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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 05:17:43
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Wow, that last one was teeming with adventure hooks! Good stuff, that.
And now, a question of mine own: THO, would it be possible for you to share some highlights of your own experiences at noble revels and parties in Waterdeep?
I understand my questions skirts awfully close to any number of NDA’s, what with Ed and Elaine’s novel due out soon, not to mention Eric Boyd’s Waterdeep Sourcebook.
Thusly I’ll accept a firm no, should such be judged necessary.
But if not, I’ll take whatever you proffer with great thanks and a sincere promise to use it for inspiration and ideas, as the in-game date for mine own group’s invitation to a Spring regalia at the Hawkwinter House draws near.
With many thanks,
J. Grenemyer
ps: And thanks to Wooly as well; though your ideas may flow from fingers perhaps a little less adept at caressing than THO's, your adventure hooks and player-attention-getting ideas are just as equally appreciated (and will be used). |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 11 Apr 2005 07:29:43 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 11:27:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
ps: And thanks to Wooly as well; though your ideas may flow from fingers perhaps a little less adept at caressing than THO's, your adventure hooks and player-attention-getting ideas are just as equally appreciated (and will be used).
Not a problem! I enjoy helping out.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe
Canada
161 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2005 : 15:27:44
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THO, is there anything you can tell us (yet) about the Knights trilogy? Has Ed let slip anything about the plot or chronology of the first book? Specific characters? Places? Chapter-length excerpts? (Such as, ahem, the sex scenes the WotC editors are going to edit out anyway?)  |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2005 : 00:07:29
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Hello, all. Herewith, Ed replies to Gerath Hoan re. matters Cormyrean:
Gerath, you’re quite welcome re. the Hammerstars series. I consider that eight-parter a paltry but essential offering of long-overdue Realmslore to fill the gaping ‘black hole’ that Sembia has remained for too long.
As for your Cormyrean questions: yes, I’d say you’re capturing the right flavour. “King’s Vale” is a good name (bear in mind that ‘Vale’ means “valley,” so you’ve got to create a local depression, probably small and bearing streams running down from the height where they ‘rise’ to join either the Sword or the Immerflow). “Silverspurs” is a quite acceptable noble family name, so long as they’re few in number and low in fame and influence (we already have Silver, Silverhorn, Silversword, Crownsilver, Huntsilver, and Truesilver - - so this had probably better be the very last “Silver” family among the nobility).
As I see the situation, most of the crofters (farmers) fled on the orders of army commanders as the foe advanced; only the most stubborn stayed to fight the orcs (and so died), though their buildings would have been looted and burned, their livestock slain and devoured, and crops and larders despoiled or eaten. So some of the farms would have been (thinly) resettled almost right away, with Purple Dragons sent out to patrol the area and work alongside the surviving (returned) crofters and a few poor street folk from Suzail offered Crown coin to work on farms (and, once it became clearer who was dead, even offered some farmland). So: few grand uniformed units of Purple Dragons riding here and there, and smaller garrisons - - but more Purple Dragons out working alongside commoners (building trust, just as the canny Obarskyrs want them to).
The Obarskyrs will have been calling on their coffers (the secret wealth of the Crystal Grot) to buy all manner of edibles, seed, and livestock, to make sure crops were sewn as soon as possible, and to keep folk from starving through the first (leanest) winter; mercenaries (closely watched over by War Wizards in turn watched or ‘covered’ by other, unseen War Wizards, to guard against treachery or plundering) would have been hired to bolster patrols and guardpost-garrisons, to fight off orc and goblin raiding bands, prowling monsters, brigands, and - - yes - - Zhent incursions.
Fzoul intends to keep his bargain with Khelben by not openly conquering anywhere, but also intends to continue ‘buying’ local rulers as the Zhents always did, and raiding as much as they always did, too (“Those raids? Those weren’t us; can’t have been - - I gave orders! Oh, a few low-ranking lads might have got ambitious, they always do . . . but if I discover that happened, rest assured I’ll stretch a few necks, believe me! What do you mean, you don’t believe me?”). So the Zhents will both raid and try to use crooked merchants as agents to take over local smithies and other businesses wherever they see a chance.
Purple Dragon units will escort all deliveries of these purchased imported necessities, which will come to ‘local lords’ for local distribution. Things in the backlands are a little “rough and ready” right now - - but the Crown is watchful, and ready to spring into action against outlaws, raiding outlanders, and adventurers who try to ‘run amok.’
So saith Ed. Who’s deep in taxes right now, but still on his feet with sword in hand, and no trace of fear on his face . . .
love to all,
THO
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Gerath Hoan
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2005 : 11:37:45
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Thank you so much Ed for your comments... Here's a few quick responses of my own.
