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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13403 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2010 :  22:29:58  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

Yeah, but surely they must know that not all of us here are anti-4E?
First off, NO ONE here is anti-4e. That statement in-and-of-itself is far too ambiguous.

We are a site of fans dedicated to the setting that is The Forgotten Realms. We care not a wit what rules a person uses, or even if they play an RPG.

Secondly, I don't think anyone here is truly anti-4e FR. What we are NOT fans of is 'badness', be it poorly-conceived lore, 'thin' products, or just plain ugly maps. What we want is GOODNESS, in whatever form it takes. Many of us here complained about various things (like the ToT) long before 4e reared its head. We have NEVER been fans of 'bad lore', regardless - edition has nothing to do with it.

In every edition you will have people who like and dislike various bits of the new lore. The problem arises in 4e that there is SO MUCH new lore (a complete setting re-boot) that they have given fans too much to find issue with. I doubt any two of the so-called 'naysayers' here would even agree exactly on what they find the most distasteful.

Ergo, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the edition, and everything to do with what was presented. You will note that 3e was welcomed by most folks, which proves that edition-changes of themselves are NOT disliked.

Sorry if I went a bit OT, but I just hate when anyone says that this site is filled with 'anti-4e folk', which is a blatant inaccuracy. Before 4e came along you could find plenty of threads wherein folks complained about any number of lore-related subjects. The vast number of setting-changes have merely given us more fodder for these types of discussions.

So some of us may dislike parts of 4e, but using the term '4e-hater' is too broad a description to honestly describe what is happening here and elsewhere.

Anyhow, I would love to do another CKC article, but I don't think that will ever happen, which is sad, because a lot of good came out of those compendiums.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2010 :  22:50:33  Show Profile  Visit Knight of the Gate's Homepage  Send Knight of the Gate a Yahoo! Message Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

Yeah, but surely they must know that not all of us here are anti-4E?
First off, NO ONE here is anti-4e. That statement in-and-of-itself is far too ambiguous.

We are a site of fans dedicated to the setting that is The Forgotten Realms. We care not a wit what rules a person uses, or even if they play an RPG.

Secondly, I don't think anyone here is truly anti-4e FR. What we are NOT fans of is 'badness', be it poorly-conceived lore, 'thin' products, or just plain ugly maps. What we want is GOODNESS, in whatever form it takes. Many of us here complained about various things (like the ToT) long before 4e reared its head. We have NEVER been fans of 'bad lore', regardless - edition has nothing to do with it.

In every edition you will have people who like and dislike various bits of the new lore. The problem arises in 4e that there is SO MUCH new lore (a complete setting re-boot) that they have given fans too much to find issue with. I doubt any two of the so-called 'naysayers' here would even agree exactly on what they find the most distasteful.

Ergo, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the edition, and everything to do with what was presented. You will note that 3e was welcomed by most folks, which proves that edition-changes of themselves are NOT disliked.

Sorry if I went a bit OT, but I just hate when anyone says that this site is filled with 'anti-4e folk', which is a blatant inaccuracy. Before 4e came along you could find plenty of threads wherein folks complained about any number of lore-related subjects. The vast number of setting-changes have merely given us more fodder for these types of discussions.

So some of us may dislike parts of 4e, but using the term '4e-hater' is too broad a description to honestly describe what is happening here and elsewhere.

Anyhow, I would love to do another CKC article, but I don't think that will ever happen, which is sad, because a lot of good came out of those compendiums.



Well-said, MT. I, for one, think there was a lot that was very well-done with 4E (as in the rule set) but disliked most of the things done with 4E (the Realms). I am no doubt one of the most vocal scribes in deriding the 4E Realms, but I don't like being painted as a '4E Hater'- I'm even now using elements of the 4E Realms in my ongoing game cc1372 DR.

Back on topic:
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

[quote]Originally posted by Alisttair


My god, we really are just like the Scribes at the 'Keep, aren't we?

"Do NOT risk the knowledge within!"

Hahaha... I actually thought of this after I wrote it. Nonetheless, I think it's a great guiding principle.

