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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 00:37:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by THO in Ed's 2004 thread
It's very important that gamers not follow their real-world (usually monotheistic) thinking when considering Faerunian situations: the Realms is pantheistic, and "everyone knows" ALL the gods (at least of one's own race) "really exist." Unlike our real world, there's no denying that the folk praying to another god next door aren't just as correct as "we" are, because often "we" will also be praying to that other deity soon (if only for appeasement). The faith lies in believing this or that personal, dream-vision-induced, or priestly interpretation of the deity's will or intentions or prohibitions, not in believing the god exists.
One of my player is asking me what exactly you mean by “everyone knows” and “really exist” ?
There is a subtle difference with “knows” and “everyone in the world believe”, what is the most correct one for describing it ? (Ex. “Earth is flat, Earth is round”). If it’s the first, which proofs are shown to them to make them knows ?
Let’s say it’s prayers' visibles effects: knowing that with spells, a wizard could mimic easily many “divine powers” (like raising dead with a Wish); wouldn’t it be possible for common folks to think that there is no Gods and only “wizards who thinks are doing faith-based miracles” ?
Let’s say it’s ToT : Some would argue that seeing Gods walking the land was the ultimate proof, but I doubt Ed were taking it into account in this answer. In the opposite case, it means that the relationship between mortals and Gods really changed during this RSE, if it’s the case, I would like to hear Ed about it.
Again, answers provoke more questions: are there any religions which flat-out deny the divinity of some other "deity"? For example, does the Church of Lathander flatly state that Orcus is not a deity, whether he can grant spells to his clerics or not? Perhaps a deeper question would be: are there "Powers" who are active on Faerun who do not have access to Cynosure because they aren't "real" gods? (My question doesn't take into account Cyric and Bane and Iyachtu and all of the troubles they have had with each others' "genuineness;" Cyric, we know, thinks that he is the only One True God, but Cyric ... has issues....) |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 00:55:42
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Well met, Ed and Lady Hooded One!
The Antikythera Mechanism has been in the news for the past two days, and I am curious as to what, if any, advanced calculating devices exist in the Realms (excluding Mercane/Arcane imports and insane gnomish inventions!).
I think that it has been mentioned elsewhere that abaci are used, but what about things like "Napier's Bones" and slide rules, and geared adding machines and astronomical devices (orreys, for example)? Da Roni seems to be on the cutting edge of Faerunian technology, but, as I wrote to one of the researchers working on the Antikythera Mechanism, there is a BIG question as to the degree that such advanced ancient technology penetrated society at large; one might say the same for Da Roni's inventions. (I'm sure some people read the back pages of Aurora's Catalog and scoff at the advertising there as so much hokum, and use those pages first when in the little room.)
Life in Faerun nowadays must certainly be exciting for Gondians and such-like! |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 19:00:46
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Well met, Master of the Green Wood!
I have some question about Divine Salient Abilities and how they relate to some of the Faerunian deities, and another, more general question about the Torilian divinities. ("Not another question about the gods!?" Yes, another question about the gods....) I'm addressing this to your busy self because it is the Powers of Faerun about which I want specific answers -- other crystal spheres, other rules -- it's Realmspace's gods upon whom I want the skinny.
There are three specific Divine Salient Abilities whose workings amongst the gods and goddess of Realmspace particularly interests me: Divine Recall (which Oghma and Tyr both have) and Know Secrets and Know Death (both of which Shar has, and the latter of which Kelemvor -- and probably Jergal) have.
Does a deity's Divine Recall permit the deity to "remember" portfolio-specific events which occurred before the arrival or ascension of the deity? For example, does Tyr "remember" the enactment of laws made prior to his arrival on Faerun in -247 DR?
Can a Faerunian Power use the Know Secrets ability upon another Faerunian Power? For example, can Shar look at Mask and instantly know his latest scheme, or eyeball Kelemvor and learn Mystra's Truename?
Can a Faerunian Power use the Know Death ability upon another Faerunian Power? For example, would Shar have known which deities were going to get their eggs scrambled in the Time of Troubles (or who was going to get it before or after the ToT if the ability wasn't functioning then)?
If Faerunian Powers can use Know Secrets and Know Death upon one another, are they bound by Ao (or grudging courtesies) not to reveal what their abilities reveal to them?
More generally, do the human-like Powers of Realmspace dream? There is a supposition in Planescape that even dead deities from other crystal spheres and different planes can dream (if nothing else!), but do the non-Elven humanoid Powers of Realmspace dream at all? (If dead Torilian gods sleep lightly, one can imagine that Auppenser is probably sleeping lightest of all, but quien sabe?) |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 19:49:16
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quote:
Originally posted by HunterOfStorms
Hi THO and Ed,
I've recently been looking through Power of Faerun with particular interest in the Heralds section and am wondering whether the Heralds (in the context of the over-arching organisation) are humano-centric - ie. only keep track of human related heraldry (even in mixed populations) - or whether they maintain a broader purview. Which leads into a couple of questions :)
How far back beyond their founding would any records of the Heralds stretch (and how accurate might they be - are they that interested in confirming any snippets of lore they might uncover relating to heraldic lines before their official records begin)?
(snip)
I recently read the section on Master Heralds in Ocult Lore from Penumbra (DMs, keep it away from your players!), and while it seems that the author was familiar with the Heralds of Faerun ( ), he also dealt with "houses of memory" -- mnemonic aids which allow their users to memorize data and recall it by association with something familiar but imaginary (a mansion, or a tree, or whatever other mental image with which they feel comfortable). This is a Real World technique, used since ancient times. Do the Heralds of Faerun make use of such devices?
