErrantJR
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USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2006 :  02:43:13  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It was nice to see Amelior mentioned. I liked that Paul Jaquays used his own unique mouthpice for FR4, since I think it was following in Ed's footsteps. It really helped FR4 to stand out among the early sourcebooks. I just hope Amelior and Erek are all right, considering the last time I heard anything of them was in the 1st edition Lords of Darkness, exploring a Sarukh mummies' tomb (and we know the mummy is still around).

I enjoyed the fact that the Antiquarians really are friends as well as associates and they were shocked and devastated by the loss of their comrades due to Leng's actions adn Geildarr's manipulations. Assuming that Geildarr did come up with these little plots and double crosses and Ardeth isn't just playing everyone for the fool, Geildarr just might be learning a bit more from his Zhentarim superiors than Leng gave him credit for.

Speaking of Ardeth, I am really starting to wonder not just who, but what she is. Moritz seemed to indicate that she is not only playing everyone, but that she is concealing something much more fundamental. I also wonder if her spellcasting is due to any training or if she is manifesting a natural spell like ability that she may have . . .

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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darkcrow
Learned Scribe

USA
269 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2006 :  08:08:19  Show Profile  Visit darkcrow's Homepage Send darkcrow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I caught that too. Moritz, the master of illusion, mentions that he can see right through hers (in a matter of speaking). She might be one of those dopplegangers. In the begginning of the book there was the mentioning of the Shade and seeings she knows her way around the shadow realm fairly well.... I like the Antiqurians. Thier alignment doesn't seem Evil though, more like Neutral. Leng finally went down but he took three Antiqurians with him. Kellin finds out about her father's betrayl and tells Vell, which takes the bad news fairly well. Keirkrad,s change of heart for Kellin was truly a shock and I have a bad feeling that the bad news about her father is going to leak. Keirkrad gets captured by the werebats and finds out the leader is an old rival. Keirkrad gets bitten so he might have a chance of becoming a werebat himself. But not uncurable if caught on time. It seems Vell has to leave him behind cause he finds out through the memory pools that Zhentarim dogs are heading in the same direction with the axe they left in the Fallen Lands. So it's a race to the finish. So it looks like it's all up to Lanaal to save Keirkrad. Before finish my post I would like to raise my mug of Dwarven Holy Water in honor Vonelh, Bessick and Nithinial of the Antiquarians. They died a warriors death and took Zhentarim scum with them. May your song be sung till the end of time.

May Tymora smile upon ye
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KnightErrantJR
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5402 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2006 :  10:37:02  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, when they showed so much deference to Mythkar Leng when they were first introduced, I had assumed they might be a bit more malevolent, but as it turns out, they just seemed to be cultured enough to show respect to a highly placed priest. Definately a solidly neutral adventuring group there. But I still like whenever an author reinforces adventuring companies as a facet of how thigs work in the Realms, so I enjoyed thier inclusion quite a bit.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author

Canada
222 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2006 :  05:23:02  Show Profile  Visit Murray Leeder's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, it was a regret of the mine that I had to deal the Antiquarians such harsh fates, if only because I want to write them more. Who knows, there may be some way to explore their earlier escapables.

Edited by - Murray Leeder on 21 Jan 2006 15:47:18
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darkcrow
Learned Scribe

USA
269 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2006 :  07:07:28  Show Profile  Visit darkcrow's Homepage Send darkcrow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope so. That sure would be great to see them in all thier glory. If anything you can write a short story. Other than reading the great stories I love the artist's touch on the covers. They always do an extraodanary job on capturing the most intense scene in the story. Everytime I read a book, I try to find the scene on the cover. In this story the cover scene takes place when Vell steps out of the protective globe of silence and changes to his (part) behemoth form and takes on the werebats solo. I love that part. I don't know if the artist choose that scene himself, You, or WotC did, either way it was an excellent choice.