I have indeed created a 'vale' for King's Vale, as it was based on historical maps of my own little westcountry village, which had a fantasically exaggerated hilly local terrian depicted on them. It has a good sized central vale carved out of the high ground to the north, the vale itself being vaguely ring shaped, with arms of high ground extending southwest and enfolding around most of the village, but left somewhat open to the low ground where the main road runs into the village. It also comes complete with the several small streams as you described (which i spent the bulk of my childhood falling into!  ) and several smaller bowl-shaped depressions in the hills to the north that were also used as areas of farming within the greater jurisdiction of the one settlement.
Here's the URL of the map in question:
http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/gallery/map/kingtonStM_map004.jpg
As for the Silverspur family... yes i know there's a lot of 'Silvers' amongst the nobility, which is perhaps why the name felt correctly Cormyrean to me... but i assure you that they don't have much influence anymore. I've got them reduced to 3 surviving family members (one Baron with his wife and, off adventuring somewhere in the Dales, his sister) who act more as the "country Knight on his manor" type of noble than the sophisticated Suzailian nobility you've brought to light in published Realms fiction so far. And given the long term plot-lines i've set up for my campaign, i expect the couple to remain childless and perhaps in the end the sister will be left to inherit what's left of the title and lands.
Thanks for the description of current situation of the local lands, i intend to flesh out the back-story of the village with some stubborn characters now dead thanks to the war, and i conveniently have a lot of free farmland to potentially assign to eccentric and suspect NPCs (as well as more harmless former city dwellers and ex-Purple Dragons) that even the locals will know little about.
And the ideas as to the Purple Dragons military disposition, current hostile threats, presence of mercenaries and a confirmation of continued Zhent raids will all find much use as plot hooks and fun encounters!
Thanks again Ed, it's a pleasure to be playing in this world you've created!
EDITED: for clarity and the weblink |
Knight of the Order of the Keen Eye - Granted by Ed Greenwood, 30th January 2005 |
Edited by - Gerath Hoan on 12 Apr 2005 11:58:47 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 02:13:58
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Hello, all. Ed replies to Dargoth’s question: “Whats the relationship like between Cormyr and the elven nations (Ie Evereska, Evermeet and the remaining elven settlements in the Dalelands) in the post Azouns IV death and the destruction of Tilverton era? both of them being events where elves did substantial damage to Cormyr/Particular does Alusair hold a grudge against the elves over her fathers death? Do the people of Cormyr in general have a negative view of Elves?”
(Wooly Rupert replied: “I wouldn't imagine so, for either case... Alusair is a smart lady, and it's not like this was an elven plot -- it was the actions of one former elf. And how many people know that the Devil Dragon was formerly an elf?”
Now Ed has his say:
Dargoth, Wooly Rupert is right: as the Steel Regent begins her rule, rest assured that no one in Cormyr, from Filfaeril and Alusair down to gossiping fishwives in Marsember, holds any hatred for elves over the events recounted in either the war against the Devil Dragon or the events recounted in The Return of the Archwizards trilogy. Elves just aren’t seen as a group or race of villains in Cormyr. Some individual Cormyreans may hold grudges or feel hatred towards individual elves, but that’s a far different thing.
Now, as far as relations between Cormyr and Evereska: Evereska doesn’t have much to do with any non-elven land. Most Cormyreans believe it’s a fallen land, or a myth, or a shining hidden paradise of the elves (and mostly don’t think about it at all). Evermeet ditto (though few still believe it’s entirely mythical). War Wizards, merchants, and certain courtiers carry on quite cordial relations with elves in the Dalelands, but again, the average Cormyrean never thinks of elven settlements in the Dalelands except as those “deep green woods where elves dance and fey things happen; best leave ’em be.”
So saith Ed. More Realmslore tomorrow!
Gerath: nice. I'll pass this on to Ed, weblink and all. I suspect he'll be pleased.
love to all,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 06:10:49
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A question that could potentially prompt the casting of a minor NDA spell... but I'm curious since the next stage of my Darkhold campaign will focus on this subject in particular.
Now, what is the current status (in 1373DR) of the Church of Cyric, both in and around the Darkhold area?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 08:24:19
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Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Yes and no. Or, to put that a little more clearly: yes, a deity hears whenever anyone addresses a namesake mortal by name (and, yes, both Selûne and Shar would hear when the lass named Seluneshar was named), but this babble goes on ALL the time (prayers, remember), for the vast majority of deities, in a ceaseless thunder. They learn to tune it out, or quickly go mad (Cyric, anyone?). So they’re aware of all these “callings” in the background, and will notice peaks, breaks, and changes in the frequency, tone, and amount of mortal utterances of their name - - but will only ‘zero in’ on a particular voice when they want to.
This answer (and the question) piqued my curiosity... Just how common is it for a mortal to be named after a deity? Are there some deity names that are never used for mortals (ie: I'd imagine you wouldn't find too many named for Bane or Loviatar)? |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 12:04:56
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Heya,
I know this is more than 10 pages old (at least on my computer), but I kind of just stumbled back across this site (lost my bookmarks when my computer went boom! *sob*) today and have been catching up on 2005.
