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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2006 :  20:34:40  Show Profile  Visit VonRaventheDaring's Homepage  Send VonRaventheDaring a Yahoo! Message Send VonRaventheDaring a Private Message
Hail THO,
I have a question for you. I many seem slow but what character do you play in Ed's Group? and i have heard one of the seven sisters is based off you if so which one might i ask. Thanks and you are always missed.

"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4274 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2006 :  20:40:45  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring

Hail THO,
I have a question for you. I many seem slow but what character do you play in Ed's Group? and i have heard one of the seven sisters is based off you if so which one might i ask. Thanks and you are always missed.



The first guestion will never be answered as a matter of policy, and should not be asked again by anyone (I believe this is third time this year the question has been asked).

Perhaps the second one might be answered, though I consider the odds low on that unless the answer is No none of the seven sisters are based on THO.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29790 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2006 :  22:03:40  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring

Hail THO,
I have a question for you. I many seem slow but what character do you play in Ed's Group? and i have heard one of the seven sisters is based off you if so which one might i ask. Thanks and you are always missed.



The first guestion will never be answered as a matter of policy, and should not be asked again by anyone (I believe this is third time this year the question has been asked).

Perhaps the second one might be answered, though I consider the odds low on that unless the answer is No none of the seven sisters are based on THO.



Ed has stated that none of his characters were based on specific real people.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2006 :  22:34:37  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring

Hail THO,
I have a question for you. I many seem slow but what character do you play in Ed's Group? and i have heard one of the seven sisters is based off you if so which one might i ask. Thanks and you are always missed.



The first guestion will never be answered as a matter of policy, and should not be asked again by anyone (I believe this is third time this year the question has been asked).

Perhaps the second one might be answered, though I consider the odds low on that unless the answer is No none of the seven sisters are based on THO.



Agrees with the first part and this is why, for the past two years, my doc files contain such text at the top of the files. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2006 :  01:11:17  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, all!
Just for the record, none of the Seven is based on me (or on any of the rest of us, including Ed).
In March of last year, Skeptic asked: “I’ve read somewhere that there is a Gargauth temple somewhere under Waterdeep, where I should place it ?”
Ed delayed replying to avoid conflicting with Eric Boyd’s superb Waterdeep update lorebook and its web enhancements, but can now reply, thus:



Right underneath Malather’s Fine Wheels and Axles (All Sizes, All Kinds), a four-storey shop - - the upper floors are a workshop and two ‘warehouse’ floors of stock, crammed with wheels that go right down to tiny carved wooden ones for toys and for making serving “boats” (miniature carved wooden ships loaded with bottles of condiments and sprinkle-spices, that some nobles like to push across their dining-tables to each other), and the cellar is rented out for “small storage” to individual Waterdhavians (i.e. you pay by the strongchest you put down there, in the damp) - - that stands on west-front The Way of the Dragon, four doors north of Simples Street [for those with access only to the most recent (and superb) CITY OF SPLENDORS: WATERDEEP hardcover lorebook by Eric Boyd, Simples Street is the cross-street that runs through the “bottom” (southernmost tip) of Virgin’s Square] in Trades Ward.
The temple is formally known as the House of Hidden Watchfulness (faithful just call it “the House”). It’s a small, simple subterranean complex of four rooms: a ‘robing room’ (where worshippers set aside outer clothing and carried items), that opens into an approach hall with flanking pairs of torch-brackets and braziers, which leads into the holy sanctum or main worship area (which has curtains at its entrance, a raised chancel with altar at its far end, and curtains at the back of the chancel that conceal two doors into the last room: a vestry for the priests to store offerings, temple regalia, their own robes, sacrificial materials, spare braziers and fuel, and so on).
The temple has three entrances: two worshippers know about, that reach the robing room from different directions, and a third known only to the priests, that connects with the vestry.
The east-side robing room entrance is a stair down through the NE corner of the (hollow at that point only) front wall of Malather’s shop, that opens out into the floor above the shop (one of the warehouse levels; Hardro Malather [owner of the building and a LE male Chondathan human Exp2 who sometimes worships in the temple himself] lets worshippers access it for a 1 cp/person fee that is turned over to the priests to defray running costs of the temple).
The west-side robing room entrance connects with the cellar of the notorious Bowels of the Earth tavern [location T36 in the hardcover sourcebook]; specifically, a sliding wall panel in the mens’ jakes in the cellar; the priests like to inform female worshippers only of this entrance, to humiliate them - - and force them to make the long, chilly, damp walk through the connecting tunnel to the robing room in the dark.
The vestry entrance runs northeast (crossing under The Way of the Dragon) to reach the second floor of a building in a very similar manner to the connection with Malather’s shop. The building is Saraera’s Fresh Loaves and Handpies (a bakery of buns, small round loaves, and hand-pies [we real-world moderns would say “meat pies;” most of Saraera’s are stuffed with highly-spiced mashed fish that we would call “curried fish,” but sometimes she buys old, strong-flavored cheese or ‘past-it’ sausage, which she slices into medallions and fries in oil with her own spice mixtures, and uses them for filling, instead]). The three-storey bakery is locally very popular, floods the area with pleasant baking smells every morning, and stands on the SE corner of the moot of The Way of the Dragon and Blackhorn Alley.
Saraera lives on the upper floor, rents the middle floor out as offices to two mysterious companies: Red Anchor Importing and Elraen Investments (neither really exists; they’re just fronts for the priest who owns the entire building), has her shop on the ground floor, and has her ovens and supplies in the cellar. Ilmarara Saeraera is a fat, short, wheezing, sharp-tongued and beady-black-eyed malicious little matron who takes in young lasses as her staff, slaps and whips them if they misbehave or displease her, but loyally stands up for them otherwise. She’s a CE female Calishite human Exp1 who has no idea that one of her tenants is actually her landlord, too (the rent she pays is collected monthly by a hired bailiff), or about the hidden stair inside the SE corner of the bakery wall, or about the temple. She worships Loviatar, and every third day spends a morning going outside the city to a patch of stinging nettles, cutting them, stuffing them inside her clothes next to her skin so she’ll feel appropriate pain, and praying all the way back to the bakery, where she disrobes, climbs into a waiting cold bath to wash away the nettles so she can bear to work again, and returns to her baking.
(I’ve left the clergy of this temple mysterious so DMs can insert their own NPCs tailor-matched to their campaign.)



