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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2005 :  13:04:30  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Thayan enclave in Waterdeep isnt a "real" enclave the Thayans have done it on the shonky, Waterdeeps goverment never agreed to the laws regarding Thayan soverienty that all the other host nations have had to sign to get an enclave.

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2005 :  23:48:59  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain
Hi Steven, and thanks for the reply.

Just to add a few speculations of my own :) :
I browsed through Magic of Faerun, FRCS, Lords of Darkness and Unapproachable East this weekend, and unless I have misunderstood something each Thayen Enclave is sponsored by a zulkir. Waterdeep : CoS says nothing about who sponsors the enclave there, and I can't remember seeing anything that "hints" towards any one zulkir in particular. In fact, I found it interesting that the head of the enclave is stated out as "WizardX/Red WizardY", instead of "EnchanterX/Red WizardY" or "Wizard[Ench]X/Red WizardY" :). This might just be an oversight, but I prefer to think of it as "someone didn't tell our trusted reporter, Mr. Boyd, all the details :)".

Anyway, two obvious options (in my mind at least) are that
1) Aznar entered as an apprentice in order to gain knowledge and/or information that he some day might use

2) Khelben took the ambitious thayan as an apprentice, hoping to gain an ally (or at least a "friend") who might some day be a prominent member of the Red Wizards.


Further: Is it possible that Aznar is the sponsor of the Waterdeep Enclave, and that he has used contacts and knowledge to gain a foothold (so to say) in the City of Splendours?



Possible, sure, but this is getting out of my expertise and a lot more toward the inestimable Mr. Boyd's territory. Eric? Help us out here, buddy?

SES

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2005 :  17:49:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey again, Steven! We've been discussing Manshoon in this thread, and I decided to ask about something I noted there.

In Cloak & Dagger, the timeline lists the vampire clone waking up before it lists the rest of the clones waking up. 'Tis on page 13, under the month of Ches. There's two entries for Ches 6. The first one is the waking of the vampire clone. The second entry for Ches 6 describes the beginning of the Manshoon Wars.

Now, as I pointed out in that other thread, this could be meaningless. But it also could mean that something caused the vampire to become active before the stasis clone spell was triggered...

So, am I on to something here, or am I reading too much into it?

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 10 Aug 2005 17:50:13
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2005 :  19:16:03  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Hey again, Steven! We've been discussing Manshoon in this thread, and I decided to ask about something I noted there.

In Cloak & Dagger, the timeline lists the vampire clone waking up before it lists the rest of the clones waking up. 'Tis on page 13, under the month of Ches. There's two entries for Ches 6. The first one is the waking of the vampire clone. The second entry for Ches 6 describes the beginning of the Manshoon Wars.

Now, as I pointed out in that other thread, this could be meaningless. But it also could mean that something caused the vampire to become active before the stasis clone spell was triggered...

So, am I on to something here, or am I reading too much into it?



"Perhaps," said Khelben. "Sit there and think on it awhile. I'll be back to retreive you before Harvestide..."

Bear in mind that the two entries for Ches 6 COULD be simultaneous; it's just that Orthak ties into more plots than the rest of the clones, so he got singled out. Therefore, depending on how you want to read that, it's either part of the larger event or a separate event in and of itself.

The EXACT cause of the Manshoon Wars, IMO, should remain up to GMs. I've left scattered hints aplenty on at least three or four different causes. And ALL of them are more than happy to lay claim to doing so for political reasons.

So, yes, there's a clue in the Orthak lore, you're right Wooly. Precisely what the clue points to is up to all ye individual GMs to parse out and decide for yourselves.

After all, isn't that the fun of it all?

SES

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2005 :  17:39:45  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another question, Steven... Does Khelben in Waterdeep keep in touch with Khelben in Greyhawk?

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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2005 :  21:18:01  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Another question, Steven... Does Khelben in Waterdeep keep in touch with Khelben in Greyhawk?



Not as such, no. The Ravencloak was last hinted at wandering the planes for a time, and he's only in his 50s so he may yet be awhile....

He does keep his ear to the ground about him and would lend aid if the situation warranted it (and he had the time).

Steven

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2005 :  03:51:02  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Another question, Steven... Does Khelben in Waterdeep keep in touch with Khelben in Greyhawk?



Not as such, no. The Ravencloak was last hinted at wandering the planes for a time, and he's only in his 50s so he may yet be awhile....
And have plenty to talk about I'm sure .

Steven, do you know anything about this claim that Ravenscloak once visited Krynn during that world's 4th Age? I've never discovered anything "official" on this, but I was curious as to what you might know of it.

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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2005 :  13:22:43  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Another question, Steven... Does Khelben in Waterdeep keep in touch with Khelben in Greyhawk?



Not as such, no. The Ravencloak was last hinted at wandering the planes for a time, and he's only in his 50s so he may yet be awhile....
And have plenty to talk about I'm sure .

Steven, do you know anything about this claim that Ravenscloak once visited Krynn during that world's 4th Age? I've never discovered anything "official" on this, but I was curious as to what you might know of it.