HunterOfStorms's question about how far back Heraldic memory extends also ties into question I have had since reading a Scarred Lands book in which there is a bardic organization which taps into the memories of the planetary deity herself (this would presumably be Chauntea on Faerun). Are there any individuals or organizations which have, at least potentially, access to all knowledge from the earliest days of Faerun (i.e. the Days of Thunder ... or earlier)? Any given Aboleth will have ten or twenty thousand years or more of memories, but are there those who serve as "the memory of Toril" itself? (Astinus of Planathus springs to mind as an example of what I am thinking.) |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 19:57:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi again, all. This time, the request for Ed’s lore comes from Jamallo Kreen, to whit: “Who was the disembodied Netherese Archwizard "Ander" back when he was alive, and what details are known of him besides what is in Elminster: Making of a Mage? (Yes! My effort to read El's life story backward to its beginnings has progressed all the way to Athalantar.)”
Ed replies:
Mharrander Dorolkh is the full and proper name of this Netherese archwizard, who was born in -1546 DR in Tzindylspar,
(snip)
So saith Ed. Who's throat-deep in work, as usual. 
love to all,
THO
Thank you very much! |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 00:57:45
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Hello again Ed and THO.
I've just read the Cormyr series, couldn't put them down! Shame about Tanalasta, she was great! Anyway, I've a few questions about Azoun IV.
Where exactly in Suzail was he buried? Was he buried with anything? Was there a period of him lying in state, and if so, was there an 'Honour Guard', and made up of who? Also, what happened to the body of the Devil Dragon?
As always, many thanks for sharing the lore with us! |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 01:51:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Hello again Ed and THO.
I've just read the Cormyr series, couldn't put them down! Shame about Tanalasta, she was great! Anyway, I've a few questions about Azoun IV.
Where exactly in Suzail was he buried? Was he buried with anything? Was there a period of him lying in state, and if so, was there an 'Honour Guard', and made up of who? Also, what happened to the body of the Devil Dragon?
As always, many thanks for sharing the lore with us!
Im pretty sure Ive seen answers to most of what your asking check out Kujes compiled list of Eds answers if its not there then it maybe in the one of the Dragon annuals (unfortunately my copies not readily avaliable at the moment) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 01:53:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Hello again Ed and THO.
I've just read the Cormyr series, couldn't put them down! Shame about Tanalasta, she was great! Anyway, I've a few questions about Azoun IV.
Where exactly in Suzail was he buried? Was he buried with anything? Was there a period of him lying in state, and if so, was there an 'Honour Guard', and made up of who? Also, what happened to the body of the Devil Dragon?
As always, many thanks for sharing the lore with us!
Im pretty sure Ive seen answers to most of what your asking check out Kujes compiled list of Eds answers if its not there then it maybe in the one of the Dragon annuals (unfortunately my copies not readily avaliable at the moment)
Yeah,
Ed has answered most of those over the years. Check my files.... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 02:40:59
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| Checked there once. Ah well.. time to check again. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 15:48:06
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Hello again, fellow fans of the Realms. I bring Ed’s latest answers, this time to RodOdom’s recent queries: “When Waterdhavians look out east from their towers or mountainside homes, what do they see between the city and the Ardeep forest on the horizon? Is this area mostly clear-cut farm and pastureland?
In "Elminster's Daughter" when the Old Mage gives Caladnei the magic bracelet he tells her a command word "amalumystra." What language is this? What does it mean?”
Ed replies:
They can’t properly see the river, because it’s down in a hollow. The terrain is gently-rolling, grassy hills, cleared of everything and kept that way by the endlessly arriving, departing, camping, and mustering caravans. Directly east of the cliff that forms most of the eastern boundary of the city are meadows where (in a brief morning scene in CITY OF SPLENDORS [the novel Elaine Cunningham and I wrote], the nobles fly their raptors).
In a long-ago DRAGON article (issue 128, I believe; please correct me, someone, if my aging and way-overloaded memory is failing), I detailed the Environs of Waterdeep, and Eric Boyd recently updated and expanded that coverage in a web enhancement for the CITY OF SPLENDORS: WATERDEEP sourcebook.
The immediate vicinity of the city is heavily patrolled, is used by Waterdhavians for picnics and “family outings” (yes, kite-flying, galloping of owned or rented ponies, digging up flowers and herbs [and often, surreptitiously burying stolen goods or other “must hide” evidence], lovers trysting by night, and younglings “proving themselves” to their peers by staying out for the night in groups, and so on), and is kept clear by order of the Lords (to give caravans - - and citizens willing to avoid some of the crowding in the streets by going out a gate and “around” much of the city - - ample room to travel, muster, meet, and camp, and also to deny any attacking armies cover). Clerics from Goldenfields use magic to prevent “bare-dirt” trails from developing where they aren’t wanted (they exist bounding the east side of the city, of course).
So, think “endless pleasant green hills” (or in winter, endless white snowy hills), and you’ll have it right.