So saith Ed. Revealing hidden temples upon request (one at a time, ONE at a time . . .).
love to all,
THO
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2006 :  01:26:46  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Netheril: Empire of Magic is also available for free on the Wizards downloads page.

As is How the Mighty Are Fallen, as Jamallo suggested above. 'Tis also available at the same URL Wooly indicated above.




They are both excellent products (and both by "slade," I think).

The one Netherese enclave I most want to know about now is Selune's favorite, Opus, which was founded by Chever, presumably before he went (apparently) insane.

Given that Quantoul polymorphed himself and his neighbors into voadkyn giants, maybe Chever wasn't really insane after all -- maybe he just transformed himself into a talking penguin and we merely think he's insane because of the differences between penguin and human cogitation. Opus has returned, after all.

Looking at the Netherese equipment list sparked a question for Ed, though: if it is possible to answer in less than forty pages and without footnotes in six languages, when did stirrups first come to be used in various parts of the Forgotten Realms. They were apparently unknown in Netheril.




I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.


Edited by - Jamallo Kreen on 06 Apr 2006 01:45:59
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2006 :  01:57:38  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
It happens only once a century, and it happened this morning. Where were YOU at 01:02:03 04/05/06, hmmm?

Seriously, I have technology on the brain this afternoon, it seems, and this interesting little calendrical phenomenon raises some questions which may have been answered already. (If so, will someone please direct me to the answer?)

I have seen waterclocks mentioned more than once in novels set in Faerun, and Aurora's sells candles marked by the hour, but are mechanical clocks used by the natives of Toril, and if so, in what regions, what do they look like (just an hour hand or more signifiers?), how accurate are they, and what are their various sizes? Are mechanical devices which show Selune and the planets in their relative positions known, and if so, etc. etc.?

I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4768 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2006 :  02:04:48  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

It happens only once a century, and it happened this morning. Where were YOU at 01:02:03 04/05/06, hmmm?



Ummm, just what happened?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2006 :  02:23:28  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

It happens only once a century, and it happened this morning. Where were YOU at 01:02:03 04/05/06, hmmm?



Ummm, just what happened?

-- George Krashos




The time and date (at least in American format) were 1,2,3,4,5,6.

If you missed it, don’t forget the upcoming 01:02:03 05/07/11 and 02:04:06 08/10/12. The latter should be especially significant since the world (or at least the Mayan calendar) is supposed to come to end on the winter solstice in 2012.