So repeating the original EXPLICIT LANGUAGE AHEAD warning... And I'll add to that: One rather twisted question as well... Well twisted for some, not for me... 
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One, related by Ed
male homosexual ND = liyan (E: “LEE-awwn”), praed (derived from gnome slang)
effeminate male homosexual = dathna ND, simpering man-lover
bisexual man ND = tasmar
lecher M = winker
Casanova,
tireless woman-chaser = cod-loose winker
masochistic man = dusk
[note: refers to a male who enjoys self-bondage and/or being bound, being whipped or pierced or otherwise hurt]
cross-dresser (either gender) ND = saece (E: “SAY-sss”)
male or female who enjoys being forcibly enspelled (including shapechanging)
as part of sexual play = wild one, thaethiira (E: “thAY-th-EAR-ah”)
prostitute ND = coin-lass, coin-lad
[note: the above is roughly the equivalent of our phrase “neighbourhood professional;” I haven’t listed less polite euphemisms because there are literally dozens]
lesbian ND = thruss
dyke = battlebud
butch (manly woman) = harnor
submissive female M = rose
masochistic female M = dusk rose
[note: the above refers to a female who enjoys self-bondage and/or being bound, being whipped or pierced or otherwise hurt]
‘loose’ female = wanton, slut, sreea (E: “SREE-uh”)
bisexual female = shaeda (E: “SHAY-dah”)
Ah, one of my favorite pet topics. Sex, sexuality, and the Realms. I find your list interesting mostly for what is and isn't there.
There's no term for submissive male beyond "dathna" which isn't completely applicable, since not all submissive males are necessarily effeminate.
Also, being bound and being hurt are two completely separate things. One can enjoy bondage without the discipline, so to speak. Also one can enjoy pain without being submissive (dusk rose seems to imply a submissive woman who enjoys pain, rather than just a woman who enjoys pain - since the rose is appended to the dusk... if you see what I'm getting at?)  But I guess you could only put so many words in the list, which is probably why it seems odd to me!
Lastly, the magical shapechanging has me interested. I've been wondering about this myself recently (as plot device for a Realmsian fan fic I may or may not write into the story) - I'm sure some wizards and sorcerers take their magic into their kinks and use shape shifting for gender bending purposes (a more extreme form of transvestism, or the Realmsian version of inter/transexuality? Probably can stand in for both!)... Is it possible for a gender bending wizard/sorcerer/other being to be fertile? Which means to say if a female wizard polymorphed/shapechanged/cursed into a male (for simplicity's sake, of same species) and had sex with another lady, could she make her partner pregnant? And how about the reverse? A male changes into a female, and has sex with another man - would he become pregnant? And if possible what would happen if he tried to change back to his normal form while pregnant? I suppose this is more a rules mechanics thing and would be something each individual DM should rule on - but I'm curious how you'd handle it, Ed?
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
your wanton dusk rose and sometime shaeda,
Are or are not, there is no sometime. |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 14:38:59
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Hello, fellow scribes.
Krash, Ed replies to two of your DWARVES DEEP questions:
My Lady Hooded was of course quite correct when she said King Azoun IV’s alliance with the dwarves of Earthfast was trade-related. She gave you its normal flows (“textiles, leather, boots, foodstuffs, and tinctures, tisanes, and infusions that could be used in making dyes and medicines, in return for trade-bars of metal, valued at fair market prices”), but of course didn’t know that Azoun could call on this for armor and weaponry, usually in return for particular War Wizard spell castings on specific items. The primary trade route, by the way, was via portal from Suzail to a secret location in the Dales, and thence to the Low Road (see page 30 of my 2004 Questions thread here at Candlekeep) and south from there (and vice versa), with War Wizards magically overseeing Highknight-directed trade activities from afar (ready to leap in if treachery or ambushes from hostile third parties occurred - - something that, as it happened, never happened :} ).
Glowhammers are enspelled warhammers that, yes, can glow with faerie fire upon mental command of the wielder, and can also be willed to ‘send’ a beam of stronger light (like a pencil flashlight, aimed by moving the hammer; strong enough to see small features or writing by, but not blinding nor strong enough to affect undead). They can be released and left floating, as The Hooded One described.
The primary magical ability of a glowhammer is to reveal all hidden runes, symbols, scripts, marks, sigils, and writings (within ten feet, when willed to do so). The revealed markings remain visible until this hammer ability is ‘willed off’ or the hammer is moved out of range, and the glowhammer ability is so crafted as to NOT activate any magics contained in the markings it reveals (even by touch).
I’ve never given glowhammers formal 3e stats (and of course the formal 2nd Ed ones are owned by WotC; only they can choose to release them), but such details should be easy enough to work up with this lore in hand.
