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Faraer
Great Reader

3302 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2006 :  22:36:31  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Certainly, you have to write how you're comfortable with. But while really dense Realmsism (as I believe the pre-copyedit Spellfire had) could be opaque, an armsman here and a lackwit there are not; you want a balance, of course, of distinctive and familiar.

Sadly, no thorough Realms glossary exists, though at least a couple of us are working on it, and O Steven! those are physical files, aye?
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2006 :  22:42:47  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Could we possibly see what Ed has created in that regard ... terminology...*drool*

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2006 :  22:45:03  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The thing that gets me is when I see Realms terminology pop up elsewhere in D&D and fantasy literature in general. I'm pretty sure I never saw festhalls and sellswords before I started reading Forgotten Realms products.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1632 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2006 :  23:27:56  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

The thing that gets me is when I see Realms terminology pop up elsewhere in D&D and fantasy literature in general. I'm pretty sure I never saw festhalls and sellswords before I started reading Forgotten Realms products.





I'm still highly amused that we were in a meeting in 1997 with Roger Moore (of DRAGON magazine, not Bond films, fame) and the following was uttered by him: "What do you mean festhalls are houses of ill repute? I thought they were just nightclubs or bathouses and such!" Honestly, he'd worked with FR material since before the Grey Box and the replacement word of festhall slipped right by him, even in context.

When I asked what he thought my euphemism of "hard-currency girls" was, he assumed they were like the old cigarette sellers with change makers on their belts.

Ah, the fun of misdirection and euphemisms in the Realms! And it makes me miss Roger Moore all the more, too. (Haven't seen him in years, and I assume he's still hale and hearty...)

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4949 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2006 :  01:47:37  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox

Has that list ever been compiled properly, in an easily accessible, organized (into categories according to regions and topics and so forth) page, anywhere? By someone who can actually code HTML (or better yet, Java)?



I'm getting there. As far as I can see, there isn't a huge amount of regionality in the extant realmsian terms. Maybe 1 in 20 solely have a regional context. The majority are real-world equivalents (such as foodstuffs) which are easily transferable. You might not need to know anything more about a "yhaumarind" other than that it is edible and likely a fruit.

Would FR authors be looking to use such an FR glossary? I suppose it depends on the individual. I agree with RLB that they might not flow as smoothly off their pens as they do off Ed's (although even there, I had some difficulty with the "tluins" scattered throughout 'City of Splendor'). IMO, FR portmanteaus work best when the context is obvious (food, drink, illnesses, poisons, etc.), when they are easily recognisable (hiresword) or when the writer can sneak in an explanation of the term without disrupting the narrative. Obviously, the third option is the most difficult.

However, I do enjoy reading FR books that include terms unique to the Realms. Used judiciously, they enhance the narrative and feel of the book - at least from my point of view.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Faraer
Great Reader

3302 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2006 :  02:03:11  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In terms of pure comprehensibility, I think you're overestimating the difficulty -- more are easily recognizable than not, even out of context.

We should pool resources.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4949 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2006 :  03:01:05  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep, we'll do that Faraer. Never fear. Problem is, I've been a bit old-fashioned and been listing them freehand - not on a computer file. I'll get my act together soonish and we can see what we've each got.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe

895 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2006 :  06:48:09  Show Profile  Visit Winterfox's Homepage Send Winterfox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Faraer: well, given the fact that no such list exists, I don't think you should be surprised that authors haven't been using Ed's terminology, even if they wanted to. Chasing down bits and pieces in Kuje's archive of Ed's answers (sorry, Kuje, but that thing really could use a bit of tidiness) and asking random Candlekeep users if they've got any -- that's probably asking a bit much.

Edited by - Winterfox on 25 Aug 2006 06:52:06
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore

USA
1103 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2006 :  07:08:00  Show Profile  Visit GothicDan's Homepage  Send GothicDan an AOL message  Send GothicDan an ICQ Message  Click to see GothicDan's MSN Messenger address  Send GothicDan a Yahoo! Message Send GothicDan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
- that's probably asking a bit much.


