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 Who is the best spellcaster in the realms
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Ecap
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2008 :  07:07:41  Show Profile  Visit Ecap's Homepage  Send Ecap an AOL message Send Ecap a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Whoa!
A couple key Forgotten Realms players are being overlooked in this frenzy of uninformed opinion. Allow me to chime in:

Opinion: Elminster and his cronies (including spell-fire wielding Shandril) have "defeated" Manshoon on a couple ocacsions.
Fact: Despite being outnumbered, Mansoon fights back with dastardly cunning. He is dangerous enough to warrent being one of Elminsters primary foes.

Opinion: Manshoon has been "defeated"
Fact: Manshoon NEVER loses! He is prepared for EVERY possibility by an elite ressurection multiple-clone contingency - pretty much the ultimate spell!

Opinion: Manshoon is an evil, craven shell of a man.
Fact: You would HAVE to be, if you'd have any hope aligning mighty beholders, wealthy merchants, and the black fist of the zhentarim into one mighty force! Manshoon is so powerful and culturally enlightened that he has overcome the racism of one of Torils most xenophobic creatures - the beholders.

Also, how can we forget the eminent Szass Tam?
This lich has united Thay, and in doing so defeated the high council of Thayan over-mages! I'll bet the Simbul is shaking in her boots! Aglaronds defeat is imminent...

Also, the shrinshee doesn't seem that powerful. In a book detailing Elminsters younger years, the shrinshee is on the verge of defeat, embattled by a trio (I think) of amateurish elven mages. Elminster has to rescue her! (keep in mind, Elminster is not the powerful he is in Torils "present", this is close to the fall of Netheril, I believe).

Sink or Swim
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2008 :  14:32:48  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ecap
Also, the shrinshee doesn't seem that powerful. In a book detailing Elminsters younger years, the shrinshee is on the verge of defeat, embattled by a trio (I think) of amateurish elven mages.


Not having the text right in front of me, I can't agree or disagree with you here, but I will point out that just because one is not invulnerable does not mean they "aren't that powerful".

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Neil
Learned Scribe

Canada
107 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2008 :  15:52:14  Show Profile  Visit Neil's Homepage Send Neil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How does one define 'best'? Power? Endurance? Artistic impression? Complexity? Combat capability? Advancement of the field of magic? By what deeds were accomplished? Number and power of magical items crafted? Should there be consideration for an individual performance, as opposed to those spellcasters who have divine assistance? Is there perhaps a formula combining some or all of these factors?

In terms of combining these factors, maybe Laeral?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30084 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2008 :  03:44:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ecap

Opinion: Manshoon has been "defeated"
Fact: Manshoon NEVER loses! He is prepared for EVERY possibility by an elite ressurection multiple-clone contingency - pretty much the ultimate spell!



I hate to disagree, but survival is not the same as victory. Manshoon has been defeated a number of times, by a number of foes (including himself, with the Manshoon Wars!). Being the baddest cockroach of the Realms () does not make him undefeatable.

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Vangelor
Learned Scribe

USA
182 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2008 :  13:39:29  Show Profile  Visit Vangelor's Homepage Send Vangelor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
None of the above.

My vote is for the Srinshee.

How many mages can you name who recover from undeath?

Szass Tam may be all that, but face it: at the end of the day he is still a walking corpse.
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1074 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  13:54:51  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Shrinshee, Zsazz Tam and Manshoon would all fall before Larloch!
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3524 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  13:59:54  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With the recent events I would change my vote to Szass Tam.

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2894 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2008 :  15:27:04  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Halaster.


BRIMSTONE

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Draezen
Seeker

25 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2008 :  11:24:43  Show Profile  Visit Draezen's Homepage  Send Draezen an ICQ Message Send Draezen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
According to the possible choices at the index post, it would be Karsus. However, I'd prefer Ioulaum or Larloch.

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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2008 :  14:27:45  Show Profile  Visit Ionik Knight's Homepage Send Ionik Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'ld say Halaster is the most powerful, not the most effective mind you--just the most powerful.

Ionik Knight

Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd.
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe

USA
387 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2008 :  20:53:19  Show Profile  Visit Nerfed2Hell's Homepage Send Nerfed2Hell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The most powerful spellcaster? Its me, the DM... when I walk in the Realms, even the gods fear my power.

Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile.
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bolf66
Seeker

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2009 :  18:09:18  Show Profile  Visit bolf66's Homepage Send bolf66 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hello everyone I'm accually quite new to candlekeep and most of my lore comes from the novels but I would like to say that if we exclude people like larlock who I personaly think is the best I think that it has to be halaster simply because there all crazy powerful but he's the most unperdictable

perception is the real truth
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3524 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2009 :  20:36:26  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thats 3 more votes for Halaster!

After reading Shadowrealm.....it could very well be Rivalen Tanthul, after all how many others spellcasters are walking around with a....(highlight to see possible spoiler if you have not read it) :A piece of Mask's hidden divintiy. If you think about his power before, he would be nigh impossible to best. Look what the same power allowed Riven to be able to do to Mephistophles in his own home, and he was no where near Rivalens power before then.

