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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2009 :  01:05:54  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonlight

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

So I'm not spoiling things, I'd recommend you read "The Haunted Lands" trilogy by Richard Lee Byers.




You are scaring me here, but than again no one can defeat Szazz Tam. He made a couple of mistakes in the past, but I don't see him repeating them again. I'll have to investigate this more though.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that. Again, I'd recommend you read this trilogy. It provides some enlightening thoughts on Szass Tam's ambition, and his overall power.

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Moonlight
Seeker

25 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2009 :  04:19:08  Show Profile  Visit Moonlight's Homepage Send Moonlight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Moonlight

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

So I'm not spoiling things, I'd recommend you read "The Haunted Lands" trilogy by Richard Lee Byers.




You are scaring me here, but than again no one can defeat Szazz Tam. He made a couple of mistakes in the past, but I don't see him repeating them again. I'll have to investigate this more though.



Considering that Szass is afraid of Larloch, I'm thinking that Szass doesn't think that no one can defeat him.



Larloch doesn't count, he is in an entirely different level that Szass Tam. I doubt that anyone in the Realms would be able to defeat him, especially if Larloch got it in a personal level. Well, maybe Simbul would be entertained from it, but that's all.

Sehanine is dreaming...
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Eye of Horus-Re
Seeker

USA
36 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2009 :  21:09:02  Show Profile  Visit Eye of Horus-Re's Homepage Send Eye of Horus-Re a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zhents for me! Zhentarim Bainite Clerics kick butt!

Long live 1384 and that which came before....!!!
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2012 :  15:56:25  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hard to believe that House Dlardrageth got so few votes, i mean they are the most deliciously evil.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2012 :  04:43:18  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Shade, of course. But since it's not on the list, my second favorite will do: Red Wizards.

Every beginning has an end.
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe

Malaysia
552 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  13:59:35  Show Profile Send Xar Zarath a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Twisted Rune! Followed closely by arcane-magic heavy organizations...

Everything ends where it begins. Period.



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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1356 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  16:50:00  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The old Zhentarim or Red Wizards were always my favorites. Personally, I think the Realms needs more evil organizations, but not necessarily world spanning or dominated by 20th + casters. I'd like to see some regional ones, such as those who work in the Moonsea, Vast, or Sembia etc. Fighting the classic Realms villains is fun, but fighting against a smaller org that a party could possibly destroy or completely ruin over part of a campaign...much more gratifying.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  20:04:42  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I usually have a favorite based on where I'm going to be running my game...but I've even used the Emerald Enclave as an "evil" organization before.

Over all, the one I've used most however is the Zhentarim.

The Iron Throne would be a close second for me.

I prefer to use Red Wizards in my game as "wild cards" that can sometimes be relied on as a temporary ally...and other times a fierce enemy.

Visit my Blog Page to find things for YOUR Forgotten Realms!
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 15 Jun 2012 :  07:34:18  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Red Wizards as allies? Ha! Where do you find such type?

Every beginning has an end.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 15 Jun 2012 :  12:20:05  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Red Wizards as allies? Ha! Where do you find such type?



Sometimes I get the distinct feeling Dennis, that you argue for arguments sake.

Where do I find such you ask?

Ailoth the Red Wizard...buyer of "distress goods" which I use as a fence for players of magical items in Hillsfar...items taken from dead Zhentarim.

Alzegund "the trader" who is found in many lands, but spies on the military of Cormyr and Zhentil Keep. As a merchant, he can easily come into contact with players who might have some information to sell him...or buy from him (especially concerning the Zhentarim and Zhentilar).

Naglatha of Selgaunt who is an unknown Red Wizard who deals in curios from the South; but also hires freeswords for various jobs.

That's just three in print...not to mention any I create myself.

Yup...that is where I find them.

Visit my Blog Page to find things for YOUR Forgotten Realms!
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2012 :  01:37:34  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Canon aside, I personally don't count merchant Red Wizards. Mercenary is a slap to a class that's supposed to be elitist and powerful.

A non-Thayan would most likely avoid sealing an alliance with a Red Wizard if he knows that someone is indeed a Red Wizard. Alliance with them usually happens under the cloak of deception.


Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 16 Jun 2012 06:03:57
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2012 :  02:18:12  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Canon aside, I personally don't count mercenary Red Wizards. Mercenary is a slap to a class that's supposed to be elitist and powerful.

A non-Thayan would most likely avoid sealing an alliance with a Red Wizard if he knows that someone is indeed a Red Wizard. Alliance with them usually happens under the cloak of deception.





Not one of he three Red Wizards I quoted are mercenary. They are all agents sent by Thay to their areas.

I don't think anyone would avoid an alliance with a Red Wizard simply because they were a Red Wizard...though it could give them pause. If that were the case, there would not have sprung up so many Thayan Enclaves in the cities of the Sea of Fallen Stars.

No, I think Red Wizards are just as viable as an ally as any other sort...just depends on the individual needs of the those becoming allies.

Even the High Blade of Mulmaster was married to the First Princess...who is a Red Wizard. They are not scum of the earth after all...they are one of the most powerful orders in the world.

Visit my Blog Page to find things for YOUR Forgotten Realms!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29796 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2012 :  04:37:58  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Canon aside, I personally don't count mercenary Red Wizards. Mercenary is a slap to a class that's supposed to be elitist and powerful.

A non-Thayan would most likely avoid sealing an alliance with a Red Wizard if he knows that someone is indeed a Red Wizard. Alliance with them usually happens under the cloak of deception.