Not for the authors who know about Candlekeep. ;)

Planescape Fanatic

"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD
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Paj
Seeker

United Kingdom
56 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2006 :  09:19:17  Show Profile  Visit Paj's Homepage  Click to see Paj's MSN Messenger address Send Paj a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, I was reading Lost Empires of Faerun and noticed how many little bits and pieces from older 2nd edition Lore were put in here and there and how many bits were updated for 3.5 edition(such as the Terraseer being made a Sarrukh) and it got me to wondering:

When you are asked to write a new novel/sourcebook/adventure module, how much research goes into what you are writing about before pen hits the paper? I mean, do you sit down beside a mound of older Forgotten Realms books (like the 2nd edition Netheril Boxed Set) and novels and go through them for bits and pieces of lore about what you are planning? Or is it more a face-to-face meeting with other Authors/designers with Pizza and pop :P ?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4949 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2006 :  11:10:58  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Having done lots of legwork on products written by Eric Boyd and others, I can say that every once in a while I'll get an e-mail saying I need you to find a list of "every dragon in the Forgotten Realms". Believe it or not, the doesn't always follow such a sentence! Also, I gave Thomas Reid a bunch of references to the Shining South before he wrote that product; the same refernces were given to Elaine as well for her Halruaa novel trilogy. When Eric wrote DDGttU, I scoured every extant product for references to the Underdark, drow, kuo-toa. mind flayers etc. etc. As to how Eric or other writers use such info, well they'll have to tell you themselves (Eric will no doubt be along here directly to do just that)

I have noticed that more and more fiction and gaming authors are becoming extremely diligent with their FR research. They know Candlekeep is watching, waiting to pounce! Of late I wouldn't fault any of the writers for their efforts.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 19 Oct 2006 11:17:33
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1776 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2006 :  16:49:18  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Paj: I'll try to answer your question from the perspective of a freelance writer who does FR fiction:
My research mainly consists of reading the pertinent sourcebooks. Unfortunately, sometimes you miss a relevant source. When you consider just how much FR material has been published over the years, you can appreciate that it's easy to do.
Unfortunately, face-to-face conferences are often impossible, since many of us freelancers don't live anywhere near WotC HQ in Washington. I sometimes ask the experts for help via email. Obviously, you don't want to be pestering people on a regular basis, so if I think I've absorbed the gist of something from the sourcebooks, I tend to leave it at that. It's possible that on occasion, this results in me missing something I would have preferred to know.
Writers sometimes run afoul of the fact that the FR and D&D themselves have changed over time. For example, older sources tells you that drow see in the infrared spectrum and they all have the natural ability to levitate. Those "facts" have been retconned and are no longer valid. Shifts like that can make it tricky for the writer to know what actually is correct. In my experience, they also frequently lead to the writer who conformed to the new version (as your editor tells you to) being castigated by readers who don't realize things have changed.
I think that pretty much everybody who works on the FR tries hard to get it right. Unfortunately, conttinuity errors are inevitable in any long-running series. You can find them in the Sherlock Holmes, James Bond, and Nero Wolfe stories, and those were all set in the real world and written by a single person. When the series is set in a wholly imaginary universe and you have scores of people working on it, inconsistencies become far more likely. So we writers just have to hope that when we slip, the readers can find it in their hearts to cut us some slack.
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LaughingWizard
Seeker

USA
29 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2006 :  20:20:59  Show Profile  Visit LaughingWizard's Homepage Send LaughingWizard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Continuity is certainly an important issue. I find that when I read, I pick up on those things and it hurts the "suspension of disbelief" so critical in the genre. I struggle in my own writing with plotting because of this. I have a definite timeline of events in time in my world and am always asking myself where I should begin a character's tale, chronologically. I can generally envision them at different ages, in different situations. Do you tell the reader how they got to be who they are, or do you go back, write the story and show the reader? Woe is me! I would prefer to do everything cronologically, but real world time constraints stop this. I find I don't like "prequel" novels, because I can't connect well with the characters after seeing them "later." Does anyone else have this hangpup?

A woman, or a man, may come to hold many treasures in life. Gold, gems, a good name, lovers, good friends, influence, high rank--all of these are of value. All of these most covet. But of them all the most valuable, I tell ye, are friends good and true. Have these, and ye will scarce notice the lack if ye never win aught else."