As for the command word “amalumystra,” it’s not a proper word in any language at all (command words are usually meant to be sounds people are unlikely to utter by accident, and so tend not to be words that have other meanings), but rather an amalgam of “amalum” (which means “awaken” in Loross, the Netherese noble tongue) and the name of Mystra, goddess of magic. A Chosen of Mystra (or Azuth) might say, “Tal-amalum-Mystra,” meaning [in Loross] literally, “Awaken to my presence, Mystra,” but really meaning, “Mystra, I’m here.” However, no other entity in the Realms is likely to speak so, making amalumystra a fairly “safe” choice as a command word.
So saith Ed. Patiently painting in little corner of the Realms after little corner of the Realms (these days, with much help from a growing legion of other talented creators, from Steven Schend and Eric Boyd and Elaine Cunningham to Paul Kemp, Rich Baker, and the “Young Dragons”). To say nothing of George Krashos, Tom Costa, Brian Cortijo, and a host of other more-unsung scribes.
For which I say: thank goodness. Ed’s brain was getting tired.
love to all,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 16:05:21
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Hello again, fellow scribes. For another direct quotation from Ed of the Greenwood, on the topic of Elminster's mental healing, post-ELMINSTER IN HELL, I direct your attention to the Novels threads, specifically "How long was Elminster in Hell?"
This is from an older Ed lore reply to some fellow Realms designers, quoted here in public for the first time (with Ed's permission, of course).
love,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 03 Dec 2006 16:07:31 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 16:39:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
In a long-ago DRAGON article (issue 128, I believe; please correct me, someone, if my aging and way-overloaded memory is failing), I detailed the Environs of Waterdeep, and Eric Boyd recently updated and expanded that coverage in a web enhancement for the CITY OF SPLENDORS: WATERDEEP sourcebook.
It was indeed in Dragon 128. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 01:10:27
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Hi, all. This time, Ed responds to Wandering_mage (and yes, to Kaladorm, too!) re. this, from WM: “I would speak on a subject of humor for but a moment. While reading Elminster in Hell, which by the way is an excellent read and should get 5 stars, my son who is but learning about Santa Claus just now really pointed at Elminster on the cover and referred to Elminster as Santa Claus. And Elminster was fighting a snake and pumpkins (he refers to anything scary as pumpkin, thus the imps were pumpkins). I didn't have the heart to tell him that Elminster was not Santa Claus, however I almost wonder if mages around Faerun don't view this powerful mage as a Santa Claus of sorts at times. Thought you'd get a laugh from that Ed and THO.”
[to which Kaladorm added: “That would make Lhaeo....Mrs Klaus?”]
Ed replies:
I got TWO laughs, thanks to the both of you. The Hooded One is discreetly failing to mention the infamous “Santa Elminster” moment, in which she sat on my knee, asked for things, and, er, got them - - but never mind. Perhaps the less said about that, the better.
I often get mistaken for Santas Claus when I’m shopping (and I always smile, lean close, and murmur, “Hi! Don’t tell anyone else except Mummy or Daddy [whoever’s with them], because I’m IN DISGUISE! Okay!” . . . which seems to delight them), even to having little kids pull on my beard to be sure it’s real.
Oh, and by the way: every year I write and read a new Christmas story for the annual Christmas Open House at the Port Hope Public Library (where I work as a part-time circulation clerk), and delivered this year’s on Friday just past. Once I’ve done enough of them for a book, we’ll collect them all into a book, and donate all royalties to the library.
Yes, many mages of the Realms DO see Elminster as the equivalent of Santa Claus (a term and concept unknown to them, of course). Perhaps he’s best described as “Mystra’s Gruffly Whimsical Fairy.” :}
And please tell your son that Elminster IS Santa Claus and he and I both have to fight a lot of pumpkins.
(However, that’s “No claus for alarm!” [Sorry])
As for you, Kaladorm: HOhohohohohohoho! A jester after my own heart! (And gizzard, and chittlins, and so I’d better shift them all around a bit, so I don’t lose them . . .)
So saith Ed. “Mystra’s Gruffly Whimsical Fairy”? Geez, Ed, you nearly made me wet myself! (“Hello, there, Mystra’s Gruffly Whimsical Fairy! What’ve you got up your old beard for this naughty little lass, THIS time? Hmmm? Oh, the usual? [Yawn]” etc.)
Rolling my eyes, here. 
love to all,
THO
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Holy_Rage
Acolyte
Greece
3 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 19:11:41
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Hello Mr. Greenwood and THO,
I wonder what material and/or lore is available about Hulgorkyn, besides that it's the Archaic Orc language, that it's a dead language and that it uses dwarven characters. Any important writings and or works in that language? If not, anything else one should be aware of? I am playing a half-orcish wizard who would like to discover more about that language and its role in orc evolution and culture.
Any help would be highly appreciated , thanks in advance. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 05:00:20
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| My lovely Lady Hooded One, I'm hoping either you or Ed can offer me a bit of assistance. I sent you an email, as it's not something I'm prepared to share with everyone quite yet. I'd really appreciate it if you could pass the email on to Ed, and/or if you can help me out on it. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 05:01:11
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Hi, all. This time, Ed favours us with replies to a raft of questions (and responses to earlier Ed replies) from Zandilar, from March and June of this year. He chose to interleave his responses, so the quotation marks are Zandilar, and double square brackets are Ed. I’ve chopped this in half due to length, and will post the rest on the morrow.
“Ah, that makes things much clearer. So basically Alusair knows nearly everything [about Vangey’s spells to keep her from conceiving as a teen], and has probably guessed at the rest. *nods* Why, then, hasn't she asked any questions to ascertain whether or not the spell(s) has faded/failed/been removed? That would seem logical, especially if she's not yet ready to stop being promiscuous (and I don't mean anything negative with that word).”
