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scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1615 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2006 :  15:26:22  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by scererar

Additionally, when Elminster started, was there dale reckoning in place at that time?



He was born sometime around year 200 DR, or maybe a decade or two later. I don't know the exact date of the top of my head.



Right, that is my guess also (year of the flaming forest he was 10 I believe by my estimates). My question was, does anyone know when dale reckoning began to be utilized. I remember something about dating (timeline dating) prior to DR being utilized.

"Yap,yap, little dog!" - Riven - page 326 Shadowbred, by Paul Kemp

_________________________

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
- J. R. R. Tolkien
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2006 :  15:32:43  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by scererar

Additionally, when Elminster started, was there dale reckoning in place at that time?



He was born sometime around year 200 DR, or maybe a decade or two later. I don't know the exact date of the top of my head.

El was born in 212 DR (from Ed's "Athalantar" DRAGON article in #228).

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Edited by - The Sage on 16 Mar 2006 15:36:20
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scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1615 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2006 :  15:35:11  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by scererar

Additionally, when Elminster started, was there dale reckoning in place at that time?



He was born sometime around year 200 DR, or maybe a decade or two later. I don't know the exact date of the top of my head.



I concur, he was born in 212 year of awakening magic. My question was when was DR set in place, and what was the dating system used prior to that.

"Yap,yap, little dog!" - Riven - page 326 Shadowbred, by Paul Kemp

_________________________

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
- J. R. R. Tolkien
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2006 :  15:41:00  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by scererar

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by scererar

Additionally, when Elminster started, was there dale reckoning in place at that time?



He was born sometime around year 200 DR, or maybe a decade or two later. I don't know the exact date of the top of my head.



I concur, he was born in 212 year of awakening magic. My question was when was DR set in place, and what was the dating system used prior to that.

Dalereckoning was put in place 1,374 years ago -- to date, the period of the rising of the Standing Stone.

There were myriad dating systems used prior to humans being allowed, by the Elven Court, to settle in the Dalelands region (which is what the Dalereckoning and Standing Stone represent). Cormyr had (and still uses) a dating system of its own (Cormyr Reckoning... which marks the foundation of House Obarskyr).

The North, specifically Waterdeep, has a younger system -- North Reckoning -- marking the time of Ahghairon become the first Lord of Waterdeep. Waterdeep Years, another method of marking time in the region, records the time the region that would become the City of Splendors was first used as a trading post.

The Mulhorandi system is another old dating tradition -- marking the foundation of Skuld.

All three FRCS cover the details about the dating systems of the Realms. Additionally, Ed has also talked a little about dating methods in the Realms in his replies here at Candlekeep.

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Edited by - The Sage on 16 Mar 2006 15:54:29
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe

USA
108 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2006 :  15:54:49  Show Profile  Visit dannyfu's Homepage Send dannyfu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thank you for your suggestions. i have been meaning to check out at least the first couple of elminster novels, but thanks for the other suggestions, i will look into them
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2006 :  16:49:58  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Additionally, Ed has also talked a little about dating methods in the Realms in his replies here at Candlekeep.




You mean, like which flowers are popular, and who gets to pay the resturant-bill?

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2006 :  00:40:24  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Additionally, Ed has also talked a little about dating methods in the Realms in his replies here at Candlekeep.




You mean, like which flowers are popular, and who gets to pay the resturant-bill?

Hehe... I knew someone would snap that up .

I'm still considering whether or not to ask Ed what the "best" pick-up lines are that are used by both males and females in local taverns and the like across Waterdeep... .

THO... what do you think?

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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1176 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2006 :  19:56:07  Show Profile  Visit Kaladorm's Homepage Send Kaladorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Would just like to say a big thanks to anyone who recommended Azure Bonds to me. It was such a good book, and I'm checking the post every morning for when book 2 and 3 of the trilogy arrive from ebay ;)
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5579 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2006 :  20:10:31  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage  Click to see Alaundo's MSN Messenger address Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

Would just like to say a big thanks to anyone who recommended Azure Bonds to me. It was such a good book, and I'm checking the post every morning for when book 2 and 3 of the trilogy arrive from ebay ;)



Well met

Aye, a splendid novel indeed, Kaladorm The Wyvern's Spur takes on a different angle and a break from Alias before continuing with Song of the Saurials.

