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Lhynard
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2020 :  22:20:42  Show Profile  Visit Lhynard's Homepage Send Lhynard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There seems to be a lore conflict in Empires of the Shining Sea regarding who rules the city of Schamedar in 1370 DR.

After the Living Gem War ends in 1368, the syl-pasha is said to have established the victorious Seven Satraps as the rulers, and p. 39 gives three of their names and claims that they serve El Kahmir. The text claims that they "now" rule in 1370 DR.

However, the section actually detailing Schamedar on p. 116 claims that the Syl-Vizar in 1370 DR is an elf named Vatarn Wahrim and that he was chosen by the people a few tendays after the Council of Vizars disappeared. He selects a new Council, and the name of one additional Council member is given.

The original council disappeared as a result of Shond Tharovin in 1367. The only way that I can reconcile this conflict is if I ignore the "now" on p. 39 and assume that the disappeared Council in the Schamedar description on p. 116 refers not to those killed or exiled by Shond but rather to the Seven Satraps.

In other words, did Schend intend for the first Council to be removed by Shond in 1367, to be replaced by the Seven Satraps in 1368, and then to be replaced in 1370 again by a new council? Or was this a mistake on his part in forgetting who he claimed was in charge between the two sections of the book?

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6330 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2020 :  13:04:38  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, I think the "now" is the problem here. Clearly the Seven Satraps rule from 1368 DR but disappear (for whatever reason) in 1370 DR allowing Vatarn to take control. At least that's how I would read it to mean.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Lhynard
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2020 :  01:24:25  Show Profile  Visit Lhynard's Homepage Send Lhynard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Yes, I think the "now" is the problem here. Clearly the Seven Satraps rule from 1368 DR but disappear (for whatever reason) in 1370 DR allowing Vatarn to take control. At least that's how I would read it to mean.

-- George Krashos



thanks for the reply!
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Lhynard
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2020 :  20:58:22  Show Profile  Visit Lhynard's Homepage Send Lhynard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yet another family tree question for Schend (likely to be answered by Krashos ).

I built this detailed family tree of Clan Ithal of Tethyr today:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ithal

My question is about one missing queen.

Page 24 of the "Erlkazar & Folk of Intrigue" booklet from the Lands of Intrigue boxed set states that the lich Priamon has the "1,530-year-old bridal crown of Queen Arial of the Ithal Dynasty." The boxed set is set in 1370 DR, so this means that the crown was from around −160. This means that it was made during the reign of King Silvam. However, Silvam's queen was Alcina. This means that it must have been the bridal crown of one of the following kings. (Perhaps it was one of Alcina's crowns given to the new queen as a gift?)

In any case, whose bride was Arial? It would have to be Nishan or Garynor, because Garynor II never reigned, and Nishan II married Arhymeria, and then the dynasty fell.

Edited by - Lhynard on 09 May 2020 21:00:18
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1663 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2020 :  20:32:00  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur

Not sure if Steven still checks in but I'll leave this question here because I'm pretty sure it is related to his work on Blackstaff Tower.

When the Spellplague merged Nameless and Raergar into Nameless Haunt where was the location that this happened? All I seem to find is that it was on the east side of Mount Waterdeep and that it left a cat head shaped mark on the cobbles there. I'm guessing it would likely be "near" Blackstaff Tower. Using the old Waterdeep City of Splendors Map from TSR1109 I can see there aren't that many cobbled location near the Mount Waterdeep. Maybe Fetlock Court or Turnback Court?

Well if anyone can answer would be great, thinking of using the location as part of a quest.



That was meant to put a new landmark/place of interest somewhere on the expanded and changed Mount Waterdeep that had a whole other neighborhood up thereabouts. I've never gotten around to checking 4E sources (or 5E sources for that matter) as to where and how they shifted things when they messed up the City.

In any case, placing it around/near Turnback Court works well, ayup.

Steven the very late

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1663 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2020 :  20:38:42  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lhynard

Yet another family tree question for Schend (likely to be answered by Krashos ).