The DWARVES DEEP corrections are: substitute “Rimmator” for “Rimmato” on the foldout map, and at the bottom of the middle column of text on page 5, insert the word “alloy” between “extremely hard and durable” and “known as” . . . also right at the bottom of the same column, in the passage:
known as “adamantine,” and occasionally
please change the word “adamantine” to: adamantite.
So adamantite is the ore, adamant is the pure (and very hard but brittle) metal, and adamantine is the very hard, very durable alloy (sometimes shortened to “adamant” in daily usage, especially by non-dwarves).
Dareth next time, okay? Taxes wound and press me hard . . .
As for “all about dwarves in the Realms,” ha! I should live so long! Et cetera . . .
So saith Ed. As for his taxes comment: wince. By “next time,” he almost certainly means tomorrow.
love to all,
THO
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 17:39:44
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Ed,
Slime Lord over on the WOTC boards asked me this earlier this morning:
"Do you know how Ed organizes the material he has on the Realms?"
I answered, "No, but I know he has notes or he makes it up on the spot. Give me a question that you want answered and I'll deliver it to him."
So here's Slime Lords question: "How did you (Ed) manage to keep track of everything when you where and are creating Toril and all that goes with it?"
I assume Slime Lord is looking for specifics like, do you organize churches and church matters by deity? Cities by wards or quarters, etc? Nations by what part of the world they are in. Stuff like that...... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 03:23:54
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Hello, all. Ed of the Greenwood replies to Krash the Lorelord in the matter of Dareth:
Hi, George! Sorry for the delay in getting to this. Here we go:
After its initial founding, Dareth attracted dwarves who fled from eastern Delzoun, after being cut off from the rest of Delzoun by the “fall of Felbarr.”
This fall was not a conquest, but rather a decade-long plague (known among the Stout Folk of the day as “the Slaying Slumber” or “the Slaying Sickness”) in which stricken dwarves became drowsy, fell into nightmare-tormented sleeps that lasted longer and longer, until they awakened only briefly, raving and dangerous to all - - and in the end slipped into a deep final sleep in which they died, wasting away in comatose slumber from which nothing (even the pain of dismemberment!) could awaken them.
The Slaying Slumber passed away as suddenly as it had come, never to return, and a few dwarves recovered from it (some after being kept alive magically as they slept). Most dwarves believe that their various races became immune to whatever caused this affliction, but a few firmly hold the belief that the sickness was begun by a sinister spell sent by a foe of the dwarves, or perhaps duergar or others within the dwarves who sought to exterminate other dwarves, and that it ended when the spell faded, or its unknown caster ended the magic or was slain.
The dwarves never talk of the Slumber to non-dwarves, and say little of it among themselves, considering it a weakness some foe could use against them if knowledge of it became widespread - - so many younger dwarves have never heard of it. Most of its victims were burned, and it struck first and hardest in Citadel Felbarr, until some dwarves of Delzoun put a ‘shieldwall’ around the Citadel and “by the axe” prevented dwarves of Felbarr from venturing forth.
A few broke out of Felbarr and headed east, to easternmost Delzoun (where it was commonly known in the Northkingdom that there was abundant food, water, and unclaimed natural caverns to dwell in). This in turn caused some panicked dwarves already dwelling in that region to flee far to the east “to get away from the Death,” and they fled far, stopping and settling only when they reached the already-existing realm of Dareth, where they were welcomed.
Although the Slumber made dwarves of Delzoun mistrustful and wary for years, and hampered trade, it actually slew only a few thousand dwarves, and life in the Northkingdom slowly returned to normal. In Felbarr and elsewhere, many dwarves never fell ill even as those around them slept or raved, and no place in Delzoun was abandoned, or taken by foes of the dwarves, because of the Slumber.
So saith Ed. Ooooh, essential Realmslore indeed! And there’s more coming tomorrow!
Yessssss!
love to all,
THO
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 06:40:02
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Essential realmslore indeed, THO! Thank you, Ed - far different (but wonderfully so) reasoning than I had expected. Now to tie it into Dareth ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 01:23:43
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Well met again, fellow scribes. Ed deals with the last (well, actually it was posed first, but such is the Wandering Way of Ed) DWARVES DEEP question from George Krashos:
The dwarven language section of FR11 was kept short, because even back then there was an attitude of “Runes are okay for dungeon inscriptions, but THIS is fluff! Keep it short, and give us more new monsters and magic instead!” You’ve no doubt noticed that I tended to stick to “adventuring-situation” words. However, I quite agree that a LOT is missing.