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

Edited by - The Red Walker on 05 Feb 2009 20:37:58
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Five_X
Acolyte

12 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2009 :  05:39:55  Show Profile  Visit Five_X's Homepage Send Five_X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gaaah! It was tough choosing between completely insane (but totally hardcore) Halaster, or Szass Tam, the most powerful Red Wizard. But Szass won out. Sorry, Halaster!
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swifty
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
517 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2009 :  09:48:02  Show Profile  Visit swifty's Homepage Send swifty a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Ecap

Opinion: Manshoon has been "defeated"
Fact: Manshoon NEVER loses! He is prepared for EVERY possibility by an elite ressurection multiple-clone contingency - pretty much the ultimate spell!



I hate to disagree, but survival is not the same as victory. Manshoon has been defeated a number of times, by a number of foes (including himself, with the Manshoon Wars!). Being the baddest cockroach of the Realms () does not make him undefeatable.

manshoon maybe a bad cockroach but he cried in spellfire when the shadowsil was killed.

go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS.
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skychrome
Senior Scribe

713 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2009 :  02:01:03  Show Profile  Visit skychrome's Homepage Send skychrome a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I vote for Vhostym the Sojourner or Elminster!

"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625
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swifty
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
517 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2009 :  16:10:25  Show Profile  Visit swifty's Homepage Send swifty a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Draezen

According to the possible choices at the index post, it would be Karsus. However, I'd prefer Ioulaum or Larloch.

who is ioulaum

go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2009 :  16:33:21  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We know next to nothing about Ioulaum. Even the material that provides us with the 'best information' is the Netheril boxed set -- with all its drawbacks and failings. I'm sure there is much, much more to learn about Ioulaum.

For all we know, he was the Mystryl equivalent of a Chosen of Mystra.

And to make things more interesting, he might not have known that he was. Maybe just like Karsus didn't know...

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swifty
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
517 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2009 :  17:23:29  Show Profile  Visit swifty's Homepage Send swifty a Private Message  Reply with Quote
is he known to be still alive.

go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS.
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Ghost King
Learned Scribe

USA
253 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2009 :  23:04:05  Show Profile  Visit Ghost King's Homepage Send Ghost King a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think in the Underdark Sourcebook Ioulaum is a massive brain that has a cabal of Mind Flayers and other monsterous creatures do his bidding. I forget the name, I think they are called Overminds or something to that effect... Perhaps another sage here might have the answer to that, because I am currently unable to access that book.

Edited by - Ghost King on 30 Mar 2009 23:04:41
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2009 :  07:43:43  Show Profile  Visit Edain Shadowstar's Homepage Send Edain Shadowstar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost King:

I think in the Underdark Sourcebook Ioulaum is a massive brain that has a cabal of Mind Flayers and other monsterous creatures do his bidding. I forget the name, I think they are called Overminds or something to that effect... Perhaps another sage here might have the answer to that, because I am currently unable to access that book.


The book in question which describes Ioulaum's current status is Lost Empires of Faerun, page 101, wherein it describes that following his conversion to lichdom in the dying days of Netheril (the lifedrain spells of the phaerimm having disrupted his other life-extending magics) he left Netheril and went off to train a variety of apprentices, including illithids from the city of Ellyn'tal (presumed to be the first illithiliches). Eventually he used his illithid students to create an undead elder brain and then merged himself with it. He remains, as the Oracle of Ellyn'tal, in the abandoned city in the form of a giant undead brain with some 41 class levels and, presumably, lots of free time.

Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep


"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General
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Ghost King
Learned Scribe

USA
253 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2009 :  08:10:31  Show Profile  Visit Ghost King's Homepage Send Ghost King a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm, LEoF had it. Guess I should reread my books sometime because it seems I'm mix matching details. Thank you, Edain Shadowstar, very informative and for taking the time to find that detail. Heh, lots of free times on his hand. Who would have thought?
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe

173 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2009 :  14:38:52  Show Profile  Visit The Simbul's Homepage Send The Simbul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You should use the common names of the characters foremost, with their more esoteric names in parenthesis. For example, a great number of people know of The Simbul, but do not know that she born Alassra Shentrantra Silverhand.

Also, why is Vangy on the list when the Srinshee, Qysar Shoon, Ioulaum, Larloch, Aumvor, Saharel, the Sojourner, and others are excluded?
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edappel
Learned Scribe

Brazil
211 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2009 :  20:40:34  Show Profile  Click to see edappel's MSN Messenger address Send edappel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought about Szass Tam, specially after The Haunted Lands Trilogy..

But Karsus is Karsus.

--- Ed Appel

*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english.
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SeeDiGi
Seeker

Bermuda
34 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2009 :  23:26:10  Show Profile  Visit SeeDiGi's Homepage Send SeeDiGi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
karsus was the most powerful. no one can cast that spell again.
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