I built this detailed family tree of Clan Ithal of Tethyr today:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ithal

My question is about one missing queen.

Page 24 of the "Erlkazar & Folk of Intrigue" booklet from the Lands of Intrigue boxed set states that the lich Priamon has the "1,530-year-old bridal crown of Queen Arial of the Ithal Dynasty." The boxed set is set in 1370 DR, so this means that the crown was from around #8722;160. This means that it was made during the reign of King Silvam. However, Silvam's queen was Alcina. This means that it must have been the bridal crown of one of the following kings. (Perhaps it was one of Alcina's crowns given to the new queen as a gift?)

In any case, whose bride was Arial? It would have to be Nishan or Garynor, because Garynor II never reigned, and Nishan II married Arhymeria, and then the dynasty fell.



Unless George found another timeline snafu, I'd say that Arial was Nishan's bride and mother to twins Garynor and Rhynda. It would have easily been forged/crafted during Silvam's reign as Arial and Nishan married before ascending to the throne (and the crown is only referred to as Queen Arial's crown because of her most famous title/role).

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4614 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2020 :  21:38:40  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This sounds like sense. A bridal crown certainly could be given before becoming Queen. It is hard to be born a Queen after all. Most cases one inherits from someone living at the time after they are born. Sometimes years or decades pass before an heir becomes ruler (or even titled).
There could be examples of being born King or Queen though. Depending on treaties and laws of realms.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6330 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2020 :  01:17:46  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:
Originally posted by Lhynard

Yet another family tree question for Schend (likely to be answered by Krashos ).

I built this detailed family tree of Clan Ithal of Tethyr today:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ithal

My question is about one missing queen.

Page 24 of the "Erlkazar & Folk of Intrigue" booklet from the Lands of Intrigue boxed set states that the lich Priamon has the "1,530-year-old bridal crown of Queen Arial of the Ithal Dynasty." The boxed set is set in 1370 DR, so this means that the crown was from around #8722;160. This means that it was made during the reign of King Silvam. However, Silvam's queen was Alcina. This means that it must have been the bridal crown of one of the following kings. (Perhaps it was one of Alcina's crowns given to the new queen as a gift?)

In any case, whose bride was Arial? It would have to be Nishan or Garynor, because Garynor II never reigned, and Nishan II married Arhymeria, and then the dynasty fell.



Unless George found another timeline snafu, I'd say that Arial was Nishan's bride and mother to twins Garynor and Rhynda. It would have easily been forged/crafted during Silvam's reign as Arial and Nishan married before ascending to the throne (and the crown is only referred to as Queen Arial's crown because of her most famous title/role).

Steven



Ahh Steven, you've still got it. Your Clan Ithal notes confirm that she was indeed Nishan's bride and originally from Clan Fyrson. As always, I bow to your superior Realms-fu.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Lhynard
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2020 :  02:11:08  Show Profile  Visit Lhynard's Homepage Send Lhynard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:
Originally posted by Lhynard

Yet another family tree question for Schend (likely to be answered by Krashos ).

I built this detailed family tree of Clan Ithal of Tethyr today:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ithal

My question is about one missing queen.

Page 24 of the "Erlkazar & Folk of Intrigue" booklet from the Lands of Intrigue boxed set states that the lich Priamon has the "1,530-year-old bridal crown of Queen Arial of the Ithal Dynasty." The boxed set is set in 1370 DR, so this means that the crown was from around #8722;160. This means that it was made during the reign of King Silvam. However, Silvam's queen was Alcina. This means that it must have been the bridal crown of one of the following kings. (Perhaps it was one of Alcina's crowns given to the new queen as a gift?)

In any case, whose bride was Arial? It would have to be Nishan or Garynor, because Garynor II never reigned, and Nishan II married Arhymeria, and then the dynasty fell.



Unless George found another timeline snafu, I'd say that Arial was Nishan's bride and mother to twins Garynor and Rhynda. It would have easily been forged/crafted during Silvam's reign as Arial and Nishan married before ascending to the throne (and the crown is only referred to as Queen Arial's crown because of her most famous title/role).

