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Tyr
Learned Scribe

225 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2009 :  23:50:24  Show Profile  Visit Tyr's Homepage Send Tyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aye, due to the no 10th level+ law, technically nobody can be as powerful as a fullblown netheril arcanist, especially with the 45 level progression.
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Draezen
Seeker

25 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2009 :  13:13:24  Show Profile  Visit Draezen's Homepage  Send Draezen an ICQ Message Send Draezen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

We know next to nothing about Ioulaum. Even the material that provides us with the 'best information' is the Netheril boxed set -- with all its drawbacks and failings. I'm sure there is much, much more to learn about Ioulaum.



Well, at least we know he was quite determined... in wiping out orcs

quote:

For all we know, he was the Mystryl equivalent of a Chosen of Mystra.

And to make things more interesting, he might not have known that he was. Maybe just like Karsus didn't know...



Hmm, that makes me think of stating him out with a chosen template

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2009 :  15:27:17  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tyr

Aye, due to the no 10th level+ law, technically nobody can be as powerful as a fullblown netheril arcanist, especially with the 45 level progression.



Well, that depends on how one defines "powerful." I don't think it's solely about spell levels.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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bolf66
Seeker

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2009 :  19:24:17  Show Profile  Visit bolf66's Homepage Send bolf66 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
in my opinion if we look at sheer power bow to the simbul I personaly think that is he lived pre karsus folly and had there lack of limitation on spells she wouldn't need the avatar spell she'd be a goddess on her own right now others have mentioned it but best spellcaster as far as skill goes I'd pre demigod azuth who one on one spell battled the demi god of magic and not only wipped him but all but made him a slave that's skill

perception is the real truth
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
797 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2009 :  02:18:48  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bolf66

in my opinion if we look at sheer power bow to the simbul I personaly think that is he lived pre karsus folly and had there lack of limitation on spells she wouldn't need the avatar spell she'd be a goddess on her own right now others have mentioned it but best spellcaster as far as skill goes I'd pre demigod azuth who one on one spell battled the demi god of magic and not only wipped him but all but made him a slave that's skill



In canon, Elminster basically tells Simbul in spellfire that if she opposed him, she would have been destroyed, and The Simbul herself declared to Elminster's face that she was certain he could beat her if they fought.

Her exact words were "I have seen what your art has wrought Elminster. If ever I should have to stand against it, I expect to fall."

Elminster is more powerful than the Simbul.
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sfdragon
Master of Realmslore

1984 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2009 :  02:52:59  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Id wonder if there would be a good idea to make a thread on who was the most active arcanist in the realms

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2009 :  03:57:12  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

Id wonder if there would be a good idea to make a thread on who was the most active arcanist in the realms



I think that would be even harder to measure than who the most powerful is...

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Draezen
Seeker

25 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2009 :  12:32:53  Show Profile  Visit Draezen's Homepage  Send Draezen an ICQ Message Send Draezen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
In canon, Elminster basically tells Simbul in spellfire that if she opposed him, she would have been destroyed, and The Simbul herself declared to Elminster's face that she was certain he could beat her if they fought.

Her exact words were "I have seen what your art has wrought Elminster. If ever I should have to stand against it, I expect to fall."

Elminster is more powerful than the Simbul.



Well, yes, though the Simbul from El in Hell, the one who slay unique devils and pit fiends alike with titanic sequences of spells, would probably beat Elminster. Let's just forget the fact that she was empowered by Mystra at that time.

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2009 :  15:57:50  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

Id wonder if there would be a good idea to make a thread on who was the most active arcanist in the realms



I think that would be even harder to measure than who the most powerful is...



Especially because we don't who about every character in Realms to begin with. The "most active arcanist" could be a character who has never seen print for any number of reasons (maybe it's a PC?).

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
797 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2009 :  19:43:00  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Draezen

quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
In canon, Elminster basically tells Simbul in spellfire that if she opposed him, she would have been destroyed, and The Simbul herself declared to Elminster's face that she was certain he could beat her if they fought.

Her exact words were "I have seen what your art has wrought Elminster. If ever I should have to stand against it, I expect to fall."

Elminster is more powerful than the Simbul.



Well, yes, though the Simbul from El in Hell, the one who slay unique devils and pit fiends alike with titanic sequences of spells, would probably beat Elminster. Let's just forget the fact that she was empowered by Mystra at that time.


El would have done that himself had he, you know, not used every single fiber of power he had to close the rift.