[[She has, indirectly, of her mother Filfaeril and of Laspeera, getting both of them to magically check her (Fee via outside Harper mages, Laspeera directly). She neither wants to ask Vangey nor trusts any answer he may give her. This has occurred ‘offstage’ in published Realmslore, of course (I say ‘of course’ due to the subject matter), and she remains suspicious of Vangey, recognizing that he’ll do ANYTHING and sacrifice ANYONE (including himself, as we saw in EL’S D) for the strengthening and survival of the realm. She sees that this very much includes her, and she hates being anyone’s pawn.]]
“There are lots of reasons why I think Cormyr is a patriarchy... Mostly to do with it being a patrilineally emphasised primogeniture (hence why Alusair having a bastard child is less acceptable than Azoun, since you KNOW the mother, but not the father - and KNOWING the father seem MORE important than KNOWING the mother!). Inheritance definitely favours males in Cormyr. That's why I see Cormyr, particularly the nobility, as patriarchal.”
[[Correct: the nobles are VERY patriarchal. The heralds are not, and the ‘-ahast’ guiding mages do or support whatever is best for the realm at the time (e.g. the weak male king abdicating in favour of his stronger sister). The patriarchal bent has APPEARED stronger in recent years due to the personalities involved, Vangey and the philandering Azoun in particular, but legally the various churches, the heralds, the law of the realm, and the regulatory administration of the Royal Court scribes (bureaucrats) has been balanced, in terms of gender, when it comes to lineage, inheritance, legitimacy, and status.]]
“Quick question to start with: Is there divorce in Cormyr? Or are two people, especially nobles, who find themselves not in love anymore (or in the case of an arranged marriage - in a situation untenable to both) expected to stay together once married? I was under the impression that marriage was variable from "one night only" to "one year and a day" to "as long as love lasts" to "while this vase remains whole" to "forever."”
[[There are ‘annulments’ in Cormyr (yes, these are divorces), for specific reasons recognized by various churches, and for a few state legal reasons (usually involving deception involving shapechangers, etc.). There are NOT divorces in the modern real-world “I got tired of my partner, so we’ll file on the grounds of mutual incompatability or whatever” sense. And it’s VERY hard for royalty or nobility to get annulments, which is why unwanted spouses tend to get murdered in ‘accidents.’ For most Cormyreans, marriage is until death, after a trial year-and-a-day handfasting, with fourteen summers of a spouse being absent automatically being considered “death,” if the abandoned spouse petitions before a magister for this consideration - - even if “everybody knows” the missing spouse ran off to Sembia and is quite openly living with someone else. By the way, there’s no society-wide stigma to living with someone else (regardless of gender), married or unmarried, although various faiths and particular families may well disapprove. As a result, a lot of commoners never marry. Such a couple CAN own property jointly, without being married, just as mercantile business partners do.]]
“And to respond to the quote: Yes, they are a serious problem to succession, if it mattered who the father was (which is only the case when the male is the sole determining factor of the royal bloodline, which it's not in Cormyr - otherwise the first female Orbarskyran ruler of Cormyr would have been the last Orbarskyran ruler of Cormyr, since the throne would have shifted to her husband's line! This, of course, is an exception to the male favoring inheritance rules of Cormyr's nobility). In the case of Alusair, it would be blindingly obvious that the child was hers (and she'd be the one carrying/passing on the line in this case), simply because the physiological changes a female body undergoes throughout the process of pregnancy are hard to hide! (It could be done magically, but why?) Simply put, the child would obviously be an Obarskyr.
Likewise, it's easy to accuse a male of being a child's father... But there's no proof. A blue eyed male who was about the right age could be presented as a Son of Azoun IV, without it actually being true. That is the why bastards present a threat, because there will always be pretenders to the throne... Except, of course, that this is a magical world, and there are magical ways to prove or disprove the parentage. So pretenders would be less common (though probably more common than the circumstances would make us think, since there's also countermagic and the like).
If it *really* mattered who the father was, why wasn't Azoun IV's eldest male bastard even in the running against Azoun V? Or why wasn't Alusair the more legitimate heir?
To expand on that: Tanalasta's marriage to Rowan was only witnessed by Chauntea herself - what proof is there to everyone else that the child is not a bastard? Certainly the Chaunteans would say he was legitimate (since their divinations could prove it for themselves), but some nobles would point to the Chaunteans "political aspirations" (imagined or supposed from Tanalasta's public (but refused) gift of Chauntean priests to her father) and say that they had an agenda (maybe to make Chauntea the state religion) in saying that Azoun V was a legitimate son. Also, surely people who hated (or even just mildly disliked) the Cormaerils would have protested Tanalasta's son becoming the next king! And oooh I can only imagine the backlash/outcry if Rowan was ever revealed as a Ghazneth! An elder bastard son might be the perfect thing to hold up as an alternative (except, of course, people would laugh because Azoun IV had so many of them!)... And surely some would have (or are still) pressed (pressing) Alusair herself as an alternative to the "bastard son of a Cormaeril"?
I suppose some of these things are "behind the scenes" things... Things that have been happening off the page, so to speak. I suppose not all gamers are as interested in the intricate intrigues that surely plague the Throne of the Purple Dragon. To me, what's in print seems to be "Oh, Tanalasta had a son, he's the heir, and that's that!"”
