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 is jarlaxle good or evil?
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Genis
Learned Scribe

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2006 :  02:51:05  Show Profile  Visit Genis's Homepage Send Genis a Private Message
what evil acts do you know that he willinly commits and or doesnt regret? hes an opputunist yes...but theres been many good oppurunities that he has passed up in acts of kindness....so no i dont think he is evil...i think he was born of an evil race and grew up in a evil world and is making the best of it which includes most of his actions actually being reletivily good and or neutral to say the least

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2006 :  03:01:33  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Genis

what evil acts do you know that he willinly commits and or doesnt regret?



Well remember that the truth is, we don't know that much about Jarlaxle's life to begin with. Also, he has always been identified--alignment-wise--as neutral evil, and I see no real reason to disagree with that assessment.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
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Genis
Learned Scribe

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2006 :  03:11:53  Show Profile  Visit Genis's Homepage Send Genis a Private Message
exactly.....something along that line...SCORE she agrees with me...and shes like jesus on here...with her in depth opinions and large words....so SNAP to that other guy who thinks he is complitly evil with no doubt about it...he obviously didnt read the books closly enough

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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe

USA
552 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2006 :  03:51:17  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Bane's Homepage  Send Chosen of Bane an AOL message Send Chosen of Bane a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Genis

what evil acts do you know that he willinly commits...


How about Theft and Murder? So, to use your words...Oh Snap (god, I can't believe I wrote that even though I was only mocking somebody)

And speaking of not reading books carefully, flip to page 37 of the Villains lorebook. It clearly says Neutral Evil.
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Genis
Learned Scribe

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2006 :  01:47:22  Show Profile  Visit Genis's Homepage Send Genis a Private Message
well off hand i cant even recall a time that he murdered somebody in a situation other then self defense?...and i dont consider pety theft as THAT evil of a thing to do...i mean overall his actions still are suprisenly good for the fact that he is "was" the leader of a mercenaryt band of drow.....and....you smell bad:P lol

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Genis
Learned Scribe

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2006 :  01:48:11  Show Profile  Visit Genis's Homepage Send Genis a Private Message
but yeah i agree with nuetral evil....just not compeltly evil or neutral chaotic or whatever its called

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VonRaventheDaring
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USA
197 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2006 :  02:15:27  Show Profile  Visit VonRaventheDaring's Homepage  Send VonRaventheDaring a Yahoo! Message Send VonRaventheDaring a Private Message
I disagree i think Jarlaxle is chaos, i mean he worships the chaotic nature of Lolth if not lolth herself. I think he is chaotic you never know if he will do good or evil, or whatever.

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
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USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2006 :  02:47:26  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message
He only appreciates chaos for the opportunities it provides someone like himself (an opportunist!). He does not "worship" or have a special love for it in and of itself.

And really, this topic is rather absurd. Jarlaxle is and always has been described as NEUTRAL EVIL. Why is there even a debate about how chaotic he is, let alone whether or not he's good (!)?

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2006 :  08:30:16  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message
quote:

Originaly posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
And really, this topic is rather absurd. Jarlaxle is and always has been described as NEUTRAL EVIL. Why is there even a debate about how chaotic he is, let alone whether or not he's good (!)?


I fully agree with you on this.

The small glimpses we see of characters can never fully describe a characters motivations and acts anyway. Neither is the alignment system foolproof. Jarlaxle is stated as Neutral evil and I cant really see what is the problem with this more than with other characters alignments?
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe

USA
552 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2006 :  17:20:42  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Bane's Homepage  Send Chosen of Bane an AOL message Send Chosen of Bane a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin



And really, this topic is rather absurd. Jarlaxle is and always has been described as NEUTRAL EVIL. Why is there even a debate about how chaotic he is, let alone whether or not he's good (!)?



I agree, it's mind boggling.
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
762 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2006 :  18:13:16  Show Profile Send Kiaransalyn a Private Message
I swear that alignment is the biggest curse of D&D. In my experience, the majority of arguments have been caused by people using alignment as a motivation. And yet each of the Player's handbooks I own say this:

Player's Handbook 1st Edn, page 33: "Naturally, there are all shades of tendencies within each alignment."

Player's Handbook 2nd Edn, page 46: "Always consider alignment as a tool, not a straitjacket that restricts the character."

Player's Handbook 3rd Edn page 87: "Alignment is a tool for developing your character's identity. It is not a straitjacket for restricting your character."

Player's Handbook V3.5 page 103: "Alignment is a tool for developing your character's identity. It is not a straitjacket for restricting your character."

I once role-played a drow wizard, Karas Armgo who made sure his slaves were clothed in finery and well-fed. He did this solely because he knew that the other slaves would hate his slaves more, and that his supposedly kind treatment would alienate his slaves even from their peers. Judged on his actions he would appear kind yet his motivation was anything but.

My advice is to leave alignment where it belongs, in Realmscape and just concentrate on the story and the roleplay. Heck, even most of the deities don't act according to the alignment straitjackets some would have them wear.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30288 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2006 :  18:27:58  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
Not only that, but a lot of people simply misunderstand alignment. How many folk have you seen that say CN is obligated to do great good one day, and great evil the next, to "maintain the balance"? And how many folk think that evil alignments, particularly CE, do nothing but rape, torture, pillage, and murder all day, every day?

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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2006 :  18:35:15  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message
I seem to remember this being done to the idiocy in Dark Sun where the description of the Half Giant was CN and changing their behavior each day. But the worst one was always true Neutral, used to shift sides when "balance was threatened"!
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
762 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2006 :  19:15:39  Show Profile Send Kiaransalyn a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And how many folk think that evil alignments, particularly CE, do nothing but rape, torture, pillage, and murder all day, every day?