So you've decided the published information about the Red Wizards is wrong?

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 Jun 2012 04:38:27
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2012 :  04:48:46  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Canon aside, I personally don't count merchant Red Wizards. Mercenary is a slap to a class that's supposed to be elitist and powerful.

A non-Thayan would most likely avoid sealing an alliance with a Red Wizard if he knows that someone is indeed a Red Wizard. Alliance with them usually happens under the cloak of deception.


So you've decided the published information about the Red Wizards is wrong?


Not wrong. I just don't like the merchant part; the rest, I do, specially how they've been represented in novels, most notably by Richard.

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Canon aside, I personally don't count mercenary Red Wizards. Mercenary is a slap to a class that's supposed to be elitist and powerful.

A non-Thayan would most likely avoid sealing an alliance with a Red Wizard if he knows that someone is indeed a Red Wizard. Alliance with them usually happens under the cloak of deception.


Not one of he three Red Wizards I quoted are mercenary. They are all agents sent by Thay to their areas.

I don't think anyone would avoid an alliance with a Red Wizard simply because they were a Red Wizard...though it could give them pause. If that were the case, there would not have sprung up so many Thayan Enclaves in the cities of the Sea of Fallen Stars.

No, I think Red Wizards are just as viable as an ally as any other sort...just depends on the individual needs of the those becoming allies.


You misunderstand. It's unlikely for one to ally with a Red Wizard not because he and his order are scums. It's because Red Wizards are generally thought to be evil and self-serving and always ready to back-stab and betray anyone just to see to their whims. And such notion is not without basis.

Even non-Red Wizard spellcasters in Thay are approached with extreme caution. Aoth Fezim, a Thayan battle mage and leader of the Brotherhood of the Griffon, would have found it difficult to attract clients because of his ancestry if people didn't know what he and his comrades did during Szass Tam's rise to power...

And let's not forget that by their very nature, Red Wizards tend to use non-Thayans as pawns than ally with them.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 16 Jun 2012 06:02:24
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2012 :  05:48:54  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What mercenary Red Wizards are we talking about?

Visit my Blog Page to find things for YOUR Forgotten Realms!
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2012 :  06:03:05  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Oops, sorry, my mistake. I meant MERCHANT.

I don't like it that some of them choose to stay in enclaves and sell their 'wares.' I'd prefer them to have their slaves or non-Red Wizard magic-users do it for them.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 16 Jun 2012 06:06:18
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2012 :  06:38:37  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It only stands to reason that Red Wizards will be merchants...they control the trade in Thay completely. The Tharchions (sp?) may rule at the discretion of the Red Wizards; but all true political power lays within the hands of the Red Wizards.

As they control the nation, it would stand to logic that many of them would enter into trade. Now, having said that, I've never been a fan of the Thayan Enclave...I feel it was an extension of the easy availability of magical items in 3.x D&D for the Forgotten Realms. No, I prefer to have the Red Wizards as spies AND merchants.

I don't like Magic Markets at all...no sir...not in MY realms.

Visit my Blog Page to find things for YOUR Forgotten Realms!
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2012 :  04:13:58  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

They're supposed to act as rulers and yes, spies. They dictate merchants (who could be affluent Thayans; fledgling wizards; or mere slaves) what and how to sell; not them doing the selling. I'm glad I didn't see many of these merchant Red Wizards in the Thay-centric novels I read.

Every beginning has an end.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2012 :  04:23:08  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonlight

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

So I'm not spoiling things, I'd recommend you read "The Haunted Lands" trilogy by Richard Lee Byers.


You are scaring me here, but than again no one can defeat Szazz Tam. He made a couple of mistakes in the past, but I don't see him repeating them again. I'll have to investigate this more though.


He actually repeated some of his mistakes.

Every beginning has an end.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1755 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2012 :  12:43:27  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cult of the Dragon, cause they are based on the most ingenious idea
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2012 :  09:09:36  Show Profile Send Xnella Moonblade-Thann a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For me, it's the Zhentarim, followed by the Knights of the Shield. Just imagine if they ran into each other in Amn or Tethyr, what trouble they could cause just trying to figure out if they can trust the other group! Thoughts like that get my head spinning and the gears inside working harder than normal.

"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell

Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.

Somehow I'm missing my Eberron stuff that the gremlins took when my laptop died over a year ago, but I shall get them buggers yet!
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Doge
Seeker

73 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2012 :  10:07:44  Show Profile Send Doge a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zhents! I just love them.
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe

USA
304 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2012 :  11:42:38  Show Profile Send Tarlyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Plenty of good choices. I almost went Twisted Rune, but I have never managed to incorporate them into a game. So, go Zhents.

Tarlyn Embersun
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2012 :  09:49:33  Show Profile Send Xnella Moonblade-Thann a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn

<snip>So, go Zhents.



Sounds like a cheer. Or a really lame commercial.

"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell

Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.

Somehow I'm missing my Eberron stuff that the gremlins took when my laptop died over a year ago, but I shall get them buggers yet!
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jazirian reborn
Acolyte

Australia
10 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2012 :  12:24:59  Show Profile Send jazirian reborn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase

Nah, the Twisted Rune for me, nothing like a bunch of master-minding undead evil mages trying to run a whole region from behind the scenes.


Yeah , finding a Zhent or a Red Wizard to bash isnt all that hard. Just finding anyone who has heard of the Rune , may be years of gametime.
Unveiling the enemy is half the battle.
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