Quite honestly, I don’t have the time to work up a proper “tongue” right now, and probably won’t for a long time to come, but I can certainly expand the working Dwarvish vocabulary by listing some of the ‘missing words’ you mention, as follows:
adamantine: ohloro (usually shortened to “hloro” in everyday speech)
adamantite: oro
armor (plate or piece): harth
chain (linked end to end in rope-like form, not armor): burr
chainmail shirt: hauburr
cold: thorord (“THOR-ord”)
dragon: aug
giant (the creatures): raullen (“RAWL-un”) (literally “tall-walker”) (plural: raraullen)
gleam (reflected light, also a reflected image): spaerend (“SPAYUR-end”)
goblin: usarr (plural: sarr)
hammer: dorth
helm: tholdokh (“thole-DOCK”)
hoard (usually of a dragon, but can be any monster-guarded treasure): augdauh (“og-DAW”)
hobgoblin: usark (plural: sark)
journey (‘walk’): ullen (“ULL-en”)
kobold: ubol (plural: boldrin)
leathers (underlayer for armor, or forge-aprons and other protection): surk (plural: surrthen)
light (true, steady light, such as sunlight, moonlight, and phosphorescence): hara
light hammer (the weapon): hardorth (“HAR-dorth”)
light hammer (a finework tool, smaller than a hardorth): trast
mithral: himral (“HIMM-rall”)
pick (the tool or weapon, not the act of selection): isson (“ISS-awn”) (literally “pierce-stone”)
pierce: iss
priest: thaebrast (“THAY-brast”) (plural: thaebrar)
shield (the item): harbarak (“HAR-bay-ur-ak”) (often shortened to “barak” in daily use)
silver: thordspaer (literally “cold-gleam”)
stone: onn (“AW-nnn”)
tall (high): rau (“RAWW”)
war: aragh (“AR-ag”)
war hammer: aragh dorth
winter: arauthorord (“ar-AW-thor-ord”) (literally “great-cold”)
So saith Ed. Ah, the essential Realmslore just keeps coming and coming. 
love to all,
THO
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 01:31:57
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'Tis good.
That reminds me that over on the wizards.com boards people are pondering the elven language... not exactly for the first time, but a couple of them actually have some linguistic expertise. They can't really do much concrete work until the existing fragments have been assembled -- I already referred them to Steven's Cormanthyr notes.
I'll see if I can round up some queries to pass on to you, Ed, but here's one: Given that the elf and drow tongues seem to share little or no vocabulary, what's their relationship? |
Edited by - Faraer on 16 Apr 2005 01:32:32 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 02:57:41
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A big 'thanks' once again Ed for the dwarven words. Hammer of Moradin will be weeping in his beard out of gratitude! Now, to look at some dwarven weapons ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 03:46:52
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| Thank you, thank you Ed for those extra Dwarven words! They warm the cockles of a poor linguist's heart! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Si
Acolyte
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 10:36:51
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Well met all
a couple of questions vaguely related to Ed's recent Noble Pastimes and Waterdeep property answers;
How closely related do you have to be to the rulers of a Waterdeep Noble family to receive the full Noble privileges(stipend, status etc)? Obviously this will vary from family to family, but there must be quite a few of the Noble families who have hordes of 'country cousins' who have to make their own way in the world.
Secondly, if my characters wanted to buy something like one of your 'tallhouses' you describe in Waterdeep in a reasonably nice area, how much coin are we talking about, on average?
Many Thanks
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'Only the little people suffer at the hands of Justice; The creatures of power slide out from under with a wink and a grin.'
Quellcrist Falconer
Things I Should Have Learnt by Now |
Edited by - Si on 16 Apr 2005 10:47:05 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 17:34:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Si
Secondly, if my characters wanted to buy something like one of your 'tallhouses' you describe in Waterdeep in a reasonably nice area, how much coin are we talking about, on average?
Many Thanks
Steven wrote this up many years ago, it might help:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/ss-buildings.htm |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 01:39:03
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Hello again, fellow scribes. Ed comments on the recent laws promoted in Cormyr:
Dargoth, Cormyr will be attracting folk from Westgate and all over urban Sembia who long for the relative law-abiding security but can’t afford space of their own where they dwell now, caravan traders from all over Faerûn who’ve visited Cormyr while trading and liked the place and wanted to settle down there when the rigors of the road become too much for them . . . and so on . . .
However, please bear in mind that although YOU see the ‘double standard’ of one rule for now-dead Azoun IV and another for commoners and deem it ‘cheek,’ folk in Cormyr probably don’t (except for the nobility); they EXPECT royalty to have different rules and benefits than commoners do. (It ain’t injustice until someone convinces you it is.)
Beowulf, your dislike of Cormyr is just fine with me; the realm seems to attract strong love or strong dislike from fans of the Realms. It’s important to remember (and your comment about hypocrisy and your sarcasm about Cormyr being ‘the good kingdom’ underscore this) that passing laws and enforcing them energetically is a two-edged sword: whatever ‘goodness’ one attempts to promote through rules can easily be lost or subverted - - even without any intent to do so - - by the rules being twisted or poorly drafted (or thought out), or just piled on too enthusiastically.
It should also be noted that all rulers make mistakes, that regents are watched more closely than most monarchs for weaknesses and mistakes, and that Alusair is at least less stiff-necked than most: she WILL backtrack and reverse a wrong decision. So this law may not stand forever, or even for long.
