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eomer
Acolyte

Russia
28 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2005 :  05:50:09  Show Profile  Visit eomer's Homepage Send eomer a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello!
I just wonder how to pronounce drow, zh in Zhentil keep, and th in Netheril?

Yours Faithfully, Konstantin aka Eomer

Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1705 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2005 :  12:54:42  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Drow as in cow.

Zhentil--the H is silent, but you can push it and make it like the difference between a normal "s" sound and the "sh" sound if you so please. I've heard it both ways, but Ed pronounces it as ZEN-tul KEEP.

NETH-ur-ul.

And Alias is pronounced just as it's spelled. Jeff Grubb used to get amazed at how many different ways people would pronounce the name of the Azure Bonded One, when he figured it was a good simple name without confusion. <shrug>

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore

USA
1695 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2005 :  15:01:58  Show Profile  Visit warlockco's Homepage Send warlockco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
And Alias is pronounced just as it's spelled. Jeff Grubb used to get amazed at how many different ways people would pronounce the name of the Azure Bonded One, when he figured it was a good simple name without confusion. <shrug>



Well you know, some people do like to over complicate things for some reason... <shrugs>

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Gladi
Acolyte

Czech Republic
24 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2005 :  19:56:21  Show Profile  Visit Gladi's Homepage Send Gladi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Zhentil--the H is silent, but you can push it and make it like the difference between a normal "s" sound and the "sh" sound if you so please. I've heard it both ways, but Ed pronounces it as ZEN-tul KEEP.



Be Well.
Zhentil Keep with Zh as in Zhukov sounds really uncool, as due to open "ae" it softens the next syllable as well. If I used such pronounciation my players would die- laughing. But I guess to English person it probably sounds allright.
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2005 :  02:51:03  Show Profile Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Steven,

Do you know who originally created the Drow and gave them that awful pronounciation, instead of Drow, like bow?

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1705 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2005 :  15:30:45  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane

Steven,

Do you know who originally created the Drow and gave them that awful pronounciation, instead of Drow, like bow?

C-Fb



I was told Gary Gygax gave them that name and pronunciation. <shrug>


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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2005 :  17:29:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane

Steven,

Do you know who originally created the Drow and gave them that awful pronounciation, instead of Drow, like bow?

C-Fb



I was told Gary Gygax gave them that name and pronunciation. <shrug>





It's better than "dock-alfar"...

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Sep 2005 17:30:27
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2005 :  18:14:58  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gary created the drow of D&D, but the name 'drow'/'trow' comes from folklore and I don't think he ever considered pronouncing it any way but the correct way.

Edited by - Faraer on 15 Sep 2005 18:15:13
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe

Germany
253 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2005 :  19:19:14  Show Profile  Visit Dart Ambermoon's Homepage Send Dart Ambermoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It is actually quite funny that a lot of people here in Germany pronounce the with a short "o" and a sharp "W" at the end (like "love", but sharper), which makes the name sound a lot more "evil". When I told some of my players that it probably would be pronounced like cow, the looked at me as if I had just stolen their lunch money.

~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  00:53:05  Show Profile Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I guess there is no accounting for taste! :) {j/k}.

And you're right Wooly, I suppose it is still better than that! I think I'll just call them Black Elves from here on out!

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6638 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  02:33:34  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane

Steven,

Do you know who originally created the Drow and gave them that awful pronounciation, instead of Drow, like bow?

C-Fb



I've always called them drow (like cow). Drow (like bow) sounds icky, IMHO.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  02:37:27  Show Profile Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Like I said... it's all in opinion. My friends, who call them the correct way, like cow, and I (who prefer like bow) have agreed to call them Dark Elves. It makes it much better... and we know how to get under each others' skin.

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore

USA
1291 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  06:47:26  Show Profile  Visit Gray Richardson's Homepage Send Gray Richardson a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Check out this cool glossary it has pronunciations for lots of D&D words:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/games/roleplay/dnd/part5/
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  14:46:58  Show Profile Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Gray, that's a pretty cool FAQ.