I also highly recommend you continue past the trilogy with Masquerades, Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck.

Alaundo
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1176 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2006 :  20:40:09  Show Profile  Visit Kaladorm's Homepage Send Kaladorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo

quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

Would just like to say a big thanks to anyone who recommended Azure Bonds to me. It was such a good book, and I'm checking the post every morning for when book 2 and 3 of the trilogy arrive from ebay ;)



Well met

Aye, a splendid novel indeed, Kaladorm The Wyvern's Spur takes on a different angle and a break from Alias before continuing with Song of the Saurials.

I also highly recommend you continue past the trilogy with Masquerades, Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck.



So many more books . And I'm still trying to find time to finish the Return of the Archwizards and The Moonshaes. The Last Mythal part 3 should be on it's way soon, and I 'still' need to get hold of a copy of the war of the spider queen series.

Plenty of reading to be getting on with :D
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2006 :  21:15:02  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo

quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

Would just like to say a big thanks to anyone who recommended Azure Bonds to me. It was such a good book, and I'm checking the post every morning for when book 2 and 3 of the trilogy arrive from ebay ;)



Well met

Aye, a splendid novel indeed, Kaladorm The Wyvern's Spur takes on a different angle and a break from Alias before continuing with Song of the Saurials.

I also highly recommend you continue past the trilogy with Masquerades, Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck.



And I'm sure I've already recommended these books in the past, but I will echo Big Al anyway. Novak and Grubb are some of the best Realms writers we've seen.

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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1176 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2006 :  22:24:49  Show Profile  Visit Kaladorm's Homepage Send Kaladorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo

quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

Would just like to say a big thanks to anyone who recommended Azure Bonds to me. It was such a good book, and I'm checking the post every morning for when book 2 and 3 of the trilogy arrive from ebay ;)



Well met

Aye, a splendid novel indeed, Kaladorm The Wyvern's Spur takes on a different angle and a break from Alias before continuing with Song of the Saurials.

I also highly recommend you continue past the trilogy with Masquerades, Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck.



And I'm sure I've already recommended these books in the past, but I will echo Big Al anyway. Novak and Grubb are some of the best Realms writers we've seen.



Just had a look at the synopsis of the books. Finders bane takes part in Sigil? Very interesting :) Always thought that place would be fun to visit.

Are those books in, I suppose chronological order? Is there a word meaning 'the order they were written in'?
Bah that's two questions :)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2006 :  22:47:20  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

Just had a look at the synopsis of the books. Finders bane takes part in Sigil? Very interesting :) Always thought that place would be fun to visit.

Are those books in, I suppose chronological order? Is there a word meaning 'the order they were written in'?
Bah that's two questions :)



The order Big Al listed is chronological. Masquerades is a sequel to the Finder's Stone trilogy, focusing on Alias and Dragonbait. Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck are books 1 and 3 of the Lost Gods trilogy (Book 2, Fistandantilus Returns, is a forgettable Dragginglance novel that does little for the trilogy beyond introducing a single character). Those two books are a new story, but there is a familiar face in there (I'll not say who, because it's a bit of a spoiler). Actually, if you read the old Spelljammer or Forgotten Realms comic books, there will be two familiar faces -- but knowledge of those comics isn't necessary to enjoy the trilogy. Tymora's Luck also has cameo appearances of a lot of familiar faces, as well as an in-passing look at the current lives of some of the characters from the Wyvern's Spur.

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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1176 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2006 :  23:01:26  Show Profile  Visit Kaladorm's Homepage Send Kaladorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

Just had a look at the synopsis of the books. Finders bane takes part in Sigil? Very interesting :) Always thought that place would be fun to visit.

