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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1063 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2006 :  02:56:13  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Who is the best spellcaster in the realms ? its Vhostym from the Erevis Cale Trilogy.


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Silvanus79
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USA
58 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2006 :  17:36:12  Show Profile  Visit Silvanus79's Homepage Send Silvanus79 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My vote goes to Elminster. Hands down, he is the greatest wizard in the Realms. When looking at this subject, one has to take more than sheer power into account. Obviously, all of these archwizards have access to ungodly amounts of magical items, so I won't go there, but experience-wise, El takes the cake.

Wizards aren't all fireballs and meteor swarms and words of power. In this debate, we need to factor in utilitarian ability, as well. And, in my opinion, Elminster is always ready for anything, whether it be a fight or a puzzle or some political situation. No matter what, the Old Mage has an answer for everything. And if he doesn't, his words have so much credibility that he can just "wing it," and still be taken at face value.

Now, in all fairness, Larloch and those other uberliches are great powers, but I don't think they can stand up to Elminster in a toe to toe fight, simply because El will have some sort of unexpected trick up his sleeve. He's a Chosen of the goddess of magic. Elminster has more knowledge of the Weave than any other spellcaster alive today, and he would prevail over anyone.

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szasstamsgroupie
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USA
16 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2006 :  15:38:21  Show Profile  Visit szasstamsgroupie's Homepage  Send szasstamsgroupie a Yahoo! Message Send szasstamsgroupie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Uh, duh! Szass Tam! Look at the name!

Talk nerdy to me, baby!
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Entreri1000
Seeker

Canada
26 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2006 :  15:30:22  Show Profile  Visit Entreri1000's Homepage Send Entreri1000 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Vhostym from the Erevis Cale Trilogy"

At first I also thought this as well. But in the books, it says that Elminister may beat him.

Nothing Vhostym has done is beyond a level 30 mage. I don't think Vhostym is a level 40 mage, at most level 35-36. Keep in mind that he has psionic powers...Greater age does not necessarily equal greater power: Halaster 4000 years old, level 30 mage, Sammaster roughly 300 years old (only active for 200 years or so) level 30 mage.

Reading some of the latest novels, Sammaster sounded more impressive than Vhostym. Sammaster was easily killing ancient dragons (be it gold or silver, and thought he could defeat a dozen of them by himself) and transformed into a titanic dragolich...
Larloch's definitely feels more impressive than Vhostym, just read Larloch's write up.
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Neonai
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Turkey
34 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2006 :  01:06:17  Show Profile  Visit Neonai's Homepage Send Neonai a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yeah lorloch kicks butt. however he was stronger in 2nd ed.

halaster blackcloak is a formidable maniac and too strong like a cheat.

and my new favourite enigmatic "shade lord". neutral evil prevails

hehe, man, ancient netheril wizards are keep coming back. "karsus, karsus."
I dont know if its cannon but read somewhere on net that karsus is now resurrected and he is strong as hell. he invented arcanist prestige class and training subordinates in his enclave to fight against shade lord. if you can find, just read it, more powerful than many demi powers guess

comparing these guys sammaster is just a kid. and dead if m not mistaken .
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2006 :  04:37:49  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Neonai

yeah lorloch kicks butt. however he was stronger in 2nd ed.

halaster blackcloak is a formidable maniac and too strong like a cheat.

and my new favourite enigmatic "shade lord". neutral evil prevails

hehe, man, ancient netheril wizards are keep coming back. "karsus, karsus."
I dont know if its cannon but read somewhere on net that karsus is now resurrected and he is strong as hell. he invented arcanist prestige class and training subordinates in his enclave to fight against shade lord. if you can find, just read it, more powerful than many demi powers guess

comparing these guys sammaster is just a kid. and dead if m not mistaken .



I believe your reference to Karsus coming back is non-canon. After what happened before, I don't think anyone would let him come back to life!

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Neonai
Seeker

Turkey
34 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2006 :  09:20:09  Show Profile  Visit Neonai's Homepage Send Neonai a Private Message  Reply with Quote
true resurrection was said to be used by an elven cleric guess. and it was said that his enclave is floating over somewhere around halrua. but like you said it is more possible that he is still dead. and probably drifting in astral plane.
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2006 :  16:51:23  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Neonai

true resurrection was said to be used by an elven cleric guess. and it was said that his enclave is floating over somewhere around halrua. but like you said it is more possible that he is still dead. and probably drifting in astral plane.