[[I quite agree that what ended up in print did indeed seem to be: “Oh, Tanalasta had a son, he's the heir, and that's that!” - - much too pat, much too short, and not properly explored onstage. Again, that’s largely due to the subject matter; TSR and now WotC just don’t want their books to focus overmuch on who beds who, rules of inheritance and legitimacy, and so on. I agree that there would be a HUGE backlash if Rowan was ever revealed as a Ghazneth.
I agree with all you say about the discontent with Azoun V’s legitimacy, and it does exist as behind-closed-doors mutterings in some houses. It isn’t open, public, widespread, or lasting because of two factors:
1. The general populace desperately WANTS the reassurance of “an Azoun on the throne,” and so are VERY willing to accept Azoun V.
2. In order to prove (in the face of immediate accusations) to the Cormyrean leaders of other faiths that they were NOT making a play for power (state religion status or just “power behind the throne”), the senior clergy of Chauntea invited, and allowed, Harper mages and Vangey and said Cormyrean leaders of other faiths to “watch” the testimony of Chauntea from their memories, and see it for themselves. They then turned right around and prayed to THEIR gods for confirmation that what they saw was “truth” and not a deception of mortals by Chauntea - - and received it (presumably those deities checked with Chauntea directly). You see, there are rules that all of the lawful and the good deities play by, in mortal politics, because they all “stand and fall” by the results. Only crazy deities like Cyric try to kick over the whole agreement - - and that very disregard for common consequences is why they’re viewed as mad.]]
So saith Ed, and that’s enough for one post. More next time.
love to all,
THO
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 14:41:26
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Dear Ed and Lady THO,
I can see white puffy clouds casting shadows over the green, sunny hills of Waterdeep. Thank you ! |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 23:40:27
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| Oh Great Greenwood, I have a new query for you. An old Dragon Magazine (I was told about it, and actually don't own the issue myself) mentions that the deity of Snow Elves is worshipped in the Realms, and that there may or may not be Snow Elves in the upper reaches of the Anauroch, and points north. Can you shed any light on this matter? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 00:20:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
Oh Great Greenwood, I have a new query for you. An old Dragon Magazine (I was told about it, and actually don't own the issue myself) mentions that the deity of Snow Elves is worshipped in the Realms, and that there may or may not be Snow Elves in the upper reaches of the Anauroch, and points north. Can you shed any light on this matter?
I found an article on snow elves in Dragon 155... 'Tis called "In the Ice and the Snow", and is by David S. Reimer. A quick scan of the article doesn't show any Realms connection; they are described as a Greyhawk race. Their deity is Tarsellis Meunniduin, but that's not a name I recall ever seeing elsewhere. Admittedly, it's been a while since I perused the Anauroch tome. I'll dig that out in a minute. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 00:38:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
Oh Great Greenwood, I have a new query for you. An old Dragon Magazine (I was told about it, and actually don't own the issue myself) mentions that the deity of Snow Elves is worshipped in the Realms, and that there may or may not be Snow Elves in the upper reaches of the Anauroch, and points north. Can you shed any light on this matter?
I found an article on snow elves in Dragon 155... 'Tis called "In the Ice and the Snow", and is by David S. Reimer. A quick scan of the article doesn't show any Realms connection; they are described as a Greyhawk race. Their deity is Tarsellis Meunniduin, but that's not a name I recall ever seeing elsewhere. Admittedly, it's been a while since I perused the Anauroch tome. I'll dig that out in a minute.
Tarsellis was also detailed in Chris Perry's "The Seldarine Revisited" article for DRAGON #236.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Dec 2006 04:02:10 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 11:12:44
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Vendui!
While calmly waiting on the delivery of the scroll on drow cities and drow population, I was made aware of some other knowledge-seeking petitioners ... over at the Wizardboards. They were trying to get an answer to what "Bregan D'aerthe" might mean, so far without success. As Ed worked alongside Menzoberranzan-scribe R.A. Salvatore, could it be that he has any knowledge about the meaning of the name of the mercenary band?
Aluve, Zanan! |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 06 Dec 2006 11:13:14 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 21:43:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello again, fellow scribes. This time Ed answers Skeptic, in the matter of something Ed said in these threads back in 2004: [[[It's very important that gamers not follow their real-world (usually monotheistic) thinking when considering Faerunian situations: the Realms is pantheistic, and "everyone knows" ALL the gods (at least of one's own race) "really exist." Unlike our real world, there's no denying that the folk praying to another god next door aren't just as correct as "we" are, because often "we" will also be praying to that other deity soon (if only for appeasement). The faith lies in believing this or that personal, dream-vision-induced, or priestly interpretation of the deity's will or intentions or prohibitions, not in believing the god exists.]]
(snip)
Well met!
I've been doing much reading in Deities & Demigods, Faiths & Avatars, etc. recently and a question occured to me which this is as good a post as any to spin it off from, especially since someone asked about the three humans who (mostly) supplanted Jergal:
Have any Torilian mortals ever left Realmspace, journeyed to other crystal spheres or planes, become "gods" there, and then returned as gods to Toril?
