Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Realmslore
 Sages of Realmslore
 Question about pronunciation
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

eomer
Acolyte

Russia
28 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2005 :  05:50:09  Show Profile  Visit eomer's Homepage Send eomer a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello!
I just wonder how to pronounce drow, zh in Zhentil keep, and th in Netheril?

Yours Faithfully, Konstantin aka Eomer

Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1646 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2005 :  12:54:42  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Drow as in cow.

Zhentil--the H is silent, but you can push it and make it like the difference between a normal "s" sound and the "sh" sound if you so please. I've heard it both ways, but Ed pronounces it as ZEN-tul KEEP.

NETH-ur-ul.

And Alias is pronounced just as it's spelled. Jeff Grubb used to get amazed at how many different ways people would pronounce the name of the Azure Bonded One, when he figured it was a good simple name without confusion. <shrug>

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
Go to Top of Page

warlockco
Master of Realmslore

USA
1695 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2005 :  15:01:58  Show Profile  Visit warlockco's Homepage Send warlockco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
And Alias is pronounced just as it's spelled. Jeff Grubb used to get amazed at how many different ways people would pronounce the name of the Azure Bonded One, when he figured it was a good simple name without confusion. <shrug>



Well you know, some people do like to over complicate things for some reason... <shrugs>

News of the Weird

D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
Go to Top of Page

Gladi
Acolyte

Czech Republic
24 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2005 :  19:56:21  Show Profile  Visit Gladi's Homepage Send Gladi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Zhentil--the H is silent, but you can push it and make it like the difference between a normal "s" sound and the "sh" sound if you so please. I've heard it both ways, but Ed pronounces it as ZEN-tul KEEP.



Be Well.
Zhentil Keep with Zh as in Zhukov sounds really uncool, as due to open "ae" it softens the next syllable as well. If I used such pronounciation my players would die- laughing. But I guess to English person it probably sounds allright.
Go to Top of Page

Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2005 :  02:51:03  Show Profile Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Steven,

Do you know who originally created the Drow and gave them that awful pronounciation, instead of Drow, like bow?

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
Go to Top of Page

Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1646 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2005 :  15:30:45  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane

Steven,

Do you know who originally created the Drow and gave them that awful pronounciation, instead of Drow, like bow?

C-Fb



I was told Gary Gygax gave them that name and pronunciation. <shrug>


For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34467 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2005 :  17:29:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane

Steven,

Do you know who originally created the Drow and gave them that awful pronounciation, instead of Drow, like bow?

C-Fb



I was told Gary Gygax gave them that name and pronunciation. <shrug>





It's better than "dock-alfar"...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Sep 2005 17:30:27
Go to Top of Page

Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2005 :  18:14:58  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gary created the drow of D&D, but the name 'drow'/'trow' comes from folklore and I don't think he ever considered pronouncing it any way but the correct way.

Edited by - Faraer on 15 Sep 2005 18:15:13
Go to Top of Page

Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe

Germany
253 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2005 :  19:19:14  Show Profile  Visit Dart Ambermoon's Homepage Send Dart Ambermoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It is actually quite funny that a lot of people here in Germany pronounce the with a short "o" and a sharp "W" at the end (like "love", but sharper), which makes the name sound a lot more "evil". When I told some of my players that it probably would be pronounced like cow, the looked at me as if I had just stolen their lunch money.

~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~
Go to Top of Page

Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  00:53:05  Show Profile Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I guess there is no accounting for taste! :) {j/k}.

And you're right Wooly, I suppose it is still better than that! I think I'll just call them Black Elves from here on out!

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6065 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  02:33:34  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane

Steven,

Do you know who originally created the Drow and gave them that awful pronounciation, instead of Drow, like bow?

C-Fb



I've always called them drow (like cow). Drow (like bow) sounds icky, IMHO.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  02:37:27  Show Profile Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Like I said... it's all in opinion. My friends, who call them the correct way, like cow, and I (who prefer like bow) have agreed to call them Dark Elves. It makes it much better... and we know how to get under each others' skin.

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
Go to Top of Page

Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore

USA
1291 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  06:47:26  Show Profile  Visit Gray Richardson's Homepage Send Gray Richardson a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Check out this cool glossary it has pronunciations for lots of D&D words:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/games/roleplay/dnd/part5/
Go to Top of Page

Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  14:46:58  Show Profile Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Gray, that's a pretty cool FAQ.

I'm not sure of the pronounciation of Tarrasque, I always thought it was French.. you know, Terr-is-kew... ok, I don't really, but it would be funny if it had a name like that.

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
Go to Top of Page

Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  16:42:35  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, tarrasque is French (it was contributed to Monster Manual II by Franšois Froideval), and the French pronunciation of the word is, approximately, 'tar-RASK'.

Bulette is also French, so 'boo-LAY' would seem to be wrong -- second syllable should be 'lett', plus French doesn't always accent the last syllable the way some Americans think all 'foreign' languages do.

