Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Products
 Forgotten Realms Novels
 favourite cahracter
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 10

eeorey
Seeker

Bulgaria
96 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2015 :  21:42:03  Show Profile Send eeorey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

How many of the Songs & Swords books have you read? Because if you've not read all of the books, you've not gotten the full picture. Elaith really grows across the span of those books. He remains ruthless and continues to lean towards evil, but there is a whole lot more to him than just being a successful crime lord.



All of them minus Thornhold, and I just don't feel like his character growth is that large, yes he gets a friend and doesn't kill EVERYBODY he meets. But I just feel like he is now putting on a mask of what he feels a father should be and projects his desire to be what he thought he was before the moon-blade rejected him on to his daughter.
I see that this isn't the popular opinion and I by no means think that he was badly written. I just think he is overrated.

Edited by - eeorey on 22 Sep 2015 21:42:56
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2015 :  22:36:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd recommend re-reading those books with a closer eye to his development...

...But in the meantime, I'll leave it at that.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

eeorey
Seeker

Bulgaria
96 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2015 :  22:50:09  Show Profile Send eeorey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fair enough. Still, I'm unlikely to change my opinion on this matter, I've also read that one novel (can't remember the name right now, I think it was called just "Waterdeep" by Ed and Elain) about a bunch of nobles and a monster-cult that he was featured in, this was the one where he annoyed me the most.

Edited by - eeorey on 22 Sep 2015 22:50:34
Go to Top of Page

Schreckstoff
Seeker

53 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2015 :  21:13:19  Show Profile Send Schreckstoff a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Farideh didn't exist back then, but her atm.

Urgh why isn't it december already. Looking more forward to it than Star Wars.

Complete Drizzt Saga - Check
In love with Farideh's Saga - Check
Disappointed at Erevis' Saga's apparent end - Check
Go to Top of Page

Mooria
Acolyte

Norway
1 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2015 :  22:01:32  Show Profile Send Mooria a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mirt the Moneylender! The essence of Warwedeep. Durnan comes in on a close second.. Btw, Mirt is also EG's fav char ;)

I do CARE!! I take an interest, just like Mirt does ;)
Go to Top of Page

Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2015 :  23:32:32  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by eeorey

Fair enough. Still, I'm unlikely to change my opinion on this matter, I've also read that one novel (can't remember the name right now, I think it was called just "Waterdeep" by Ed and Elain) about a bunch of nobles and a monster-cult that he was featured in, this was the one where he annoyed me the most.



The City of Splendors is the book you are thinking about. I too didn't care for Elaith in that book, though I didn't mind him in other books.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2

Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede
Go to Top of Page

The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2015 :  06:31:20  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by eeorey

quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan

I like too many characters to choose...



Same for me.

Also what's with so many people liking Elaith, I couldn't stand the guy, I hated him so much. When Elain Cunningham post the first chapter of her canceled book in which he died I felt so good. I know I'm talking about a fictional character but damn he always got on my nerves.
To me he's right there with Joffrey, Ramsay Bolton (the one from the books), Professor Umbridge, Commissar Beige, pretty much any eldar from a 40k novel, pretty much any elf from a Dgragonlance novel and Jar-Jar.



I think that's a highly unfair comparison. Joffrey was a pathetic, spoiled brat. Bolton appears to have some serious psychological issues and should likely be in a secure facility. And Professor Umbridge was sanctimonious to the point of maliciousness -- she was practically a cariacature of those people that equate authority with morality and superiority.

Elaith, on the other hand, was never so simple as any of those people. He wasn't a brat, he wasn't crazy, and he didn't act like he was better than anyone around him -- instead, he lacked the ability to find his own way and simply followed whatever course someone else laid out for him. He was determined to be the best at his chosen path; his weakness lay in finding the path for himself.

And unlike Joffrey, Bolton, or Umbridge (I'm unfamiliar with the rest), Elaith goes through a lot of personal growth through the series, realizing he could in fact determine his own path and then working to follow it.

Elaith is interesting because he's not just a simple, one-note character. He's evil, yes, but you can understand and sympathize with him a lot better than you can with a spoiled brat or a smug caricature of twisted authority. He grows as a character, and even enters into that odd position of redemption without reformation.

For my money, there's no more intriguing a villain to be found in the Realms, and precious few as interesting anywhere else. A villain that you can understand and sympathize with is far more interesting than Random Bad Guy #17, no matter how powerful the latter is.