I'm not sure of the pronounciation of Tarrasque, I always thought it was French.. you know, Terr-is-kew... ok, I don't really, but it would be funny if it had a name like that.

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  16:42:35  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, tarrasque is French (it was contributed to Monster Manual II by François Froideval), and the French pronunciation of the word is, approximately, 'tar-RASK'.

Bulette is also French, so 'boo-LAY' would seem to be wrong -- second syllable should be 'lett', plus French doesn't always accent the last syllable the way some Americans think all 'foreign' languages do.

I'm really not convinced one phoneme makes drow sound eviler than another.
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2005 :  20:07:55  Show Profile Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I agree Faraer... I think it's just a matter of opinion.

And I figured the Tarrasque was French, they are about the only ones who use -que with any good effect. Isn't that where the whole -esque ending comes from when we say something is "Faerun-esque" or "Britney Spears-esque" when trying to lump something in the Genre?

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2005 :  20:57:12  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cast into FR stone ...

FRCS - A Grand Tour of the Realms - Races in the Realms ...
Dark Elves:
Dark elves, also called drow (pronounced to rhyme with now or how) or night elves, comprise the most sinister and evil segment of the elven race, as if this subrace seems to balance the tranquility and goodness of their cousins with unrepentant maliciousness and evil. Drow have black skin that resembles nothing so much as polished obsidian, pale eyes (often mistaken for solid white), and hair of stark white. The variations in coloration present in the other elven subraces is missing here. Most of this fell race has been driven underground, and it members are shunned by the other elven subraces. (See also the Underdark Races section.) ...
(FRCS - AD&D 1993 - p.9)

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  01:15:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know... I've known the correct pronunciation for years. But I'm used to pronouncing it wrong, so I continue to do so.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  01:57:54  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still usually refer to them as "dark elves"... mostly because of the dark elf references in most of the DRAGONLANCE material. Then again, I went through a phase of calling them night elves, but that was just to impress a certain lady friend... wowing her with my extensive knowledge of FR elven lore .

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  02:38:09  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

I still usually refer to them as "dark elves"... mostly because of the dark elf references in most of the DRAGONLANCE material. Then again, I went through a phase of calling them night elves, but that was just to impress a certain lady friend... wowing her with my extensive knowledge of FR elven lore .




Does the Lady K know of this?

I think my fave dark elves remain the Riftwar Saga's moredhel... Just a great concept for them and their history.

Krynn's dark elves have never really worked for me, though Dalamar was a cool character. I wonder how he and Elaith would get along? They're similar in that they are evil but still retain their elvish souls...

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  03:40:59  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I rather miss Elminster and Dalamar's regular meetings. Too bad Krynn is out of synch with the Realms now. I wonder if El and Mordy keep in touch?
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore

USA
1695 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  03:58:33  Show Profile  Visit warlockco's Homepage Send warlockco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's better than "dock-alfar"...



I know I have heard that before, but I just can't place it.

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  04:02:03  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dock-Alfar I beleive is the Norse version of Dark Elf. You know, Drizzt hasn't got anything on Kurse . . . (waiting to see how many of my fellow scribes catch that reference).
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  04:52:50  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Does the Lady K know of this?
Probably, but she's too kindly to make an issue of it .

quote:
I think my fave dark elves remain the Riftwar Saga's moredhel... Just a great concept for them and their history.
I'd definitely rank the moredhel as one of the more intriguing conceptions of the "now" standard stereotype for the basic drow.

In recent times though, I'm finding the umbragen from Eberron to be particularly fascinating twist on the old drow and spiders theme.

quote:
Krynn's dark elves have never really worked for me, though Dalamar was a cool character. I wonder how he and Elaith would get along? They're similar in that they are evil but still retain their elvish souls...
The dark elves of Krynn were never meant to be like the standard drow in other settings -- Weis and Hickman's thoughts from the Annonated collections for the CHRONICLES and LEGENDS trilogies makes that fairly clear.