So saith Ed. Who is well aware of other outstanding Cormyr lore requests from these two scribes, and will get to them very soon.
Or (heh-heh) he’ll answer to ME.
love to all,
THO
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 22:58:18
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Hey Ed,
When you said this back on Dec 11th, to Sheemy, "I hopes this makes things clearer. I neither wanted Planescape to be a different product line nor did I want two different cosmologies to develop, but we’re stuck with them. If you’d like me to follow Planescape, then I need the Planescape materials republished with Nine Hells-specific details changed to match all of the already-published Realms work, because consistency MUST trump all. As it was, I danced around a lot in plotting and writing ELMINSTER IN HELL so as to contradict differences as little as possible, yet you obviously still weren’t happy with the result. Well, so be it, I’m afraid - - but if you’d like to e-chat about this some more, I’m perfectly happy to do so."
Were you also including the 3/3.5e version of FR's cosmology in the part where you said, "I never wanted two different cosmologies to develop, but we're stuck with them."
I ask because there is one game designer, who is no longer with WOTC, who has fans who continue to claim that you said you gave your okay with the changes to planes that appeared in the FRCS and then later expanded in the Players Guide. I know you don't have much say in what WOTC does but your reply to Shemmy made me curious because the planar changes cause all kinds of inconsistencies in FR's lore. It's also, after four years, one of the most heated arguements on the boards. :)
Also was there ever a set of planes that you had created that didn't include the Great Wheel? So what I'm asking here is: Were you forced to abandon the planes that your originally had and instead use the Great Wheel. I realize also that TSR did force all the campaign settings to use the Great Wheel. Also I'm curious if the 3/3.5e's version of the planes are closer to your original concept of the FR planes....
I realize some of this is sensitive and you might not be able to answer any of this. :) |
Edited by - Kuje on 18 Apr 2005 16:49:03 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 01:29:20
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Hello, all. Hmm, I see a storm brewing. Swords, down, lads, and hearken to Ed Greenwood, as he replies to David Lázaro with his top five tips to DMs:
1. Give your players what they want. NOT “give in to them,” but work hard to find out what settings (city, wilderness, dungeon, arctic, naval, underwater) and styles (intrigue, hack-and-slash, chase or hunt, etc.) of adventure your players prefer, and make sure you give them the entertainment they crave.Otherwise, why are you wasting your time doing this?
2. Everybody loves a mystery. Work three sorts of mysteries into your campaign play: little things tied to the PCs’ pasts (e.g. The Six-Fingered Man from THE PRINCESS BRIDE), mysteries unfolding under PC noses (who’s the villain who keeps plundering treasures before they do, who escapes back into - - gulp - - the Palace? and/or: who’s the mysterious mage who’s threatening to steal the Princess away before her wedding night, who keeps leaving messages that are driving the King mad with rage and worry?), and “little motif” mysteries that you can build into something greater, later (e.g. the same little bird that always flies past the PCs’ noses after they find a treasure, or the same commoner who’s always watching in the crowd during their race and chase scenes). It doesn’t matter if you don’t know what this motif means; as the campaign unfolds, you’ll find a clever explanation for it that will make your players think you’ve been planning this for years!
3. Like a favorite series of novels or television show, build up a colourful cast of NPCs that the PCS, love, like, hate, or just know (as gossips in the tavern, as shopkeepers who know where to get this item or that, and so on). Keep track of the lives, ambitions, and interests of these NPCs to make the setting seem rich and real, and to give the PCs sources they can ‘check in with’ or ‘call on’ if they’re bored, or need information.
4. Intrigue and power groups. Remember, manipulating others is something all humans do, and dreaming and scheming is something most of us love to do. Most power groups won’t be Fell Wizards with a Diabolical Plan, but a few fat merchants meeting in a back room to get girls behind their wives’ backs, or work a little swindle, or something of the sort. Surround the PCs with dozens of these little mysteries, until they think they can uncover something really big - - and then the players will start their own adventures, and you as DM can sit back, ‘ride the fun,’ and embroider new side-adventures accordingly. Remember: the PCs are heroes who SHOULD take charge, not just reacting to the world by following the scripts of adventure after adventure you slap down in front of them.
5. Play sessions are ENTERTAINMENT - - or should be. Watch your players, change things if they get frustrated or bored, keep the pacing moving, forget the rules (except when to do so will start fights/anger players), and concentrate on acting and describing and making things seem alive. Watch a caper movie (for example, the recent remake of OCEAN’S ELEVEN) and notice how (without quite the frenetic jump-cutting pace of a rock video) things keep swiftly and smoothly moving along. By all means plan breaks (gossip and pee-break and chips-devouring time) in play sessions, but otherwise build things to cliffhangers, raise the volume and pace when fights are going on, and generally KEEP YOUR PLAYERS MORE INTERESTED THAN AN ACTION MOVIE DOES. They’ll remember your play sessions fondly.