Its canon. Elminster is stronger than Mystra.
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Vhostym The Sojourner
Acolyte

2 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2009 :  01:06:27  Show Profile  Visit Vhostym The Sojourner's Homepage Send Vhostym The Sojourner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dude... What about Larloch and Vhostym? Larloch OWNS Szass Tam... Literally. And the Shrinshee... A level 30 wizard with alot of levels in high elven mage as well as being a chosen. And perhaps Hesperdan... though there is little info on JUST how powerful he was. And why not Rivalen?... But he is a demigod now soooo... The Lich drow Dyrr seemed pretty damn powerful and so did Gromph... Though i doubt either would top say... the Simbul. But my vote goes with Elminster.

"Dwarven manhood? Whats that? The smallest thing in all Faerun" -Qara

Edited by - Vhostym The Sojourner on 16 May 2009 01:09:44
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Vhostym The Sojourner
Acolyte

2 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2009 :  01:11:50  Show Profile  Visit Vhostym The Sojourner's Homepage Send Vhostym The Sojourner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by Draezen

quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
In canon, Elminster basically tells Simbul in spellfire that if she opposed him, she would have been destroyed, and The Simbul herself declared to Elminster's face that she was certain he could beat her if they fought.

Her exact words were "I have seen what your art has wrought Elminster. If ever I should have to stand against it, I expect to fall."

Elminster is more powerful than the Simbul.



Well, yes, though the Simbul from El in Hell, the one who slay unique devils and pit fiends alike with titanic sequences of spells, would probably beat Elminster. Let's just forget the fact that she was empowered by Mystra at that time.


El would have done that himself had he, you know, not used every single fiber of power he had to close the rift.

Its canon. Elminster is stronger than Mystra.


Elminster is sooo NOT stronger than Mystra. Mystra is a GODDESS! And a greater power at that. And she is goddess of magic. If she wanted she could denie the weave and WHIP any mage like there was no tommorow. Shame that Cyric killed her... I think by all standards that he did it a bit easily considering all that hype during the shadow of the avatar crysis that Mytra was "the strongest god"

"Dwarven manhood? Whats that? The smallest thing in all Faerun" -Qara
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bolf66
Seeker

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2009 :  16:08:30  Show Profile  Visit bolf66's Homepage Send bolf66 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
in EL IN HELL wasn't there a flash back where EL and Simbul fought and she had him on the run

perception is the real truth
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bolf66
Seeker

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2009 :  16:56:57  Show Profile  Visit bolf66's Homepage Send bolf66 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted halaster but I like to change it because I remember a book that opened in undermountain where a anchient beholder was making a copy of shandril and up on the cealing HAL, EL and I think blackstaff where talking and EL punked Halaster

perception is the real truth
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2009 :  17:20:37  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bolf66

I voted halaster but I like to change it because I remember a book that opened in undermountain where a anchient beholder was making a copy of shandril and up on the cealing HAL, EL and I think blackstaff where talking and EL punked Halaster





Having read most of the Realms novels, I gotta say, I don't recall this one... Unless it was Escape From Undermountain, a book I've done my best to forget, because I found its depiction of how Halaster ran Undermountain to be against canon and utterly silly.

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Draezen
Seeker

25 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2009 :  18:13:56  Show Profile  Visit Draezen's Homepage  Send Draezen an ICQ Message Send Draezen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Its canon. Elminster is stronger than Mystra.



You mean Ariel Manx, don't you

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bolf66
Seeker

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2009 :  20:47:19  Show Profile  Visit bolf66's Homepage Send bolf66 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
no it was a seperate novel if anything for ill check on it and post when I have proper resorces


perception is the real truth
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swifty
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
517 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2009 :  09:42:38  Show Profile  Visit swifty's Homepage Send swifty a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by bolf66

in my opinion if we look at sheer power bow to the simbul I personaly think that is he lived pre karsus folly and had there lack of limitation on spells she wouldn't need the avatar spell she'd be a goddess on her own right now others have mentioned it but best spellcaster as far as skill goes I'd pre demigod azuth who one on one spell battled the demi god of magic and not only wipped him but all but made him a slave that's skill



In canon, Elminster basically tells Simbul in spellfire that if she opposed him, she would have been destroyed, and The Simbul herself declared to Elminster's face that she was certain he could beat her if they fought.

Her exact words were "I have seen what your art has wrought Elminster. If ever I should have to stand against it, I expect to fall."

Elminster is more powerful than the Simbul.

in heroes lorebook it describes simbuls years of fighting the red wizards as elevating her skills to that above even elminster.

go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS.
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
797 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2009 :  21:15:52  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by swifty

quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by bolf66

in my opinion if we look at sheer power bow to the simbul I personaly think that is he lived pre karsus folly and had there lack of limitation on spells she wouldn't need the avatar spell she'd be a goddess on her own right now others have mentioned it but best spellcaster as far as skill goes I'd pre demigod azuth who one on one spell battled the demi god of magic and not only wipped him but all but made him a slave that's skill



In canon, Elminster basically tells Simbul in spellfire that if she opposed him, she would have been destroyed, and The Simbul herself declared to Elminster's face that she was certain he could beat her if they fought.

