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 Gold Elves - What attitude do they really have?
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2005 :  19:53:05  Show Profile  Click to see Crennen FaerieBane's MSN Messenger address Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Poll Question:
I have a great many books and supplements for the realms over the years and the one things that always amazed me is the shocking difference in which some authors portray the Ar-Tel-Quessir. I personally love Gold Elfs and have played quite a few Gold Elf characters. But I wanted to know what everyone else though.

C-Fb

Choices:

Pompous Jerks
Caring Individuals, Just Aloof
Powerhungry Magicwielders
Cowards for hiding from the rest of Faerun

(Anonymous Vote)

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2005 :  00:36:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gold elves are just like anyone else: you can find all kinds of attitudes among them. Kymil Nimesin is xenophobic and wants to advance the gold elves at the cost of everyone else; Araevin Teshurr is a good guy who gets along with just about everyone.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2005 :  01:54:17  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Gold elves are just like anyone else: you can find all kinds of attitudes among them. Kymil Nimesin is xenophobic and wants to advance the gold elves at the cost of everyone else; Araevin Teshurr is a good guy who gets along with just about everyone.

Indeed, I would have to agree.

However, we must not forget either that most elven races -- gold elves in particular -- can be very "static" in their opinions about things, being unwilling to change their stance regardless of how it affects others around them... the opening of Myth Drannor to other races and the need for elven acceptance of other racial groups is excluded from this.

A classic example of the "gold elf" attitude towards their kin comes to mind -- from Elaine's Elfshadow -- wherein it is said that the "ancient gold elves believe they have succumbed to the rule of their inferiors (being grey elves) for far too long."

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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1176 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2005 :  02:18:56  Show Profile  Visit Kaladorm's Homepage Send Kaladorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just one question, Gold Elves = Sun Elves, Grey Elves = Moon Elves, or have I got the wrong end of the stick? :)
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2005 :  02:31:03  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kal, you are sticking the right direction, lol.

The way I have seen it, gold elves are essentially good aligned, as are most elven races. That means that they will put themselves out to help others, perhaps even risk their lives to do so, and that they will do what they can to advance the situation of others less fortunate.

However, this leaves a lot of room for personality traits, thinking that humans and others are smelly and short sighted, and thinking that they have wasted much of the gifts that have been given to them (and perhaps forgetting that the human they view has wasteful is several generations from the humans who dealt with the elves).


"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2005 :  03:44:37  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

Just one question, Gold Elves = Sun Elves, Grey Elves = Moon Elves, or have I got the wrong end of the stick? :)



Gold elves = sun elves, yes.

Grey (or gray) is considered a derogatory term for Moon (or Silver) elves.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Jul 2005 03:45:40
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Never
Seeker

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2005 :  08:51:44  Show Profile  Visit Never's Homepage Send Never a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To some extent, all races think they're better than the other races. I see this as a mirror of the way different human cultures view one another, are the Japanese polite to the point of disingenuousness or are Americans honest to the point of rudeness? Are Gold Elves overly aloof or are Humans overly chummy?

I once had the experience of interacting with a youngish, Chinese gentleman who had just learned English. We were talking casually, having just met, and he decided to give me a present, told me he was going to be my brother, and stood way too close to me. I found this creepy and was uncomfortable, however, from what I know of Chinese culture, his behavior was friendly and polite.

In areas where elves and humans mix, I tend to see both as having altered their behavior and/or expectations of what is considered normal. In areas where gold elves dominate, I expect 'aloofness' to be the norm and that interacting with an 'average', chummy human only makes them withdraw more.

I'm so, so very guilty for no reason or rhyme;
Infinite victims, infinitesimal time.
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2005 :  15:59:08  Show Profile  Click to see Crennen FaerieBane's MSN Messenger address Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm

Just one question, Gold Elves = Sun Elves, Grey Elves = Moon Elves, or have I got the wrong end of the stick? :)



Gold elves = sun elves, yes.

Grey (or gray) is considered a derogatory term for Moon (or Silver) elves.



Isn't it funny how the name for a standard subrace in D&D - the equivalent of gold elves - is a derogatory remark concerning moon elves, which are the equivalent of high elves, which the gold elves call themselves.... wild.

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe

USA
299 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2005 :  16:28:52  Show Profile  Visit Fletcher's Homepage Send Fletcher a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gold elves aren't stuck up, you just don't understand how cool they are. I know because i made the mistake of asking one once, and I had to spend the next two months listening to just how much cooler gold elves were than any other race on Faerun.

Stuck-up, snobby, arrogant, and haughty...but they mean well.

Damned Americans...uh...elves.

Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up!
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RAKKIR
Seeker

61 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2005 :  22:13:41  Show Profile  Visit RAKKIR's Homepage Send RAKKIR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think a good portion of Gold Elves tend towards the tennets of goodness. HOWEVER, I think it very much comes down to who they are dealing with.