I note that of the current batch of "human" deities, the ones with the most character class levels have all ascended from humanity to divinty on Faerun itself (i.e., Bane, Mystra, Cyric, and Kelemvor, each of whom has more character levels than Chauntea and Selune!). If some Torilian attained 60+ character levels on another world or plane and was acknowledged as a deity there (on Oerth, for example, where it seems a relatively easy thing to become a demigod), is it likely (and I seek your opinion as the DM of all Realms DMs) that Ao would permit that individual to reign as a deity on Toril? If yes, would he or she be considered as an "interloper" by most theologians?
Apropos of Jergal, is there something mentally/psychically taxing about divinity (or perhaps just the plane where the God of Death resides) which causes some to become fatigued and bored with their own godhood? It would seem ironic that one might struggle for decades (or centuries) to become a deity only to face millenia (or an eternity!) of ennui....
Inquiring Doctors of Divinity want to know!
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 06:21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I found an article on snow elves in Dragon 155... 'Tis called "In the Ice and the Snow", and is by David S. Reimer. A quick scan of the article doesn't show any Realms connection; they are described as a Greyhawk race. Their deity is Tarsellis Meunniduin, but that's not a name I recall ever seeing elsewhere. Admittedly, it's been a while since I perused the Anauroch tome. I'll dig that out in a minute.
-I did a quick search for 'Elf' in my Anauroch PDF, and I came up with no worthwhile matches (the only match to 'Elf' was for a Bedine word for 'Outsider'). There's nothing of any interest in Anauroch. Admittedly, I don't have the issue, so I don't know the exact details of what was said. Let me delve into my WotC account, and see if I can find the thread that it was mentioned in...
-The following can be found on page 16 of Dragon 236:
"Rumor has it that snow elves also exist on the far reaches of the Spine of the World or even the High Ice portion of Anauroch in Faerûn, though this is unproven."
-Also, Apparently, according to Tom Costa, Megwandir, an alias of Lolth's, was once once an evil Elven goddess who somehow tricked the Snow Elf deity, Tarsellis. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 07 Dec 2006 06:33:00 |
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Paj
Seeker
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 09:09:27
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Good morning all.
As im sitting at work writing about the School football team I was curious if any of the races/kingdoms in Faerun have their own unique sports.
If so what are these sports and do they have teams/leagues or would it just be a leisure thing rather than a big focus? |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 14:09:36
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If I may add my own question to Jamillo's:
Are the common folk of Faerun aware that some of their most powerful gods were originally mortal? |
Edited by - RodOdom on 07 Dec 2006 14:10:00 |
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Sage of Stars
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 17:41:46
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| And I have a question for Ed regarding Cormyr, and the next two Knights books. Specifically, how much lore is Ed planning to "sneak in" around the edges of the story? |
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Besshalar
Learned Scribe
Finland
166 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 18:06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Stars
And I have a question for Ed regarding Cormyr, and the next two Knights books. Specifically, how much lore is Ed planning to "sneak in" around the edges of the story?
An unofficial guess: More than enough to have us hounding him for even more.  |
The large print giveth , and the small print taketh away.
-Tom Waits |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 15:46:53
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Hi again, all. Sorry I’ve been silent for a day or so; the site wouldn’t let me in (grrr). Herewith, the rest of Ed’s responses to Zandilar (double quotes are Z, double brackets are E):
[[Glad you liked ELMINSTER’S DAUGHTER. Faraer has quite correctly pointed out my approach to Realms fiction: there are no major or minor characters, just ‘main’ characters in a book who get the most page space. This is part of my ongoing struggle, down the years, against the prevalent preferred editorial style of “keep the story VERY simple” to hammer home to even the casual reader how rich and large and broad in scope the Realms is (well beyond the field of view of any single novel, including whatever Ed book is in your hand), and to sprinkle in details that herald future books, in such a way that it’s not obvious to the reader until those later books come out (so the setting will seem alive, and not an otherwise lifeless stage that hosts a series of contrived literary ‘events’ and plots).
For obvious reasons, I can’t say anything about those future tomes . . .]]
“Basically I had a desire to see more of certain characters, and it seemed to me that they were cut down too far in favour of things that seemed inconsequental to me. Like those two smugglers, for example - they took up too much page space, when I actually wanted to see more of Narnra. For a book where she's the title character, the only thing we ever saw was her spending almost half the book running along the rooftops of Marsember, and then she seemed to hmmm.. be of less consequence than I was expecting given the title of the book.”
[[Very good point. I needed the two smugglers both for comic relief and to ground us, however briefly, in the stinking, down and dirty, everyday grime of criminal life in Marsember. The editors loved the comic relief and so kept more of them than the other scenes, when it came time to trim. My fault, not theirs, for overwriting. One of my essential points was to illustrate that in the Realms, low-powered characters ARE cogs in large, ruthlessly-grinding apparati, not unrealistically “champions and heroes out of nowhere,” and Narnra is an illustration of that. However, you’re right, after the trimming, she’s “barely there” in the latter three quarters of the book. Moreover, an important detail of her maturing and development was edited out of the end of the book, against my wishes.]]
“Ed quote: [[As for lack of detail, please tell me more, so I can avoid going too light on lore or in-passing description in future books.]] Well you're always saying that the editors cut out a lot of your words... It's hard for me to explain. Maybe once I've read the book a second time I'll have a better idea of what I'm trying to say here. (And I think there was a bit much of the "it just so happens that these bad people Narnra smashes in on ALSO happen to be involved in THIS plot with the creature that COINCIDENTALLY just so happens to be..." And yet she doesn't exert any influence herself on those situations... Ends up going out with a whimper without really doing much at all.)”
