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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 06:23:43
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I'm moving this here, to keep both scrolls neat and tidy -
quote:
Originally posted by Melfius
Mayhap we should should construct three lists here:
Natural Wonders of Faerūn
Man-Made Wonders of Faerūn
Divine Wonders of Faerūn
An example of Divine Wonders would be the Well of Spells referenced on pg.5 of Volo's Guide to All Things Magical
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
There are 3 deep trenches in the Sea of Fallen Stars that descend to unplumbed depths.
As for man-made wonders (well, dwarf-made anyway) there is a really cool bridge, the Stone Bridge that spans the River Dessarin which was built by dwarves 5,000 years ago. It is a mile long, 100 feet wide and 150 feet tall. I think it should qualify as one of the wonders of the ancient world.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 06:30:34
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Although, for the most part, they no longer exist... the floating cities of Netheril would have been another example of great man-made wonders.
And in a similar regard, the enchanted architecture of many Halruuan cities certainly provide a taste of man-made wonders in the making.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 07:23:31
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The Calim Desert.
However, it's not exactly man because it was the result of fighting between a djinni and an efreeti.  |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 11:27:55
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The Falling Tower would be one... Someone mentioned the Bell in the Deeps in the other thread...
I think a couple of the mythal-cities would qualify, too. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 12:08:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Falling Tower would be one... Someone mentioned the Bell in the Deeps in the other thread...
I think a couple of the mythal-cities would qualify, too.
Couple of mythal cities? Hmm..Mytha Drannor and Evereska should qualify I think. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 13:01:55
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Okay, mayhap I should have said it were Mortal-Made Wonders. Cry yer pardon!  |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
Edited by - Melfius on 01 Aug 2005 13:45:16 |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 13:29:26
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| I remember reading an accesorie about dwarfes in the Forgottten Realms. In there where mentioned a dwarfen city inside a huge statue of a dwarf. The statue were carved out of an entire mountain and was ceveral miles high. I will look for more precise descriptions and post them if i cand find them. But it is a man made wonder in my book. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 13:52:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Faramicos
I remember reading an accesorie about dwarfes in the Forgottten Realms. In there where mentioned a dwarfen city inside a huge statue of a dwarf. The statue were carved out of an entire mountain and was ceveral miles high. I will look for more precise descriptions and post them if i cand find them. But it is a man made wonder in my book.
That's the Wailing Dwarf. The 4,000 foot stone statue occupies the eastern face of the Troll Mountains. See Ed's Dwarves Deep accessory for more information.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 15:32:20
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| What about the song paths of the kingdom of Illefarn those are interesting. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 15:38:17
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| Well the Anaurach is a byproduct of human actions, while it's more of a blight than a wonder, it might be considered. |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 16:02:33
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Okay, how about we lay some groud rules here then? What do you think should be required to deem a structure a Wonder? Here's some of my ideas:
1. Cannot be reproduced today using the same methods. This stems from the pyramids of Egypt. While we could make one today quite easily, it was how the ancients did it that makes it a wonder.
2. Must be unique. This will probably cause a few (read: ALOT) of arguements, because it negates the Netherese Enclaves and mythals, but with the incredible number of items to choose from, it makes sense to limit them. Magical creations would have to have a higher set of restrictions because of this fact. An item that would make the cut would be Evermeet itself. But I question the inclusion of The Tree of Souls. I think that qualifies as an artifact, and thus divine.
3. Must be recognizable by a majority. Basically, I don't think the pyramids would be such a big thing if only a few people know about them.
Feel free to debate my ideas!  |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 16:21:26
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| The Soaring Spirit, the cathedral dedicated to Deneir built by Cadderly. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 16:34:18
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Wonderful, DDH! I forgot all about that one! Definitely on the list!
Who knows? Maybe this could become a collaborative article in the next Candlekeep Compendium? |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 17:24:49
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| Melfius, I would add an amendment that these were intentional creations rather than unintentional or catastropohic deviations. |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 17:45:34
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| I will admit that the temple built by Cadderly is an impressive structure, but i wouldent go as far as to call i a WONDER. We need to be careful with how many "winders" we proclaim or the meaning of the word will diminish. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 18:48:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Melfius, I would add an amendment that these were intentional creations rather than unintentional or catastropohic deviations.
I agree, although the catastrophic ones would probably have fallen under Natural Wonders.