Got to go with Wooly on this one. Elaine has several of the most fully developed characters is the realms and Elaith is hardly and exception.

He is cold, calculating, meticulous, and dangerous - but he also is the shadow of the ideal elf (which is what he was, or at least believed he was, as a noble royal guard of Evermeet).

He is loyal - to the point of practicality - and he responds to betrayal with swift lethality.

He is honorable - but conniving - and walks and a blades edge of following the letter of an agreement.

He is past the simple pride of elves and instead feels an abiding disdain of the 'lesser' races which is only overcome by the usefulness of individuals

He is greedy and selfish - but he is capable of incredible self-sacrifice (which is how he rekindled his family's blade)

He can be capricious and cruel, toying with his foes like a cat - or he can be swift and deadly like the Serpent he is known for - or in the rarest of moments he can be merciful.


So far, the best scene (in my opinion) that shows a window into Elaith's depth is when he does a ritual blade dance in the novel Elfsong, it was this moment is when Danilo first realized Elaith was something more than a Waterdeep crime lord. It revealed in Elaith a reservoir of elven magic, tradition, and beauty that outstripped the bard's ability to wholly comprehend all held back behind a damn of conflict, contempt and anger.
Go to Top of Page

Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2015 :  15:50:30  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by eeorey

quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan

I like too many characters to choose...



Same for me.

Also what's with so many people liking Elaith, I couldn't stand the guy, I hated him so much. When Elain Cunningham post the first chapter of her canceled book in which he died I felt so good. I know I'm talking about a fictional character but damn he always got on my nerves.
To me he's right there with Joffrey, Ramsay Bolton (the one from the books), Professor Umbridge, Commissar Beige, pretty much any eldar from a 40k novel, pretty much any elf from a Dgragonlance novel and Jar-Jar.



I think that's a highly unfair comparison. Joffrey was a pathetic, spoiled brat. Bolton appears to have some serious psychological issues and should likely be in a secure facility. And Professor Umbridge was sanctimonious to the point of maliciousness -- she was practically a cariacature of those people that equate authority with morality and superiority.

Elaith, on the other hand, was never so simple as any of those people. He wasn't a brat, he wasn't crazy, and he didn't act like he was better than anyone around him -- instead, he lacked the ability to find his own way and simply followed whatever course someone else laid out for him. He was determined to be the best at his chosen path; his weakness lay in finding the path for himself.

And unlike Joffrey, Bolton, or Umbridge (I'm unfamiliar with the rest), Elaith goes through a lot of personal growth through the series, realizing he could in fact determine his own path and then working to follow it.

Elaith is interesting because he's not just a simple, one-note character. He's evil, yes, but you can understand and sympathize with him a lot better than you can with a spoiled brat or a smug caricature of twisted authority. He grows as a character, and even enters into that odd position of redemption without reformation.

For my money, there's no more intriguing a villain to be found in the Realms, and precious few as interesting anywhere else. A villain that you can understand and sympathize with is far more interesting than Random Bad Guy #17, no matter how powerful the latter is.



Got to go with Wooly on this one. Elaine has several of the most fully developed characters is the realms and Elaith is hardly and exception.

He is cold, calculating, meticulous, and dangerous - but he also is the shadow of the ideal elf (which is what he was, or at least believed he was, as a noble royal guard of Evermeet).

He is loyal - to the point of practicality - and he responds to betrayal with swift lethality.

He is honorable - but conniving - and walks and a blades edge of following the letter of an agreement.

He is past the simple pride of elves and instead feels an abiding disdain of the 'lesser' races which is only overcome by the usefulness of individuals

He is greedy and selfish - but he is capable of incredible self-sacrifice (which is how he rekindled his family's blade)

He can be capricious and cruel, toying with his foes like a cat - or he can be swift and deadly like the Serpent he is known for - or in the rarest of moments he can be merciful.


So far, the best scene (in my opinion) that shows a window into Elaith's depth is when he does a ritual blade dance in the novel Elfsong, it was this moment is when Danilo first realized Elaith was something more than a Waterdeep crime lord. It revealed in Elaith a reservoir of elven magic, tradition, and beauty that outstripped the bard's ability to wholly comprehend all held back behind a damn of conflict, contempt and anger.




I don't think eeory was comparing Elaith to Joffrey and those other characters. Looks like he was just lumping him in with other characters who he didn't care for.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2

Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 10 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2024 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000