I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe

USA
252 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2006 :  02:45:11  Show Profile  Visit Mkhaiwati's Homepage Send Mkhaiwati a Private Message
quote:
I have seen waterclocks mentioned more than once in novels set in Faerun, and Aurora's sells candles marked by the hour, but are mechanical clocks used by the natives of Toril, and if so, in what regions, what do they look like (just an hour hand or more signifiers?), how accurate are they, and what are their various sizes? Are mechanical devices which show Selune and the planets in their relative positions known, and if so, etc. etc.?


I am curious about this, too. In the Real World, most medieval clocks had the time as a by-product of what the creator was really wanting. The typical function of the early clocks was either to determine the special days such as when Easter happens or used in astronomy with moving heavens. A 40 foot Chinese waterclock had a rotating star map and planetary models, in 1090 AD.

I would be curious to see how and why the clocks were created, and what they were created for. Is the determination of time the original function of the clock?

Thanks for this add-on to the question.

Mkhaiwati

"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."

"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  01:58:31  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, fellow scribes. Ed makes reply to createvmind AND Lauzoril, to whit:
Ed responds to Lauzoril’s snipped comments on the Finnish translation of Elminster in Myth Drannor, and his queries: “Has the exact circumstances been told or will they be told when and why Elminster stumbled into the spell trap which immobilised him for years, resulting him not being present in Myth Drannor's fall? Particularly how soon after leaving Drannor he did it?” and “How do Drow handle the waste disposal, generally?”
and to the first of createvmind’s March 15th flood of questions (leaving the spell queries for later): “Rereading "Temptation of Elminster" I was curious as to whether Mystra caused his whole stasis thing so that he wouldn't have gone down trying to prevent the various events that occured, Fall of Myth Drannor in particular. Since all it took was adventurers to stumble upon him, surely Mystra could have "guided" others to where El was as well, was this her way of keeping him safe till he could mature into the Chosen we have currently?”
Ed replies:



Lauzoril, glad to hear you and your mother liked ELMINSTER IN MYTH DRANNOR. And I’m glad the translation was “perfect,” too! No, the exact circumstances haven’t yet been told when and why Elminster stumbled into the spell trap - - and I’m not sure if I’ll get the chance to tell them in print, or when. I can tell you and createvmind this much: Bingo!
createvmind, your speculations are EXACTLY right. It was indeed Mystra’s “trap” and subterfuge; she knew he’d throw his own life away in the fighting, spilling her silver fire (forever), and didn’t want that to happen. We don’t yet know how soon it befell him after departing Myth Drannor [ahem: meaning there’s an NDA regarding El and Alais], but we DO know that this is something Mystra arranged. I was WONDERING when someone would think about that and wonder why the all-powerful goddess of magic couldn’t just spring Elminster by ordering and guiding one of her Chosen or the nearest wizard or sorcerer to go and free him. :}
Now, as to drow and waste disposal: “junk” wastes often just get dumped in the Underdark to attract monsters for drow to hunt and slay or for scavengers to pick up; drow bodies tend to get fed to beasts or burned to ash in Lolth-worshipping cities to eliminate evidence, or fed to spiders (sometimes while alive, and immobilized) as punishment; and kitchen scraps and excrement get fed to the right sorts of fungi, that consume them while growing more of themselves, that either (depending on the type) glow brightly as lamps for the drow, or shoot forth edible growths that the drow harvest for their dinner tables (some fungi have “blooms” like broccoli, and some grow “caps” like mushrooms; either sort can be severed, sliced and fried with spices, or boiled to mush in stews).



So saith Ed. Who’s never felt very hungry while visiting drow cities anyway.
love to all,
THO
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1273 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  04:06:44  Show Profile Send Skeptic a Private Message
Wow..

What is better than a answered question to Ed? One that you completly forgot about
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1144 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  04:14:48  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message
Two questions if you don't mind....

1. Is there a competition between the merchantile activities of the Zhentarim and the Red Wizards of Thay's new salesmanship? Or are they more symbiotic?

2. Just how much power does the Black Network wield across Faerun?

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4768 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  04:31:23  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
Umm, Elminster did fight against the Army of Darkness and participate in the Weeping War. Right up until the Battle of Silversgate when he was thrown into the planes after sealing the gate between Myth Drannor and Silverymoon - the same one that the Nameless Chosen (Khelben) also passed through, ending up gravely wounded in the Gem of the North. See "The Fall of Myth Drannor", p.27.