Which, if it was the case, doesn't explain why orcs multiply to such numbers. (Or drow for that matter, but let's not mention drow and alignment.) Surely, if alignment was such a straitjacket, orcs would be too busy killing one another.

Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness


Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass.
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ode904
Learned Scribe

Finland
193 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2006 :  21:19:30  Show Profile  Click to see ode904's MSN Messenger address Send ode904 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Not only that, but a lot of people simply misunderstand alignment. How many folk have you seen that say CN is obligated to do great good one day, and great evil the next, to "maintain the balance"? And how many folk think that evil alignments, particularly CE, do nothing but rape, torture, pillage, and murder all day, every day?



Agreed. CN is ''free''. CN doesn't much care about laws nor is he always doing good or evil; he/she does what she ever wants. But this is only my observation. And my opinion is that Jarlaxle is definetly CN, it just describes him the best. CE isn't all the time raping and pillaging, yes, but these kind of doings are what they are trying to do: they are evil, but doesn't mean that every evil character does that all the time.
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shadowni87
Learned Scribe

USA
111 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2006 :  19:12:00  Show Profile  Visit shadowni87's Homepage  Send shadowni87 an AOL message  Click to see shadowni87's MSN Messenger address Send shadowni87 a Private Message
i thik to properly answer this question you would have to ask your selves; was zaknafien good or evil?i fyou can answer that than you can answer about jarlaxle

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Lord Teclis
Seeker

United Kingdom
24 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2006 :  20:33:12  Show Profile  Visit Lord Teclis's Homepage Send Lord Teclis a Private Message
In the Wizards offical references it states NE. No way.... I think that he is CN all the way..
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe

Denmark
468 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2006 :  23:50:46  Show Profile  Visit Faramicos's Homepage Send Faramicos a Private Message
i vote EVIL on a base of the basic selfishnes of the majority of his actions combined with plenty of evil actions... The goal justifies the means. And if the goal is your own prosperity, even better.

"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings"
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Genis
Learned Scribe

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2006 :  01:41:26  Show Profile  Visit Genis's Homepage Send Genis a Private Message
hes actually not that selfish either, he let Drizzt and catie brie leave the underdark even tho he could have gotten a large ransome for them from any one of the matron mothers of Menzoberrenzan. so hes not THAT greedy or selfish either

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shadowni87
Learned Scribe

USA
111 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2006 :  10:05:56  Show Profile  Visit shadowni87's Homepage  Send shadowni87 an AOL message  Click to see shadowni87's MSN Messenger address Send shadowni87 a Private Message
zacknafien was freinds to jarlaxle just as drizzt to entrerii personaly think that zacknafien and jarlaxle share the same alighnment

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Genis
Learned Scribe

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2006 :  02:07:13  Show Profile  Visit Genis's Homepage Send Genis a Private Message
and i still personally hate it when people are like....well the rule book this and the rule book that etc etc.....im talking about actual books and not just rule books and i think he is nuetral good or nuetral evil.....because the only "evil" that i can tell her committed is for the most part agisnt an evil race "drow" and when you look closely he himself does very very little actual evil things throughout the books dispite the fact that he is considered evil....so to hell with the guidebooks or rulebooks....im forming my opinion off of observations from the books and not from what some dumb rulebook tells me

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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30288 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2006 :  02:49:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Genis

and i still personally hate it when people are like....well the rule book this and the rule book that etc etc.....im talking about actual books and not just rule books and i think he is nuetral good or nuetral evil.....because the only "evil" that i can tell her committed is for the most part agisnt an evil race "drow" and when you look closely he himself does very very little actual evil things throughout the books dispite the fact that he is considered evil....so to hell with the guidebooks or rulebooks....im forming my opinion off of observations from the books and not from what some dumb rulebook tells me



Belittle the rulebooks if you will, but what they say is the official version of how things are in the Realms. If a rulebook says that someone is of a particular alignment, then, regardless of whether or not you agree, that is the official stance of the people publishing the character.

One of Jarlaxle's first appearances was when he turned his forces against their employer for a better offer -- in the midst of battle! That's hardly a noble act...

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shadowni87
Learned Scribe

USA
111 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2006 :  05:18:05  Show Profile  Visit shadowni87's Homepage  Send shadowni87 an AOL message  Click to see shadowni87's MSN Messenger address Send shadowni87 a Private Message
in that civilization yuo would have done the same thing. unfortunatly its just the way things were. and i would have to personaly agree with genis

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KnightErrantJR
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USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2006 :  05:23:28  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message
Jarlaxle may be fun to read about, he may be easygoing and charismatic, but I wouldn't confuse that with him being good or even neutral. Just because he is evil doesn't mean that he has to rant about the impending doom of all good people, nor kill of underlings just becasuse the looked at him cross eyed.

Jarlaxle twists people's emotons, and pulls at their strings on purpose, just to see how they will react. For example, his "friend" Entrerei. He has been manipulating him for quite some time, including making him think that Drizzt is dead just to see how he would react with his nemesis gone.

I wouldn't trust Jarlaxle as far as a kobold could throw him, but hey, that's how I read the charcter.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

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shadowni87
Learned Scribe

USA
111 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2006 :  07:06:00  Show Profile  Visit shadowni87's Homepage  Send shadowni87 an AOL message  Click to see shadowni87's MSN Messenger address Send shadowni87 a Private Message
hopfully there will be other books on him that will go deeper in him and what hes about

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