Steven



Ahh Steven, you've still got it. Your Clan Ithal notes confirm that she was indeed Nishan's bride and originally from Clan Fyrson. As always, I bow to your superior Realms-fu.

-- George Krashos



Thanks, both! I am super excited that my guesses were correct. And you also gave me an extra bonus by giving me her clan. I am writing what wiki articles I can for all of those too.

I'm sure I'll have lots more questions as I continue to try to milk out all the details of the First Age of Tethyr as I can. It is so sad that all of this information did not make it into the sourcebooks.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5846 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2020 :  07:09:40  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Steven,

Just came across the Myth of Four Rivers in Empires of the Shining Sea and wanted to know your thoughts (if you can remember them) when creating that piece.

Is it a deliberately corrupted tale (ie the faithful of achanatyr twisted an existing myth or parable type tale and made it about the Dark Three plus one as an insult to show that the damage they inflicted in their quest for power failed to break calimshan (the people or nation).

I get the feeling that the original myth was about genies (could be calim, the ferret lord and ajhuu or it could be a number of other genies) that warred with one another or warred with some greater evil in the mountains and broke that mountain and led to the flooding of the spider swamp.


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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1663 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2020 :  17:31:17  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Hi Steven,

Just came across the Myth of Four Rivers in Empires of the Shining Sea and wanted to know your thoughts (if you can remember them) when creating that piece.

Is it a deliberately corrupted tale (ie the faithful of achanatyr twisted an existing myth or parable type tale and made it about the Dark Three plus one as an insult to show that the damage they inflicted in their quest for power failed to break calimshan (the people or nation).

I get the feeling that the original myth was about genies (could be calim, the ferret lord and ajhuu or it could be a number of other genies) that warred with one another or warred with some greater evil in the mountains and broke that mountain and led to the flooding of the spider swamp.





I'd say it's a very safe bet that the church of Achanatyr definitely spun things to their benefit and the detriment of their enemies (as do most politicians, clergy, and any group with influence seeking to retain their power).

As its sole surviving copy has long been held by the church of Bane, I'd seriously doubt any of its alleged truths as presented by them. Treat it as Banite apocrypha if anything, given the lengths to which they've hidden it.

That said, the myth probably had local folktale variants of it attributed to the genies after that fact (rather than the other way around you suggest). Remember that it's stated that the myth predated the genies' arrival in what would become Calimshan. So it could have variant forms among the native goblin tribes as well as other sapients.

SES


For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5846 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2020 :  19:05:00  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting, i was going to ask what would predate the genies in Calimshan but it would appear you have answered it at least in part. Goblinoids, and of course elves.

Ta muchly. I will have to investigate everything Calimshan and see what i can find that could tie it all together.

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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe

Belgium
271 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2020 :  21:57:06  Show Profile Send Duneth Despana a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi,
I'm struggling a little to situate where Stornanter would have been. Thank you in advance.

« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6330 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2020 :  23:04:55  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana

Hi,
I'm struggling a little to situate where Stornanter would have been. Thank you in advance.



It's location is described in the Seven Sisters accessory as being "around Luskan", nut it stretched down the coast and actually had Port Llast as its capital.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 10 Dec 2020 23:21:06
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1663 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2021 :  15:31:42  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just curious, as the question popped up over on Twitter, but would anyone be interested enough in more undersea setting info from me? Thinking I could expand the shalarin and other things within the western seas and perhaps even spice up things around Maztica if there'd be interest...

SES
who's peeking in every so often but trying to keep to paying work at present

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5846 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2021 :  15:49:31  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Always interested in more lore from the lore masters. I'm a big fan of the shalarin, itd be nice to get more stuff kn their origins.

Interestingly enough Eric was asking for all known locations in the trackless sea and sea of swords etc. In case you wanted to do a super powered team up.

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Asharak
Learned Scribe

France
228 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2021 :  17:29:48  Show Profile  Visit Asharak's Homepage Send Asharak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very interested...