Her exact words were "I have seen what your art has wrought Elminster. If ever I should have to stand against it, I expect to fall."

Elminster is more powerful than the Simbul.

in heroes lorebook it describes simbuls years of fighting the red wizards as elevating her skills to that above even elminster.


It did not say that at all. It implied her power was nearing Elminsters, not greater than.

And in the much more recent epic level handbook, as well as the words of Greenwood who invented those characters, Elminster is still the kingpin after Larloch.

Elminster in the epic level handbook is Male Human (Chosen of Mystra) Fighter 1/Rogue
2/Cleric 3/Wizard 24/Archmage 5: CR 39
Simbul is listed as Female Human (Chosen of Mystra) Sorcerer 20/
Archmage 2/Wizard 10: CR 36
and it implies he is generally the best of the best.

Her multitude of years battling red wizards does not even begin to cover the countless scores of battles Elminster was involved in vs the Zhentarim, Red wizards, and thousands of other mages before she was even born. He helped rear most of the seven sisters.

Edited by - Firestorm on 20 May 2009 21:16:39
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Eye of Horus-Re
Seeker

USA
36 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2009 :  18:25:21  Show Profile  Visit Eye of Horus-Re's Homepage Send Eye of Horus-Re a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elminster, hands down. He would beat them all with cantrips and 1st level spells! He is that clever (his greatest strength).

Long live 1384 and that which came before....!!!
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Iolaum 13
Acolyte

Greece
3 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2009 :  13:49:34  Show Profile  Visit Iolaum 13's Homepage Send Iolaum 13 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted Karsus but i think Iolaum had a place in the poll too
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swifty
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
517 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2009 :  19:42:10  Show Profile  Visit swifty's Homepage Send swifty a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by swifty

quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by bolf66

in my opinion if we look at sheer power bow to the simbul I personaly think that is he lived pre karsus folly and had there lack of limitation on spells she wouldn't need the avatar spell she'd be a goddess on her own right now others have mentioned it but best spellcaster as far as skill goes I'd pre demigod azuth who one on one spell battled the demi god of magic and not only wipped him but all but made him a slave that's skill

erm.why does it say in my 1996 edition of heroes lorebook "the simbul is a wild and unpredictable foe in spell battle.decades of duelling the arrogant red wizards of thay have elevated her skill in this area to heights unreached even by elminster."there words not mine.she is also classed as 30th level mage whilst elminster is 29th level.i dont neccessarily agree with it but this was canon.

In canon, Elminster basically tells Simbul in spellfire that if she opposed him, she would have been destroyed, and The Simbul herself declared to Elminster's face that she was certain he could beat her if they fought.

Her exact words were "I have seen what your art has wrought Elminster. If ever I should have to stand against it, I expect to fall."

Elminster is more powerful than the Simbul.

in heroes lorebook it describes simbuls years of fighting the red wizards as elevating her skills to that above even elminster.


It did not say that at all. It implied her power was nearing Elminsters, not greater than.

And in the much more recent epic level handbook, as well as the words of Greenwood who invented those characters, Elminster is still the kingpin after Larloch.

Elminster in the epic level handbook is Male Human (Chosen of Mystra) Fighter 1/Rogue
2/Cleric 3/Wizard 24/Archmage 5: CR 39
Simbul is listed as Female Human (Chosen of Mystra) Sorcerer 20/
Archmage 2/Wizard 10: CR 36
and it implies he is generally the best of the best.

Her multitude of years battling red wizards does not even begin to cover the countless scores of battles Elminster was involved in vs the Zhentarim, Red wizards, and thousands of other mages before she was even born. He helped rear most of the seven sisters.


go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS.
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Lord Necro
Seeker

18 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2009 :  13:11:58  Show Profile  Visit Lord Necro's Homepage Send Lord Necro a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted for Telamont because out of all the people on the list he probably has the most actual power. (plus he's an ancient netherese shade...)

"Time? time has no meaning to the dead..." ~ Necro Lazerus, Male Moon Elven Shade/Lich.
"Life is but a cloak we wear fleetingly.." ~ Etrius Lazerus, Male Moon Elven Shade.
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LordManshoon
Acolyte

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2009 :  22:05:51  Show Profile Send LordManshoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted for myself, because while most other people might not want to accept the truth, let's face it. I'm simply the greatest.

Mastering myriad magics since Ed was young
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2893 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2009 :  14:36:17  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Right!



"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
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