A fine rumor and certainly possible in anyone's home campaign. As it is, the only thing canonical about the Ravencloak is that he is the son of Zelphar and Lhestyn and he's not around any more. I can't recall what's been said "officially" and as he's Eric's character, I should refrain from saying much more. Who knows? Let's get the Boyd in here to discuss.....

SES

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2005 :  16:29:24  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Working away on the revisions for BLACKSTAFF....and figured I'd drop a query here....

As I'm tinkering and adjusting who really needs to be in the book, chime in here and tell me:

Who among the related NPCs linked to Khelben do you most want to see/expect to see in that story? (Bear in mind this excludes the obvious ones of his wife and probably her fellow Chosen. I was wondering if you all expected a parade of ex-apprentices or new people...)

You're going to find out a lot more about Blackstaff Tower. Just what do you need to know that you don't already? And do you expect a full accounting of all apprentices currently therein?

Just figured I'd ask those with some expectations about this book, if only so I can try and fulfill them.....

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1273 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2005 :  17:36:17  Show Profile Send Skeptic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe Carolyas Idogir of the Grey Hands(Force Grey) ?

I would like more info about "how things works" for apprentices over there, aside from scrying all the "Lord's" agents in the city, what are they doing on a day-to-day basis, etc..

Edited by - Skeptic on 21 Aug 2005 17:52:24
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2005 :  17:41:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Malchor Harpell, Piergeiron Paladinson, Mirt the Moneylender... Maybe Maaril and/or Maskar Wands.

And of course Kyri and some of the Moonstars. Maybe even Alathene Moonstar...

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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2005 :  18:29:59  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
I would like more info about "how things works" for apprentices over there, aside from scrying all the "Lord's" agents in the city, what are they doing on a day-to-day basis, etc..



Agrees with this! Some new and old apprentices and the day to day actives of apprentices. Now that I think about it, that's one of the many holes in lore.... What do apprentices do every day besides cast spells and same with divine casters and clergy. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2005 :  02:48:18  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Malchor Harpell, Piergeiron Paladinson, Mirt the Moneylender... Maybe Maaril and/or Maskar Wands.

And of course Kyri and some of the Moonstars. Maybe even Alathene Moonstar...

Echoes this...

I'd like some extra focus on Mirt. Kyri's always intriguing and deserves further development.

The Moonstars need to have some degree of attention within the overall work. I'd like to hear a little about what a typical day for a member of the Moonstars would be like actually... since we already know how the Harpers generally run their own operations.

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Lord Rad
Great Reader

United Kingdom
2080 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2005 :  10:21:23  Show Profile  Visit Lord Rad's Homepage  Click to see Lord Rad's MSN Messenger address Send Lord Rad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Stephen

Just following on from your post to Thomas Reid regarding his upcoming trilogy for Khaanyr Vhok and Aliiza. How did you feel the WotSQ authors handled the characters in their books? Were you quite happy with how they were presented? Is there anything you would have changed or anything further you would have liked to have seen from the characters?

By the way, what state is Hellgate Keep currently in? Has there been any further developments since the big boom?

Lord Rad

"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2005 :  13:50:12  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad

Stephen

Just following on from your post to Thomas Reid regarding his upcoming trilogy for Khaanyr Vhok and Aliiza. How did you feel the WotSQ authors handled the characters in their books? Were you quite happy with how they were presented? Is there anything you would have changed or anything further you would have liked to have seen from the characters?

By the way, what state is Hellgate Keep currently in? Has there been any further developments since the big boom?



Haven't read the WotSQ books yet (only have the first two and they're stuck in storage 2000 miles away from me) so I can't comment on any of that. I'll trust that the authors involved treated them appropriately. I was just teasing Thomas, that's all. And yes, eventually, I'll get around to reading WotSQ one o' these days.....

I haven't given that much thought to Hellgate Dell in a few years, but since Turlang's Tree Delivery Service isn't nearly as fast as they think they are, it probably is relatively the same status I left it in back in 1996....though I could be wrong. Haven't reread the FRCS in a while....

If it were up to me (and be sure that it ain't), Turlang and a few others who learned of the surviving terrors/dangers in the keep might make some changes.
* Working with the Mistmaster and other Tel'teukiira to clear out any possible things to be gained (like reclaiming some old artifacts)
* Either collapsing more rock into the chasm and/or filling the ruins with water via some help from Eldathan priests or others to flood the chambers beneath the Keep (and yes, they'd plan this out by collapsing many tunnels found beneath the keep).
* Cover the slopes and surrounding areas with brambles, holly, and other plants more hassle and pain than are worth forging through (if not full trees and treants to slow any entrants).
* Yes, they're butting heads with Everlund, as they're thinking long-term, which rarely takes into account generations (let alone single lifespans) of humanity who happen to be in the way....

That help?

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2005 :  13:54:15  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Malchor Harpell, Piergeiron Paladinson, Mirt the Moneylender... Maybe Maaril and/or Maskar Wands.

And of course Kyri and some of the Moonstars. Maybe even Alathene Moonstar...

Echoes this...

I'd like some extra focus on Mirt. Kyri's always intriguing and deserves further development.

