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Palmate
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jan 2005 : 21:25:26
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Greetings learned sages,
I'm looking for any and all existing knowledge on the site in the Upperdark known as Philock, the general location in the Netherese Caverns is the extent of my knowledge...
Palmate
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2005 : 00:42:32
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I believe there is some information in "Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark" and the "Underdark" accessory. Eric Boyd is the man for Philock but given the recent arrival of a future FR Loremaster, he's pretty strapped for time at the moment.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Palmate
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2005 : 15:39:39
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thanks so much George, I will review my sources and see what I can come up with, if nothing else I'll make something up 
Congrats Eric! maybe you could respond to this thread in three or four months
Palmate |
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Murmur Maelstrom
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2005 : 01:30:45
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I, too, am interested in Philock. However, though there is an indicator in the Lost Empires of Faerun that information about the place can be found in Underdark, I cannot find it... Does anyone have a reference point that they could share?
Cheers,
MM |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2005 : 04:46:23
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Re "Underdark", it's on the map and p.185.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 26 Feb 2005 04:47:13 |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2005 : 12:57:36
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I believe the above-mentioned sources (DDGttU, Underdark, and LEoF) are the current set of references to Philock, the Netherese Caverns. There may also be a stray hint in Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast.
Think of them as caverns modified by Netherese refugees in which to form an underground city, a city which is now abandoned.
All manner of legacies (creatures and items) might remain behind, plus whatever creepy crawlies have moved in since.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Palmate
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2005 : 22:59:12
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Thanks again Eric.
Though I did find the reference to Philock in Underdark, I failed to find it in DDGttU, and I certainly didn't see it in LEoF. Any page numbers or directions to these entries?
thanks again for all y'alls help.
Palmate
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 20:57:40
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I believe the above-mentioned sources (DDGttU, Underdark, and LEoF) are the current set of references to Philock, the Netherese Caverns. There may also be a stray hint in Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast.
Think of them as caverns modified by Netherese refugees in which to form an underground city, a city which is now abandoned.
Researching the Greenfields area, I came across Philock and the Netherese caverns... searching Candlekeep for more after scouring through Underdark (map reference only) and Drizzt's Underdark Guide (Sshamath) did turn up the same amount of lore as listed in this thread... With the one potential exception that Eric's comment above seems to hint that the name of the (in DDUGttU) nameless Netherese Middle Underdark could be Philock - one contradiction is that Underdark mentions Philock as an Upperdark site...
btw, the reference in LEoF seems almost to hint at something that did not make the final cut of Underdark...
Oh, and so far haven't encountered anything on the topic in VGttSC... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 04:13:25
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I don't think there is anything about Philock in Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast. I just recently searched through that tome myself a few weeks back looking for information on Philock.
I even tried a search through the PDF version that I purchased. Nothing came up.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 11:56:19
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I don't think there is anything about Philock in Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast. I just recently searched through that tome myself a few weeks back looking for information on Philock.
I even tried a search through the PDF version that I purchased. Nothing came up.
The name Philock doesn't show up until relatively recently. (I think it began in Underdark.) DDGttU does indeed refer to the Netherese caverns ... those are the same thing. I'm away from my books, but there may be references (very brief) in Lost Empires in the discussion of the western Netherese diaspora or Serpent Kingdoms in the history of Najara. I seem to recall listing it in one of those. I think the original DDGttU reference was derived from something obscure ... VGttSC seems likely ... but I'd have to check my original file to figure it out again.
All that said, we know almost nothing about Philock, so that's an area for the DM to develop pretty much unhindered. I will say I had a subterranean version of those southwestern Native American cliff dwellings in mind when I wrote the DDGttU stuff. Of course, they had the magical legacies of Netheril at their disposal ...
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 13:27:23
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Thanks for mentioning SK Eric. I had a feeling that I'd came across Philock somewhere else than the previously mentioned tomes.
While not terribly much, the information in SK (page 111) does confirm that Philock is the name of the subterranean Netherese domain. Given the place in the text, I wonder if there is a link between it disappearing from 'common' knowledge, and Ebenfar; the Shadowking's empire...
Some sinister shadow related menace might be the lurking evil hinted at in the scarce sources on Philock and the Netherese Caverns. I could imagine the Netherese survivors of Netheril attempting to use their magic in order to support the war against the scalykind... maybe they delved to far...
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2005 : 21:08:04
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As part of my running articles in the Candlekeep Compendium (Journal of an Apprentice Scribe) I've started on an entry detailing Phorvar's Gap (see this thread). For that part of the journal, I needed a 'local legend'.
Since Phorvar's Gap is located in the Greenfields and the subject of this topic is located underneath this area... It struck me as a useful background for the origin of the legend.
Rather than starting out with a half-formed legend, I started thinking along the lines of the 'truth' behind the legend. Having taken the liberty at work to start a little brainstorming, I came up with a very rough-cut idea, working in a creature type from the Fiend Folio on the go: the Dark Ones (page 37-39 FF)
Bear with me, as the writing below is somewhat jumping about and only half-formed.
- Legend of the Dark Ones -
Netherese from an enclave closely allied with the Shadovar’s realm (having similar made researches) establish themselves and their gnome servants in a cavern system underneath the woods where now the Greenfields are. Their underground habitat – known today as The Netherese Caverns - and their delving too deep – opening or stumbling across a portal to the Plane of Shadow – over time transformed the humans and gnomes to Dark Ones.
Philock is on the – disputable – border between the Upper and Middle Dark, and the Dark Ones have most competition with trolls and goblinoids in the Upper Dark regions and other more dangerous foes from the Middle Dark and denizens from the Plane of Shadow.
The Dark Ones of Philock very rarely venture above ground, and only then in the middle of the night, when Selûne and the stars are hidden by cloud cover.
