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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2005 :  19:50:26  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well met, Sir Schend, and fellow scribes:

I was in the market for some lore on the fall of Ascalhorn (Hellgate Keep), and I thought I'd consult the mind behind much of the info on it -- the indomitable SS. Also, other scribes' input would be more than welcome, of course!

I'm looking for details on the process of Hellgate's fall -- specifically, when precisely it occurred, what kind of battles (spell and/or mundane) were fought, the spells used to raise it. What kind of monsters were within? Which Chosen were involved? Which organizations? How many casualties? What did the Keep LOOK like before and after?

Any details would be superlative.

Also, if someone would like to point me toward a source of additional info on the subject, that would be cool too!

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1253 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2005 :  20:42:15  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain

Greetings, Loremaster Schend.

I acquired Mr. Boyd's latest work on Waterdeep a tiny tenday ago, and I noticed something that I found a bit odd. In the section that details Khelben, Laeral, and their little "magic school" a list of apprentices were given, and one of these apprentices were a gentleman named Aznar Thrul.

I was wondering if you could perhaps provide some insight into how a man of thayan ancestry came under the Blackstaff's wing/cloak, and what made him leave (in order to later become the charming Zulkir of Thay that we all love and odore :) ).




This is a buried reference to an adventure hook I included in Powers & Pantheons, pages 152-153. This in turn builds off Steven's Dragon article on Series Magic a long time ago (in the first half of the 200s, IIRC, don't have the reference handy).

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2005 :  20:42:43  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Erik, not to be confused with Eric, have you checked out 2e's Hellgate Keep? :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium

Edited by - Kuje on 02 Aug 2005 20:43:37
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2005 :  23:06:56  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain

Greetings, Loremaster Schend.

I acquired Mr. Boyd's latest work on Waterdeep a tiny tenday ago, and I noticed something that I found a bit odd. In the section that details Khelben, Laeral, and their little "magic school" a list of apprentices were given, and one of these apprentices were a gentleman named Aznar Thrul.

I was wondering if you could perhaps provide some insight into how a man of thayan ancestry came under the Blackstaff's wing/cloak, and what made him leave (in order to later become the charming Zulkir of Thay that we all love and odore :) ).




This is a buried reference to an adventure hook I included in Powers & Pantheons, pages 152-153. This in turn builds off Steven's Dragon article on Series Magic a long time ago (in the first half of the 200s, IIRC, don't have the reference handy).

--Eric



"Series Magic" appears in issue 213.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4854 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  07:52:41  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

Erik, not to be confused with Eric, have you checked out 2e's Hellgate Keep? :)



Or "The North" boxed set?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Arthedain
Seeker

16 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  15:03:37  Show Profile  Visit Arthedain's Homepage Send Arthedain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain

Greetings, Loremaster Schend.

I acquired Mr. Boyd's latest work on Waterdeep a tiny tenday ago, and I noticed something that I found a bit odd. In the section that details Khelben, Laeral, and their little "magic school" a list of apprentices were given, and one of these apprentices were a gentleman named Aznar Thrul.

I was wondering if you could perhaps provide some insight into how a man of thayan ancestry came under the Blackstaff's wing/cloak, and what made him leave (in order to later become the charming Zulkir of Thay that we all love and odore :) ).




This is a buried reference to an adventure hook I included in Powers & Pantheons, pages 152-153. This in turn builds off Steven's Dragon article on Series Magic a long time ago (in the first half of the 200s, IIRC, don't have the reference handy).

--Eric



"Series Magic" appears in issue 213.



Aha! Thank you, Eric and Wooly. Unfortunately, Dragon 213 is not in my library, but Powers & Pantheons is. One can't have everything, I suppose :).
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  17:51:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain


Aha! Thank you, Eric and Wooly. Unfortunately, Dragon 213 is not in my library, but Powers & Pantheons is. One can't have everything, I suppose :).



I'm going to have to check the Powers & Pantheons reference, myself. I just read the "Series Magic" article (I long ago flipped that one to Word, and copied it to my work machine), and I'm not seeing what was built on.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  01:27:35  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
See? The depths of knowledge of these scribes. I'll look for those.

My previous experience with supplements is that they often go a little loose on the details, so DMs can do their thing. . . What I'd really like as well is supplementary info.

UPDATE: I've got the North, and the Savage Frontier, but this mysterious 2E Hellgate Keep yet eludes me. Anyone know where a download might be found?

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)

Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 04 Aug 2005 06:26:20
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  06:34:14  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

See? The depths of knowledge of these scribes. I'll look for those.

My previous experience with supplements is that they often go a little loose on the details, so DMs can do their thing. . . What I'd really like as well is supplementary info.

UPDATE: I've got the North, and the Savage Frontier, but this mysterious 2E Hellgate Keep yet eludes me. Anyone know where a download might be found?

Cheers



Hellsgate keep is a 2ed module

You can buy a PDF version from here

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=883&

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks

Edited by - Dargoth on 04 Aug 2005 06:36:48
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  13:44:54  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

See? The depths of knowledge of these scribes. I'll look for those.