"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"

Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10979 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2021 :  20:06:06  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

Just curious, as the question popped up over on Twitter, but would anyone be interested enough in more undersea setting info from me? Thinking I could expand the shalarin and other things within the western seas and perhaps even spice up things around Maztica if there'd be interest...

SES
who's peeking in every so often but trying to keep to paying work at present



Yeah, I'd love to see some stuff on the place where the Shalarin came from (besides the stuff that was put in a dragon article). I'd actually really like to see WHERE it's located at least in general. Seethyr and I had been talking about some of that (him more than me), and possibly including the nawidnehr (a sharkwere) and Anguilians from Sea Devils near Anchorome. He implemented some of it in his MZA6 Voyage to the True World on DM's Guild, which was a ship based adventure going from Faerun to Maztica.

We had also been talking about having a land connection between Lopango and Katashaka that may have sank, but its people "saved" by being transformed by the gods (translation, Phillip wanted some octopus bottomed merfolk in the ocean between the two continents).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1663 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2021 :  21:06:30  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
An FYI for folks…

https://steveneschend.com/2021/07/29/rhymanthiin-redux-introduction/

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5846 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2021 :  21:45:16  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll be keeping a close watch on your site from now on. I bet there are all kind of secrets to discover. I particularly liked how you showcased people reusing old magic items from ancient past (most without realising it) so I look forward to more magical secrets

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35683 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2021 :  02:25:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

An FYI for folks…

https://steveneschend.com/2021/07/29/rhymanthiin-redux-introduction/



Ooh, I'm looking forward to this! It's a damn shame that Rhymanthiin got ignored by WotC.

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Kyrene
Senior Scribe

South Africa
695 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2021 :  17:23:14  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Steven,

I presume the terms in Calimport like "drudach" or "sabban" are the Alzhedo words used to describe the terms, can you confirm? Also, two words that have been bugging me since 2010 (seeing them in a 2005 So saith Ed) are "yshah" and "ynamalik." The FR wiki lists them as Alzhedo words meaning "duke" and "lesser" prince" citing Empires of the Shining Sea as the source. Is this correct?

Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1663 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2021 :  22:21:31  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene

Hi Steven,

I presume the terms in Calimport like "drudach" or "sabban" are the Alzhedo words used to describe the terms, can you confirm? Also, two words that have been bugging me since 2010 (seeing them in a 2005 So saith Ed) are "yshah" and "ynamalik." The FR wiki lists them as Alzhedo words meaning "duke" and "lesser" prince" citing Empires of the Shining Sea as the source. Is this correct?



Correct on all counts; they're Alzhedo words but some of the words have become standard nomenclature across all the Lands of Intrigue, the Shining Sea lands, and many places where Calmishan held sway (or at least had vested economic influence) once upon a time.

And those titles are both Alzhedo but the words translate mildly differently but the relative rank of said titles holds true and is a better definition/belwether for folks more used to Western European titles.

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com

Edited by - Steven Schend on 30 Jul 2021 22:23:07
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1663 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2021 :  22:24:28  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I'll be keeping a close watch on your site from now on. I bet there are all kind of secrets to discover. I particularly liked how you showcased people reusing old magic items from ancient past (most without realising it) so I look forward to more magical secrets



Maybe I'm just dense, but which showcase do you refer to here? The climax of BLACKSTAFF with folks wielding ancient elven or other artifacts and relics without full knowledge?

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1663 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2021 :  22:27:30  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

An FYI for folks…

https://steveneschend.com/2021/07/29/rhymanthiin-redux-introduction/



Ooh, I'm looking forward to this! It's a damn shame that Rhymanthiin got ignored by WotC.



Yes and no. Sad the plots and potentials fell by the wayside, sure, that's a shame.

However, that leaves me lots of wiggle room in which to develop and build Rhymanthiin without as much interference, which I like very much.

Steven
who hopes to maintain a pace of at least one post/article a week minimum to get his writing mojo revived more regularly…and then collecting and curating all the info into something saleable…

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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