May Tymora smile upon ye

Edited by - darkcrow on 21 Jan 2006 07:25:16
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author

Canada
222 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2006 :  15:43:47  Show Profile  Visit Murray Leeder's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, I love the cover art (though I envisioned more the behemoth scales coating the existing contours of Vell's body, rather than him becoming all bony and pointy, but small difference, really). My editor, Susan Morris, contacted me asking what scene I'd prefer for the cover -- it had to be an action scene featuring my protagonist. I gave a couple of options, and they went with that one. It was also the excerpt used in Realms of the Dragons II.
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Beezy
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USA
280 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2006 :  18:14:34  Show Profile  Visit Beezy's Homepage  Send Beezy an AOL message Send Beezy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really liked the cover at as well. I had noticed that there was never a discription about the scales being spikey. I also always try to place the cover scene in with a novel. What other scenes had you selected as options for the cover? I think the battle with the Ravens would have been a nice cover as well. Or possibly included Sungar or Thluna holding Berun's axe as well with Vell in his altered state.

It was a shame that Leng took three of the Antiquarians down with him. That man had some serious issues! I would definitely be interesting in reading of some of the Antiquarian's early adventures or treasures they had uncovered.
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author

Canada
222 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2006 :  23:37:29  Show Profile  Visit Murray Leeder's Homepage  Reply with Quote
All of those scenes might have done well. I do like the werebats though. I like that a seldom scene monster that gets some play in this book appears on the cover. Funny to think that the monsters on my two books so far have been ice mephits and werebats, things that fly.
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2006 :  05:36:24  Show Profile  Visit Dhomal's Homepage Send Dhomal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello-

I am still greatly enjoying the book! Great job!

My only thought for improvement in reading through it is - Maybe I should keep a note pad handy so that I can make notes of things that I would like to comment on here!

I *knew* that there was *something* that I had wanted to say - but could not remember. So - I started reading and due to the conversation about the werebats - remembetred what it was!

I completely admire you for coming up with a new use of the Silence 15' radius spell!!! (or silence - whatever its called these days!)

I always like seeing new ways to use spells - and this is Definately one of them. I especially like that you make it clear that there are drawbacks to some spells sometimes. Very convincing in being real!

Well - back to the book!

Dhomal

I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!

Successfully traded with Xysma!
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darkcrow
Learned Scribe

USA
269 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2006 :  06:43:54  Show Profile  Visit darkcrow's Homepage Send darkcrow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love that too about these books. I'm the DM in my gaming group and I always get some great ideas from reading these Frogotten Realms books. For example: in the book Wyvern Spur when Olive Ruskettle opens that stolen purse and sets off that spell trap that polymorphs her into a donkey, I can't wait to use that in an adventure.

May Tymora smile upon ye
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author

Canada
222 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2006 :  23:00:43  Show Profile  Visit Murray Leeder's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Dhomal, and darkcrow. That use of silence was something that came to me when I was writing that sequence, and I just pursued it to its logical conclusion. I'm glad you think it worked.
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Lord Rad
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 05 Feb 2006 :  11:18:16  Show Profile  Visit Lord Rad's Homepage  Click to see Lord Rad's MSN Messenger address Send Lord Rad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fantastic!!!

The whole scene around the Unicorn Run was very well done. I felt terrible sadness at the slaughter of the fey and was gritting my teeth for Leng to get what he deserves. I loved how the unicorns and other creatures of the forest came to combat the threat. It was beautiful how the river itself purified itself after Leng's attempt to corrupt it.

Great when Ardeth and company turned on Leng, who was so intent on causing destruction that he was almost insane with it. I really liked how the other "evil" beings in the party were starting to question the need to destroy the place and that evil\bad as they may be, they still respected the beauty of the place and didn't agree with Leng's actions.

Good ridance, Leng! He goes into my list of villains I love to hate (along with Ghost from Night Masks)

Lord Rad

"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"

Edited by - Lord Rad on 05 Feb 2006 11:19:26
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Lord Rad
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Posted - 05 Feb 2006 :  19:09:40  Show Profile  Visit Lord Rad's Homepage  Click to see Lord Rad's MSN Messenger address Send Lord Rad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm just reading more of the book at the moment but wanted to post quickly just to say how I enjoyed the tie-in with the Rage and how Ardeth and company spot the green dragon flying overhead towards the Star Mounts (sorry, I never was very good with dragon names ) and how they were all very much aware of the Rage taking place. Bad news spreads fast!