None of this is canon. I can't recall anything like this from official material. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Edited by - Kuje on 27 Oct 2006 17:02:07
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2006 :  16:58:25  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Neonai

true resurrection was said to be used by an elven cleric guess. and it was said that his enclave is floating over somewhere around halrua. but like you said it is more possible that he is still dead. and probably drifting in astral plane.



None of this is canon. I can't recall anything like this is official material. :)



Ditto. And I certainly would have noted something like this, especially since I am rather fond of Halruaa!

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Marc
Senior Scribe

618 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2006 :  17:04:47  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Neonai

true resurrection was said to be used by an elven cleric guess. and it was said that his enclave is floating over somewhere around halrua. but like you said it is more possible that he is still dead. and probably drifting in astral plane.



At WotC forum every week someone wants to resurrect Karsus so it's not official, Eileanar was destroyed along with other enclaves, and also Karsus cannot be resurrected by conventional means, he's fragmented in three parts (and one is in Shar's clutch), and if you check Powers and Pantheons you'll see it's almost impossible (almost is reserved for novel authors but with lot of comebacks in 3E it would be unoriginal i.e. unlikely)

.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2006 :  17:10:50  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Neonai

true resurrection was said to be used by an elven cleric guess. and it was said that his enclave is floating over somewhere around halrua. but like you said it is more possible that he is still dead. and probably drifting in astral plane.



None of this is canon. I can't recall anything like this is official material. :)



Ditto. And I certainly would have noted something like this, especially since I am rather fond of Halruaa!

Agreed.

While we know Halruaa has some connections to ancient Netheril, something like this would've been exclusively mentioned had it been a canon reference in official Realmslore.

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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe

Canada
956 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2006 :  18:22:22  Show Profile  Visit Kalin Agrivar's Homepage  Click to see Kalin Agrivar's MSN Messenger address Send Kalin Agrivar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Maruluthu Mistrivvin
At WotC forum every week someone wants to resurrect Karsus so it's not official, Eileanar was destroyed along with other enclaves, and also Karsus cannot be resurrected by conventional means, he's fragmented in three parts (and one is in Shar's clutch), and if you check Powers and Pantheons you'll see it's almost impossible (almost is reserved for novel authors but with lot of comebacks in 3E it would be unoriginal i.e. unlikely)



I'v never really understood the need to ressurect Karsus...he is of much better use as a historical figure and his Folly is a source of endless hooks and ideas...it would cheapen his story to ressurect him as a "wiser" Karsus...

plus we have had enough "ressuections" of ancient threats for a while now

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Rautherimnon
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2006 :  09:01:35  Show Profile  Visit Rautherimnon's Homepage  Click to see Rautherimnon's MSN Messenger address Send Rautherimnon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertArchlichs and baelnorns are two types of lich that are good-aligned. Alatheene Moonstar, in Waterdeep, is an archlich. I can't recall any named baelnorns off the top of my head, but Kuje's NPC list surely names a couple.


Corineus from the Return of the Archwizards trilogy? A survivor from the glory of Myth Drannor, I believe.

Rautherimnon
Wiz10/Sha7/Dev3/Acm1 NE Moon Elf of Gargauth
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Entreri1000
Seeker

Canada
26 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2006 :  14:36:52  Show Profile  Visit Entreri1000's Homepage Send Entreri1000 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can see Grandmaster Kane taking out a lot of these archmages.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2006 :  23:10:57  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Entreri1000

I can see Grandmaster Kane taking out a lot of these archmages.



With all due respect, I'm rather tired of hearing this guy plugged. His powers as described in the recent novel ("Road of the Patriarch") are either the standard powers that any monk of the appropriate level obtains, or they come from his toys. Granted, he'd be a high level, but I haven't read anywhere that he's the most powerful monk/warrior in the Realms.

And many of these archmages would not fight an enemy on that enemy's terms.

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Twilight
Seeker

Canada
68 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2006 :  07:47:11  Show Profile  Visit Twilight's Homepage Send Twilight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elminster But Halaster is the coolest
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Romaal
Seeker

Germany
22 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2006 :  20:54:42  Show Profile Send Romaal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think Elminster is the mightiest Wizard (I think he also has the highest level so it seems clear to me, but maybe I'm just wrong).
Furthermore, Elminster is the Gandalf of the Realms and I liked Gandalf a lot ;)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2006 :  00:27:43  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Romaal

I think Elminster is the mightiest Wizard (I think he also has the highest level so it seems clear to me, but maybe I'm just wrong).
Furthermore, Elminster is the Gandalf of the Realms and I liked Gandalf a lot ;)

Just be careful with that comparison...

