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Sandro
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
266 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2009 :  09:19:33  Show Profile  Click to see Sandro's MSN Messenger address Send Sandro a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All things considered, I've gotta say it's either Ioulaum or Karsus, especially considering the fact that they're that powerful without the aid of Mystra/yl, though one must wonder how strong El would be if he had access to the Nether scrolls...

"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..."
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe

Germany
542 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2009 :  14:08:57  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro

All things considered, I've gotta say it's either Ioulaum or Karsus


If you break it down to these two it would be Ioulaum, he is much older than Karsus and was the mightiest netherese Archmage long before Karsus was born.
Karsus was very giftet with magic too but he had the mind of a child which never heard a 'no' in his whole life and mostly the people in his enclave thought him godlike but in other enclaves it was diffrent. He was definitly one of the mightiest netherese archmages but not THE mightiest.

A good example for this is when the city of Karsus and Ioulaum declar war on each other out of boredom and htey think it would be some fun. Although Ioulaum disappered at the begining of the war (because of the phaerim life draining magic as we know now) it doesn't run well for Karsus and his enclave and than it ends with him trying to achive godhood.

I for myself can't understand all the hype around him after I read Dangerous Games

Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 19 Nov 2009 14:09:42
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1074 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2009 :  22:13:24  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elminster has great power considering that he has the greatest grace of mystra and spells and power only given to him. That said one must think of the fact that Larloch is completely immune to all magic and psyonics. Being about 2000 years old, and having spent most of his time searching and studying magic one must simply rialise the truth... Larloch can not be killed by any spellcaster!!!!! He is cunning, fast, desicive wise and ever leaning the secrets of the weave. Enough said.

Karsus well powerful yes, talented yes, but great... hmm He did cast Avartar with good intentions but it was not a well though through spell. It worked all to well!

Ioulaum... Creator of the Mythallars, power boyond all other Netheril mages, a master of psyonics. He is now an undead elder brain, which is CR 28 and then ad 41 levels of spellcating... That to me summes things up nicely.

The Shrinhee... Old, extremely wise, and deep in the knowledge of the art. And one of only a few existing today who have studyed the Nether Scrolls the longest after transformed into the golden beach tree. Power to pass out of all knowledge for 700 years and then appear at the right place and time.

So to sume op things...
1st. place: Larloch
2nd. place: Shrinshee
3ed. place: Elminster
4th. place: Karsus

I have chosen this order because I feel that these 4 masters of the Art are the best example of a mix of wisdom, inteligence, and sheer power. The winner is Larloch thou.

The Terraseer, Telemont, Halaster, Simbul and so on did not make the list. Why... well I dont think that they are as powerful, wise or inteligent as the before mentioned. They would however be on the list if the list was longer.

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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe

Germany
542 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2009 :  16:14:58  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Larloch is not imune to all magic and I got the impression that he is frightend about the choose of mystra because of their spellfire. There is a short (and a bit confusing) story from Ed Greenwood where Larlochs lichs attack some outer planar space when he gets them some free time and Elminster and some other guys go there to defend it.

At the end Larloch appears in front of the drained heros and appologiezes for his liches. After that I think its Storm who shows him her spellfire to do him a favor. He watches it closely but is afraid to touch it because it could destroy him.

Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 22 Nov 2009 16:15:39
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1074 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2009 :  16:56:06  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As far as I remember... It is in "Tears so White" And yes he carefully looks at it, but i dont think he ia afraid. Further more, silverfire is "perhaps" the only magic that can harm him.
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jordanz
Senior Scribe

509 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2009 :  17:58:09  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

As far as I remember... It is in "Tears so White" And yes he carefully looks at it, but i dont think he ia afraid. Further more, silverfire is "perhaps" the only magic that can harm him.



I wonder if Spellfire could also accomplish this...
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2009 :  00:31:43  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

Elminster has great power considering that he has the greatest grace of mystra and spells and power only given to him. That said one must think of the fact that Larloch is completely immune to all magic and psyonics. Being about 2000 years old, and having spent most of his time searching and studying magic one must simply rialise the truth... Larloch can not be killed by any spellcaster!!!!! He is cunning, fast, desicive wise and ever leaning the secrets of the weave. Enough said.

Karsus well powerful yes, talented yes, but great... hmm He did cast Avartar with good intentions but it was not a well though through spell. It worked all to well!

Ioulaum... Creator of the Mythallars, power boyond all other Netheril mages, a master of psyonics. He is now an undead elder brain, which is CR 28 and then ad 41 levels of spellcating... That to me summes things up nicely.