What I've always thought strange, given the above, was that Elminster didn't hightail it back to Myth Drannor as soon as he could. All we know is that he gets thrown into the Planes sometime during the Weeping War and ends up in a Netherese tomb after 714 DR. His trip with Alais occurs before the Weeping War, but he obviously returns to the city some time after that. Did Mystra strip him of his memories re the Weeping War to preserve the most beloved of her Chosen? He certainly seems quite befuddled when he does get back to Myth Drannor in "The Temptation of Elminster" and doesn't appear to know what has happened there. Mind you, he also doesn't react in horror to the destruction of the city. If that novel vignette shows his reaction to first becoming aware of the City of Songs' destruction, then it doesn't somehow seem 'right'. He takes it all too well if that is the case.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2872 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  04:33:42  Show Profile
A pair of questions for Ed:

1) What about body modification in the Realms? We know that at least ear piercings exist, but what about nose or lip piercings? Are ear piercings only used in high society for earrings? Or, to put it another way, any cases of bone fragments being used for piercings? How about other forms of modification, such as scarification or corsetry?

2) Any details you can share on Kururn Blackalblade(see page 150 of Power of Faerun), or will those have to wait until the Border Kingdoms series reaches Blackablade the town? Oh, and please say there's an entry on the Realm of the Smoking Star on the way!
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  20:40:25  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Thank you for the answer and glad to be gaining some insight into the mind of your greatness.

Thank you as well Master Krashos, where exactly can this lore be found that you speak of?

May the lore keep coming.
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2006 :  21:08:30  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by createvmind

Thank you for the answer and glad to be gaining some insight into the mind of your greatness.

Thank you as well Master Krashos, where exactly can this lore be found that you speak of?

May the lore keep coming.



George did say, it's in the Fall of Myth Drannor and he gave a page #.....

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2006 :  00:51:08  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
Ed, Steven Schend's "Candlekeep Collection" article names several Volo's Guides which are currently unknown to us. Are there currently plans afoot (or aswim or acrawl or whatever) to publish these? They are:

Volo's Guide to the Bloodstone Lands 1360-1362 unreleased (held by peoples unknown)


Volo's Guide to Calimport 1364-1365 notes & old draft; all final drafts destroyed by pashas and Rundeen agents


Volo's Guide to the Moonsea 1357-1358 unreleased and suppressed by Zhentarim agents


Volo's Guide to the Vast 1358-1360 unreleased (held by someone in Ravens Bluff)


Volo's Guide to Westgate & the Dragon Coast 1362-1363 commission work held by a noble of Yhaunn



I think I speak (er … write) for a multitude of your fans when I say that we'd love to see these, Ed!


I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2006 :  01:01:06  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, all. Ed tackles some more of createvmind’s questions: “Does a magic user notice when a wild magic area is possibly manifesting (weave seems more concentrated, sporadic, porous, not continously even or flowing like outside of spawning wild magic area) can they notice when a dead magic area is manifesting such as a "thinning of the weave" or do dead magic areas occur instantly from whatever previously named reasons?”
Ed replies:



Generally, no: magic users can’t see or feel that a wild magic or a dead magic area is manifesting. There are certain ‘homespun’ spells that try to examine and make visible Weave flows, but these are VERY short-range and unreliable (it’s like thrusting your head into the full glare of an overhead streetlight from about a foot away and trying to see the pattern of the joining filaments at the back of the bulb). Spellfire users, some sensitive people and sorcerers employing certain spells, CAN feel Weave flows (as tinglings or even shudderings), but that doesn’t mean they’ll “guess right” as to the reasons for flow fluctuations (there are many), unless they already know a wild or dead magic area exists in the locale, and they’re just trying to find its precise location. Both sorts of magic areas usually come into existence violently and spectacularly (that is, as a result of causes or effects that a magic user can readily see and in fact would find it very hard to ignore), but if they are already in existence, they’re usually invisible and found only “the hard way” (for example, a hurled spell suddenly stops in midair, or twists into something unexpected).