[[Very fair criticism: I DO love to do the ‘incredibly long arm of coincidence’ shtick far too much. The “ha ha, it just so happens” smartass narrator. I’ll try to cut this back in the Knights books. As for Narnra’s lack of influence and action, see my previous answer. Maybe, if I can liquor up a WotC editor enough, someone will someday let me write a “Narm meets Narnra” book, and if they’re the only heroes, we’ll HAVE to see them doing things and growing as characters and having impacts - - however, please note that I don’t intend to have every “good guy/gal” character be a Conanesque hero; I want weaklings, indecisive and shy types, too.]]
“On another issue of detail - I have to say that I admire your ability to write descriptive passages so lushly and with great attention to detail. It fits in seamlessly with the action that is going on... Some parts of Narnra's chase through Marsember are just breathtaking. If I could just fit half the descriptive detail into my own stories, I think I'd be doing very well indeed. My novel teacher, Delia Falconer, used to emphasise the inclusion of such detail to an extreme point, but she never gave us a good enough example of what she meant for me to truly understand what she was talking about - most of the stuff she showed us was overly full of detail, but you got the balance just right in Elminster's Daughter.”
[[Thanks. It’s ESSENTIAL to work in Realmslore - - after all, it’s the one thing I can trump other writers in doing, so if the editors put Ed Greenwood into the saddle for a Realms novel, I’d better deliver some Realmslore, yes? - - but doubly essential NOT to stop or seriously slow the action in doing so. As for non-Realmslore detail: if I don’t give it, you don’t get pulled into the scene so you fully see, smell, and feel the “you are there” experience - - and then I’m giving you a cartoon outline, not the full, rich action movie you are paying for (hey, if you live in Oz, you’re REALLY paying for it!).
“Ed quote: [[And as for Caladnei: when writing the outline for EL’S D, I noticed that the (very brief) notes I had for Caladnei from Rich Baker (her co-creator, I believe, along with Sean Reynolds) were at odds with Troy’s text, so I “checked in” for a definitive response from WotC, and got this: “As per her racial origins, should have dark hair, dark brown eyes, middling height, average build (not buxom, adventurer-active so not fat). Give her some unusual trait to suggest magic-wielding in her genes?”]] Hmm... Interesting. Caladnei is half Chondathan half Tumeri right? Is that middling height for those races, given they're both described as tall, or middling height for the average human of no specific origin? The 5'03" given to her in FRCS seems to be short, at least to me, especially for tall races.
Ed quote: [[Not wanting to have her skin glow with runes or anything that ‘obvious,’ I devised the shifting-in-hue eyes as that visible trait of aptitude for the Art.]] I definitely like her eyes as you described them.”
[[I’d say it’s probably middling height for an average human. With her height a given, I didn’t worry about it, but set out to build her character. Didn’t manage it enough in EL’S D or in my REALMS OF SHADOW short story, but when you put the two together, it’s a start. You can probably tell that I’d happily write a Cormyr novel every year, for about the next twenty years, as long as they let me also write a second Realms novel each year that wasn’t set in Cormyr, so I could tell all the other tales I want to tell. :} ]]
“Ed quote: [[Roedele Thornmantle, knighted by Azoun for her services to the Crown (some have cattily referred to these as “personal services,” but they seem to center around alley-fighting in rebellious Arabel, not anything romantic with the Purple Dragon), uses as her arms a circular white unicorn, head to the sinister, on a circular field of dark green bordered with white flames, and is a CG hf W9 who dwells in Suzail with her two lovers, the War Wizards Abrult Morglam (CG hm W6, darkly handsome, short, whittling wooden caricatures and dragons is his constant hobby) and Jakanna Bruen (NG hf W7, short-tempered, energetic, tanned, loves to climb trees and play pranks); the three are inseparable. Roedele’s known for a polite public manner that displays a very dry humour. [I don’t think TSR was ready to show the world two bisexual ladies in 1986].]] Not just bisexual, but a true triad if the two women are both bisexual... A full on polyamorous relationship. So I can see even more reason why they might not have appeared in print. Hard enough to get people to accept sexualities other than heterosexual, let alone true polyamory. Though I suppose if it was somehow presented as the two women being Abrult's wives it might have been marginally more acceptable to some, since polygamy has a long history... Particularly in the judeo-christian faith (though it has fallen out of favour in recent times... there are still some Mormons who practice polygamy, so I understand - not sure if there are any Jewish or Muslim sects that still practice it).”
[[I have heard that there are, but yes, I agree that it developed into a true triad, and that such a thing would have been verboten in TSR novels at the time, except as a very ‘hidden and inexplicit, in the background, buddy movie’ sort of way. I tend to be so matter-of-fact about such relationships that I’m often surprised, even after all this time, when editors gasp and say, “We can’t include THAT!” about various matters. After all, I work in a library in a town where two wrinkled and very ‘proper’ ladies in their eighties, unmarried and living together, can openly stand in the most public spot in the town library, as I, about a foot away from them, check out the library books they’ve chosen, and angrily tell a third lady that they’ve just driven all the way to Toronto and back, and their favourite shop in which to buy dildoes has closed down and gone! The general local attitude is “Live and let live” and “None of my business what X and Y do, so long as it don’t scare the horses,” but local attitudes in other locales around the world can, of course, be VERY different.]]