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13403 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2010 :  21:37:16  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And you know what Lady Nouméa Cardellith said regarding the Sages of Candlekeep:

"I think you're among the most dangerous and powerful forces on all Toril."


We are the keepers of lore - we have the power to help or hinder.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3053 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2010 :  12:50:33  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

Yeah, but surely they must know that not all of us here are anti-4E?
First off, NO ONE here is anti-4e. That statement in-and-of-itself is far too ambiguous.


I'm not saying many are anti-4E, nor am I saying that no one is anti-4E, but upon reading some of the posts that have been made since 4E came (no scribes being finger pointed here), many of them can be perceived as being anti-4E. In most cases, reading more posts from said perceived anti-4E scribes reveals them as not being anti-4E, but not everyone(WotC employees perhaps) would be guaranteed to read more and find that out. And of course, others leave some doubt in the mind, but again, maybe that is from not reading every single post. Of course, sir Markus, you are the former (strongly opinionated while very open minded).

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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arry
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
313 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2010 :  13:27:53  Show Profile Send arry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In that case the damage is already done.

As no Compendium is going to be produced until esteemed WotC clarifies the situation (i.e. never), the entire point is moot.
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3053 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2010 :  15:51:57  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by arry

In that case the damage is already done.

As no Compendium is going to be produced until esteemed WotC clarifies the situation (i.e. never), the entire point is moot.



Sure feels that way...who knows what the future will bring.

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6167 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2010 :  18:33:12  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The future will bring us 5E of course!

Eat lots of garlic - it keeps the elves and vampires away.
Don't stick your sword into dragons, you just don't know where they've been.
Avoid stepping on halflings. They stick to your boots, will smell awful, and are impossible to scrape off.
Ah, of course. Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
[/Ayrik]
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13403 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2010 :  00:54:27  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believed 5e was was sort-of announced only a few weeks after 4e hit the shelves.

I don't remember the precise details - it was at Euro-Con IIRC - and some 'official' type person was asked "are there any plans for a 5e?", and the answer was something along the lines of "I would be lying if I said it hasn't come up".

I remember it struck me very funny.

So a corporation that is in-business to sell products plans on eventually releasing a new line of products?

How Extraordinary!

Seriously - sometimes even a grognard can't help but laugh at us.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6167 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2010 :  01:06:04  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is this an instance of Chekhov's Canon?

Eat lots of garlic - it keeps the elves and vampires away.
Don't stick your sword into dragons, you just don't know where they've been.
Avoid stepping on halflings. They stick to your boots, will smell awful, and are impossible to scrape off.
Ah, of course. Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
[/Ayrik]
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13403 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2010 :  02:18:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think you may have stumped me with that reference...

Are you referring to Chekhov's Gun? If so, I'm still not getting the connection.

Unless you mean the other Chekhov, but I understand he was more into Photon Torpedoes then canons.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6167 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2010 :  02:26:05  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, it was intended to be a pun on Chekhov's Gun. (Defined at Wikipedia and TV Tropes, but don't click on the second site unless you have a few hours to kill.)

I don't think the other Chekhov was in charge of the Photon Torpedo button. In fact, I really have no idea what purpose he served beyond always being the first victim of sinister plot events.

Eat lots of garlic - it keeps the elves and vampires away.
Don't stick your sword into dragons, you just don't know where they've been.
Avoid stepping on halflings. They stick to your boots, will smell awful, and are impossible to scrape off.
Ah, of course. Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
[/Ayrik]
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2010 :  03:04:17  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay fellow scribes, we're deviating somewhat from the topic. Let's return to the actual discussion at hand, eh?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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irinotecan
Acolyte

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2010 :  03:38:46  Show Profile  Visit irinotecan's Homepage  Send irinotecan an AOL message  Click to see irinotecan's MSN Messenger address Send irinotecan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK I'm sort-of new here (not really, but not active enough to fully understand what's been going on); but I'm reading through and seeing something about "waiting for WotC's fansite policy" WRT anymore Compendiums getting published.