As Ed has told us:-

"He owes a little bit to the Old Storyteller of Thornton W. Burgess, a little bit to Merlin, a little bit to Gandalf, a trifle to Fagin, a trifle to the literary character Glencannon, a little bit more to the real-life (and long since sadly deceased) English comedian Michael Flanders, and so on.

He's more Merlin than he is Gandalf or Belgarathin fact, if you look at Nicol Williamson 's portrayal of Merlin in the movie Excalibur, remove the skullcap, and change the red hair to dark brown, the result will be pretty close to Elminster's whimsical behaviour and general looks; Old El of course predates the movie, too."

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SAEDA007
Acolyte

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2006 :  00:31:32  Show Profile  Visit SAEDA007's Homepage Send SAEDA007 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted Elminster.

He is powerfull not only because of magic, but he also posesses Spellfire (as I have just read in the novel "Crown of Fire").

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Tacoma, WA
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barry
Seeker

South Africa
27 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2006 :  10:58:14  Show Profile  Visit barry's Homepage  Click to see barry's MSN Messenger address Send barry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you take out their god given abilities such as the silver fire thing and immunities,then would that change your view? I think it should. Remember that El and the outher chosen have almonst perished had it not been for these gifts.

As for specs , it should play a role and remenber there has not been details of Lord Shade & Iloaum specs put into publication.

And will they ever be?
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Lord Karsus
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USA
2879 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2006 :  05:38:27  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kalin Agrivar
I'v never really understood the need to ressurect Karsus...he is of much better use as a historical figure and his Folly is a source of endless hooks and ideas...it would cheapen his story to ressurect him as a "wiser" Karsus...

plus we have had enough "ressuections" of ancient threats for a while now



-It is very possible that Karsus simply cannot be brought back to life. His soul was sundered in three. Firstly, the Resurrection spell brings a soul back into the body. Technically, Karsus does not have a soul anymore. Furthermore, reuniting his tripartite soul may cause him to become a demigod of sorts, as he did/does still have some lingering divine essence in him. Bringing his soul together might simply allow him to pass on and die, which then might make the Resurrection possible.

quote:
Originally posted by barry
As for specs , it should play a role and remenber there has not been details of Lord Shade & Iloaum specs put into publication.

And will they ever be?


-Telamont Tanthul had his 3e stats written up in Lords of Darkness. Lord Shadow, who is probably not the same person as Telamont Tanthul, was given 2e stats in Netheril: Empire of Magic. Ioulaum was given 2e stats in Netheril: Empire of Magic and 3e stats in Lost Empires of Faern.

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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2006 :  06:32:17  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion

-Telamont Tanthul had his 3e stats written up in Lords of Darkness. Lord Shadow, who is probably not the same person as Telamont Tanthul, was given 2e stats in Netheril: Empire of Magic.


Actually 3/3.5e material has made it clear that these are the same beings.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Morhion
Acolyte

3 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2006 :  17:47:17  Show Profile  Visit Morhion's Homepage Send Morhion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
I dont know if its cannon but read somewhere on net that karsus is now resurrected and he is strong as hell. he invented arcanist prestige class and training subordinates in his enclave to fight against shade lord. if you can find, just read it, more powerful than many demi powers guess

If it's the same one you're talking of, then I know it's non-canon, since I wrote it. It's since been redone by others, and slashed all to bits from the original concept I had (that being Karsus's 'ressurection' being the result of a seriously warped elf (to the point he couldn't really be considered "elf") seeking retribution.). And it wasn't actually suppose to be Karsus...

Edited by - Morhion on 15 Nov 2006 17:48:06
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe

USA
418 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2006 :  17:48:00  Show Profile  Visit dwarvenranger's Homepage Send dwarvenranger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For sure it's someone, or something nobody knows of, and that's the way it should be I'm thinkin.

If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2006 :  22:47:25  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger

For sure it's someone, or something nobody knows of, and that's the way it should be I'm thinkin.



That's very possible. We don't know everything.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
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