“Ed quote: [[So my “in game” explanation would have to be that Caladnei borrowed Roedele’s appearance when crafting the incantation for a spell that was probably also some sort of defensive mantle - - and that this borrowing may originally have been intended to conceal her own presence, so the Mage Royal could officially be elsewhere, and uninvolved. When the events related in THE SIEGE befell, Caladnei may have hastily cast this spell she’d developed, because she had need of its powers, and forgotten or not cared that it temporarily gave her the appearance of a fellow War Wizard. Or the spell may well have been one given her by Vangerdahast, that gives the caster someone else’s appearance, and he had set the ‘other’ to be Roedele (and Caladnei used the spell in hasty need, either not knowing it altered her appearance or not caring).]] Oooh that's an interesting explanation... Would Caladnei have got permission to use Roedele's appearance first? I know Vangerdahast might not have, but Caladnei seems to be a little more conciderate of other people and their feelings.”
[[I’d say she would have sought permission whenever possible, but in an emergency would have done what Vangey does: whatever’s necessary to achieve their goals, for the good of the realm. When push comes to shove . . . But otherwise, yes, Caladnei does want acceptance and agreement far more than Vangey, who’d long since decided scaring people into yielding to him was swifter, easier, and more gratifying (for him).]]
“Also, what do you see as the differences between Wizardry and Sorcery? If Caladnei can come up with mantles like that on her own, does that push other spells out of her "known spells" list? Or is it just something she scribed down on a scroll to use at a later date (reading it straight off the scroll)? Or is it just one more thing she's taught herself to do with magic (which would mean it would be on her list of "known spells" at the expense of another spell)? Sometimes the way you describe magic sounds to me a bit like psionics... This mind ream ability that mages (of both stripes) seem to have is definitely more psionic in appearance than magical since it doesn't seem to be a particular spell they cast, just something they do... Not sure if that's making much sense.
I guess it is diffcult taking into account the game mechanics when writing a novel... Which is why people always seem to have great trouble translating novel characters into game mechanics. According to FRCS, Caladnei has no mantle like spells or even polymorph like spells... And she's only just high enough in level to be able to cast teleport (and cone of cold, which is her other listed 5th level spell)... She just appears, in the novel, to be able to do a bit too much for her stats to truly be a reflection of her (things that can't just be explained away as magical items, since she doesn't appear to use any or read any scrolls).”
[[The problem here is that too much of my fiction has concerned Chosen of Mystra, or Shandril, who can “feel” the Weave and experiment with molding it to their will either out of long experience and understanding of it, or just sheer naive power. So what I’ve written tends to give a false impression.
Vangerdahast, as an -ahast wizard, and Elminster’s sometime apprentice, got some inkling of Elminster’s ‘creating spells’ approach, and full access to what his predecessors in the role achieved magically. Caladnei has that, too, but she’s like a bright, quick-witted kid who’s just inherited a huge library; she’s still racing around discovering what she now has. The mind-ream and -meld is part of the powers of her office, and note how vulnerable using it leaves her, and how much of her encounter with Narnra involves superb acting on her part.
In like manner, a lot of the spells she apparently calls out of thin air are powers of the office: Vangey handed her a lot of swift, often silent little spells that essentially awaken a magic item in a vault, somewhere in the kingdom, “fire” it, and translocate the magical effect from the vault to issue from her at a target she’s facing. Yes, we should cover this in game terms. No, the designers will always resist doing so, for two reasons: ties other fiction writers down to specifics, and some clever gamer will find all the loopholes and turn this into an “every time” D&D gamebreaker. Yet this IS the way I’ve considered a lot of wizards in the Realms, from before there was a D&D game (and why some lucky lout with a stick can’t just walk up and bludgeon a learned wizard to death that easily, after throwing stones at him from behind trees all afternoon, and getting him to waste all his spells at said trees): in his lair, with time to prepare, darn near EVERY wizard can call on a wand that’s hidden up on a shelf, or a ring still in a box under his pillow, to blast unwanted visitors. What he can’t do, except in rare cases of Chosen or being the Royal Magician of Cormyr, is stride around attacking others with all of the same prepared firepower. That’s why the Manshoons of this world, who can wave a hand and open a dozen gates all around a foe, with wands firing through each one, are truly to be feared.”
So saith Ed. Handing us all a stellar nugget of Realmslore at the end, there!
love to all,
THO
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 05:36:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I found an article on snow elves in Dragon 155... 'Tis called "In the Ice and the Snow", and is by David S. Reimer. A quick scan of the article doesn't show any Realms connection; they are described as a Greyhawk race. Their deity is Tarsellis Meunniduin, but that's not a name I recall ever seeing elsewhere. Admittedly, it's been a while since I perused the Anauroch tome. I'll dig that out in a minute.
-I did a quick search for 'Elf' in my Anauroch PDF, and I came up with no worthwhile matches (the only match to 'Elf' was for a Bedine word for 'Outsider'). There's nothing of any interest in Anauroch. Admittedly, I don't have the issue, so I don't know the exact details of what was said. Let me delve into my WotC account, and see if I can find the thread that it was mentioned in...
-The following can be found on page 16 of Dragon 236:
"Rumor has it that snow elves also exist on the far reaches of the Spine of the World or even the High Ice portion of Anauroch in Faerûn, though this is unproven."
-Also, Apparently, according to Tom Costa, Megwandir, an alias of Lolth's in Realmspace, was once once an evil Elven goddess who somehow tricked the Snow Elf deity, Tarsellis.
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(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2006)
Topic Locked