And now, Ed’s top five Realms DMing tips:
1. The Realms is common people living their everyday lives (where does the food and water come from? where does the chamberpot empty to? how does yonder man feed his family?), not Elminster and the Seven whizzing here, there, and everywhere. Keep the big guns in the background (except for brief appearances to remind players that their characters aren’t the only heroes swaggering through a landscape of cringing targets) until your PCs are of power level enough for them to be useful. Yet mention them continuously (see #2, below), so that when that time comes, it won’t SEEM like you’re just “tossing them into play now.” This goes for magic as well as NPCs: just because the printed Realms has a lot of magic DOESN’T mean every last farm and woodlot is humming with it. Only the really interesting ones, that have ladies like Storm strolling around in the herb gardens. :}
Follow the Money. PCs’ “day jobs” (and they WILL have day jobs, sometimes, won’t they?) and all the ‘ready money’ that can be stolen, fought over, or hidden away as treasure follows the flow of goods (port shipping or caravan merchant trade). Know those flows!
2. And Now The News. Keep the gossip, wild rumor, and legitimate news flowing, with every talkative merchant and passing caravan. Make the Realms seem REAL AND ALIVE, and remind players that their characters aren’t the only ones doing anything exciting. In taverns and marketplaces, toss local opinions about this king and that power group at them - - and don’t forget to let them hear how gossip distorts their public doings, too, to warn them not to trust everything they hear.
3. Keep accurate track of calendar time. Which really means: note down your prime-mover villains and opponents of the PCs, and what these dastards are up to, day by day, so events will ‘move along’ when PCs are resting, recuperating, or lost in some dungeon somewhere. Remember to introduce new villains before the PCs have slaughtered the old ones (keep a constant supply coming), and that PC hideouts, strongholds, and loved ones left behind are fair game for PC foes, not ‘off limits.’ Have bands of adventurers attack the PCs while they’re sleeping in their homes - - just to establish a reputation or rob these “filthy rich, successful adventurers.” Make the PCs aware of the dangers of making too many enemies: they might get attacked by two or three groups at once, or foes may team up against the PCs, or tax collectors or creditors might seize PC property HERE while the PCs are busy fighting for their lives over THERE.
Yes, doing this DOES mean keeping notes. Don’t go wild, but do record which characters went along, important items gained, deaths, and initial meetings with NPCs. If you have to make up a character or place description ‘on the fly,’ note it down. Or your players will catch your inconsistencies, sooner or later!
4. Humour. Not nasty pranks, but ‘human nature’ moments and pratfalls. Don’t forget to include them in play sessions - - and give the PCs chances to do funny things, so their players get the full release of laughter. Reward your players for spending the time around your gaming table, remember, and a good laugh and great memories of it last a lot longer than this many gold pieces or that many experience points. Nobody loves grim doom and hard battle, with the fate of the free world riding on their bloody swordblade, all the time - - that’s WAY too much like real life.
5. Act, act, act: put on funny voices for certain NPCs, get up and wring your hands if you’re playing a nervous innkeeper, sashay with hand on hip if you’re playing the local lowcoin lass, stride manfully and snap grim orders if you’re a Watch commander. Bring those NPCs to life. Make your players want to go out and meet the local loonies. Foster friendships and love affairs and cranky old eccentrics, so PCs will WANT to go and consult old Floppyboots the beggar (a retired wizard gone mad), or the sisters Lhindra and Shalara, who peddle scents (and drugs, and poisons), and their own fading charms (“We have whips, goodsir, if your interests lie that way”), or helpful priestess Thardra, a firm-voiced bitch who’s full of sound, straight-truth advice (the DM, handing players “the way out” when they’ve really screwed up). The Realms is PEOPLE. Make your players want to have their characters marry some, bed others, slay and rob others, impress a few, and humiliate a lot more.
So saith Ed. And there you have it: an entire GenCon seminar, for free! Enjoy!
love to all,
THO
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Antareana
Seeker
Germany
59 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 01:52:16
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Wow, thanks for that great Lore of the Lord of Songs, Ed
you really know how to inspire new stories in us
and... "some old notes on Milil"? Better let my little mind not imagine what paper mountains of Realmslore are growing at Ed's... what treasure |
It is all just a past and future secret
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 01:54:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
1. The Realms is common people living their everyday lives (where does the food and water come from? where does the chamberpot empty to?
I have been trying to figure this out for years. The system does not support the answers even with 3.x that expanded from the 0 level/normal man concepts of prior editions.
How much is a chamber maid paid to empty the pot, how much does she have to pay for shelter and food? In some ways there are answers in various versions, it just gets muddier in current version.
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 02:14:22
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Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
'Tis good.