My previous experience with supplements is that they often go a little loose on the details, so DMs can do their thing. . . What I'd really like as well is supplementary info.

UPDATE: I've got the North, and the Savage Frontier, but this mysterious 2E Hellgate Keep yet eludes me. Anyone know where a download might be found?

Cheers



Loose on details? Us?

Send me an email on this, Erik. I think I can help you out by digging up the files. Just include exactly what info you're trying to dig up and I'll see what I put in print (and what I left in the cobwebbed corners of hard drives in note form).

SES

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  13:46:48  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain

Greetings, Loremaster Schend.

I acquired Mr. Boyd's latest work on Waterdeep a tiny tenday ago, and I noticed something that I found a bit odd. In the section that details Khelben, Laeral, and their little "magic school" a list of apprentices were given, and one of these apprentices were a gentleman named Aznar Thrul.

I was wondering if you could perhaps provide some insight into how a man of thayan ancestry came under the Blackstaff's wing/cloak, and what made him leave (in order to later become the charming Zulkir of Thay that we all love and odore :) ).

I would also like to say "thank you" for providing sourcebooks filled with lore and plot hooks. In my current campaign set in the Dalelands (3+ years and still kicking) I keep returning to your books on Cormanthyr and the Fall of Myth Drannor for inspiration and ideas on all things elven.

Many thanks in advance.



I'll have to do a check on Aznar Thrul in my files; could be that all the thought that went into him went into that article in Dragon 213 and I've not given it a thought since. This could change, though, when I find and reread that old article....

Steven
Who was reminded of that article last when he wrote SEA OF FALLEN STARS to use one of the five Blades of Ochiir Naal....

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  17:18:16  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

I'll have to do a check on Aznar Thrul in my files; could be that all the thought that went into him went into that article in Dragon 213 and I've not given it a thought since. This could change, though, when I find and reread that old article....

Steven
Who was reminded of that article last when he wrote SEA OF FALLEN STARS to use one of the five Blades of Ochiir Naal....



I have it as a Word document... If you need it, I'll email it to you.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  18:09:50  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

I'll have to do a check on Aznar Thrul in my files; could be that all the thought that went into him went into that article in Dragon 213 and I've not given it a thought since. This could change, though, when I find and reread that old article....

Steven
Who was reminded of that article last when he wrote SEA OF FALLEN STARS to use one of the five Blades of Ochiir Naal....



I have it as a Word document... If you need it, I'll email it to you.



Do that, would you please? Thanks, man.

Steven
Who's apparently wool-gathering....

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5579 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  21:53:52  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage  Click to see Alaundo's MSN Messenger address Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

<snip>..Who's apparently wool-gathering....



Ahem, apologies Wooly, I just find that so..tzzpfffff

Indeed, i'd also like to see this document ye have, if ye would be kind enough to send it over to me. Thank ye.


Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  02:08:25  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

Loose on details? Us?



I said "loose," but I meant "open," so that DMs can run adventures at particularly important events and. . . well, you know what I meant.

Will do.

Anyone know if a short story, Dragon article, or other published work covers the last hurrah of Hellgate?

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)

Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 05 Aug 2005 02:11:29
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4854 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  03:22:09  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's no other information on the fall of Hellgate Keep other than the sources noted above. No fiction at all on this event.

There is a small reference to the fall of Ascalhorn (when this place BECAME Hellgate Keep) in the old FR4 The Magister accessory. In the write-up of Jaluster's Orizen it talks about how he fought and died there and mentions one of the few survivors of that event back in 882 DR, the bard Maerstar.

Similarly, look at Eric's "Mintiper's Chapbook" series on the WotC FR website (now in the archives) for some lore on Hellgate Keep, specifically the Brotherhood of the Black Hand offering.

Oh, and you might want to read up on the Gatekeeper's Crystal artifact in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  03:35:28  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

There's no other information on the fall of Hellgate Keep other than the sources noted above. No fiction at all on this event.

There is a small reference to the fall of Ascalhorn (when this place BECAME Hellgate Keep) in the old FR4 The Magister accessory. In the write-up of Jaluster's Orizen it talks about how he fought and died there and mentions one of the few survivors of that event back in 882 DR, the bard Maerstar.

Similarly, look at Eric's "Mintiper's Chapbook" series on the WotC FR website (now in the archives) for some lore on Hellgate Keep, specifically the Brotherhood of the Black Hand offering.

Oh, and you might want to read up on the Gatekeeper's Crystal artifact in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.

-- George Krashos




Hmm. I dimley recall some info being in Savage Frontier as well..... :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  04:00:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Oh, and you might want to read up on the Gatekeeper's Crystal artifact in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.

-- George Krashos




Which is another freebie on the WotC downloads page.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  05:09:14  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You guys are awesome.

And with that, I shall cede control of Sir Schend's scroll -- back to Sir Schend.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)

Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 05 Aug 2005 05:10:22
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31689 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  05:55:30  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This one's for you Erik -

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Oh, and you might want to read up on the Gatekeeper's Crystal artifact in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.

-- George Krashos




Which is another freebie on the WotC downloads page.

As is Volo's Guide to the North -- another 2e resource brimming with lore on Hellgate Keep.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  13:04:39  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

You guys are awesome.