So saith Ed. Who of course created wild magic AND dead magic areas in the Realms before there was a D&D game.
love to all,
THO
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29790 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2006 :  01:08:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

Ed, Steven Schend's "Candlekeep Collection" article names several Volo's Guides which are currently unknown to us. Are there currently plans afoot (or aswim or acrawl or whatever) to publish these? They are:

Volo's Guide to the Bloodstone Lands 1360-1362 unreleased (held by peoples unknown)


Volo's Guide to Calimport 1364-1365 notes & old draft; all final drafts destroyed by pashas and Rundeen agents


Volo's Guide to the Moonsea 1357-1358 unreleased and suppressed by Zhentarim agents


Volo's Guide to the Vast 1358-1360 unreleased (held by someone in Ravens Bluff)


Volo's Guide to Westgate & the Dragon Coast 1362-1363 commission work held by a noble of Yhaunn



I think I speak (er … write) for a multitude of your fans when I say that we'd love to see these, Ed!





Steven Schend offered up this bit of lore on those other Volo titles:

quote:
And Wooly, those lists of Volo's prospective manuscripts (published, suppressed, or conjectured) came from my listing of what manuscripts were in Candlekeep. No, there's no plans to write any of them, nor were they ever in the planning in real-world ways. They were simply in-world expectations as to what the old boy would be up to and what might've occurred as a result...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2006 :  01:20:18  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
*sigh* I love Volo's Guides. Thanks (sniff) for telling me, though.

I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2006 :  01:22:41  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
Once again I beleaguer Ed with voluminous questions about money -- specifically, coins. Some of these questions have been answered before, but I would appreciate it if Ed could add to the information and give us some monumentally definitive Realmslore. This is a long post which I don't expect to have answered in detail any time soon. For the sake of those who have no abiding interest in the excruciating minutiae of numismatics, I give the crux of the questions at the beginning and the details of what inspired the question in the corresponding numbered paragraphs below. I hope that this format will be easier on the eyes (and brains) of other folk, since I am asking Ed a series of questions which could generate a book's worth of answers.

1. Would Ed please give us more up-to-date rates of exchange for Tethyr than those in Empires of the Sands?

2. What are regional language (not Common) names for typical coin types such as heads, shields, etc.?

3. Are there coin names which derive from an ancient but non-current standard of worth (e.g., a Thayan golden cow or fey golden goose)?

4. Are there any coins on Toril which are "scyphate" (convex, cup-shaped domes instead of flat pieces of metal), a type common in Romaion (Byzantine) and ancient Germanic coinage? Mr. Underwood mentions the "hyper" of Raven's Bluff, whose name I take to have been Inspired by the Romaion "hyperpyron," or "super-refined" gold coin. What Realms coins, if any, have names which describe their their fineness (purity of metal)?

5. What locales on Toril have produced so much gold or silver (or at least minted so much of it) that their local coin names have become nearly universal, even for coins from other cities or countries? Did the large numbers of Damara bloodstone trade bars ever prompt any other jurisdiction to issue actual coins worth 25 gold pieces?

6. Is any coinage in the Realms so omnipresent as to have utterly permeated the languages of other countries? (Example: "Shave and a hair cut, two fandars"?)

7. Are there minted coins (other than the Waterdhavian toal) which derive their value solely from local usage or local decree?

8. Are there Torilian coins which derive their worth from some ritual such as the casting of a Nystul's magic aura on them?

9. In what regions is the striking of coins a jealously guarded national monopoly? Are there Realms areas where there is so much mineral wealth that -- of necessity -- whoever mines it mints it?


And now, whence came these questions:

While poking through the Forgotten Realms file on my hard drive I found a download of an old GeoCities page by Rick Underwood, written originally in May of 1995. Mr. Underwood attempted to compile and chart the various references to coin types mentioned in TSR Forgotten Realms products and fill in some gaps. Unfortunately, my copy of the page indicates that he was no longer updating it, and some of his usages have been supplanted in 3E (and not always for the better).

Mr. Underwood did a fine job, but some of the coin names just don't ring true to me. "Dollar," for instance, is a perfectly good Earth name, but it is ultimately derived from the name of a Bohemian silver mine and the name is very unlikely to exist as such (or in any of its half-dozen or so variants) on Toril.

Another example is the Silverymoon copper "farthing" on Mr. Underwood's page. A farthing is a fourth part of something, and I don't know of any Realms copper coin which is the fourth part of anything in particular -- they are all standard D&D tenths of a silver piece, as far as I know. He does, however, mention the Silverymoon electrum "moon" which he valued at 2.5 silver pieces -- the perfect "farthing" to a gold piece; unfortunately, the "moon" is listed in Silver Marches as a two gold piece coin, which is inexplicable to me, since such a coin would certainly be yellow gold and in no way "silvery," as electrum often is, or as platinum would be.