The Dark Ones of Philock venerate few deities, Shar (in both her own aspect and the aspect of Ibrandul), Baravar Cloakshadow and Jergal are the most common. Leira used to hold a prominent place of worship, until her sudden silence in the Time of Troubles; her clergy’s activities predominantly taken up by Shar and Baravar.
Not very numerous and surrounded by a hostile environment, the Dark Ones rely primarily on stealth and ambushes. The predominant class among the Dark Ones of Philock is rogues, but there are also several Underdark rangers, sorcerers and a few clerics/adepts of the deities aforementioned. Most magic – arcane and divine – centers around the use of shadow magic and illusion.
The Netherese Caverns are not connected by any know Underdark passages, but has seen a few incursions of other races in the past – explorers from Shanatar on their trek North, drow mercenary bands or exiles. At least one clan of Rock-gnomes inhabits an area bordering the Cloak Wood. Cloakers, Hooked-horrors, Umberhulks are commonly encountered creatures.
Philock is in a barren stretch of the Underdark, but in the area of The Netherese Caverns, the only area large enough to hold the initial population of humans and gnomes. The network of tunnels and caverns around Philock only holds sparse amounts of edible food – mostly in the form of fungi and molds. Closer to the surface several ‘wet’ areas exist, and these would make ideal foraging areas weren’t it for the fact that the other denizens of the Upper dark also use these areas for their food and water.
Basically I'm looking for some feedback from my fellow scriveners and maybe, if there is enough animo, turn it into a small project of creating Realmslore. |
Edited by - Mumadar Ibn Huzal on 31 May 2005 21:11:52 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 02:48:26
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I like the general feel of it so far...
The connection with the Dark Ones is a nice touch though  . Do you intend to differentiate between the two alternate types of Dark Ones? Perhaps the dark stalkers are those who worship Shar and the other deities. The dark creepers can be the rogues.
If you would like to develop this further, I'd be willing to help.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 01 Jun 2005 02:49:43 |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 18:14:40
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I would appreciate your input Sage, and yes, I'd like to develop this further in an open forum type of discussion.
I have not completely worked this out, but I'd thought of adding 1 or 2 more Dark Ones - one an arcane caster like a sorcerer and the second one a divine caster, or alternatively something more along the adept class with access to both arcane and divine.
My initial thoughts on the size difference was to have the dark-creeper as described be predominantly of gnomish racial stock and the stalkers predomiantly of Netherese human stock. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 02:35:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
I have not completely worked this out, but I'd thought of adding 1 or 2 more Dark Ones - one an arcane caster like a sorcerer and the second one a divine caster, or alternatively something more along the adept class with access to both arcane and divine.
My initial thoughts on the size difference was to have the dark-creeper as described be predominantly of gnomish racial stock and the stalkers predomiantly of Netherese human stock.
I rather like that.
Because of their previous arcane influence, I'm assuming you're going to make the arcane caster Dark One a stalker? However, if you intend on going with the sorcerer-angle, then it is likely that either subrace could qualify, but the creeper is hampered by a low CHA. The creeper, I don't think, will work as a divine caster simply because of the general ability scores. The stalker on the other hand, can go either way, with a mid-level WIS and high enough CHA, they suit either a sorcerer or a cleric.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 05:44:40
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| I actually meant adding two more Dark One varieties. Currently there are only the Creeper and the Stalker mentioned under the FF heading Dark Ones. Yet mayhaps there is a Dark Whisperer (divine caster) and a Dark Weaver (arcane caster) that have yet to be detailed... |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 08:59:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
I actually meant adding two more Dark One varieties. Currently there are only the Creeper and the Stalker mentioned under the FF heading Dark Ones. Yet mayhaps there is a Dark Whisperer (divine caster) and a Dark Weaver (arcane caster) that have yet to be detailed...
Hmm, quite interesting |
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2014 : 17:07:41
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Only problem is this: "Dark creepers, and the closely related governing subrace
known as dark stalkers, are chaotic neutral humanoids.
They live in small villages throughout the upper and
middle Underdark south of the Sea of Fallen Stars and east
of the Shining Sea." -DDGttUD
Any news on Philock? Did anything show up in VGttSC, SK or LE? |
« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2014 : 14:23:36
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*EH* - its the Realms. Anything can be found anywhere, really. Not that I am a fan of connecting them to the Netherese (Netheril/Shades were overused in 3e, IMO).
First thought - there is the halfling settlement of Greenest right abve - why connect them to gnomes? That works well if we were sticking with the Netherese element, but if we ditch that part Halflings would work better (Dark Creepers = 'Deep Hin').
Second thought - I never really much cared for the 'Dark' race(s), but I really love the idea of adding two more to the mix. What if there was one corresponding to each of the major surface races? (and also to each of the core classes). If you had four you could have one subrace each for humans, gnomes, halflings, and dwarves. Make the Mages the gnomes and the dwarves could be clerics (it might work better making them the fighters, but the Stalkers should be human... unless we give THEM some clerical abilities, in which case the Dwarves could be the dark variant.
I left out the Elves because we already have drow. I know we also already have 'deep gnomes' but they aren't evil, and we also have two types 'ebil dwwarf', but they aren't really 'dark' like I am picturing the subrace. The other alternative would be to use (half)orcs instead, and leave dwarves off for the same reason I left out the elves.
There is a lot of fun that could be had here, if someone ever decided to flesh-out their society. You can even go all 'Lovecraftian' and say one of the original Creator races took umbrage that the 'Young Races' were to take their place and experimented on them in the distant past (I'd blame the Batrachi myself, for how I'd spin things). In fact, if the Stalkers were human, you could possibly even connect them to the proto-Gith. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Dec 2014 14:26:08 |
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Philock