Are those books in, I suppose chronological order? Is there a word meaning 'the order they were written in'?
Bah that's two questions :)



The order Big Al listed is chronological. Masquerades is a sequel to the Finder's Stone trilogy, focusing on Alias and Dragonbait. Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck are books 1 and 3 of the Lost Gods trilogy (Book 2, Fistandantilus Returns, is a forgettable Dragginglance novel that does little for the trilogy beyond introducing a single character). Those two books are a new story, but there is a familiar face in there (I'll not say who, because it's a bit of a spoiler). Actually, if you read the old Spelljammer or Forgotten Realms comic books, there will be two familiar faces -- but knowledge of those comics isn't necessary to enjoy the trilogy. Tymora's Luck also has cameo appearances of a lot of familiar faces, as well as an in-passing look at the current lives of some of the characters from the Wyvern's Spur.



I'm very impressed Wooly Thanks
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Jhoebryn
Seeker

43 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2006 :  14:14:12  Show Profile  Visit Jhoebryn's Homepage Send Jhoebryn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It doesn't look like we ever came to a consensus on this. I do agree it is important as there are now over 200 novels available. It can get overwhelming. I know the reading guide on the Dragonlance forums was incredibly helpful to me, so I think this thread is a valuable exercise for new Realms readers.

In putting together this "guide", I might look at this another way: which novels portray characters and events which are important for later novels? If you look over the Dragonlance Core Reading list, it is set up around "core" novels depicting events that affect the rest of the novels of that period. Can we break up the Realms in that way?
Are there specific ages or time periods in the Realms? Can these be defined by realms shattering events?

If we list out the Realms shattering events (without spoilers), can we group the novels down into periods around those events? In those groups, any novel important to the event itself would need to be deemed core. After that, any important or famous characters important to that period would be next (how many novels reference characters from other trilogies - Elminster being a popular one)?

Does this make any sense?

((Note: I started with the Icewind Dale trilogy, the Finders Stone trilogy, and the Avatar trilogy (way back in the late 80's ) and I would recommend those to new readers...))
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Faraer
Great Reader

3295 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2006 :  14:26:45  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Realms-shattering events and iconic characters are marketing. The other novels aren't based around them -- those that have opportunity do their best to ignore these things. They are not particularly important in the Realms per se, and would be bad ways to conceptually organize Realms fiction.
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Jhoebryn
Seeker

43 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2006 :  14:58:51  Show Profile  Visit Jhoebryn's Homepage Send Jhoebryn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer

Realms-shattering events and iconic characters are marketing.


This is an interesting way of looking at the Realms. To me, what makes the Forgotten Realms enjoyable is the 'iconic' characters, the characters I have come to know in all of the novels. When I read a book by author A that references actions and events about character C, I immediately feel at home.

As for the RSE's, I know how Cyric and Kelemvor became the characters they are today because I read the Avatar trilogy (for example). When I see their names in later books, I know who they are and why. To me, that is the whole point of 'shared world' novels - they all interrelate and tie together, putting the reader in a familiar place. I don't try to ignore these things, they only add to my understanding of the world.

As for how to organize the reading order for the books, it may or may not be the right way to do it, but it is one approach (one that works very well for Dragonlance), so it is worth exploring...

Edited by - Jhoebryn on 25 Apr 2006 14:59:37
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2006 :  17:25:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As I said elsewhere on these forums...

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

The Dragonlance setting is different because it's more inclined towards singular, sweeping events, happening one at a time and in sequence. The Cataclysm. The Dwarfgate War. The War of the Lance. The Second Cataclysm. Etc. One big event, and everything spins off of that until the next big event.

The Realms, on the other hand, is a setting where there are always a thousand plots in motion. One corner of the Realms may have some turmoil going on, but in another corner, the most interesting tale is about a man seeking vengeance for his wife's murder.... Months later, the Realms shake with the fury of another event, but while that one is happening, a group in this other area is simply trying to find a way to end a companion's curse...

In other words, there are always things happening in the Realms, big or small. Though there are larger events, such as the Time of Troubles, which effect everything, there's many other stories that are smaller in scale but no less entertaining or interesting.

Some authors have stuck to particular corners of the Realms, but others tell stories wherever they find them. Other than a few examples, there's no real novels that I'd say form a core around which other novels are built.