The Shrinhee... Old, extremely wise, and deep in the knowledge of the art. And one of only a few existing today who have studyed the Nether Scrolls the longest after transformed into the golden beach tree. Power to pass out of all knowledge for 700 years and then appear at the right place and time.

So to sume op things...
1st. place: Larloch
2nd. place: Shrinshee
3ed. place: Elminster
4th. place: Karsus

I have chosen this order because I feel that these 4 masters of the Art are the best example of a mix of wisdom, inteligence, and sheer power. The winner is Larloch thou.

The Terraseer, Telemont, Halaster, Simbul and so on did not make the list. Why... well I dont think that they are as powerful, wise or inteligent as the before mentioned. They would however be on the list if the list was longer.






Don't know much about Larloch, but I definitely agree with the other three. The Srinshee would be tops on my list, because of the notes Ed put into "The annotated Elminster". It gave some stats on her- 46th lvl?! Plus Chosen status, and High Magic. She ended up with something like a lvl 59 or 60 stats. That's POWER.... And this was even when she was teaching El. No telling what she is now.

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swifty
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
517 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2009 :  12:44:45  Show Profile  Visit swifty's Homepage Send swifty a Private Message  Reply with Quote
has ioulaum ever been mentioned even briefly in any realms novel?and how often has larlochs name cropped up?

go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS.
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Sandro
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
266 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2009 :  01:57:15  Show Profile  Click to see Sandro's MSN Messenger address Send Sandro a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by swifty

has ioulaum ever been mentioned even briefly in any realms novel?and how often has larlochs name cropped up?


Larloch appears in Ed's short story in Realms of the Elves, entitled "Tears So White."

Ioulaum, as far as I know, doesn't appear in any novels or short stories.

"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..."
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jordanz
Senior Scribe

509 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2009 :  04:39:40  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What about the Bane touched Szass Tam?
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
796 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2009 :  05:27:28  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro

quote:
Originally posted by swifty

has ioulaum ever been mentioned even briefly in any realms novel?and how often has larlochs name cropped up?


Larloch appears in Ed's short story in Realms of the Elves, entitled "Tears So White."

Ioulaum, as far as I know, doesn't appear in any novels or short stories.



That story is a bit deceptive because it gives you the feeling that Larloch would be helpless against Silver fire, and the chosen are sure they could take him, yet Ed, on this forum, has said that Larloch was just trying to lull them into knowing he was not there to fight them, and that they really could not do much to him other than inconvenience him.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2010 :  20:13:38  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_

Larloch is not imune to all magic and I got the impression that he is frightend about the choose of mystra because of their spellfire. There is a short (and a bit confusing) story from Ed Greenwood where Larlochs lichs attack some outer planar space when he gets them some free time and Elminster and some other guys go there to defend it.

At the end Larloch appears in front of the drained heros and appologiezes for his liches. After that I think its Storm who shows him her spellfire to do him a favor. He watches it closely but is afraid to touch it because it could destroy him.



I do not think he's afraid. His desire to not meddle with the Chosen's affair has something to do with Mystra, whom he maintains a good relationship with. He even receives special favors from her.




Every beginning has an end.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2010 :  20:21:11  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted for Telamont Tanthul. He's cunning, knows his limit and implements his plan in context. Had Old Netheril survived, he would have just been second to Karsus, but i still prefer him. Next to my list are:

2nd: Elminster
3rd: Karsus
4th: Szass Tam
5th: Gromph Baenre

Since I am partial to Netheril, I would have voted for Ioulaum, too, but I do not know much about him save the few things in the Netheril Trilogy. Did he appear in other books?


Every beginning has an end.
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe

Kazakhstan
588 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2010 :  05:38:44  Show Profile  Visit Sill Alias's Homepage Send Sill Alias a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like Elminster, but I believe if Halaster was not crazy he would be the most dangerous creature in the realms, not considering the fact he IS dangerous enough.

You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias

"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2010 :  06:21:50  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias

I like Elminster, but I believe if Halaster was not crazy he would be the most dangerous creature in the realms, not considering the fact he IS dangerous enough.

A sane Halaster is a frightening prospect indeed. What's scarier though, is what Ed, Eric or Steven can *do* with a SANE Halaster!

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe

Kazakhstan
588 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2010 :  06:20:33  Show Profile  Visit Sill Alias's Homepage Send Sill Alias a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the truth is I like more the Mordenkainen. There is a mystery of his status no one can uncover.