The dark elves of Krynn are meant to reflect the more central tenet of good vs evil which has shaped so much of the fiction and material for the setting.

quote:
I rather miss Elminster and Dalamar's regular meetings. Too bad Krynn is out of synch with the Realms now. I wonder if El and Mordy keep in touch?
I wouldn't say that's completely true. We know from the more recent DL material that there are "holes" in the Dome of Creation which can potentially lead... anywhere.

I choose to believe that one of these holes still retains a connection to Toril.

quote:
Dock-Alfar I beleive is the Norse version of Dark Elf. You know, Drizzt hasn't got anything on Kurse . . . (waiting to see how many of my fellow scribes catch that reference).
They are dark (Dock) Alfs, who commonly reside undergound. It is said that their skin tones appear blacker than pitch. Common references occur in the Scandinavian mythological record.

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Edited by - The Sage on 26 Sep 2005 04:55:20
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  05:08:46  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But no comments on Kurse . . .
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  06:41:15  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, I get the reference .

For those who don't, Kurse was a dark elf in the MARVEL UNIVERSE (transformed by the Beyonder as I recall) and mortal enemy of Malekith, the Accursed Lord of the Dark Elves. He made some specific appearances in the comic The Mighty Thor.

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warlockco
Master of Realmslore

USA
1695 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  07:53:48  Show Profile  Visit warlockco's Homepage Send warlockco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

Dock-Alfar I beleive is the Norse version of Dark Elf. You know, Drizzt hasn't got anything on Kurse . . . (waiting to see how many of my fellow scribes catch that reference).



Thanks, I knew I had read about them somewhere, I read alot of Mythology while in High School. But that was over 13 years ago.

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2005 :  11:15:16  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry Sage, couldn't resist. My comic book addiction strikes again!
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2005 :  19:01:12  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane

Steven,

Do you know who originally created the Drow and gave them that awful pronounciation, instead of Drow, like bow?

C-Fb


Is that "bow" as in "bow out" or "bow" as in "thing that launches arrows"? ;)

I'm reading R. A. Salvatore's Drizzt novels and have a lot of questions about pronunciation. For instance:

Is "Malice" pronounced exactly as the word which signifies evil intent, or is it something like "Muh-leess" or like "Melissa"?

Is "Briza" pronounced "Breeze-uh" or "Bry-zuh" or Bryz-uh"?

Is the "-ein" at the end of words pronounced as in German "stein" or are the vowels each pronounced (and if so, how?), or is it "-een" or something else altogether?

I don't have the Menzoberranzan boxed set or Drizzt's Guide to the Underdark. Are there pronunciation guides in those? Is there a web site or a scroll here which gives the pronunciation of common Drow words and names, and if so, will someone please post a link to the same?

In my own game world I have tried to solve pronunciation problems with a 72 glyph "alphabet" in which each glyph (that's the technical term for "letter") has one and only one pronunciation with a glyph for the schwa handling awkward endings such as the vowel at the end of Briza's name. The neat thing about the "alphabet" is that writings in it amount to a guide to pronunciation, not to native spellings, so anything transcribed from a spoken language and then read aloud from it sounds correct, even if the person who wrote it has no knowledge of the writing system used by those whose words he is transcribing. (There are even three "click" glyphs, for sounds made off the inside cheek, off the top teeth, or off the center of the top palate. The users of the alphabet regard those three as good and sufficient, and are likely to just massacre anyone whose language has a fourth click which can't be transcribed, regarding that as easier than adding a new glyph to the system. Did I mention that these folk aren't "nice?)

I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


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Xysma
Master of Realmslore

USA
1089 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2005 :  05:55:09  Show Profile  Visit Xysma's Homepage Send Xysma a Private Message  Reply with Quote
According to Erik Mona on the Paizo website, the Dragon Compendium will contain a pronunciation guide. For anyone interested, you can download the table of contents http://paizo.com/dragon/messageboards/compendium/tableOfContents

War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
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