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Faraer
Great Reader

3295 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2006 :  17:49:42  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Which means there isn't a single overarching structure that fairly and simply makes sense of the whole Realms novel line. From the point of view I usually favour, Ed's novels, most full of the Realms by far, are front and centre. From another point of view, Bob Salvatore's are fundamental because they sell the most, and have their own spin-offs like War of the Spider Queen. The RSEs form their own category. But because of the Realms' multiplicity, any such scheme is going to exclude books, whether we're talking Azure Bonds or one of the 'character class' series, that are as worthwhile as many of the ones the scheme highlights.

Jhoebryn: you seem to be confusing following characters you like with the marketing scheme of 'iconic characters', and continuity between books with RSEs, which -- Jim Butler for one was quite frank about this -- are done out of the books department perceived need to make everything seem newer, bigger, more explosive, often against authors' preferences and fidelity to the Realms and its long-term interests.
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1176 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2006 :  11:08:39  Show Profile  Visit Kaladorm's Homepage Send Kaladorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My list of books to obtain/read. Any feedback on ones to steer clear of or get at all costs would be helpful :)

Evermeet
Shadow of the Avatars trilogy
Lost Gods series
Elminster Series
Starlight and Shadows series
War of the spider queen
Erevis Cale trilogy
The Rogues Series (don't know anything about them but I love rogues, see above for Erevis )
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2006 :  11:17:11  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

My list of books to obtain/read. Any feedback on ones to steer clear of or get at all costs would be helpful :)

Evermeet
Shadow of the Avatars trilogy
Lost Gods series
Elminster Series
Starlight and Shadows series
War of the spider queen
Erevis Cale trilogy
The Rogues Series (don't know anything about them but I love rogues, see above for Erevis )




I'm no fan of the Elminster books, myself.

As for the Lost Gods books, you can skip book 2, Fistandantilus Returns. It's a Dragginglance novel, and one that failed to do anything for me. The only thing it really does is introduce a single character for the third book, Tymora's Luck. And since that character is a kender, the backstory isn't terribly important.

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Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2877 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2006 :  11:46:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm no fan of the Elminster books, myself.

As for the Lost Gods books, you can skip book 2, Fistandantilus Returns. It's a Dragginglance novel, and one that failed to do anything for me. The only thing it really does is introduce a single character for the third book, Tymora's Luck. And since that character is a kender, the backstory isn't terribly important.



...just...
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2006 :  13:10:52  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

My list of books to obtain/read. Any feedback on ones to steer clear of or get at all costs would be helpful :)

Evermeet
Shadow of the Avatars trilogy
Lost Gods series
Elminster Series
Starlight and Shadows series
War of the spider queen
Erevis Cale trilogy
The Rogues Series (don't know anything about them but I love rogues, see above for Erevis )


Get at all costs:- Evermeet, "Elminster" series, Starlight & Shadows and the "Erevis Cale" trilogy.

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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe

USA
552 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2006 :  13:18:02  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Bane's Homepage  Send Chosen of Bane an AOL message Send Chosen of Bane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

My list of books to obtain/read. Any feedback on ones to steer clear of or get at all costs would be helpful :)

Evermeet
Shadow of the Avatars trilogy
Lost Gods series
Elminster Series
Starlight and Shadows series
War of the spider queen
Erevis Cale trilogy
The Rogues Series (don't know anything about them but I love rogues, see above for Erevis )




I would recommend Evermeet and the Lost Gods Series.
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scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1615 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2006 :  15:23:43  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

My list of books to obtain/read. Any feedback on ones to steer clear of or get at all costs would be helpful :)

Evermeet
Shadow of the Avatars trilogy
Lost Gods series
Elminster Series
Starlight and Shadows series
War of the spider queen
Erevis Cale trilogy
The Rogues Series (don't know anything about them but I love rogues, see above for Erevis )




I have them all and would say read eash and every one. However, do not miss out on Erivis Cale, Starlight and Shadows, and Evermeet.

"Yap,yap, little dog!" - Riven - page 326 Shadowbred, by Paul Kemp

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I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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