And with that, I shall cede control of Sir Schend's scroll -- back to Sir Schend.

Cheers



Eugh. Call me Steven. As for control, that's in Alaundo's hands.

Steven
Who wonders if orcs invading places ever roar "All your base belong to us!" or not....

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  13:09:59  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain

Greetings, Loremaster Schend.

I acquired Mr. Boyd's latest work on Waterdeep a tiny tenday ago, and I noticed something that I found a bit odd. In the section that details Khelben, Laeral, and their little "magic school" a list of apprentices were given, and one of these apprentices were a gentleman named Aznar Thrul.

I was wondering if you could perhaps provide some insight into how a man of thayan ancestry came under the Blackstaff's wing/cloak, and what made him leave (in order to later become the charming Zulkir of Thay that we all love and odore :) ).

I would also like to say "thank you" for providing sourcebooks filled with lore and plot hooks. In my current campaign set in the Dalelands (3+ years and still kicking) I keep returning to your books on Cormanthyr and the Fall of Myth Drannor for inspiration and ideas on all things elven.

Many thanks in advance.



Still haven't done the research, but some ideas rattled loose this a.m....

Aznar could have simply shown up on the Tower's doorstep and been accepted simply as a student of potential. While I doubt it was a long-term idea that he'd become a major Red Wizard, Khelben often takes in students from many walks of life in the hopes that they learn as much about morality as they do about magic.

While he's got many successful apprentice/graduates like Malchor Harpell or Nain Keenwhistler, he's also got his "failures"--mages of power who have forgotten some basics on ethics or simply let the power go to their heads. Maaril the Dragonmage is hinted at being one of them, though folk argue on this and Khelben keeps his own counsel.

Alas, while Khelben is an exceptional teacher (when he finds the time), he's not that hot as a parent. In his mind, his greatest failures are his inability to protect his children from harm as his parents protected him through his 20s...

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  17:17:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend


Steven
Who wonders if orcs invading places ever roar "All your base belong to us!" or not....





What you say?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  19:02:18  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Steven it is!

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Arthedain
Seeker

16 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2005 :  12:56:22  Show Profile  Visit Arthedain's Homepage Send Arthedain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain

Greetings, Loremaster Schend.

I acquired Mr. Boyd's latest work on Waterdeep a tiny tenday ago, and I noticed something that I found a bit odd. In the section that details Khelben, Laeral, and their little "magic school" a list of apprentices were given, and one of these apprentices were a gentleman named Aznar Thrul.

I was wondering if you could perhaps provide some insight into how a man of thayan ancestry came under the Blackstaff's wing/cloak, and what made him leave (in order to later become the charming Zulkir of Thay that we all love and odore :) ).

I would also like to say "thank you" for providing sourcebooks filled with lore and plot hooks. In my current campaign set in the Dalelands (3+ years and still kicking) I keep returning to your books on Cormanthyr and the Fall of Myth Drannor for inspiration and ideas on all things elven.

Many thanks in advance.



Still haven't done the research, but some ideas rattled loose this a.m....

Aznar could have simply shown up on the Tower's doorstep and been accepted simply as a student of potential. While I doubt it was a long-term idea that he'd become a major Red Wizard, Khelben often takes in students from many walks of life in the hopes that they learn as much about morality as they do about magic.

While he's got many successful apprentice/graduates like Malchor Harpell or Nain Keenwhistler, he's also got his "failures"--mages of power who have forgotten some basics on ethics or simply let the power go to their heads. Maaril the Dragonmage is hinted at being one of them, though folk argue on this and Khelben keeps his own counsel.

Alas, while Khelben is an exceptional teacher (when he finds the time), he's not that hot as a parent. In his mind, his greatest failures are his inability to protect his children from harm as his parents protected him through his 20s...

Steven



Hi Steven, and thanks for the reply.

Just to add a few speculations of my own :) :
I browsed through Magic of Faerun, FRCS, Lords of Darkness and Unapproachable East this weekend, and unless I have misunderstood something each Thayen Enclave is sponsored by a zulkir. Waterdeep : CoS says nothing about who sponsors the enclave there, and I can't remember seeing anything that "hints" towards any one zulkir in particular. In fact, I found it interesting that the head of the enclave is stated out as "WizardX/Red WizardY", instead of "EnchanterX/Red WizardY" or "Wizard[Ench]X/Red WizardY" :). This might just be an oversight, but I prefer to think of it as "someone didn't tell our trusted reporter, Mr. Boyd, all the details :)".

Anyway, two obvious options (in my mind at least) are that
1) Aznar entered as an apprentice in order to gain knowledge and/or information that he some day might use

2) Khelben took the ambitious thayan as an apprentice, hoping to gain an ally (or at least a "friend") who might some day be a prominent member of the Red Wizards.


Further: Is it possible that Aznar is the sponsor of the Waterdeep Enclave, and that he has used contacts and knowledge to gain a foothold (so to say) in the City of Splendours?


Well, those were some of my initial thoughts on the subject :). And now, as they say on the David Letterman Show....

"Back to you, Dave."

-Arthedain
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