1. For the benefit of the DM without a handy pocket calculator, abacus, or Rain Man, Mr. Underwood gave the approximate (then-current) value of Tethyran gold coins in silver pieces -- a "zoth" of Saradush is/was worth approximately six typical silver pieces, presumably as a result of siege and amok Bhaalspawn, but the Zazesspur "gulder" came in at nine typical silver pieces, presumably because of the greater wealth and political stability of that city. Now that Tethyr once again has a strong central monarchy, its coinage has presumably stabilized. Would Ed please give us more up-to-date rates of exchange than those in Empires of the Sands?

2. Many common Earth coin names derive from descriptions of the images or mottoes on the coins or their shape, metal, weight, etc., and here Mr. Underwood's usage is perfectly fine, but will Ed please help us out by honing the terms to greater precision by regional language? While I decry the use of the world "dollar" for a Realms coin, "penny" is a good choice; crudely translated, it means "heads" and originally described a coin with a ruler's image on it. "Florin" stems (please forgive the pun!) from the name of the city of Florence, but is perfectly fine for describing a coin with the image of a flower. "Shield" and "coat of arms" and appear as coin names, but there are undoubtedly Realms terms which fit better, which is to say, what's Illuskan or Chondathan or Untheric for those words, should a DM want to use the native terms and not the Common (i.e. English) names? We also have the "crown," "scroll," "talon," "orb," "laurel," and other words which are apparently descriptive of imagery on coins. "Scudo" for the name of a gold coin may sound exotic to the English ear, but it's just the Medieval Spanish/Italian word for "shield;" I suspect that it sounds as homespun to the ear of a native speaker of Romance languages as "crown" does to English speakers. Personally, as a DM I'd like to be able to use more exotic (i.e. local) names for coins when PCs leave their home town to suggest that the Realms are not as homogeneous as "copper piece," "silver piece," etc. make them sound. A gold "danter" is most certainly not a (mostly?) gold "zoth," and I'd like my players to realize that they have crossed a geopolitical boundary when the former starts disappearing from their hands and the latter starts showing up.
3. Also appearing on the coin list is "nomisma" of Thay. Master William Ridgeway (The Origin of Metallic Currency and weight Standards, 1892, republished 1976 by Attic Book, New York) tells me that "nomos" and its variations means, basically, "a standard weight unit," which, he theorizes, anciently meant so much silver or gold weight equal to the value of one sheep or one cow. Ed, dare we dream that there is a Thayan gold coin which (originally, at least) was the Golden Cow? (Do the fey have a coin called the Golden Goose?)

4. I'd certainly use "square," "moon" and "corner" for the square, round and triangular coins of Elturel (what the heck else would anyone call a square coin except "a square"?!). FRCS tells us that Sembian gold coins are five-sided, so presumably they are "pentagons" to most folk, but are there any coins on Toril which are "scyphate" (convex, cup-shaped domes instead of flat pieces of metal), a type common in Romaion (Byzantine) and ancient Germanic coinage? Mr. Underwood mentions the "hyper" of Raven's Bluff, whose name I take to have been Inspired by the Romaion "hyperpyron," or "super-refined" gold coin. What Realms coins, if any, have names which are described of their fineness (purity of metal)?

5. Now, about the "dollar" ... its name comes from the fabulously rich Bohemian silver mines of Joachimsthal, which produced so much silver for the Counts of Schlick that their local coin, the Joachimsthaler, its name shortened to "thaler," supplied the name for what was the standard silver coin of the entire world for hundreds of years. (Locally counterstruck thalers of the 18th century Austrian Empress Maria Theresa were still legal tender in some Arab and African countries until the middle of the 20th century, which exactly mirrors the use of Cormanythr's coinage in "modern" Faerun.) Ancient Athens had a source of wealth corresponding to Joachimsthal in the mines of Laurion, which produced so much silver for so many centuries that the principal silver coin of Athens, the "owl" became a standard of weight and fineness (like the medieval gold florin of Florence). (The obverse of the "owl," the image of Athena, is inexplicably shown at the bottom of the 2nd edition City of Splendors map.) My question, Ed, is what locales on Toril have produced so much gold or silver (or at least minted so much of it) that their local coin names have become nearly universal, even for coins from other cities or countries? I suspect that "danter" is gaining in popularity, especially since the "discovery" of Maztica and the flow of gold from there. Did the large numbers of Damara bloodstone trade bars ever prompt any other jurisdiction to issue actual coins worth 25 gold pieces?