When dealing with OTHER elves most act with general "good" tendancies.

When dealing with OTHER races, I would say most act with a more neutral attitude. Maybe I could be generous and say with "tendancies" towards goodness. That is my opinion based on Realms canon and novels.

Now, as far as my personal opinion...

In particular, I don't feel that Forgotten Realms elves are nearly as "good" as they claim to be, or as many people think them to be.

Of course, I'm heavily biased I suppose. My main character (the one I mention in my "Wealth Creation In/Near Waterdeep" thread) has an abiding hatred of elves. So much so that, given the chance, he'll kill them. A lone elf he meets in the wilderness is likely to suffer a bad fate. One that is almost gauranteed it they act as a "typical elf."

"Nothing says fun" to him like "ridding the world of a hypocritical gold-elf."

In my campaign my character was initially a fighter and was bethrothed to a female elf party member (actually an NPC played by the DM since we had a small group of players and need more to form a viable adventuring company.) The party entered an old tomb and ended up facing a Netherese Lich. Most of the party but my character and one cleric died. When my character took the remains of his fiance back to the elven clan...the clan turned on him. Of course, being human I was responsible for the death of one of the Tel-Quessir and that my "piggish human love" was an insult to their dead daughter and I could never know the bond the elves shared. One I had now taken away from them. For which, I'd pay....
So, my character was tortured bruttally and locked up to face execution. He barely managed to escape with his life and swore a vengence upon elves that day.

Many game years later he's slaughtered his share of elves. All discretly of course. He even uses magic-jar to masquerade as an elf...who goes by the name "Zalatar Greenleaf" in order to gain entrance to places where humans would immediately be suspect.

So, I was a very happy camper when Evermeet came out and Ithak-Orthel was rampaging through the most holy groves of Correlion and the high-mages turned on one another.

Then, when Evereska was almost snubbed out...that was beautiful.

UNFORTUNATELY....I notice that in the "Last Mythal" series the elves have seemingly managed to summon a fairly potent army our of nowhere (seemingly to me considering what happened on Evermeet) and are going to make a resurgance on the mainland. I have a crawling, and abiding, fear that somehow the elves will manage to "retake" Myth Drannor. Or establish a new Mythal or something....

On an unrelated sidenote, only vaguely related to elves, is it just me or does it seem like the Phaerim were played like total chumps in the attack on Evereska? I'm still trying to figure out how they managed to get themselves killed by so many elves with arrows and swords. It's so frustrating to me to see HIGH-LEVEL magic users, with genius level intelects, being chumped like that. Simply put, if you can FLY...how can any elf on the ground manage to hack you with his sword? And while I'm sure that the elves have plenty of magical arrows to pierce shielding spells, I got sick of reading about the arrow swarms that were dropping Phaerim like flies. Considering most of the arrows were normal arrows.. Not to mention the Phaerim had numerous charmed beholders under their command that were also being chumped too.

Ohh well....

Anyways...DEATH TO THE ELVES!
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ode904
Learned Scribe

Finland
193 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2005 :  22:19:40  Show Profile  Click to see ode904's MSN Messenger address Send ode904 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm..
I have no idea. But I voted powerhungry magicwielder just 'cause of Kymil Nimesin, the only gold elf I have read a little more..
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RAKKIR
Seeker

61 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2005 :  17:27:59  Show Profile  Visit RAKKIR's Homepage Send RAKKIR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
DEATH TO THE ELVES!!


Sorry, just felt the need to say it again.
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2005 :  19:03:28  Show Profile  Click to see Crennen FaerieBane's MSN Messenger address Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey, the elves never did anything besides create Moondrop and Feywine, and those, my friends, are a reason Elves rock!!! Ok, yeah, they're good at magic, create empires, and live forever - but it's their spirits that make them kick!

C-Fb


Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe

785 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2005 :  01:35:34  Show Profile  Visit Shadovar's Homepage Send Shadovar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I say gold elves are a bunch of pompous and arrogant lot of elves, who are often deluded by the idea of themselves being superior to other non-elves elves not of the gold variety.

We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend.
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Arlenion
Seeker

36 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2005 :  04:51:52  Show Profile  Visit Arlenion's Homepage Send Arlenion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd say that many of the noble sun elves have a very arrogant attitude and have a hard time being respectful to other subraces of elves. There hasn't been much information about non-noble sun elves.
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe

785 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2005 :  09:00:17  Show Profile  Visit Shadovar's Homepage Send Shadovar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sun elves tend to think they are the founders of the great elven cilvilisations in Faerun such as Myth Drannor. Their accomplishments blind them, even to hidden foes.