You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias

"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe

Norway
377 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2010 :  07:20:00  Show Profile Send Elfinblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias

I like Elminster, but I believe if Halaster was not crazy he would be the most dangerous creature in the realms, not considering the fact he IS dangerous enough.

A sane Halaster is a frightening prospect indeed. What's scarier though, is what Ed, Eric or Steven can *do* with a SANE Halaster!



hehe indeed sir. But one would have to take Vhostym into account as well. He evidently is thousands of years old and the man pulled down a tear!
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2010 :  04:45:27  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Necro

I voted for Telamont because out of all the people on the list he probably has the most actual power. (plus he's an ancient netherese shade...)



I also voted for Telamont. I consider his age (far older than El). With his thousands of years of existence, he must have discovered innumerable intricacies of shadow magic and thereby augmented his strength. Had Karsus been alive, well, I would have voted for him. Besides, Telamont used to be "under" Karsus (a student, at that).

Anyway, let us also consider Telamont's exploits in the Return of the Archwizards... Telamont, albeit with the aid of his sons, managed to save his city despite the joined forces of the 5 Chosen.



Every beginning has an end.
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1074 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2010 :  17:11:15  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

Elminster has great power considering that he has the greatest grace of mystra and spells and power only given to him. That said one must think of the fact that Larloch is completely immune to all magic and psyonics. Being about 2000 years old, and having spent most of his time searching and studying magic one must simply rialise the truth... Larloch can not be killed by any spellcaster!!!!! He is cunning, fast, desicive wise and ever leaning the secrets of the weave. Enough said.

Karsus well powerful yes, talented yes, but great... hmm He did cast Avartar with good intentions but it was not a well though through spell. It worked all to well!

Ioulaum... Creator of the Mythallars, power boyond all other Netheril mages, a master of psyonics. He is now an undead elder brain, which is CR 28 and then ad 41 levels of spellcating... That to me summes things up nicely.

The Shrinhee... Old, extremely wise, and deep in the knowledge of the art. And one of only a few existing today who have studyed the Nether Scrolls the longest after transformed into the golden beach tree. Power to pass out of all knowledge for 700 years and then appear at the right place and time.

So to sume op things...
1st. place: Larloch
2nd. place: Shrinshee
3ed. place: Elminster
4th. place: Karsus

I have chosen this order because I feel that these 4 masters of the Art are the best example of a mix of wisdom, inteligence, and sheer power. The winner is Larloch thou.

The Terraseer, Telemont, Halaster, Simbul and so on did not make the list. Why... well I dont think that they are as powerful, wise or inteligent as the before mentioned. They would however be on the list if the list was longer.






Don't know much about Larloch, but I definitely agree with the other three. The Srinshee would be tops on my list, because of the notes Ed put into "The annotated Elminster". It gave some stats on her- 46th lvl?! Plus Chosen status, and High Magic. She ended up with something like a lvl 59 or 60 stats. That's POWER.... And this was even when she was teaching El. No telling what she is now.



The annotated Elminster" where and how do I get to reading that?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2010 :  17:15:28  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

The annotated Elminster" where and how do I get to reading that?

Most bookstores might still carry a few copies. You can try online, I suppose.

Alternatively, both nobleknight.com and eBay tend to have second-hand copies at reasonable prices popping up every so often. I'd keep an eye out on both those sites also.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1074 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2010 :  17:21:13  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
nice info sage, as allways. Is it a novel or book of facts. I have never heard of it before!
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2010 :  17:35:20  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

nice info sage, as allways. Is it a novel or book of facts. I have never heard of it before!



It's a collection of the first 3 books of Elminster series.

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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1074 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2010 :  19:15:15  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What... I've read the Elmister series, and yes she is dipicted as extremely powerful, but how does this become evident to a point where one would say that she was lvl 46+?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2010 :  01:38:22  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

nice info sage, as allways. Is it a novel or book of facts. I have never heard of it before!



It's a collection of the first 3 books of Elminster series.

It's actually more than just that. It's also a collection of Ed-lore which focus specifically on the characters, settings, and background lore of the three collected books. Plus, Ed's valuable annotations as well.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2010 :  11:07:38  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Don't know much about Larloch, but I definitely agree with the other three. The Srinshee would be tops on my list, because of the notes Ed put into "The annotated Elminster". It gave some stats on her- 46th lvl?! Plus Chosen status, and High Magic. She ended up with something like a lvl 59 or 60 stats. That's POWER.... And this was even when she was teaching El. No telling what she is now.



46th level in AD&D or 3rd edition? I'm thinking about statting her for 3 ed. and I was curious...

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