6. I've mentioned elsewhere that the flow of New World silver to Spain was so huge that the US Constitution lists Spanish dollars as legal tender for the early USA, and that usage survives to this day in American slang, and until recently in the minimum price for a Wall Street stock: for small change Spanish dollars could be cut into in a "half dollar," which could be cut again into the "quarter," which was, in turn divisible into an eighth-dollar, or "piece of eight," alias "one bit," making the quarter worth "two bits;" until the dime was minted the smallest silver coin in the early USA was thus worth 12 1/2 cents, not ten cents, and the New York Stock exchange valued stocks by so many eighths of the dollar. Is any coinage in the Realms so omnipresent as to have utterly permeated the languages of other countries, Ed? "Shave and a hair cut, two fandars," maybe, or "not worth a thumb"? "Good as a gold lion"?

7. and 8. The Hooded One graciously passed on to us recently your words on how coins in the Realms are generally minted, which is apparently pretty much the same everywhere, but are there coins (other than the Waterdhavian toal) which derive their value solely from local usage or local decree? I'm thinking principally of coins made from unusual materials (porcelain, perhaps) or with rarity which derives from some ritual, magical or otherwise? I have read that in the real world some southeast Asian coins (of good silver, too!) were not considered legal tender until they had been ritually bathed in a mixture of blood and egg yolk (or maybe just painted with red lacquer). Are there Torilian coins which derive their worth from some such act -- the casting of a Nystul's magic aura on them, for example?


9. Finally, Ed (yes, there is an end to the making of many questions!), we know that various cities of Calimshan mint their own coins to a national standard, but in what regions is the striking of coins a jealously guarded national monopoly? I would imagine that anyone in Sembia who had enough wealth could privately mint coins and have them accepted for some or all of their bullion value, but I'm equally certain that the Obarskyr's would take an extremely dim view of any nobles minting any sort of local coinage. Under the Caliphate in our world (and maybe still under the governments of some Muslim countries; ¿quien sabe?), the striking of coins with certain ritual phrases amounted to a declaration of independence. In the modern USA, issuing any circular bits of metal with the words, "e pluribus unum" or "in God we trust" would likely lead to a long prison stay, but in the 19th century, private mints struck gold "coins" in both North Carolina and California, because there was far more gold than there was legal coinage, and privately minting it was both the easiest way to calculate its value and also to ship it. Are there Realms areas where there is so much mineral wealth that -- of necessity -- whoever mines it mints it? (The thalers of the Counts of Schlick again come to mind.) Does private minting escape being "forgery" (counterfeiting) if the metal is rendered into trade bars and not into coins?


(This is what comes from giving Internet access to frustrated writers with private research libraries and ambitions of some day being paid by the word....)

I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Rowan
Acolyte

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2006 :  09:50:26  Show Profile  Visit Rowan's Homepage  Send Rowan an AOL message  Click to see Rowan's MSN Messenger address  Send Rowan a Yahoo! Message Send Rowan a Private Message
Just a quick question. The Old Grey Box was released by TSR in 1987, and here we are creeping up on 2007 slowly but surely. Ed, are you or WOTC planning anything special for the (technically) 20th anniversary of the Realms?

Also, I've seen it mentioned elsewhere on the web, and I'm just curious enough to ask: Will The Simbul and El have a child (or children)? Or have I hit another NDA?
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1144 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2006 :  10:01:26  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message
Could you tell us oh Sage what sort of position that Velsharoon occupies in your vision of the Realms? The Faiths and Pantheons book indicated that he hasn't had much luck recruiting Necromancers given Szass Tam is Zulkir of them (plus a former rival of his).

I was curious if he was on his way up or out given that Orcus is supposedly no longer a deity. However, the book also indicated that Myrkul is continuing to rebuild his cult (through the Crown of Horns), Velsharoon can't be benefitting from that.

So could you tell us what's up with him?

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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RevJest
Learned Scribe

USA
115 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2006 :  16:57:44  Show Profile  Visit RevJest's Homepage Send RevJest a Private Message
Chapter 13 of Oroon Rising is now online.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=insidewizards/dnd/article16
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