The adventuress Sharanralee, Ballads and Lore of One Dusty Road, Year of the Wandering Maiden
From Spellfire by Ed Greenwood
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1776 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2006 :  20:42:00  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Laughing: My rule (and I think many writers would agree) is to start with something interesting. Your first job is to motivate the reader to keep reading. Show him something exciting or intriguing and he'll stick with you, even if he doesn't fully understand the story situation. So create a strong hook and drop all that exposition in later, in little pieces, as it becomes particularly relevant. Because if you make everything crystal clear at the beginning but you fail to arouse the reader's interest, he'll quit on you.
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James P. Davis
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
244 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2006 :  07:14:45  Show Profile  Visit James P. Davis's Homepage Send James P. Davis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paj

Or is it more a face-to-face meeting with other Authors/designers with Pizza and pop :P ?


Man, I hope not. I've been missing out on the party!

Seriously though, for me it's very much like Richard described. If the sourcebooks get me comfortable in a particular place I'll run with it, if not I'll bug a designer or two with a question (thanks again George and Eric!). Besides, the research is all part of the fun. Once I get a story in mind, I love seeing how it changes and grows as I learn the details and the history...and the details. Did I mention the details?

Best,
--James

"Everybody is a book of blood; wherever we're opened, we're red."--Clive Barker

FR: RotD2:"Possessions"
Wizards:Bloodwalk
Citadels: The Shield of Weeping Ghosts
Wilds: The Restless Shore
Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep: Circle of Skulls (May 2010)
Book trailers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC-ska7ohVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfvFdQ8bLp0
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2006 :  18:09:52  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For my part, I do my best to keep things consistent and continuous, but I know there's only so much I can do. Richard's got the right of it: the first priority is to make the story readable with an interesting/engaging scenario. The facts of the setting you add as you write it.

I'm also a little liberal when it comes to certain elements of "continuity." For instance, if one character says XX about a character or situation, that isn't necessarily true or false -- it's more the character's opinion than a definitive narrative statement. It's different, of course, if the narrator says it, in which case it should be valid in a real sense. For this, research is both imperative and, I've found, fun.

Cheers


Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1776 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2006 :  14:21:38  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Happy Holidays to everyone who visits Candlekeep!
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1063 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2006 :  14:28:49  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Richard Lee Byers and Happy Holidays to you and you're family.

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571

Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047

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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5586 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2006 :  15:36:49  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage  Click to see Alaundo's MSN Messenger address Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers

Happy Holidays to everyone who visits Candlekeep!



Well met

Season's Greetings to ye also Richard, and to all authors herein. Many thanks on behalf of all here at Candlekeep for the presence and information ye continue to give us all.


Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct


An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
618 Posts

Posted - 25 Dec 2006 :  01:07:18  Show Profile  Visit Uzzy's Homepage Send Uzzy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Merry Christmas to you too, Richard, and to all the authors who come here!
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James P. Davis
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
244 Posts

Posted - 25 Dec 2006 :  08:19:28  Show Profile  Visit James P. Davis's Homepage Send James P. Davis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Merry Christmas to all and best wishes for 2007!

"Everybody is a book of blood; wherever we're opened, we're red."--Clive Barker

FR: RotD2:"Possessions"
Wizards:Bloodwalk
Citadels: The Shield of Weeping Ghosts
Wilds: The Restless Shore
Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep: Circle of Skulls (May 2010)
Book trailers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC-ska7ohVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfvFdQ8bLp0
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1632 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2006 :  02:11:11  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Missed the chances to wish ye all a Merry Yule or Christmas, but may you all have the best of new years to come!

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2006 :  08:25:15  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Happy new one to all of you!

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2006 :  06:26:32  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year!

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Gareth Yaztromo
Seeker

Australia
37 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2007 :  01:16:43  Show Profile  Visit Gareth Yaztromo's Homepage Send Gareth Yaztromo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is a technical question. I was wondering if any of the authors here or even fellow board members know the page dimensions and font size for a regular novel? And if anyone knows how to adjust Microsoft Word or OpenOffice so the page settings are such? Thanks. Oh on a side note do any of the authors here write their stories in Word's default page settings or do they adjust it like what I'm trying to do?

"Gereth Yaztromo is arguably the most famous wizard of Allansia due to his part in a number of the most well known sagas of that region from the third century AC. He is also known as one of the three Star Pupils of the Grand Wizard of Yore.."
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