Murray, is this dragon one which is detailed in any FR products? Was it included in Ed's Wyrms of the North articles or anywhere?

Lord Rad

"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
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Posted - 05 Feb 2006 :  19:12:50  Show Profile  Visit Lord Rad's Homepage  Click to see Lord Rad's MSN Messenger address Send Lord Rad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Again, I was happy to read of another subtle snippet of information from other Realms novels - being the mention of the deep dragon who lairs in the dwarven ruins and had feld Ched Nasad following it's destruction (from War of the Spider Queen).

Excellent! It's little things like this that really work for me. In my opinion, authors should do more of this when writing in shared worlds. It brings it more alive when novel events feature in other novels. This is often the case with Dragonlance, but FR novels have been quite independant of each other, with perhaps only the events from the Avatar Trilogy being the ones which get the odd mention.

Lord Rad

"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author

Canada
222 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2006 :  19:13:58  Show Profile  Visit Murray Leeder's Homepage  Reply with Quote
While I enjoy creating shaded villains who operate from understandable positions and are even a little sympathetic (as I hope Geildarr is to a degree). But with Leng, I decided early on that he'd just be nasty and unredeemable, and get an appropriately grisly fate. It was also the first time I'd ever killed an "established" character (though Leng was little more than a name in a couple of sourcebooks), something one isn't always allowed to do, though I'm glad I got the go-ahead in this case.
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Lord Rad
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Posted - 05 Feb 2006 :  19:16:59  Show Profile  Visit Lord Rad's Homepage  Click to see Lord Rad's MSN Messenger address Send Lord Rad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Murray Leeder

While I enjoy creating shaded villains who operate from understandable positions and are even a little sympathetic (as I hope Geildarr is to a degree). But with Leng, I decided early on that he'd just be nasty and unredeemable, and get an appropriately grisly fate. It was also the first time I'd ever killed an "established" character (though Leng was little more than a name in a couple of sourcebooks), something one isn't always allowed to do, though I'm glad I got the go-ahead in this case.



Well I was surprised to see Leng bite the dust, to be honest. Oh he deserved it alright, but I first expected him to last right through. His actions against the Unicorn Run had me more than happy at his death however

So Leng is an established character not of your own design? Interesting. Which sourcebook is he detailed in? I'm eager to read up on him

Lord Rad

"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author

Canada
222 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2006 :  19:40:01  Show Profile  Visit Murray Leeder's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Leng is mentioned in The Savage Frontier, The North and possibly Volo's Guide to the North as well. If there are any other mentions I've missed them, but as I said, in none of those is he given much detail. Other established characters in Son of Thunder (not counting Sungar and Thluna whom I invented for "The Fallen Lands") include Geildarr, Keirkrad, Heskret, Gundar and all of the Tree Ghost characters including Rask Urgek (who appeared on wizards.com).

Edited by - Murray Leeder on 06 Feb 2006 00:42:54
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author

Canada
222 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2006 :  00:05:09  Show Profile  Visit Murray Leeder's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad

I'm just reading more of the book at the moment but wanted to post quickly just to say how I enjoyed the tie-in with the Rage and how Ardeth and company spot the green dragon flying overhead towards the Star Mounts (sorry, I never was very good with dragon names ) and how they were all very much aware of the Rage taking place. Bad news spreads fast!

Murray, is this dragon one which is detailed in any FR products? Was it included in Ed's Wyrms of the North articles or anywhere?



Oops, missed this post and the one below it. Elaacrimalicros wasn't in Wyrms of the North I don't think but has been mentioned occasionally in sources on the Star Mounts (maybe first in The North). It was he who destroyed the aarakocra colony up there and has earned the eternal emnity of the birdmen.

The deep dragon Onskarrard, late of Ched Nasad, was mentioned in Lost Empires of Faerun. I had written a little spiel for Gunton on some of the other dragons of the Star Mounts (Inferno, Grimnosh), but it got cut, probably justly. There's a point where these little Realmslore tie-ins start to sound like mouthing sourcebook material.
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