Can someone explain to me what the importance is of this policy is? My understanding is that the Compendium is largely unofficial realmslore, correct? Is there really need to worry about non-canon "fanlore" if Wizards doesn't give it an official blessing, so long as it's labeled as such? Is the worry here that Wizards/Hasbro could get mad enough to invoke "copyright infringement" and yank the candlekeep.com domain? And is this why, in general, it seems that the realmslore/fanlore scrolls have stagnated here since '07?

One other thought, since I suspect there is a strong likelihood of someone just saying, "That's a correct analysis of the situation". If I am right about this, what is the harm of running with WotC's pre-4.0 fansite policy until they tell us otherwise?

Edited by - irinotecan on 27 Dec 2010 03:45:06
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13403 Posts

Posted - 28 Dec 2010 :  23:33:35  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, you've gotten the gist of the situation.

The pre-4e 'fansite policy' doesn't exist, AFAIK. It basically amounts to "just ignore them, unless they do something we don't like". To clarify, they RARELY 'went after' anyone, unless they were re-producing copyrighted material, making money off of a Hasbro-owned Intellectual property, or were producing something for the 4e rules set (in other words, using their new, NON-OGL rules to produce new D&D material).

We will never see a fansite policy, simply because it is better for them from a legal standpoint to never create one. Once you lay down the rules, the first thing people do is find ways around them; without ANY rules allowing fans to use their IP, (in any way, shape, or form) they can 'pick & choose their battles'.

Not only do we produce material directly related to their most lucrative IP, but the name of this site is even their property. We exist at their mercy, and without knowing what will 'piss them off', we can do nothing.

Sadly, so it goes.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 28 Dec 2010 23:35:31
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Khelben
Seeker

Denmark
24 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2011 :  19:14:04  Show Profile Send Khelben a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So where can I get the CandleKeep Compendium....? (not hoping for a Power Word Kill...)



-Khelben
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29800 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2011 :  20:12:14  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Khelben

So where can I get the CandleKeep Compendium....? (not hoping for a Power Word Kill...)



-Khelben



Click on the link in my sig.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Khelben
Seeker

Denmark
24 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2011 :  21:26:03  Show Profile Send Khelben a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Click on the link in my sig.



Thx Rupert - it looks great but why did this creative work stop in 2007?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2011 :  05:51:12  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Khelben

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Click on the link in my sig.



Thx Rupert - it looks great but why did this creative work stop in 2007?

Lack of contributions, mostly. Also, several regularly contributing scribes, such as myself, often found ourselves with less and less time to devote to such projects.

Then, finally, with the coming of 4e in 2008 and the restructuring of Wizards' Open Gaming License, it became somewhat precarious for fan sites, such as Candlekeep.com, to continue publishing fan-based sources without an official mandate to utilise such Intellectual Property from the license-holder.

Couple these kinds of problems/issues together, and we're still largely in a kind of limbo about how to proceed with the Compendium.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1073 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2011 :  21:30:25  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Woah! Has it really been four years? I think it's time to get the band back together.

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2011 :  01:44:50  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

Woah! Has it really been four years? I think it's time to get the band back together.

You're not going to start by singing "On The Road Again," are you?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5571 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2011 :  10:53:19  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage  Click to see Alaundo's MSN Messenger address Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well met

Aye, a splendid set of volumes of lore. Work had commenced for Volume X, but as The Sage stated, various reasons halted it's production.

However... I am unlocking the door, blowing off the dust and looking at recommencing this as part of Candlekeep v2. After recent discussions and work picking up again, watch this space...Candlekeep will be changing, mark my words

Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct


An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Thieran
Learned Scribe

Germany
292 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2011 :  11:03:47  Show Profile Send Thieran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Exciting!
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3053 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2011 :  23:01:21  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If so Alaundo, I hope my work still has a place on the shelf.

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1944 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  10:15:55  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
CKCX. It is about time.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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Thelonius
Senior Scribe

Spain
724 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  10:27:39  Show Profile  Click to see Thelonius's MSN Messenger address Send Thelonius a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good those issues might be seither solved, skipped or rounded Looking forward to another Compendium

"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est
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