I'm really not convinced one phoneme makes drow sound eviler than another.
Go to Top of Page

Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  20:07:55  Show Profile Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I agree Faraer... I think it's just a matter of opinion.

And I figured the Tarrasque was French, they are about the only ones who use -que with any good effect. Isn't that where the whole -esque ending comes from when we say something is "Faerun-esque" or "Britney Spears-esque" when trying to lump something in the Genre?

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
Go to Top of Page

Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2005 :  20:57:12  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cast into FR stone ...

FRCS - A Grand Tour of the Realms - Races in the Realms ...
Dark Elves:
Dark elves, also called drow (pronounced to rhyme with now or how) or night elves, comprise the most sinister and evil segment of the elven race, as if this subrace seems to balance the tranquility and goodness of their cousins with unrepentant maliciousness and evil. Drow have black skin that resembles nothing so much as polished obsidian, pale eyes (often mistaken for solid white), and hair of stark white. The variations in coloration present in the other elven subraces is missing here. Most of this fell race has been driven underground, and it members are shunned by the other elven subraces. (See also the Underdark Races section.) ...
(FRCS - AD&D 1993 - p.9)

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

GŠ­ a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerűn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34467 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  01:15:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know... I've known the correct pronunciation for years. But I'm used to pronouncing it wrong, so I continue to do so.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  01:57:54  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still usually refer to them as "dark elves"... mostly because of the dark elf references in most of the DRAGONLANCE material. Then again, I went through a phase of calling them night elves, but that was just to impress a certain lady friend... wowing her with my extensive knowledge of FR elven lore .

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34467 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  02:38:09  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

I still usually refer to them as "dark elves"... mostly because of the dark elf references in most of the DRAGONLANCE material. Then again, I went through a phase of calling them night elves, but that was just to impress a certain lady friend... wowing her with my extensive knowledge of FR elven lore .




Does the Lady K know of this?

I think my fave dark elves remain the Riftwar Saga's moredhel... Just a great concept for them and their history.

Krynn's dark elves have never really worked for me, though Dalamar was a cool character. I wonder how he and Elaith would get along? They're similar in that they are evil but still retain their elvish souls...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  03:40:59  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I rather miss Elminster and Dalamar's regular meetings. Too bad Krynn is out of synch with the Realms now. I wonder if El and Mordy keep in touch?
Go to Top of Page

warlockco
Master of Realmslore

USA
1695 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  03:58:33  Show Profile  Visit warlockco's Homepage Send warlockco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's better than "dock-alfar"...



I know I have heard that before, but I just can't place it.

News of the Weird

D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
Go to Top of Page

KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  04:02:03  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dock-Alfar I beleive is the Norse version of Dark Elf. You know, Drizzt hasn't got anything on Kurse . . . (waiting to see how many of my fellow scribes catch that reference).
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  04:52:50  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Does the Lady K know of this?
Probably, but she's too kindly to make an issue of it .

quote:
I think my fave dark elves remain the Riftwar Saga's moredhel... Just a great concept for them and their history.
I'd definitely rank the moredhel as one of the more intriguing conceptions of the "now" standard stereotype for the basic drow.

In recent times though, I'm finding the umbragen from Eberron to be particularly fascinating twist on the old drow and spiders theme.

quote:
Krynn's dark elves have never really worked for me, though Dalamar was a cool character. I wonder how he and Elaith would get along? They're similar in that they are evil but still retain their elvish souls...
The dark elves of Krynn were never meant to be like the standard drow in other settings -- Weis and Hickman's thoughts from the Annonated collections for the CHRONICLES and LEGENDS trilogies makes that fairly clear.

The dark elves of Krynn are meant to reflect the more central tenet of good vs evil which has shaped so much of the fiction and material for the setting.

quote:
I rather miss Elminster and Dalamar's regular meetings. Too bad Krynn is out of synch with the Realms now. I wonder if El and Mordy keep in touch?
I wouldn't say that's completely true. We know from the more recent DL material that there are "holes" in the Dome of Creation which can potentially lead... anywhere.

I choose to believe that one of these holes still retains a connection to Toril.

quote:
Dock-Alfar I beleive is the Norse version of Dark Elf. You know, Drizzt hasn't got anything on Kurse . . . (waiting to see how many of my fellow scribes catch that reference).
They are dark (Dock) Alfs, who commonly reside undergound. It is said that their skin tones appear blacker than pitch. Common references occur in the Scandinavian mythological record.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 26 Sep 2005 04:55:20
Go to Top of Page

KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  05:08:46  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But no comments on Kurse . . .
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  06:41:15  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, I get the reference .

For those who don't, Kurse was a dark elf in the MARVEL UNIVERSE (transformed by the Beyonder as I recall) and mortal enemy of Malekith, the Accursed Lord of the Dark Elves. He made some specific appearances in the comic The Mighty Thor.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2021 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000