We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend.
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Krafus
Learned Scribe

246 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2005 :  14:34:25  Show Profile  Visit Krafus's Homepage  Send Krafus an AOL message Send Krafus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted for pompous jerks. Recently, while rereading Evermeet, on several occasions I felt like rolling up a CE level 20 barbarian and go start collecting golden pointed ears...
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khorne
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1071 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2005 :  20:15:39  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage  Click to see khorne's MSN Messenger address Send khorne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Krafus

I voted for pompous jerks. Recently, while rereading Evermeet, on several occasions I felt like rolling up a CE level 20 barbarian and go start collecting golden pointed ears...

I had pretty much the same experience. When I was reading the book(I don`t remember which part) my sister came into my room and said that I looked completely rabid. Something about sun elf nobles makes the Malar in me come forth.

If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy
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Faraer
Great Reader

3295 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2005 :  21:06:50  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think it's a shame that too many sources have concentrated on the gold-elf lunatic fringe, leading to a common perception of them that I think is well wide of the mark. They are, primarily, good-aligned, and the negative stuff is relative nuance layered on top of that.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2005 :  01:15:09  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hm . . . thats strange . . . Evermeet seemed a little more balanced to me. There were some arrogant gold elves, but also some cool High Mages and all . . .

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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Krafus
Learned Scribe

246 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2005 :  02:02:38  Show Profile  Visit Krafus's Homepage  Send Krafus an AOL message Send Krafus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

Hm . . . thats strange . . . Evermeet seemed a little more balanced to me. There were some arrogant gold elves, but also some cool High Mages and all . . .



Hmm - maybe I'm biased, but the gold elves I remember most from Evermeet are Kymil Nimesin (who as we all know is a bigoted supremacist bastard) and Durothil (the original, who worshipped Ghaunadaur). I find it especially ironic that the oldest, haughtiest gold elf house is named after an elf who worshipped an evil god and betrayed a fellow elf. I wonder what Selsharra Durothil (the current head of House Durothil and an ultra-conservative bitch) would do with that bit of news...
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2005 :  02:04:48  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kymil I didn't really count since he was a previously existing example, and, in my opinion, WAY out of his league in Evermeet (in fact, it was rather funny having him realize that Lolth was on his side).

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  20:15:39  Show Profile  Click to see Crennen FaerieBane's MSN Messenger address Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

Kymil I didn't really count since he was a previously existing example, and, in my opinion, WAY out of his league in Evermeet (in fact, it was rather funny having him realize that Lolth was on his side).



I agree... Kymil was way out of his league and way too far out... he would have failed even six sigma testing for attitudes amongst gold elves. Seveiril from the Baker trilogy is probably one of the coolest Gold elves around, plus Araevin isn't too bad. Also, that Gold Elf B. Durothil who married Eva Moonflower was also pretty chill once his Moon Elf woman slapped him upside his noggin.

C-Fb

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
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darkflame millithor
Seeker

USA
52 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2006 :  00:41:40  Show Profile  Visit darkflame millithor's Homepage Send darkflame millithor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My,my,my everyone is always willing to give the golds the benefit of dout. how many times do they have to prove their evilness! they are popmpous a**holes who destroyed an innocent nation of wild and dark elves. Kimmil wasn't atipical,he shared the common trait of most golds
just as Gromph shares the common trait of our poeple. Keep it honest! areven is the rare gold!

purge all weakness in the cleanzing flame of
rightousness.tear down the false idols of love,compassion,and self-sacrifice.down with the tyranny of the seldarine
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darkflame millithor
Seeker

USA
52 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2006 :  00:49:46  Show Profile  Visit darkflame millithor's Homepage Send darkflame millithor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rakkir,we LIKE your work.It is a great thing to see one of the lesser races strip away the web of lies that protect the golds from their just deserts. We have no love of the rivvil but,we do appreciate the growth of your development. As long as you keep your work to the Light elves,there is no reason why we can't compliment your wonderful work! DEATH TO THE SURFACE ELVES!
We'll deal with the left over iblith after they serve their purpose!

purge all weakness in the cleanzing flame of
rightousness.tear down the false idols of love,compassion,and self-sacrifice.down with the tyranny of the seldarine
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Vainelus
Seeker

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2006 :  04:20:54  Show Profile  Visit Vainelus's Homepage  Send Vainelus an AOL message Send Vainelus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gold elves that receive a traditional gold elf education (those raised on Evermeet) are typically arrogant and prideful, because of biased teachers. However, after being exposed to the other "good" races they often realize that their teachers did not provide them with truth but instead wishful fancies. I kind of view the gold elf education system as similar to the drow system. Drizzt was taught all elves were cruel and out to harm the drow. However, when Drizzt encountered an actual elf village he realized that he had been misled. I think the gold elves education does not go to quite the same extreme as the drow, but it is a similar principle of misrepresenting other races intentions. All humans are untrustworthy, power hungry and irresponsible etc. Leading Golds that are young and raised in all gold elf communities(or even primarily gold elf communities), or simply not well traveled to be extremely condescending to the other races.





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