The Moonstars need to have some degree of attention within the overall work. I'd like to hear a little about what a typical day for a member of the Moonstars would be like actually... since we already know how the Harpers generally run their own operations.



I'll confess there's no action amongst the Lords within BLACKSTAFF, as the plot never led me to them. Maybe another time.....

Now the Silverstars, on the other hand........

SES
PS: Life as a Tel'Teukiira is hardly different from being a Harper other than you know exactly from whom you're getting your marching orders, and no, you don't have as much autonomy to make your own decisions. Khelben's (or one of the 12 seniors) already made those choices for you and needs you to act out your part of the puzzle.

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2005 :  15:18:41  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

Maybe another time.....
Here's hoping then... .

quote:
Now the Silverstars, on the other hand........

SES
PS: Life as a Tel'Teukiira is hardly different from being a Harper other than you know exactly from whom you're getting your marching orders, and no, you don't have as much autonomy to make your own decisions. Khelben's (or one of the 12 seniors) already made those choices for you and needs you to act out your part of the puzzle.
Woe to those who willingly choose to disregard the orders of the Blackstaff!



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Edited by - The Sage on 24 Aug 2005 15:19:48
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jklang
Acolyte

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2005 :  19:33:22  Show Profile  Visit jklang's Homepage  Send jklang an AOL message  Send jklang an ICQ Message Send jklang a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

Working away on the revisions for BLACKSTAFF....and figured I'd drop a query here....

As I'm tinkering and adjusting who really needs to be in the book, chime in here and tell me:

Who among the related NPCs linked to Khelben do you most want to see/expect to see in that story? (Bear in mind this excludes the obvious ones of his wife and probably her fellow Chosen. I was wondering if you all expected a parade of ex-apprentices or new people...)

You're going to find out a lot more about Blackstaff Tower. Just what do you need to know that you don't already? And do you expect a full accounting of all apprentices currently therein?

Just figured I'd ask those with some expectations about this book, if only so I can try and fulfill them.....



Me, I know I am hoping for maybe some interaction with his nephew Giogi Wyvernspur. These were great charcter's that seemed to disappear after the Wyvernspur trilogy.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2005 :  23:32:55  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jklang

Me, I know I am hoping for maybe some interaction with his nephew Giogi Wyvernspur. These were great charcter's that seemed to disappear after the Wyvernspur trilogy.



Giogi and Cat Wyvernspur appear again in the Cormyr trilogy. We also see more members of the Wyvernspur family in Tymora's Luck, the last book of the Lost Gods trilogy.

Now... Perhaps I'm suffering from a brainfart, here, because I wasn't aware of any ties between Khelben and the Wyvernspurs. Where is this familial relation mentioned?

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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2005 :  23:48:44  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertNow... Perhaps I'm suffering from a brainfart, here, because I wasn't aware of any ties between Khelben and the Wyvernspurs. Where is this familial relation mentioned?



Was wondering this as well and that family is one of my fav families because of the Alias clones and all. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2005 :  02:08:28  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertNow... Perhaps I'm suffering from a brainfart, here, because I wasn't aware of any ties between Khelben and the Wyvernspurs. Where is this familial relation mentioned?



Was wondering this as well and that family is one of my fav families because of the Alias clones and all. :)

There is a relation?

Please Steven, enlighten us...

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2005 :  02:44:52  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Now... Perhaps I'm suffering from a brainfart, here, because I wasn't aware of any ties between Khelben and the Wyvernspurs. Where is this familial relation mentioned?



Was wondering this as well and that family is one of my fav families because of the Alias clones and all. :)



I've never made any secret of the fact that I love the idea of the Alias clones.

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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2238 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2005 :  22:05:11  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Could it be that jklang is confusing Giogi Wyvernspur with Danilo Thann? There are certain similarities, and I've seen this particular brain blip occur before.

::shrugs:: Just a thought.
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2005 :  23:22:03  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Could it be that jklang is confusing Giogi Wyvernspur with Danilo Thann? There are certain similarities, and I've seen this particular brain blip occur before.

::shrugs:: Just a thought.



Ah, that makes most sense. :) I think you might be right.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2005 :  00:45:52  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertNow... Perhaps I'm suffering from a brainfart, here, because I wasn't aware of any ties between Khelben and the Wyvernspurs. Where is this familial relation mentioned?



Was wondering this as well and that family is one of my fav families because of the Alias clones and all. :)

There is a relation?

Please Steven, enlighten us...




As much as Giogi and Alias are among my favorites of Jeff's & Kate's creations, there's no relation between Khelben Arunsun (by any name, alias, or guise) and either of those characters.

By the by, THE WYVERN'S SPUR is my favorite of the Grubb/Novak books....but my favorite character created by Jeff is Foxilon Cardluck, bon vivant, cardshark, and all-around-devil-may-care halfling thief extraordinaire.

As to Khelben's relationship with his "nephew"/great-grandson, that's a question better put to Elaine....but thanks for reminding me. HEY ELAINE! You and I need to talk some time this weekend, if you've a moment! Have a few questions for this BLACKSTAFF revision I'm doing....

Steven
Who's a real stinker for doing that just to stir the rumors pot...

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