That reminds me that over on the wizards.com boards people are pondering the elven language... not exactly for the first time, but a couple of them actually have some linguistic expertise. They can't really do much concrete work until the existing fragments have been assembled -- I already referred them to Steven's Cormanthyr notes.
Of course, one thing people always seem to forget about other languages is that the grammar would be different. It's not just about replacing English words with babble. (So when I was under taking the task of inventing a language for my own homebrewed game, I made sure that the language had it's own gramatical structure.)
quote:
I'll see if I can round up some queries to pass on to you, Ed, but here's one: Given that the elf and drow tongues seem to share little or no vocabulary, what's their relationship?
You know it's totally possible that this has occured due to certian writers taking poetic licence to invent the drow tongue. They didn't really do it completely, since there's no recorded gramatical structure to the language, and the majority of the work at compiling a "dictionary" appears to have been done by fans: House Maerdyn Translator, House Maerdyn Dictionary. As you can see from the first site, there's no grammar work for the drow language - the quotes are word for word English gibberish. (Which isn't really to denigrate the work they have done, but it certianly is not complete.)
I know of only one attempt to actually "complete" the language with it's own gramatical structure (based on the existing words): Jashan's Non-Fantasy Introduction to Drow. Of course, she's not Ed, nor is she someone working for WotC, so her work fits definitely in the unofficial camp (just as House Maerdyn's probably does too). (As an aside, Jashan is quite a talented writer, and I'd recommend her works to the 18+ audience (adult themes, violence, female/female relationships) - some are based on the Black Isle/Bioware Baldur's Gate computer games... She's not a "Realms" fan per se, she came to the language via the computer game and as a result, don't expect much accuracy with regards to Realms lore in her stories. She's kind of taken what was in the games, and smished it into a world of her own invention.)
Anyway, the actual point I'm trying to make is that because the two languages (elven and drow) appear to have been developed mostly in isolation to one another, one can see that they would bear little resemblance to each other. Both sides (of people doing work on the languages) seem to have overlooked the fact that they're related. (No, I'm not critisizing Ed Greenwood and R A Salvatore, or other writers and fans working on the languages, I'm just making an observation.)
However, in the "real" Realms it would be impossible to separate the roots of the two languages - since drow were originally of the same people. Time and distance has separated them so the similarities might only be minimal, and it's possible that you'd only see ancient word roots in old words. Languages are forever evolving and changing, and I'd imagine that the tongues of other underdark races would have had some influence over the development of the drow language. Of course, there's always the possibility that the drow are overly worried about the purity of their language, and at times in their history there may have been drow that resisted the inclusion of foriegn words in their language. On the other hand, the drow might be language thieves, just as we English speakers are. Words that are commonly used eventually get included in the language, modified if needed to fit.
IMHO, Drow and Elven should be a little like Italian and French as far as differences go. They share similar origins, but today they're totally separate languages. Of course, I could be wrong.
Another aside: It seems that the drow language is hugely popular. To the point where many Dark Elf (Teir'dal) players/fans in EverQuest (both incarnations), seem to think that the language is appropriate for their race. I keep trying to tell people that because the races are completely different in their origins and psychology as well as physical world, that they wouldn't speak drow. I never get listened to, though.  (I don't go as far as to tell them they mustn't use it, I just won't respond in character to them and none of my teir'dal characters will use it.)
Edited - dealing with generalizations I didn't mean to make. :) |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
Edited by - Zandilar on 18 Apr 2005 02:32:40 |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 10:16:20
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Well met
Aye, a storm brewing indeed  Let us all please try to keep this a friendly place for our appreciated guests and discuss Realmslore in a pleasant manner.
I'll say no more on the matter! Now, where did I put that scroll for warding against trolls?
Thank ye
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Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 14:31:59
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::The Sage, realising with some degree of shock that he was now holding the scroll in question, glanced quickly over as the grumbling form of Alaundo approached. Seeing the Master Sage's eyes narrow in suspect, the Sage shrugged his shoulders and proclaimed, "It wasn't my fault. The Rupert made me do it."::
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 17:29:55
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
::The Sage, realising with some degree of shock that he was now holding the scroll in question, glanced quickly over as the grumbling form of Alaundo approached. Seeing the Master Sage's eyes narrow in suspect, the Sage shrugged his shoulders and proclaimed, "It wasn't my fault. The Rupert made me do it."::
Now you see the value of always hiding from Big Al! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 21:09:44
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Yes, it's the grammar that the people on wizards.com (including our own Gray Richardson) are concerned with.
I didn't know there were enough attested drow phrases to come to Jashan's conclusion about 'English with funny words'. Thing is, also, we don't know the drow language is related to the elves': it might be a gift from Lolth, for instance.
There's also the fact that we know there's a range of different elven languages, which is both a pain when trying to construct one and a help in dealing with inconsistent data.
Zandilar, perhaps you can spin off a thread about what this great drow-popularity is about, if you can shed any light on it. |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2005)
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