Faramicos - I agree, and want to stay away from that myself. Do you have any additional suggestions as to how we should qualify a Wonder? |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 19:13:41
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| Made by mortals, unique, excisting today (to avoid fables and myths taking over). Cant think of anything else. Think we have the core definitions of what a man-made wonder is. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 19:31:53
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| I'd change the "existing today" portion to say that it should exist in some recognizable form today. Remember, the Colossus of Rhodes, or the Lighthouse of Alexandria, no longer exists, per se. But enough remains that they can be validated. |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
Edited by - Melfius on 02 Aug 2005 00:59:27 |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 19:45:03
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| Now, here is the big sticking point. How do we classify magic? IE: SPirit Soaring could be well thought of as a Divine Wonder as it was built solely by clerical powers channeled by a Chosen of Deneir. That's pretty Divine in nature if you ask me. |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 20:53:18
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Well, I have to agree that here is where we're going to get into the 'grey areas'. (Much like the way today's scientist's are trying to decide the exact definition of what constitutes a plant).
Spirit Soaring is a great example to use. While Cadderly did in fact utilize divine magic in it's creation, a good part of it also came from his own life force (hence the aging). Also, regardless of the materials used (the divine magic), it was a mortal that actually created the object in question.
Another question we should ask at this point is, "Could this be done again?" In the case of Spirit Soaring, I would have to say no. This was a one-shot done by a follower of Deneir. The processes used had never been seen before (that we know of), and it is doubtful that Deneir would do so again, or that another deity would want to be seen as derivitive by allowing a follower to do the same.
Looking at it from the context of a common person, Cadderly performed an incredible feat by constructing this marvelous temple by himself, which cost him dearly. From the view of a commoner, this would make it 'wonderful'.
For an item, object, what-have-you to be part of the Divine Wonders, it should have been accomplished solely by a divine being (for example, Karse and the butte contained therein - created by Karsus during the moment he achieved divinity).
As for Cadderly being a 'Chosen of Deneir', this is a relative term. Technically (and most of what can be read here on Candlekeep and elsewhere) Mystra is the only deity with Chosen-chosen (boy, this do give me a headache, it does!). Other deities can have 'special friends' that they term chosen, but it's not really the same. Kinda like oranges and tangerines. Most would call them both oranges, but there is a subtle difference.
At the very least, Spirit Soaring should be considered one of the 'Modern Mortal-Made Wonders of Faerūn'. |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 00:48:54
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No mention yet of The Dragon Wall? While it does host the spirit of a dragon, it's still a massive physical structure, awe inspiring to any who behold it.
Though its not *yet* cannon, the upcoming Watercourse Trilogy will detail the construction of a massive canal connecting the Sea of Fallen Stars with the Sword Coast. That would certainly qualify as a wonder if/when it is completed. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 00:54:57
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Well, I hadn't thought of including anything outside of Faerūn, but that doesn't mean I wont!
Another one that just came to mind as I drove my wife and daughter back from dinner: Undermountain! I think Halaster's playground qualifies, doesn't it? |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 01:59:58
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Okay, here's what we have so far:
Undermountain
Evermeet
Spirit Soaring
The Stone Bridge
The Dragonwall
Comments? Questions? Miss anything? |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 02:33:26
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The Moon Bridge in Silverymoon.
Melfius, Evermeet is not a man-made wonder. It's merely a piece of Arvandor transferred to Faerun by the elven deities. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 02:37:46
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Was there one of the Netherese flying cities that was considered the greatest or largest? I think at least one of them should qualify.
Maybe also we should top out the list at 7, the Seven Wonders of Faerūn, just for the sake of symmetry. |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 02:51:49
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DDH - I thought that Evermeet was created from a part of the mainland? I was going on the tale told in the Evermeet novel. Not to say you're wrong, I sometimes miss subtlty!
Also, I like the Moonbridge.
Gray - Was it Ioulaum? Or Karsus? I'll have to look it up. 
Seven is a good number. Besides, any more and I'm going to have to open some restrictions. |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 06:24:20
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Melfius, the elven High Mages did try to create Evermeet. However, the spell failed miserably and ended up creating giantic waves that killed many people and destroyed many seaside cities.
Afterwards, Corellon and another elven deity (forgot who it was) gave a female elf a vision of where Evermeet is, and telling her how they used their magic to bring a piece of Arvandor to Faerun. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 08:17:31
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| DDH - Was that what was in the novel? Wow. Can't believe I forgot that! |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 11:09:09
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| How about the Wailing Dwarf. A 4,000 foot stone statue occupying the eastern face of the Troll Mountains. An entire mountain carved into a gargantuan statue with an entire city inside should qualifie... |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 13:23:14
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| THAT was what I was missing! Thanks, Faramicos! |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 14:29:31
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New list:
Undermountain
The Moonbridge
Spirit Soaring
The Stone Bridge
The Dragonwall
The Wailing Dwarf
After re-thinking the whole "Pyramid of Giza"-thing, I think it would be safe to include Ioulaum (or Karsus) Enclave. There are several pyramids, but the main one at Giza is included due to it's size. As Gray pointed out, that Enclave (whichever one it is, I still need to look) was much larger than the others. Do y'all think that would give good reason? |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Man-made wonders of the Realms
